Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I gotta comment:

First, Cage was not sent to lead anyone, he was sent by the general to "sell" the attack scheduled for the next day.

As far as Sgt. Farrell was concerned, Cage was just another grunt. Yes, he was lied to by the general, who had his own motives, but Farrell was regular army, a stickler for rigid conformity to rules and regs. (As both his speech and subsequent behavior shows). Farrell assumed, from the lie, that Cage went through basic training and was commenting on his character based on that lie.

Truth be told, Farrell's instincts were right on the money, the lie notwithstanding, Cage was a coward, afraid to see his own blood. He was, as he put it, "parasitic scum" and was about to be "baptized." Farrell couldn't care less who Cage was. To him, he was just another grunt, a deserter. Rita, as she discovered who he was, seized the opportunity to use Cage as a weapon to "Win the War." It was Rita who helped to "baptize" Cage and forged his destiny as a warrior, a death machine. It was Rita who inspired Cage. Each time he was reset, he learned more about himself, about J Squad, but ultimately about Rita which gave him purpose.

Farrell's statement was point blank on the money, regardless of what lies he was told about Cage. That's what he believed in, that was a part of him, as much as his mustache and sergeant stripes.


SGG

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Tell you what else JSF: instead of getting into some silly "I'm right, no I'm right" here, let's wait until the DVD with all the extras comes out. Let's watch the commentary and such, and then let's see what the writers, directors, and actors have to say about the arc of TC's character.

What do you say?

---

In case you are interested, I'll try to explain some things.

Also, if using films and screenwriters as accurate comprehenders of military such as the ludicrous Few Good Men as our standard, then don't read further and stay in the fantasy world.

Do you think that a doctor, an MD, should be placed in command of a combat battalion? Even if he is a Colonel? Even if he has never attended War College or Potential Command Course? If he were, his battalion would be massacred at the first exchange of fire. He is not trained for the combat, he has been trained for the medical application of his talents and knowledge. Do you think military personnel respect him less because he is not "earned" rank, as you imply? The combat injured would much rather have a War College graduate without a smidgen of medical training cut him open and repair his insides? A person would have to be insane to suggest either.

MDs are not placed in command of combat units, infantry units, tanks, air or sea squadrons unless they are separately trained for those tasks and commands. That would be disasterous for all concerned, and the military would fail along with the government behind it.

JDs are not placed in command of combat units for the same reason, yet doctors and JAG officers raise in rank. Those are earned rank, regardless of what you wish to claim.

Magor Cage was not trained in combat tactics, techniques, strategy, just like JAGs and Medical Officers are not, unless they specifically pursue those courses. He has no business being in command of any size or level of combat unit, as the criminally despicable General assigned him to be, at least until he has had some training and experience at command, yet he has earned his rank.

The reason the Sgt said all that was because he had been given a stack of lies, a frame-up of a deserter profile, which had no basis in fact. He was lied to about the training and capabilities Cage had, although he had not had any.

Any reasonable person should be able to understand this.
If I was not clear, please point out what I didn't explain.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Exactly the point I'm making, so you do get it. He cannot save her, so he goes it alone to complete his mission, precisely because his love for her keeps him from completing the mission and defeating the Omega.

Cage doesn't want to see her die, as has happened hundreds of times, he knows she would want to go for broke if she comes along, but she dies anyway.

Geez, do I have to spell everything out. It is obvious what I meant because you asked the very questions, and made the statements that proves my take within the film's context.


SGG

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Okay:

1:11:11 - Cage decides to go after the Omega alone when he goes to see Rita. He knows that if she goes along w=she will not stop.


SGG

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I don't get this. Did you complete your thought? What do you mean? She will stop when she gets killed. She will get killed in every scenario. When he goes alone, this means she will die on the beach, long before he gets to the helicopter.
What are you talking about here?

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:


If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?


SGG

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I've come to another conclusion regarding Sgt. Farrell:

He is the narrator of the film, but brilliantly so. The script gives us his take on what is about to happen, and guides both Cage and J-Squad. He makes J-Squad responsible for Cage (a tactic used in the military to forge a union among the soldiers

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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It is also a way to forge unselfishness, contrary to what both Cage and the general had in mind. There is no I in team, etc.


SGG

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The results showed on the beach the next day, when J-squad was wiped out just as they deserved - or, more accurately, Farrell deserved.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Exactly the point I'm making, so you do get it. He cannot save her, so he goes it alone to complete his mission, precisely because his love for her keeps him from completing the mission and defeating the Omega.

Cage doesn't want to see her die, as has happened hundreds of times, he knows she would want to go for broke if she comes along, but she dies anyway.

Geez, do I have to spell everything out. It is obvious what I meant because you asked the very questions, and made the statements that proves my take within the film's context.


SGG

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Okay:

1:11:11 - Cage decides to go after the Omega alone when he goes to see Rita. He knows that if she goes along w=she will not stop.


SGG

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I don't get this. Did you complete your thought? What do you mean? She will stop when she gets killed. She will get killed in every scenario. When he goes alone, this means she will die on the beach, long before he gets to the helicopter.
What are you talking about here?

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OK, looks like I understood what you said, but found it illogical. He knows she will die either way, but finds it better to risk failing to save the world (without her help, teamwork) than having to see her die. I don't see this in the scriptwork, but it sounds like you think so.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I've come to another conclusion regarding Sgt. Farrell:

He is the narrator of the film, but brilliantly so. The script gives us his take on what is about to happen, and guides both Cage and J-Squad. He makes J-Squad responsible for Cage (a tactic used in the military to forge a union among the soldiers

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Incorrect. Lying to J-squad and falsely accusing Cage of fictional crimes does not endear soldiers to forge a union. His abdication of his own responsibility was the reason for deflecting his responsibility to J-squad,

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and create a fighting team).

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Incorrect. Providing a few training take such as how to use an exoskeleton or unsafe the weapon could have gone much farther towards a fighting team - and this lack of any concern towards unit cohesion shows just how lazy, moronic, stupid, retarded Farrell was and how little he cared about whether the men under him in J-squad could be combat effective.

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It is also a way to forge unselfishness, contrary to what both Cage and the general had in mind. There is no I in team, etc.


SGG

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The results showed on the beach the next day, when J-squad was wiped out just as they deserved - or, more accurately, Farrell deserved.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:


If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?


SGG

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Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Well, that is so until the end of the movie when Cage loses his ability to reset the day and he goes to J-Squad to recruit them for the mission. They must act as a unit, along with Rita because now it's for keeps.

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I took a calculated guess that Cage didn't want Rita along because each time she dies at the helicopter, but he doesn't, it is only when he goes that he figures out that it's another trap by the Omega. The new battle plan is to go before the invasion in the morning, of course, after he sees the real hideout of the Omega.


SGG

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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It is also a way to forge unselfishness, contrary to what both Cage and the general had in mind. There is no I in team, etc.


SGG

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The results showed on the beach the next day, when J-squad was wiped out just as they deserved - or, more accurately, Farrell deserved.

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Master Sergeant Farell didn't last a minute in combat. The Mimics weren't impressed by his swagger. Apparently he wasn't as important as he thought he was in the bigger scheme of things.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
OK, looks like I understood what you said, but found it illogical. He knows she will die either way, but finds it better to risk failing to save the world (without her help, teamwork) than having to see her die. I don't see this in the scriptwork, but it sounds like you think so.

---

I took a calculated guess that Cage didn't want Rita along because each time she dies at the helicopter, but he doesn't, it is only when he goes that he figures out that it's another trap by the Omega.

SGG

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Sgt. Farrell is not a narrator in the normal sense where there is a voice-over, he foretells the story of Cage, from "parasitic scum" to soldier forged in glorious combat.



At first, I thought Farrell was just spewing old school gung-ho army bullshit, but as I watched a 2nd and 3rd time, I began to understand that he was foretelling Cage's destiny - in other words the main theme of the story. A romanticized vision of the soldier/hero who sacrifices all to win the battle and the war. The fiery crucible is combat where Cage learns to become a soldier all to save Rita, but also to save J-Squad along the way.

At the film's beginning he is parasitic scum trying to blackmail the general, but he is baptized in battle and by the Alpha and therein begins his journey. Even on D-Day when he tries to run away, Farrell tells him "you're gonna miss your moment" and soon after he kills the Alpha. It is a battle for survival for Cage, but when he meets Rita, everything changes. From there on, he is being remade into the soldier he was destined to be. After killing the Alpha, he changes the dynamic of the Mimicks slaughter, and so begins his journey to ultimate victory. It is Rita, Cage and J-Squad who affect the landscape. But only after Cage experiences and cares for someone other than himself.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?

SGG

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Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?

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What I'm talking about is within the film.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Your recent posts in this thread I find refreshingly on target. I must review the thread to see if I agree with everything you said. Have you found any of my points objectionable?

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Sergeant Ferrell Bartolome had been around longer than anyone else in our platoon. He’d lived through so many battles, he was more than soldier, he was the glue that kept our company together. They said if you stuck him in a centrifuge, he’d come out 70 percent big brother, 20 percent ball-busting drill sergeant, and 10 percent steel-reinforced carbon.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
OK, looks like I understood what you said, but found it illogical. He knows she will die either way, but finds it better to risk failing to save the world (without her help, teamwork) than having to see her die. I don't see this in the scriptwork, but it sounds like you think so.

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I took a calculated guess that Cage didn't want Rita along because each time she dies at the helicopter, but he doesn't, it is only when he goes that he figures out that it's another trap by the Omega.

SGG

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The trap is why Omega needs Rita to not accompany Cage.

I keep rereading your sentence, and still cannot make sense of it.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?

SGG

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Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?

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What I'm talking about is within the film.

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He held the rank of Major. Get over it.
He held the rank, he earned the rank of Major. Deal with it.
I can agree Brigham was a cardboard cutout and did not earn the rank of General, which is in fact why most U.S. forces did not operate under foreign commanders.
If Cage had not earned the rank of Major, he would not have been displayed on worldwide television as a spokesperson wearing a Major costume.

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Your recent posts in this thread I find refreshingly on target. I must review the thread to see if I agree with everything you said. Have you found any of my points objectionable?

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I have no problem with what you wrote.

I admire the movie. The screenplay used a small portion of the novel, throwing away what appeals only to the Japanese: pseudo-scientific explanations, far too much detail about mechanized armor Jackets (what in Japanese imagination makes it desirable to merge with mighty machines? ), intra-group dynamics that only the Japanese would care about.

From the novel All You Need Is Kill © 2004 by Hiroshi Sakurazaka :

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Sergeant Ferrell Bartolome had been around longer than anyone else in our platoon. He’d lived through so many battles, he was more than soldier, he was the glue that kept our company together. They said if you stuck him in a centrifuge, he’d come out 70 percent big brother, 20 percent ball-busting drill sergeant, and 10 percent steel-reinforced carbon.

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Holy crap! I understand why there is still an Emperor. Only in Japan would someone low in the hierarchy write that BS paragraph about their superior's superior qualities. They really want to believe and put faith in those higher up.

The only idea better in the novel than the movie is the name All You Need Is Kill. Banzai!

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
OK, looks like I understood what you said, but found it illogical. He knows she will die either way, but finds it better to risk failing to save the world (without her help, teamwork) than having to see her die. I don't see this in the scriptwork, but it sounds like you think so.

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I took a calculated guess that Cage didn't want Rita along because each time she dies at the helicopter, but he doesn't, it is only when he goes that he figures out that it's another trap by the Omega.

SGG

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The trap is why Omega needs Rita to not accompany Cage.

I keep rereading your sentence, and still cannot make sense of it.

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You're right, after re-reading my response, it doesn't make sense.

Cage knows that Rita dies when they reach the helicopter, he even mentions to her that they try a different scenario where she stays behind in the farm house, and he goes ahead. But, after he goes to visit her at the training facility, he decides it best for him to go alone - in an attempt to save her.

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He is no longer thinking of himself and is willing to sacrifice himself to save her and humanity.

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He now has the hero's mentality.

He goes to the German post where he visualized the Omega, and discovers it's a trap. He returns to talk with Carter and Rita to tell them the bad news, Carter tells Cage that the device is in Whitehall.............they go,

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Cage loses his ability, etc. That's probably how she lost Henderson, no matter what she did, he died. It's like when Superman loses his Earth-father, Jonathan Kent, all those powers and he can't save him.

You're probably right about the Omega calculating into the equation and keeping Rita from going with him to the German mountain.

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One of the things I enjoy about this film is that they don't spoon feed the audience every single plot twist and storyline. It makes you think.


SGG

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?

SGG

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Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?

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What I'm talking about is within the film.

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He held the rank of Major. Get over it.
He held the rank, he earned the rank of Major. Deal with it.
I can agree Brigham was a cardboard cutout and did not earn the rank of General, which is in fact why most U.S. forces did not operate under foreign commanders.
If Cage had not earned the rank of Major, he would not have been displayed on worldwide television as a spokesperson wearing a Major costume.

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I know that he was a major, and how he got to be one. ROTC training, owned an advertising agency, etc. He did not earn his position on the battlefield,

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He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.

In the beginning of the film, Cage talks about how with limited training a soldier could literally defeat an army with the suit on.

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Cage might have been a major,

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but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess.

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The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major,

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The first time he comes to Rita in the training facility in the barracks; he's a

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When he resets the first encounter at the end, he's a major

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and the men in the facility snap to attention...........honoring his

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rank....


SGG

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?

SGG

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Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?

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What I'm talking about is within the film.

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He did not earn his position on the battlefield,

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He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.

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Cage might have been a major, but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess.

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The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major,

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or he probably got it through conniving and his underhanded abilities.

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SGG

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?

SGG

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Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?

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What I'm talking about is within the film.

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I know that he was a major, and how he got to be one. ROTC training, owned an advertising agency, etc. He did not earn his position on the battlefield,

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that is not in the film.

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hence Farrell's speech and it's true meaning.

I did not say he was stupid, Cage was plenty smart, so much so, he thought blackmailing a general would (like in the civilian world) get him the results he would ordinarily get. He even tried to run. He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.

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that is not in the film.

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In the beginning of the film, Cage talks about how with limited training a soldier could literally defeat an army with the suit on. He certainly finds out differently. Just before he tries blackmailing the general, he tells him how he can't stand the sight of blood, not even so much as a paper cut. He is a complete wuss. Cage might have been a major, but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess.

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that is not in the film.

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The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major,

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that is not in the film.

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or he probably got it through conniving and his underhanded abilities.

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that is not in the film.

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SGG

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I'm using my imagination and filling in the blanks. Kind of developing a back story
to complete a picture of just who is Cage.

Anyway, we don't have to be told things verbatim, that can be expressed through inference.


SGG

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please)

SGG

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What I'm talking about is within the film.

SGG

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I know that he was a major, and how he got to be one. ROTC training, owned an advertising agency, etc. He did not earn his position on the battlefield,

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that is not in the film.

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I did not say he was stupid, Cage was plenty smart, so much so, he thought blackmailing a general would (like in the civilian world) get him the results he would ordinarily get. He even tried to run. He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.

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that is not in the film.

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Quote:

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In the beginning of the film, Cage talks about how with limited training a soldier could literally defeat an army with the suit on. He certainly finds out differently. Just before he tries blackmailing the general, he tells him how he can't stand the sight of blood, not even so much as a paper cut. He is a complete wuss. Cage might have been a major, but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess.

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that is not in the film.

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The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major,
....
or he probably got it through conniving and his underhanded abilities.

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that is not in the film.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?

SGG

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Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?

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What I'm talking about is within the film.

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He did not earn his position on the battlefield,

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He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.

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Cage might have been a major, but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess.

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The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major,

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or he probably got it through conniving and his underhanded abilities.

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SGG

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No. The General was being an ass. You might think of it as "first wave" and write them off. But those were supposed to be trained guys. He ["He" here being Cage] was not, absolutely not. He was wasting a suit/armor thing. He absolutely should not have been there.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
This is solely for SGG. I will try to clarify.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?

SGG

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Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?

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What I'm talking about is within the film.

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He did not earn his position on the battlefield,

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that is not in the film.

Quote:

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He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.

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that is not in the film.

Quote:

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Cage might have been a major, but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess.

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that is not in the film.

Quote:

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The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major,

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that is not in the film.

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or he probably got it through conniving and his underhanded abilities.

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that is not in the film.

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SGG

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I hope that reduces your confusion.

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Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
And here is what JSF said in the first page of this thread:

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No. The General was being an ass. You might think of it as "first wave" and write them off. But those were supposed to be trained guys. He ["He" here being Cage] was not, absolutely not. He was wasting a suit/armor thing. He absolutely should not have been there.

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JSF said, straight up, that Cage was "not, absolutely not" a "trained guy."

My lord, JSF, you really are a troll. You make it so easy to prove what a doorknob you are. What is so wrong with you that you feed off being such an obvious moron? Have you no pride?





*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
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Originally posted by ecgordon:
JSF, you continually dig a deeper hole for yourself. Just because something is not specifically stated or shown in the film, it doesn't mean you can't infer certain things based on a character's actions. There is no reason to assume Cage reached his position due to military action or training, but there is ample reason to assume he got it by political means.

There is no argument that Cage is a hero by the end of the film, but he is the exact opposite at the beginning. SGG has asked you multiple times to show where in the movie it is shown or stated otherwise, but you have failed to do so.

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Originally posted by ecgordon:
Just because something is not specifically stated or shown in the film, it doesn't mean you can't infer certain things based on a character's actions. There is no reason to assume Cage reached his position due to military action or training,

SGG has asked you multiple times to show where in the movie it is shown or stated otherwise, but you have failed to do so.

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
JSF, I really enjoy talking about a good movie and figuring out the different meanings and plot twists, but you make it hard to want to continue the discussion.

I am more than willing to discuss anyone's take on a film's theme or a character's motivation. All, like any work of art, stimulates the imagination and stirs the soul.


SGG

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by ecgordon:
Just because something is not specifically stated or shown in the film, it doesn't mean you can't infer certain things based on a character's actions. There is no reason to assume Cage reached his position due to military action or training,

SGG has asked you multiple times to show where in the movie it is shown or stated otherwise, but you have failed to do so.

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Logic failure.

We can use things not stated or shown in the film.
I must use things only stated or shown in the film.

Make up your mind.
When I mention things not explicitly stated or shown in the film, these are not allowed.
When SGG uses things he dreamed, fantasized, or conjured, those are solid bits, even when showing his obvious lack of military knowledge.

Come on. A non-commissioned Sergeant has the authority to strip a Filed Grade Commissioned Officer of his rank? You must be joking.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Regarding my first post/reply yesterday, I mistaken thought I was replying to SGG, but it was Mal4 who prompted my post. Sorry for any confusion there.

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Originally posted by ecgordon:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by ecgordon:
Just because something is not specifically stated or shown in the film, it doesn't mean you can't infer certain things based on a character's actions. There is no reason to assume Cage reached his position due to military action or training,

SGG has asked you multiple times to show where in the movie it is shown or stated otherwise, but you have failed to do so.

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Logic failure.

We can use things not stated or shown in the film.
I must use things only stated or shown in the film.

Make up your mind.
When I mention things not explicitly stated or shown in the film, these are not allowed.
When SGG uses things he dreamed, fantasized, or conjured, those are solid bits, even when showing his obvious lack of military knowledge.

Come on. A non-commissioned Sergeant has the authority to strip a Filed Grade Commissioned Officer of his rank? You must be joking.

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SGG may have asked you to point to anything in the film to support your theories, but I didn't. But the truth is, you haven't presented anything either in the film or just implied to support your pronouncements about Cage. You accuse Farrell of stripping Cage of his rank, but that action was taken by Brigham, and it was because of Cage's arrogance that he could threaten a superior officer and walk out on his duty. You've also gone so far as to imply General Brigham was in collusion with the aliens. I have to echo the question, "Where do you come up with this crap?"

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Originally posted by second:
Tom Cruise displays something that appears to be telepathy, when it is not that at all. It is precognition or, exactly, seeing the future because he has been there. Cruise is better than River Tam at discovering people's inner secrets. For example:
"Your name is NOT really Ford. Ford was your friend who died in combat on his first day. You took his place and send your paychecks to his family."

That little revelation surprised Ford and the entire platoon. Cruise persuades them to follow him on a suicide mission to Paris. Go or not go, they know they die at dawn. So they go.

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I was disappointed in the ending because it was neatly, but quite abruptly tied up into a cute bow. It was, for me anyways, anti-climatic. But not in a totally dissatisfying way. It's just that after all that brilliant set up during the first 3/4 of the movie, it felt like they rushed those final scenes to fit the movie under a certain time. . . .
In my ending both Rita and Cage get to be heroes.

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I think the alternative ending in the book would make for a very unsatisfying movie. Tom Cruise promises the forever dead, with no hope of a reset, Emily Blunt:

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While I live and breathe, humanity will never fall. I promise you. It may take a dozen years, but I will win this war for you. Even if you won’t be here to see it. You were the only person I wanted to protect, and you were gone.

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The book's ending was too Japanese for me.

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I sat there for some time holding the last cup of coffee she’d ever made, for someone she’d barely known. Its thin aroma stirred in me an insufferable longing and sadness. A small colony of blue-green mold bobbed on the surface of the coffee. Raising the cup to my lips, I drank.

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That's not a good ending for a movie. www.amazon.com/All-Need-Kill-Hiroshi-Sakurazaka/dp/1421527618/

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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It is also a way to forge unselfishness, contrary to what both Cage and the general had in mind. There is no I in team, etc.

SGG

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The results showed on the beach the next day, when J-squad was wiped out just as they deserved - or, more accurately, Farrell deserved.

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Master Sergeant Farell didn't last a minute in combat. The Mimics weren't impressed by his swagger. Apparently he wasn't as important as he thought he was in the bigger scheme of things.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Emily Blunt on Letterman tonight.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Finally saw it. Emily is a real treat. I just didn't buy the whole alien invasion thing though. I mean, how did such an advanced species take YEARS to over run the planet ? How was there news coverage and any semblance of society 6 months after they attacked ? They seem damn near impossible to defeat...

Having not read the 4 pages or so of this thread, I guess most of the particulars have been hashed over by now.

I don't hate Tom Cruise as much as I thought I did. He's actually quite watchable. But I liked this movie less than Oblivion. Even with Emily in it.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Finally saw it. Emily is a real treat. I just didn't buy the whole alien invasion thing though. I mean, how did such an advanced species take YEARS to over run the planet ? How was there news coverage and any semblance of society 6 months after they attacked ? They seem damn near impossible to defeat...

Having not read the 4 pages or so of this thread, I guess most of the particulars have been hashed over by now.

I don't hate Tom Cruise as much as I thought I did. He's actually quite watchable. But I liked this movie less than Oblivion. Even with Emily in it.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Finally saw it. Emily is a real treat. I just didn't buy the whole alien invasion thing though. I mean, how did such an advanced species take YEARS to over run the planet ? How was there news coverage and any semblance of society 6 months after they attacked ? They seem damn near impossible to defeat...

Having not read the 4 pages or so of this thread, I guess most of the particulars have been hashed over by now.

I don't hate Tom Cruise as much as I thought I did. He's actually quite watchable. But I liked this movie less than Oblivion. Even with Emily in it.

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Yes, they were hashed out. I agree that the film didn't include enough of the backstory, but it apparently was in the books, and is reasonable.

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.. Catchy slogans, like "the only good bug is a dead bug!"

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Having not read the 4 pages or so of this thread, I guess most of the particulars have been hashed over by now. . . .

Did they have to get over the Earth cold and flu season first ? And as a movie watcher, who did NOT read the books, such back story is important ! Like Dr Evil said... " Need the info, people !" Hell, at least make some off hand reference to the long drawn out war. From what I can tell, even w/ those new battle suits, the humans are still getting mowed down like summer grass.

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