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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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In the movie, Joker commits an act of murder on live television and somehow becomes an icon of rebellion and class upheaval as a result. It’s an arc that tries to justify his leap from supporting player to star — and fails spectacularly.

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Is that what you got from the film, really? Nothing else comes to mind? Second, this was NOT a superhero film. This is leaps and bounds above that genre, although it did take from it.

Sorry, but I couldn't help but submit my two cents. I'll retreat to my corner and comment no further.


sgg

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
. . . not even worth quoting . . .

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I read this comic:

The Comic That Explains Where Joker, the Movie, Went Wrong

Alan Moore’s classic 1988 story, Batman: The Killing Joke, was an inspiration for Todd Phillips’s grim new film — but not in the one way that really mattered.

I’m not the biggest fan of The Killing Joke’s place in Batman lore. Its plotting is too glib and undercooked to warrant its severity, putting Barbara through an unspeakable ordeal to make a fairly ordinary point. Still, I admire it mostly as a distillation of the relationship between the Joker and Batman. The Joker spends the entire comic insisting that they’re two of a kind, both men driven to aberrant behavior after a terrible tragedy; Moore emphasizes that the triumph of Batman’s character is that he resisted abandoning hope and embracing anarchy, as the Joker did.

Phillips’s film keeps much of Moore’s characterization, tracking the life of Arthur Fleck (Phoenix) as he struggles with mental illness, is attacked and harassed in the street multiple times, and becomes a figure of public ridicule when one of his strange stand-up sets is mocked by a legendary talk-show host (Robert De Niro). But the thing that Joker, the movie, lacks is Batman. The film does include a young Bruce Wayne (Dante Pereira-Olson), but flips the order in which the characters’ alter egos are created, having Joker’s transformation into a public menace spur a riot that ends with Bruce’s parents getting murdered.

Without Batman to play off, the reason for Joker’s existence as a protagonist in Phillips’s film is vague at best. The narrative tracks his evolution into an evil creature, providing a revamped and simplistic origin story for a figure who has only ever existed as a distorted mirror image of the Caped Crusader. Even when compared with Moore and Bolland’s comic, Joker is a bitter and humorless work, an attempt to add gravitas to a character who typically hasn’t stood for anything broadly metaphorical. In the movie, Joker commits an act of murder on live television and somehow becomes an icon of rebellion and class upheaval as a result. It’s an arc that tries to justify his leap from supporting player to star — and fails spectacularly.

More at www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2019/10/killing-joke-and-jok
er/599512/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
I love how Ryan Reynolds put ' Hugh Jackman ' instead of Logan.

What a bromance going on there.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
So, whatever the critics negatively post is what YOU think of the film.

Got it. I will say nothing further to you about it. Thanks for playing along.


sgg

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When I was typing up the cast credits, I came to the line "based on the book by Truman Capote." Some grim humor suggested that I could keep on typing: " . . . and the murders by Perry Smith and Dick Hickock." In an important sense, this movie was created by Smith and Hickock. They spent most of their lives compiling biographies that prepared them for their crime.

Perry came from a violent childhood. His mother drank, his father flew into explosive rages, he was beaten in orphanages. Dick came from marginal poverty, a rootless existence without values. So both were "victims of society,'' in the way defense attorneys use that term. For their own victims, they chose the Clutter family--a well-off, middle-class, God-fearing family that, in every respect, lived in an opposite world.

If this had been fiction, the themes could not have been more obvious. Two opposed cultures collide. The outsiders kill the insiders in the first round, then lose the second to the hangman.

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
So, whatever the critics negatively post is what YOU think of the film.

Got it. I will say nothing further to you about it. Thanks for playing along.


sgg

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I saw a pirated copy of Joker. Joker is a stinker, both as a man and as a movie. Many different movie reviewers explained why in technical detail, saving me the effort. But if you think it is a great movie about the origin story of a mass murderer, well ... super for you.

The reason Hollywood's comic book movies are mostly done from the viewpoint of the hero or the nominally good guy is because most people want to see the bad guy, Joker for one, come to a bad ending, rather than dance around in the sunlight at a sanitorium, leaving bloody footprints and planning his inevitable next mass murder spree when he escapes.

Did you pay attention to the music as the Joker walked away from the murder at the end of the movie? The words were "When I find myself flat on my face, I pick myself up and get back in the race." Joker, the man, should have been knocked down so he can never get back in any race. That could make a good movie and it also breaks the the usual DC Comics ending where Batman sends Joker to another vacation at Arkham. A good movie is "In Cold Blood" which ended with the hanging of a murderer, who was a much better man than Joker.

In Cold Blood (re-release) 2006
www.metacritic.com/movie/in-cold-blood-re-release

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When I was typing up the cast credits, I came to the line "based on the book by Truman Capote." Some grim humor suggested that I could keep on typing: " . . . and the murders by Perry Smith and Dick Hickock." In an important sense, this movie was created by Smith and Hickock. They spent most of their lives compiling biographies that prepared them for their crime.

Perry came from a violent childhood. His mother drank, his father flew into explosive rages, he was beaten in orphanages. Dick came from marginal poverty, a rootless existence without values. So both were "victims of society,'' in the way defense attorneys use that term. For their own victims, they chose the Clutter family--a well-off, middle-class, God-fearing family that, in every respect, lived in an opposite world.

If this had been fiction, the themes could not have been more obvious. Two opposed cultures collide. The outsiders kill the insiders in the first round, then lose the second to the hangman.

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www.rogerebert.com/reviews/in-cold-blood-1968

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
I love how Ryan Reynolds put ' Hugh Jackman ' instead of Logan.

What a bromance going on there.

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lol

What is The Wolfpack?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
I love how Ryan Reynolds put ' Hugh Jackman ' instead of Logan.

What a bromance going on there.

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lol

What is The Wolfpack?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Dunno. Maybe ask Ryan

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quit projecting your bullshit and fake virtue on to other people.

You're the one that goes around suggesting that people murder their bosses all the time. You're the one that talks about his power fantasies where you can assassinate the president and you know you could get away with it.



Ask yourself why you need to be mollycoddled by Hollywood and why you find something like Joker so appalling.

Is it because you, yourself, are The Joker?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by second:
I think Joker doesn't have enough going for him to make a interesting movie, unless the movie has a Batman around for Joker to bounce off.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Oh... and by the way...

Harley Quinn was introduced by Batman the Animated Series. She didn't get her start in the comics.

People who don't know anything about comics don't know that, so I figured I'd help you out.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Oh... and by the way...

Harley Quinn was introduced by Batman the Animated Series. She didn't get her start in the comics.

People who don't know anything about comics don't know that, so I figured I'd help you out.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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I never claimed to be a comic book guy, which is why I either don't mind what happens to characters in the movies ( as long as it decent material ) if it deviates too much from their origin story, be it comic or animated series.

All I know of Harley Quinn is that I loved her on screen version from Suicide Squad and Kevin Smith named his daughter after the character.

Still, being a Tolkien fan, I " get " why some characters have a canon that should be respected, while others ...maybe not so much.

I liked how Joker's actual origin played out ( or did it ? ) in mov...I mean " film ". It was intriguing , to say the least, with how he and Bruce Wayne had a shared history. Of sorts.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

It's not like men don't like crazy hot younger women.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yeah... Like I said originally it's 50/50.

Did you think of that possibility when you saw it? Like I had mentioned before, it didn't cross my brother or my dad's mind and they actually argued me on it at first until I explained where I was coming from.





I think that would be awesome though, if they continue with this version of the Universe if you find out they actually were brothers, but it would have to be done in a meaningful way. Hopefully Disney doesn't buy DC before then or that's never going to happen.


Honestly, my hope is that DC dumps everything else they were working on, reboots their entire movie franchise and centers it around this movie and style.

It's not too far fetched of a hope, given that the movie is on course to pretty easily make 20 times what it cost to produce. Time will tell.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Oh... and by the way...

Harley Quinn was introduced by Batman the Animated Series. She didn't get her start in the comics.

People who don't know anything about comics don't know that, so I figured I'd help you out.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Oh... and by the way...

Harley Quinn was introduced by Batman the Animated Series. She didn't get her start in the comics.

People who don't know anything about comics don't know that, so I figured I'd help you out.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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I never claimed to be a comic book guy, which is why I either don't mind what happens to characters in the movies ( as long as it decent material ) if it deviates too much from their origin story, be it comic or animated series.

All I know of Harley Quinn is that I loved her on screen version from Suicide Squad and Kevin Smith named his daughter after the character.

Still, being a Tolkien fan, I " get " why some characters have a canon that should be respected, while others ...maybe not so much.

I liked how Joker's actual origin played out ( or did it ? ) in mov...I mean " film ". It was intriguing , to say the least, with how he and Bruce Wayne had a shared history. Of sorts.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Oh... and by the way...

Harley Quinn was introduced by Batman the Animated Series. She didn't get her start in the comics.

People who don't know anything about comics don't know that, so I figured I'd help you out.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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I never claimed to be a comic book guy, which is why I either don't mind what happens to characters in the movies ( as long as it decent material ) if it deviates too much from their origin story, be it comic or animated series.

All I know of Harley Quinn is that I loved her on screen version from Suicide Squad and Kevin Smith named his daughter after the character.

Still, being a Tolkien fan, I " get " why some characters have a canon that should be respected, while others ...maybe not so much.

I liked how Joker's actual origin played out ( or did it ? ) in mov...I mean " film ". It was intriguing , to say the least, with how he and Bruce Wayne had a shared history. Of sorts.

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Did you read my theory that Bruce and Arthur actually are brothers?

It may have gotten lost in all of the bullshit. I was hoping somebody would reply to that, but nobody has so far.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Video doesn't display, but all you had to do was say Steve Shives.

You don't actually value any of that guy's opinions on anything under the sun, do you SGG?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

I see a fair amount of ' movies '. Few films though.

I got dragged to Capote back when it came out. I thought it was well done, the acting was impressive and the story dramatic.

But it's not my cup of tea. Again, like w/ Joker, I can say it's an impressive work w/ out it being my favorite.

I almost nodded off during one part, I hate to say, but still, Phillip Seymore Hoffman put in a heck of a performance.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

It's not like men don't like crazy hot younger women.

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FIFY ;)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
It cost $55M to make, I think it's well past 20 times.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Exactly Rappy.

One could admire a work of art without giving up their first born. But yeah, Joker is a masterpiece, make no mistake, but it doesn't have to become your "fav" unless you go for that type of film.

I hold lots of films in high esteem, but don't have them in my Top Ten. Those films are "favs" that happen to be masterstrokes in film making. These are films I don't mind watching over and over again (well, duh!).

But you've hit the nail on the head.

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I did not watch the Shives video. Shives gives me hives.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Exactly Rappy.

One could admire a work of art without giving up their first born. But yeah, Joker is a masterpiece, make no mistake, but it doesn't have to become your "fav" unless you go for that type of film.

I hold lots of films in high esteem, but don't have them in my Top Ten. Those films are "favs" that happen to be masterstrokes in film making. These are films I don't mind watching over and over again (well, duh!).

But you've hit the nail on the head.

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I still haven't watched it a second time. I probably won't until it's out of theaters, unless my other brother has some free time before then and we can catch a cheap matinee somewhere.

But now that the experience has worn off, I still think my favorite flick is Ink, from 2009.

I'd love to know what you thought of Ink if you saw it. Pretty amazing to see what they were able to do with only $250,000.

I get chills just watching the trailer again. Going to have to watch it again myself soon.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
It cost $55M to make, I think it's well past 20 times.

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It's got to make $1.1 Billion worldwide to get the 20 times. It's close, and I have little doubt that it will, but we're only at $857 Million right now.

At $283 Million, it's now the 6th highest grossing movie domestically in the US. It's got to pull in another $43 million domestically to take number 5 from Deadpool 2, but if it can manage that, it shouldn't be a problem to get number 4 from It as well. I don't think it's going to get any higher than that though, looking at the numbers. It would take some sort of major resurgence of interest, or a very long time in the theaters to break $350 Million domestically and take the third spot. It would need another $20 million beyond that to take number 1.






I did not watch the Shives video. Shives gives me hives.

I'll watch that Q & A though and let you know what I think.



Here's a video I saw last night that you guys need to watch. I think it says it all about why the critics (only) in the US are so negative against the Joker.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
After tallying the 4th weekend numbers, Joker is officially the number 1 R rated movie worldwide as well as internationally.

https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Joker-(2019)#tab=summary

It is number 7 domestically, as of the Monday night take, but it's almost a sure thing to beat out the terrible Matrix Reloaded and take the number 6 spot after tonight... if not, it will have by Wednesday night.





1. The Passion of the Christ $370,782,930
2. Deadpool $363,070,709
3. American Sniper $350,126,372
4. It $327,481,748
5. Deadpool 2 $324,591,735
6. The Matrix Reloaded $281,553,689
7. Joker $279,701,557

https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-records/worldwide/all-movies/mp
aa-ratings/r-(us)

25 million and 28 million to overtake "Deadpool 2" and "It" shouldn't be a problem. Likely to happen two weeks from now when the weekend numbers are in then.

It should still have another two months in the theaters domestically, at least. It probably won't get the full four months that Captain Marvel did before it left theaters, but Alita Battle Angel only made $85 million domestically and got a three month domestic run.


Is it possible for Joker to make another $89 million in two months to take number one?


It would be quite funny if it did and it triggers Mel Gibson to go on a drunken rampage again.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Joker snags Best Soundtrack and Best Actor in a Drama. Was also nominated for best Drama Motion Picture and Best Director.

Looks like Second was wrong again. Imagine that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I have not seen this film, and from what I've heard I might not.


But recently, I heard that this is effectively a remake of Black Swan, with some King of Comedy scenes thrown in, and some John Wayne Gacy action.

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Originally posted by THG:
Oscar nominations 2020: ‘Joker’ leads with 11 nominations

T

Too bad Joaquin Phoenix is a dick.

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Originally posted by whozit:

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Originally posted by THG:
Oscar nominations 2020: ‘Joker’ leads with 11 nominations

T

Too bad Joaquin Phoenix is a dick.

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This is great news, and yes Phoenix is a line of coke away from taking hostages BUT! I think this list of nominations is the best in years. Since most of these flicks did great B.O. the ratings for the awards show may be very good. I hope "Joker" wins but I think the race is between "1917" and "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood", (The Irishman is way over rated) and I think Phoenix is a lock to win best actor...and will say something nutz.

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Originally posted by THG:
Oscar nominations 2020: ‘Joker’ leads with 11 nominations



Too bad Joaquin Phoenix is a dick.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by THG:
Oscar nominations 2020: ‘Joker’ leads with 11 nominations



Too bad Joaquin Phoenix is a dick.

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The list of Hollywood A listers who fall into that category is pretty long. That's nothing special.

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