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You can just tell me what you mean, why you feel what you feel and why you want what you want. Plainly. I'll listen.

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It's the concept of women needing to be "protected" that bothers me...which is a totally subjective viewpoint, I readily admit.

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it would be best if you just got it over with.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I've noticed lately around the board that insults directed towards women tend to be remembered more than insults at or exchanged between men. There are more judgements placed on men that insult women then on the other scenarios.

I'm wondering why this is.

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All I was waiting for was for someone to ask.

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Yes, the concept of women ESPECIALLY needing protection bothers me some

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Would you open the door for a guy coming out of a building you are going into?

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Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
But I confess I have a radius of sensitivity for holding open a door that is wider for women than men.

By which I mean, within how many paces of the door must a person be before I hold it open?

If a male, it is generally two or three paces. Letting a door close in anyone's face is rude.

With a female, or for the elderly, I will stand and wait for a detected individual who is several paces away. My wife sometimes laments how long I will dwell in a doorway to perform this service.

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"Would you go through a door held open by a woman?" Because I've had guys refuse to go through doors I hold, or go before me into some place, and it's really, really irritating. (Like, I'm pissed off right now remembering this stuff.) I've also had guys rush up to get to a door before me so they could hold it open, which is less irritating and more silly.

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Originally posted by YINYANG:

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Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
But I confess I have a radius of sensitivity for holding open a door that is wider for women than men.

By which I mean, within how many paces of the door must a person be before I hold it open?

If a male, it is generally two or three paces. Letting a door close in anyone's face is rude.

With a female, or for the elderly, I will stand and wait for a detected individual who is several paces away. My wife sometimes laments how long I will dwell in a doorway to perform this service.

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Butting in only because I have some (probably irrational) strong feelings re: guys and holding open doors. (I mean, the fact that my feelings are so strong is what's irrational, not the feelings themselves.)

First off, I find it really uncomfortable when someone holds the door open for me and I'm not close to the door. It makes me feel awkward and pressured to hurry up and go through the door.

Second, I think the true test of chivalry is not "Would you hold open a door for a man?" but "Would you go through a door held open by a woman?" Because I've had guys refuse to go through doors I hold, or go before me into some place, and it's really, really irritating. (Like, I'm pissed off right now remembering this stuff.) I've also had guys rush up to get to a door before me so they could hold it open, which is less irritating and more silly.

Anyway, I don't know what my thing with doors is, but there you go.

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Hello,

I suppose this enhances the prospects for success.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I'm looking for someone who will tell me "yes, go die already, enough of you whining up the place, do something worthwhile with your otherwise pointless life."

Stop with all your pity. Enough. Seriously. You know that I'm unpleasant. I know that I'm unpleasant. We gain nothing by pretending otherwise. And certainly this does me no good.

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Originally posted by Niki2:

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I find it really uncomfortable when someone holds the door open for me and I'm not close to the door. It makes me feel awkward and pressured to hurry up and go through the door.

Second, I think the true test of chivalry is not "Would you hold open a door for a man?" but "Would you go through a door held open by a woman?"

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Excellent, Ying. The strength of your feelings might be irrational, but the feelings themselves aren't, or else I'm irrational too. I feel exactly the same about the first, and the second is a good test of "equality" too.

On the other hand, I find

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I've also had guys rush up to get to a door before me so they could hold it open

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JUST as irritating and uncomfortable.

Essentially, I hold doors open for anyone coming the other direction if I'm closer to the door than they are, I hold doors open for people on my side carrying things, disabled, elderly, pregnant, etc. And sometimes I just hold doors open for someone behind me for the heck of it. I appreciate it when someone of any sex holds a door open for me and thank them, even tho' the situations mentioned above irritate me and I wish they wouldn't do them. Were that it was somewhat thus for everyone. But in the end it's not important, just an indication that equality has not yet been reached (like we needed to know that!)

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Just keep ingorning me Niki, even when i work in your interests and/or just make sense....

It may take 20 years, or an entire change in the way our country is run, but in the end, you'll be on the wrong side....

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I've noticed lately around the board that insults directed towards women tend to be remembered more than insults at or exchanged between men. There are more judgements placed on men that insult women then on the other scenarios.

I'm wondering why this is.

That's not to say the things said to women aren't offensive, especially when they're politically motivated, and also some of the graphic and obscene anatomical references. But, say, when kaneman was around, I'm sure I saw just as many graphic and obscene anatomical references, and were additionally offensive because they contained sexual solicitation and references to brutality and rape.

So I know I've seen some equally offensive stuff leveled at the guys here. But not as big a deal is ever made. Why is it that women need to be protected more from insults and offensive material than men? Why is it so much worse when a woman is insulted?

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Men, in this culture (and pretty much every other culture on the planet at the moment), from the cradle onward, are taught to be profoundly uncomfortable with crying. Maybe it seems a little thing, but that little thing has far-reaching implications. "Big boys don't cry" is a little like being told that men don't pee. It means a lot of stuff that needs to get expelled just doesn't. Toxins build up, systems break down. Even without being told the hundred different lies about boys and crying that every boy hears, we learn it from how our fathers' bodies behave in the presence of tears--their own (even if a boy never sees his father's tears, he learns to sense their proximity and learns the methods his father has of suppressing them--I didn't see my father cry, sober, until I was 25), their sons', their wives', anyone's tears--it's something to see. When an entire gender is forbidden to cry without losing something of their identity--as male, as men--really effed up things start happening.

(I don't mean to reduce mens' effeduppedness to a single issue, but it illustrates my point.)

One thing's for sure, they can certainly get to hating the "designated criers" in the world, a.k.a., the females.

Men swim in a sea of one-upmanship and insult, in part, intended to further numb and toughen them against emotion. It's all part of membership in the club. To complain or even call attention to how it feels likewise loses them "masculinity points." What it comes down to is the systematic destruction of their inner-lives.

And then the internet was invented and all of a sudden, men had an outlet, a wholly anonymous pressure valve for all their pent up frustration and ambivalence and their homoerotic hysteria and jealous rage at women and their feelings. Just think how emotional these men are on the internet. Do you imagine they're one tenth as expressive in their real lives?

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