This place... by Niki2

I find election cycles really contribute to the downward spiral and it becomes much more 'us vs them'.

Also, not being American, I find the fact that just about every post is about forthcoming election, very boring. I quite like keeping myself informed, but have a limit to that interest.

However, I have little to contribute regarding other possible topics, so I shouldn't complain.

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Friday, October 5, 2012 1:08 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Oh wow. Bickering about who bickers most. Blaming about who blames most. Only on RWED.

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Friday, October 5, 2012 1:30 PM

HKCAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Only on RWED.

You need to get out more!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, October 5, 2012 1:49 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Both sides do it about the same, with slightly different numbers vs. frequency of posts. The people most notorious for taking something non political and twisting it into political stuff are Raptor and Quicko, they both do it equally from my vantage point.

Frem a chara, that sounds really frustrating, medical stuff is such a hastle, why don't things ever go smooth? I hope it gets sorted out quicker than usual and you get a piece that really works well and does what you need it to do. And what's up in PA? I'm not around much right now so I missed it.

Wulf, how is little Inara doing? :))))))))))

Byte you're the funniest person here by leaps and bounds, have fun with your fall activities! I'm going to the corn maze tomorrow!

Peacekeeper, you're totally right, all this America-centricness gets really boring. I'd be much interested in what's going on elsewhere, it would be much more exciting than presidential stuff all the time, this is a world wide board after all and I'd like to see that reflected here!

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Saturday, October 6, 2012 6:42 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Now the meanness is only between those who are mean to each other all the time, so no one really gets hurt. In that way, it's better.

That hadn't occurred to me. Valid point, but as you say, doesn't make it any less boring.

Quote:
Oh wow. Bickering about who bickers most. Blaming about who blames most. Only on RWED

Yeah, I was thinking that when I left last night, kinda mentally sighing and thinking "same old, same old, even in a thread about that very thing".

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Saturday, October 6, 2012 8:05 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
but really?

You need me to hate.

No. We don't.

I think this board does lack serious conservatives, and I sometimes wonder if they're driven away by the very hostile liberal sniping. Kaneman was probably the most abusive poster we've had but since him it's been Mike and Story who've been the most aggressive, and nasty. I side with them on the issues (most of the time at least) and I debate pretty hard myself, but I don't buy the idea that the people we're arguing against are despicable bastards. Even Wulf who is one of the most insufferable people I've ever known and who definitely has issues, is not I don't think, a completely terrible person.

I guess my sig. says it all.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Saturday, October 6, 2012 12:43 PM

I notice a lack of serious debate from conservatives, which is a shame. The conservatives who come here are not really representative of the larger debate, and are not great at discussing issues in complex way. I think that partially explains some of the meanness that can happen.

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Saturday, October 6, 2012 12:46 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I notice a lack of serious debate from conservatives, which is a shame. The conservatives who come here are not really representative of the larger debate, and are not great at discussing issues in complex way. I think that partially explains some of the meanness that can happen.

Maybe they don't like being accused of racism, homophobia, xenophobia, hating women, or elitism for merely voicing their opinions ?

Ever think of that ?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, October 6, 2012 1:19 PM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I notice a lack of serious debate from conservatives, which is a shame. The conservatives who come here are not really representative of the larger debate, and are not great at discussing issues in complex way. I think that partially explains some of the meanness that can happen.

Maybe they don't like being accused of racism, homophobia, xenophobia, hating women, or elitism for merely voicing their opinions ?

Ever think of that ?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

And every time they resort to those things they automatically lose. Like when the DNC Spokesman said this week that if Romney is speaking he is lying. Nice. Case closed.

Hmmm, better than Reuben's.
..One more.
Ben!
..My last one.
Okay.

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Saturday, October 6, 2012 1:44 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Maybe they don't like being accused of racism, homophobia, xenophobia, hating women, or elitism for merely voicing their opinions ?

Ever think of that ?

Ever think of not supporting causes that are racist, homophobic, xenophobic, anti-women, or anti-intellectual.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Saturday, October 6, 2012 1:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I notice a lack of serious debate from conservatives, which is a shame. The conservatives who come here are not really representative of the larger debate, and are not great at discussing issues in complex way. I think that partially explains some of the meanness that can happen.

Maybe they don't like being accused of racism, homophobia, xenophobia, hating women, or elitism for merely voicing their opinions ?

Ever think of that ?

Are you saying that you are too fearful to voice your opinions clearly and are unable to discuss views of complexity because of your fears that you will be accused of the above?

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Saturday, October 6, 2012 1:57 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I notice a lack of serious debate from conservatives, which is a shame. The conservatives who come here are not really representative of the larger debate, and are not great at discussing issues in complex way. I think that partially explains some of the meanness that can happen.

Maybe they don't like being accused of racism, homophobia, xenophobia, hating women, or elitism for merely voicing their opinions ?

Ever think of that ?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

And every time they resort to those things they automatically lose. Like when the DNC Spokesman said this week that if Romney is speaking he is lying. Nice. Case closed.

Hmmm, better than Reuben's.
..One more.
Ben!
..My last one.
Okay.

You two HAVE read some of your own posts here, right?

I mean, one teacher does a stupid thing, so Rappy says they're all part of a "Statist" cult, just like all of "the Left". Jongsie doesn't like the former RNC chair, a black man, so refers to him as a "house nigger", which according to Jongsie's own post above, means he just automatically lost any argument by resorting to such things...

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Saturday, October 6, 2012 2:14 PM

OONJERAH

As a child, I thought that good manners were phony-baloney, the sign
of shallow, arrogant snobs. But as I approached the young age of 40,
I began to realize how utterly wrong I was.

I was looking for, but did not find, the quote about how Civilization is
truly dependant on good manners, for it is the "lubricant" of diplomacy
needed to maintain communication and agreements. . . . Does anyone know it?

Mien Magazine: http://www.mienmagazine.com/romance/who-said-so-the-origins-of-etiquet
te/
Good manners and protocol are the cornerstones of all civilized societies and date
back as recorded codes to the ancient Egyptians, around 2000 B.C. . . .
“Diplomacy is nothing but a lot of hot air,” said a companion to French Statesman
George Clemenceau as they rode to a peace conference. “All etiquette is hot air,”
said Clemenceau. “But that is what is in our automobile tires; notice how it eases
the bumps.” And so it is in government, business and social circles today. An elaborate
system of the ways we communicate with one another shows that we have respect for
our fellow man, and as well it reflects on our own self esteem.

wiseGEEK: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-good-manners.htm
Good manners are a set of behaviors which mark someone as a civilized and cultured
member of a society. Manners are usually taught from a very young age, with some
people receiving additional training in etiquette, formal rules of conduct which apply
to a variety of situations. Someone who lacks good manners may be considered
boorish or inappropriate, and he or she may be at a disadvantage in many social
situations.

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Saturday, October 6, 2012 5:58 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"The conservatives who come here are not really representative of the larger debate ..."

But they ARE representative of the 'other side'.

POLL: Most Republicans Still Believe That Iraq Had WMD | A new poll http://www.dartmouth.edu/~benv/files/poll%20responses%20by%20party%20I
D.pdf conducted by Dartmouth government professor Benjamin Valentino found that 63 percent of Republican respondents still believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction when the United States invaded in 2003, even though this assertion has been thoroughly debunked. In comparison, only 27 percent of independents and less than 15 percent of Democrats believed in the misinformation. Additionally, 64 percent of Republican respondents believe that President Obama was born in another country. As the Huffington Post’s Dan Froomkin notes, “this latest poll result seems to indicate a refusal — unique to the modern Republican Party — to acknowledge facts.”

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=53185&p=2

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Saturday, October 6, 2012 7:51 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So anyway, Niki and SignyM

The following is as I see it:

The reason I think you find yourself debating little rappy et al despite your attempts not to do so is b/c you are basically very fact-driven. You simply CAN'T believe that there are people with such a complete disregard for facts as those posters have. And yet, there it is.

Some of their mental BS I think is pure partisanship - as someone pointed out elsewhere, they knew Romney was lying but were OK with it b/c it got them (as they thought) a 'win'. And some of it is sheer repetition - more of them now believe Obama is foreign - or a Muslim - than during his campaign. And some of it is simply that their thinking checked out a long time ago in favor of belief in their authorities.

In any case, in terms of their delusions, it really is true that presenting them with facts is worse than not doing anything at all. For them, the truth will NOT set them free.

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Saturday, October 6, 2012 8:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

OK so how about this topic....?

I'm re-landscaping part of my backyard into a bee-friendly, butterfly-friendly, bird (including hummingbird)-friendly native xeriscape. I'm putting in hollyleaf cherry, manazanitas, scrub oak, currants, eriogonum, sages, monkeyflower, fall-blooming crocuses, rhus trilobata, yarrow... and, for the spring, yellow and white cosmos.

Manzanita

Eriogonum (CA buckwheat)

Rhus trilobata

Cleveland sage

Monkeyflower

Yellow cosmos

This is going to be really pretty

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Saturday, October 6, 2012 9:59 PM

Lovely.

I'm doing the same down here, only the native plants are different

Native mint

maleleuca

lemon myrtle

native pepper

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Sunday, October 7, 2012 2:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Magons. that looks like a little piece of heaven!

Yanno, it took me a good many years to "get" the CA landscape. I'm originally from some place a lot wetter, greener - and whiter in the winter. I still miss snow. And there are a few landscapes I don't think I will ever really enjoy. (The Sonoran desert comes to mind.)

But here are some examples of CA coastal scrub

Pine-oak scrub

For now, my landscaping is in the back and my next project is solar cells on the roof. This last heatwave along with our electric bills and plus some truly good plans from the solar companies have made PV make economic sense. I'd be saving about $2000 a year. And then after that, i HAVE to finish the interior renovation. But somewhere along the way, I'm going to start xeriscaping the front yard. I can't imagine what the neighbors will think!

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Sunday, October 7, 2012 5:37 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
The reason I think you find yourself debating little rappy et al despite your attempts not to do so is b/c you are basically very fact-driven. You simply CAN'T believe that there are people with such a complete disregard for facts as those posters have. And yet, there it is.

Bingo, with a capital "B". You nailed it; I am constantly astonished at that, and just can't get my mind around it. In high school I was involved with the NFL--not that one, the National Forensic League--and we learned how to debate. Now, nobody is completely objective, I recognize that, but the things they write just aren't of this world, and it keeps banging I guess right up against my belief in how to debate...sigh...

Quote:
Some of their mental BS I think is pure partisanship - as someone pointed out elsewhere, they knew Romney was lying but were OK with it b/c it got them (as they thought) a 'win'.... some of it is simply that their thinking checked out a long time ago in favor of belief in their authorities.

Yeah, I get that, RWA and all, I guess after dealing with real people in the real world, I've never met people like them and just canNOT get past it sometimes. I need to work on that, 'cuz you're absolutely right and I know it.

And absolutely, Oonj, that's another wall I keep banging my head again. Never known anyone in real life who is as vituperative as they are, and was brought up to utilize good manners., I've fallen into the habit of allowing my own good manners to slip here, and that's another thing I try to keep working on. But when I KEEP coming up against this, and the above, it's hard to keep remembering. It's being reminded of what Kiki said and your remarks that sets me back on track--which I know I'll fall off of again down the line. Also sigh...

Hey, Sig, like your change in topics. I "play" with plants constantly, but since I'm mostly confined to the old recliner, mine is done in hanging plants and pots. I LOVE that so many (especially calobrachia) attract hummers...and of course I have a window hummer feeder which lets us watch them up close. I haven't put much effort into attracting bees and "flutterbyes", but they come nonetheless.

In Marin, many of our areas are just COVERED in Manzanita (and Madrone), and I learned long ago that it's the Manzanita "bells" up on Mt. Tam which keep the hummers alive through the Winter. Also, the Mountain is rife with Monkey Flower, but I've never particularly liked it because of its stickiness. I 'm afraid I don't do much with native plants in our own yard--bad girl!--because natives just aren't that interesting to me. Except for Indian Warrior and Paintbursh, which I adore...and the rare Columbine we used to find when I hiked.

I think YOURS will be a little bit of heaven; lots of bright colors there--I love color. I never "landscaped", I just kinda put stuff here and there. Began buying perennials a few years back instead of annuals, and had a comeuppance; perennials keep getting bigger and bigger, so after a couple of years I had to find some place to plant them besides the hanging baskets! So my hard kind of "landscaped" itself, if you will.

Don't have any recent photos, but this is what my hanging plants look like most years:

And the front steps don't escape either:

My hanging baskets and potted plants are mostly devoted to really colorful stuff:

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Sunday, October 7, 2012 7:36 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Beautiful stuff all.

I'm very much into low maintenance myself. I'm from the northeast but early summer - before the plants all start to look like they're ripening - is my favorite season. Also, as I've slowly learned, here in So Cal trees and large shrubs are low maintenance, low water and cool the yard. And here in So Cal up in the foothills I can have all that!

So I have a fair bit of hardscape (composite decking for extra-wide walkways), mulch, and lots of trees and shrubs that were here, that I planted, or that planted themselves.

Two large self-sown coast live oak, plus two small ones

an full-grown incense cedar that was here already

along with a full-grown juniper tree that was here already

two large crape myrtles, one of which was here already and the other of which the city planted on the parkway at my request when I first moved in decades ago, plus a beautiful volunteer crape myrtle in its natural form

three planted Carolina cherry trees

two planted hedges of hollyleaf cherries

a large volunteer privet clump (which people here let grow into 35' multi-trunked trees)

three volunteer mimosa ranging from small (15') to huge

a volunteer fan palm - the challenge in fact is to keep the numbers down, they sprout EVERYwhere

a beautiful volunteer shrub I have no idea what it is ...

I think that's it for now. I want to plant some type of ash tree and some trees that bear human food instead of bird/ bee/ critter food.

What I like best is that I can listen to all the birds twitter and chatter and sing, and watch the birds that seem to like it here. I never knew this before, but the jays actually use their beaks to pound open acorns. I got to watch one right outside my back slider. And the hummingbirds love the mimosas in bloom. The trees seem to make the place quieter. And the strangest things are bee friendly - the parkway crape myrtle is loaded with bees when it's in bloom, you can hear them humming from 20' away.

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Sunday, October 7, 2012 7:46 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

GORGEOUS crape myrtle! I love that redwood trees grow so fast and so tall...we had two on the side yard, one of which we had to cut down (MANY tears) because it was leaning into the house. But both had grown 30-40 feet tall in the time we've lived here, and like all redwoods, grew on their own.

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Sunday, October 7, 2012 12:23 PM

Well this thread has taken a turn for the better.

Ikiki, do you have a large area of land. That is a lot of big trees.

Niki - I love the pics you post of your house and garden, looks like you have a lovely lifestyle

Sig, I think your garden will be heavenly as well. I can't says ours is at the moment, despite the plants. We've been getting building work of one type or another done over the last 12 months, and had a helluva time with drainage. It's been such a harsh climate recently - severe drought for years, followed by flooding rains. I think I have posted before how resource heavy it is to try and adapt for all possibilities and I am afraid to be fully fire proof, drought and flood prepared is beyond our financial means. Still we do what we can.

Been hard on the plants to, and to know what to plant. The area we live in is cool temperate rainforest. Lots of exotics thrive here, so we have a mix of natives and exotics. The front has camelias, rhodedendrums, and azaleas and the back has a bit of a mix.

What has survived, thankfully, is our massive mountain ash

a stand of elms

tortured willow

and a couple of snowball trees just coming into flower

not to mention our tree ferns

which must be original vegetation, maybe around 100 years old some of them.

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Sunday, October 7, 2012 12:34 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Ikiki, do you have a large area of land."

Actually - no! Just a standard old-timey city lot of 50' x 175' (~ 15m x 53m). But trees grow UP, so unless you're looking down at them, all you see is the trunks and so they to some extent disappear visually when they get big enough.

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Sunday, October 7, 2012 2:03 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh wow... such lovely plants! NIKI- I LOVE your hanging pots, they're so pretty! And MAGONS... I'm jealous, such big trees! I've never heard of a snowball tree before. But the flowers match the name perfectly.

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Sunday, October 7, 2012 2:40 PM

BYTEMITE

They're also known as "snowball viburnum." They grow pretty well in the states too.

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Sunday, October 7, 2012 2:50 PM

We have two varieties, one has flatter balls than the other (sic) and I think that it is a Japanese snowball. They are pretty when they flower, but a windy day or two will ruin the spectacle which doesn't last all that long.

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Monday, October 8, 2012 7:45 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Thanx, Sig...my flowers keep me alive sometimes, I think. They and my dogs! Most bipolars love color--or, on the other side, those with more depression like black--I love both. Black for clothing, vibrant colors for everything else! ;o)

I should take some photos of this year's bunch...I seem to be having more luck every year, and I refuse to think it's because of my caretaking, as I don't do much different now than before.

Except the damned perennials. I so love Margarites and other daisy-like things with big bloms that I've now got TEN sitting in pots waiting to be planted SOMEWHERE, because they're too big for pots. Some of them are really purty, and Jim's got a new iPhone he's been playing with, so I got a couple of shots of THEM:

These are closeups, of course. I forget what they're called; I fall in love with these things, then they get bigger and bigger and I gotta put 'em in the ground...sigh. I'm trying to learn to read the "height" notations before I give in to temptation and buy them!

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Monday, October 8, 2012 8:01 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"... Most bipolars love color ..."

It's the first thing I notice, no matter where I go. If two people out of 30 at work are wearing the same color, I'll notice. If someone puts up a new sign with a different color, I'll notice the change of color. If I see color where I don't expect it (for example, if someone's instrument has a small red problem-LED glowing), I'll notice, no matter how obscure the spot.

I don't think it means I'm bipolar, btw, just that I'm unusually sensitive to color.
And I LOVE color!

Your flowers --- really pretty.

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Monday, October 8, 2012 10:17 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"... Most bipolars love color ..."

It's the first thing I notice, no matter where I go. If two people out of 30 at work are wearing the same color, I'll notice. If someone puts up a new sign with a different color, I'll notice the change of color. If I see color where I don't expect it (for example, if someone's instrument has a small red problem-LED glowing), I'll notice, no matter how obscure the spot.

I don't think it means I'm bipolar, btw, just that I'm unusually sensitive to color.
And I LOVE color!

Your flowers --- really pretty.

Possibly some Asperger's in there, too. Things like that tend to jump out at me, but it's all just part of that whole pattern-recognition thing.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:49 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Maybe they don't like being accused of racism, homophobia, xenophobia, hating women, or elitism for merely voicing their opinions ?

Ever think of that ?

Ever think of not supporting causes that are racist, homophobic, xenophobic, anti-women, or anti-intellectual.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

Name one of those which I DO support that meet your criteria.

Any one.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, October 9, 2012 3:15 AM