Another Heroes thread by singate

OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Another Heroes thread

POSTED BY: SINGATE
UPDATED: Thursday, May 3, 2007 07:38
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Monday, April 23, 2007 7:51 PM

Can't believe no one else started one yet so here it is. Finally a new episode and well worth the wait, this show doesn't miss a beat.

Sylar vs. Peter round 2 did not disappoint. I don't quite understand what Peter was doing while he was invisible. Shouldn't he have gone on the offensive instead of trying to tip toe out the door? Sylar's solution was fairly inventive. Amazingly that man just gets colder and colder each time he is on screen. The way he talked to Peter then later Isaac about murdering them is so matter of fact, it's like he's discussing a grocery list. Isaac's death scene was particularly brutal. I guess one could say he died like a hero. He didn't run or try to hide, as he stated, "I cannot fight the future it's too big for me".

I'm thrilled that Ted and Matt escaped, not so excited on their teaming up with Bennet. I knew Linderman was his boss but was surprised that he didn't know.

I enjoyed seeing Jessica get played, imagine she won't be very happy when she figures it out. I figure Linderman is going to use Micah's talent to alter the election results via computer.

Cool ending with Hiro meeting his future self. Didn't think that was allowed for lack of a better term. Future Hiro did not seem pleased.

Looks like all the players are moving into position for the endgame, the final four episodes should be fantastic.

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Monday, April 23, 2007 8:25 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

The Sylar v. Peter was good. What we learned was the Peter can take Sylar in a fight. Until now Sylar appeared to be the stronger, but Peter was able defend himself quite successfully. Kind of like Hannibal though, he doesn’t seem to know how to use a victory, and actually ended up loosing this round. His death and ultimate resurrection was pretty predictable. We already know that killing Claire is kind of a trick, so Peter shouldn’t be any different, but Sylar doesn’t know that, which gives Peter a strategic advantage.

Ted, Matt and Bennett escaping was also kind of predictable. And it was also somewhat predictable that Bennett has been relegated to “middle management.” This was sort of his official exoneration. A distinction between Bennett and the real bad guys calling the shots.

Yeah, how does Hiro meet his future self? I’m not entirely sure that’s possible. Maybe that’s why future Hiro seemed pissed. He’s going to have to give himself a talking to.

Next episode looks awesome.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Monday, April 23, 2007 11:27 PM

DEEPGIRL187

I had thought about posting a thread last night, but I figured I'd wait. I think some folks are kind of distracted by Drive right now (which in my opinion makes a wonderful lead in to Heroes, even if it is on another network

).

I liked how they protrayed Isaac's death as well. I wonder though, what is it he was referring to exactly, the last good thing he did to help? And on another note, I liked how they showed Sylar's style of painting. It kind of had an unstable look to it.

If Linderman is the big boss, where does that leave Hiro's dad? It doesn't seem like he'd be a small-time player, not with the huge corporation he runs. Is it possible he's more of a partner?

Micah leaving with Linderman gives me pause. Will he give Micah back after he's through with him? And if he doesn't, what will Jessica and DL, do?

I don't think Bennett, Ted, and Matt teaming up is such a bad thing. There might be a chance for them all to do some real good if they can set aside their differences. All the characters seem to be gravitating towards New York now, in preparation for the final showdown. I wonder what's going to ensue.

Oh, and that woman Candace? Really hating her right now.

Edit: I just thought of one more thing. In the previews for the next episode, Mohinder and Nathan were saying something about "genocide". Genocide against whom? If they're talking humans, it would be akin to the Nazi's actions in the Holocaust, clearing the way for a new master race. It would kind of make Nathan like Magneto, in a way. But if it's the heroes, that would have all sorts of interesting implications (not to mention the fact that it would smack of self-loathing).

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Tuesday, April 24, 2007 7:23 AM

STEGASAURUS

One of the things I've been thinking for quite a while now is that Peter's and Nathan's parents must have been "Heroes" as well. Well, we now know that MoM Patrelli is. I figure that She, Linderman, Sulu (heh, Dad Nakimora) and maaaaayyybe Dad Patrelli were some of the first. The cabal that Linderman was telling Nathan about. Remember how he said they used their power for personal gain? Look at them..they're all well off.

Just a guess on my part though.

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Tuesday, April 24, 2007 10:48 AM

CYBERSNARK

The elder Petrelli wasn't a mutant (the comics have confirmed it).

And I don't think Linderman is the boss of Bennet's organization. I think he's someone outside, who is pulling the strings of Bennet's superior.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, April 25, 2007 1:35 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Sylar vs. Peter round 2 was a bit of a disappointment. It was cool to see the look on Sylar's face when Pete's healing ability closed the wound on this forehead and then Pete gave him a TK shove across the room. I thought that Pete going and invisible and not launching some sort of attack was lame. He had his back to Sylar when he was struck by the glass? WTF?!? And why didn't Mohinder kill Sylar when he was out and helpless on the floor? The man is evil and a cold blooded killer. Why would you leave that psycho alive?

Isaac's death struck me a little more deeply than I thought it would. Apparently he had painted his death and was at peace with it, but he didn't put up a fight? Did he really paint a pic on how to defeat Sylar and stop the bomb? Who did he send it to? Or was it the comic art that he sent out with the carrier? It sucks that Sylar has his ability now.

Mohinder is joining with Bennett's boss? That can't be good. With Mohinder's program and research that will put a lot of heroes in the hands of the shadow cabal.

Nathan appears to be sliding over to the dark side. He appears willing now to allow the bomb to happen to help Linderman and his NWO buddies to get their catalyst to launch Nathan into the White House. Is he that self motivated or just that easily manipulated?

I think Nathan & Pete's mom is the one with powers, not their father. In their conversation Claire said "you're like me" and their was a pointed moment of silence before Mrs Petrelli changed the subject. Her having powers would also explain why she is so involved with the heroes and what is going on.

I thought the part where Bennett is sending his thoughts out to Matt to instruct him on how to break them out was pretty cool. I like seeing Ted learning to control his powers a bit more especially creating an EMP to shut down the power in the building to assist in their breakout. Not sure how realistic it was that he "learned" to do it by taking instructions from Matt who was hearing Bennett's thoughts. *shrugs* I think the three of them will make a pretty potent force in taking down the tracking station and putting the hurt on the cabal. The enemy of my enemy is my friend is certainly apt in this instance. The tracking station is in NYC. That explains how those three get to NYC for the big boom.

I liked seeing Jessica get played too. I am kind of despising her character. Hope Nikki makes it back soon. I agree that Linderman is going to use Micah and his ability with electronics to alter or rig the election in Nathan's favor.

Our Hiro meeting future Hiro was pretty cool. Future Hiro just seems so cool and confident. A lot seems to have changed in him in five years. He is keeping track of the timeline and its divergences with yarn and pics? Seems unconventional, but guess it works for him. Why in Isaac's old studio?

I really like how they are writing Linderman's character. He is evil, but he sees himself as good and doing what he is doing for the good of all mankind. Kind of New World Order type.

I am so loving this show.

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Wednesday, April 25, 2007 3:42 AM

CYBERSNARK

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
And why didn't Mohinder kill Sylar when he was out and helpless on the floor? The man is evil and a cold blooded killer. Why would you leave that psycho alive?

He was in shock from seeing Peter's death, and likely assumed that getting the hell out of there was the best option. It's fully possible that Sylar would've woken up before Mohinder (who was wounded) could have finished him. Destroying the computer and getting Peter away were the fastest options.

Quote:
Mohinder is joining with Bennett's boss? That can't be good. With Mohinder's program and research that will put a lot of heroes in the hands of the shadow cabal.

Unless of course, Bennet succeeds in bringing down that "Weapon X" program.

Quote:
Nathan appears to be sliding over to the dark side. He appears willing now to allow the bomb to happen to help Linderman and his NWO buddies to get their catalyst to launch Nathan into the White House. Is he that self motivated or just that easily manipulated?

I'm not convinved he's playing along. He may be wrestling with the decision, but remember his words to Peter after he came back. I think he'll make the right choice. Also note how quick he is to get Claire and his mother out of the potential blast radius.

Quote:
I thought the part where Bennett is sending his thoughts out to Matt to instruct him on how to break them out was pretty cool. I like seeing Ted learning to control his powers a bit more especially creating an EMP to shut down the power in the building to assist in their breakout.

Heh.
"What's an EMP?"
Idiots.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, April 25, 2007 5:29 AM

DEEPGIRL187

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Nathan appears to be sliding over to the dark side. He appears willing now to allow the bomb to happen to help Linderman and his NWO buddies to get their catalyst to launch Nathan into the White House. Is he that self motivated or just that easily manipulated?

I agree with with Cybersnark here. I think Nathan is really kind of lost right now. I don't think he agrees with Linderman, but considering who this guy is, it's a little overwhelming to take him on. And I enjoyed seeing him mourn Peter. Nathan isn't exactly known for showing a lot of emotion, so it was nice that he was expressing his grief.

Quote:
Our Hiro meeting future Hiro was pretty cool. Future Hiro just seems so cool and confident. A lot seems to have changed in him in five years. He is keeping track of the timeline and its divergences with yarn and pics? Seems unconventional, but guess it works for him. Why in Isaac's old studio?

I think that future Hiro possibly sees Isaac's death as one of his first mistakes, and he set up shop there as a reminder. Maybe Isaac's death is where everything startss to go downhill for the alternate future.

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Wednesday, April 25, 2007 5:32 AM

STEGASAURUS

Quote:
Heh.
"What's an EMP?"
Idiots.

I'm telling you...If Ted isn't one of the Cavemen on the GEICO commercials, he should be.

"How are you? And see? He doesn't say anything. 'Cause he's a doll."

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Wednesday, April 25, 2007 5:46 AM

SWEETSERENDIPITY

Y'all know Ted is really married to Claire's mom, right? And has she had a stroke?

Deb

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Monday, April 30, 2007 8:54 PM

SINGATE

President Sylar certainly has a nice ring to it, that was one of the greatest reveals in TV history. There is one thing I'm confused about. If Sylar didn't already have Claire's healing ability how is it he regenerated when Hiro stabbed him? Must be one of those paradoxes writers box themselves in whenever they mess with time travel.

For the first time on the series I lost some respect for Peter. Seeing him with Jessica made me naseous. I was hoping she would be dead in the future but no it had to be Ando and Micah. I guess we still don't know where Peter gets the scar since that clearly wasn't the result of his battle with Sylar. That wound looked like it may have been made by a sword. How is it he would even have a scar what with him possessing Claire's healing ability? Oh right, in that reality he never saved Claire, yet somehow she was still alive. Damn time travel.

The interactions between the two Hiros and Ando were hysterical. Past Hiro refusing to talk to himself because his future self scared him was too good to be true.

Seeing Peter cut loose with full control of his abilities may have been the highlight of the show. I was a bit confused near the end when he and future Hiro were wary about the Haitian blocking their powers. Hiro I can understand but I didn't think Peter's abilities could be blocked since he should be able to use the Haitian's power as well. Perhaps this is his Achilles heel. Too bad we didn't get to see more the fight at the end. Things literally lookded to be heating up, maybe they blew up the city for a second time.
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Tuesday, May 1, 2007 2:15 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
President Sylar certainly has a nice ring to it, that was one of the greatest reveals in TV history.

I just knew there was something wrong with Nathan. The way he was acting, his flippant attitude towards genocide, his behavior in general were just too dark for Nathan. I could see him acting like that if Peter had died or something along that lines, but not the way they presented it.

Quote:
There is one thing I'm confused about. If Sylar didn't already have Claire's healing ability how is it he regenerated when Hiro stabbed him? Must be one of those paradoxes writers box themselves in whenever they mess with time travel.

You know I didn't even catch that until after the show went off. I was thinking about his reveal and him opening up Claire to take her power and suddenly it dawned on me. Wait, didn't Hiro say that Claire was dead and that Sylar had taken her power to regenerate. Then it occured to me.....Hiro's message from the future to Peter on the subway: "Save the cheerleader, save the world". Peter did save Claire and Mrs Petrelli and Mr Bennett had her hidden so Bennett's employers and Sylar could not find her. Yet saving her did not prevent Sylar from dying when Hiro stabbed him? Why?

So, I thought about it. Did Hiro stab him fatally? Did he stab Sylar at all? Think about it. We know now from future Peter that it was him, not Sylar, that went nuclear in NYC and destroyed part of the city. Could it be that he was going nuclear and was unrecognizable and Hiro stabbed him thinking it was Sylar? Peter has Claire's healing ability so he would not die from such a wound. Could future Hiro had it wrong all along and he was trying to fix the wrong problem?

Quote:
For the first time on the series I lost some respect for Peter. Seeing him with Jessica made me naseous. I was hoping she would be dead in the future but no it had to be Ando and Micah.

Actually he is with Nikki. Jessica appears to be dead, Nikki just uses "Jessica" as her stage name. Remember how Peter tells her in her dressing room that Jessica is dead and when she looks in the mirror the only reflection she sees is her own? Seems Jessica died in NYC too. Not sure how that works since Nikki & Jessica share a body, but there it is.

Also it appears in the future that DL & Nathan are killed by Sylar who took their powers. Could it be that Sylar killed Micah and Ando too?

Quote:
I guess we still don't know where Peter gets the scar since that clearly wasn't the result of his battle with Sylar. That wound looked like it may have been made by a sword. How is it he would even have a scar what with him possessing Claire's healing ability? Oh right, in that reality he never saved Claire, yet somehow she was still alive. Damn time travel.

I am thinking the wound is a sword scar. In my above theory, Hiro strikes Peter with his sword while he is going nuclear, believing it is Sylar. It is my belief that Hiro shows up only after Peter is set to blow thinking it is Sylar and strikes with his sword as his future self instructed him. This results in the wound on Peter's face. We also know Peter survives because he has Claire's ability. It could be that while using one ability he can not use another. I don't recall seeing him use two at once. Could it be that his building up the nuclear power to blow limited or cancelled out his healing ability?

Quote:
The interactions between the two Hiros and Ando were hysterical. Past Hiro refusing to talk to himself because his future self scared him was too good to be true.

Very good writing on the banter between Hiro and Ando. Their interactions are great and as Peter surmised I do believe it is the loss of Ando in NYC that turns Hiro into this darker version of himself.

Quote:
Seeing Peter cut loose with full control of his abilities may have been the highlight of the show. I was a bit confused near the end when he and future Hiro were wary about the Haitian blocking their powers. Hiro I can understand but I didn't think Peter's abilities could be blocked since he should be able to use the Haitian's power as well. Perhaps this is his Achilles heel. Too bad we didn't get to see more the fight at the end. Things literally lookded to be heating up, maybe they blew up the city for a second time.

Does Peter have the Haitian's ability? I don't recall seeing him use it. The Haitian seems to have some sort of ability to reach into a heroes mind and dampen or suppress their powers. He also has the ability to block or blank memories. Not sure how the two are linked. Could it be that Peter simply has never accessed the power. Peter has only been close to the Haitian once, on the rooftop in NYC and then he used his other abilities to stop Bennett's stun gun and fly off with Claude. This again appears to be an instance where one ability prevented him from using another. Could it be that his own power, the ability to absorb others powers, could not be used because he was using another power at the time?

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Tuesday, May 1, 2007 2:22 AM

DEEPGIRL187

There was one thing I was slightly confused about. When Peter and Nikki were talking, they mentioned D.L. and Micah dying in the explosion. But then when Future Hiro went to visit Bennett, he asked for a list of people that included D.L.'s name. So what exactly happened? Why would D.L. go into hiding without taking Nikki (unless she was still Jessica at the time)? Is it possible that Micah wasn't really dead, and D.L. took him away? Lots of ponderables there.

Otherwise, cool episode. Peter and Future Hiro kicked all ass. The only person I was really disappointed with was Matt. Somehow he ended up being the exact opposite of the person he is now. For that matter, most of the Heroes ended up that way.

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Tuesday, May 1, 2007 2:32 AM

FELIXDACAT

Claire was the most glaring paradox/gaffe in the whole episode. If Sylar had her regenitive powers, that means he must have already 'killed' her, 5 years earlier. So, I guess that Sylar doesn't eat the brains, but just looks at them. So then somebody (Bennett?) must have popped her brain back in the pan, poped on the skull and let Claire do the rest. Or it was a big stupid gaffe.
Then if Peter didn't go down to Texas to save the cheerleader, then he doesn't have her regenitive powers and therefore can have scars. It also means that he took a different path in learning his powers, since he would not have survived the fall into the taxi.
Just some loose thoughts...
* Linderman spoke of people that used their powers for personal gain. Could he have been talking about Mr. Petrelli senior? What about Hiro's dad?
* Linderman has the power to heal. Nathan's wife is in a wheelchair. Could this be used as leverage?
* If millions of people dying in a NYC explosion is not enough to get Hiro to focus his power, do you think Ando and his own deaths could finally motivate him? Time should be no concern for him. He can go back in time a few years and just practice.

FX

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Tuesday, May 1, 2007 4:52 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
President Sylar certainly has a nice ring to it, that was one of the greatest reveals in TV history. There is one thing I'm confused about. If Sylar didn't already have Claire's healing ability how is it he regenerated when Hiro stabbed him? Must be one of those paradoxes writers box themselves in whenever they mess with time travel.

Hiro didn’t stab him and Sylar didn’t blow up New York. That was the result of Hiro tampering with the timeline. By having Claire saved from Sylar, he altered the timeline in such a way that it did not prevent the explosion in New York, but changed the person responsible for it. There are two timelines existing simultaneously, which you’re right doesn’t make any sense, but that is the consequence of Hiro meeting himself in the future. It’s a paradox. In Future Hiro’s timeline he stabbed Sylar, but Sylar regenerated because he had killed Claire, but when Hiro went forward 5 years, he was no longer present to stab Sylar, but the timeline had already been changed so Sylar was no longer the threat since Claire was still alive, but the bomb still went off because now Peter was the catalyst, but since Hiro had missed the last 5 years of that timeline he was no longer present to stab peter and ... I’ve gone cross-eyed.

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Tuesday, May 1, 2007 10:38 AM

CYBERSNARK

Exactly. Or, to clarify:

Timeline 1:
-Sylar kills Claire and gains her healing factor.
-Sylar also kills Ted and gains his powers.
-Hiro-1 stabs Sylar, possibly compelled both by the death of Claire and of Ando.
-Sylar regenerates and blows up New York.
-Hiro-1 builds his "timeline" and goes back in time.

Timeline 2:
-Hiro-1 warns Peter to save Claire (thus erasing Timeline 1 from existence).
-Peter prevents Sylar from killing Claire.
-Hiro-2 jumps to the future.
*present*
-Sylar eventually finds and kills Ted.
-Hiro-2 doesn't have the opportunity to kill Sylar (because he doesn't exist at that time).
-Sylar nukes New York.
-Hiro-2 arrives in the future.
-Hiro-1 returns to the future and encounters Hiro-2. Hiro-1 dies. Hiro-2 returns to the present.

Timeline 3:
-Hiro-1 warns Peter to save Claire (thus erasing Timeline 1 from existence).
-Peter prevents Sylar from killing Claire.
-Hiro-2 returns from the future of Timeline 2.
*present*
-Sylar kills Ted and gains his ability.
-Hiro-2 kills Sylar. New York survives.

Relativistically:
-Hiro-1 sees Ando die, tries to kill Sylar, and is foiled by the healing factor.
-Hiro-1 travels back in time to warn Peter, hoping to change the future.
-Hiro-1 returns to the "new" future, and finds that he didn't fix everything.
-Hiro-1 dies after Matt shoots him.

Hiro (or Hiros, I guess) seem(s) to be temporally neutral; meaning that he can change the past and remain unchanged themselves.

Ideally, Hiro-1 would have returned to a "fixed" future, but would still have remembered Timeline 1.

-----
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Tuesday, May 1, 2007 11:06 AM

STEGASAURUS

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
There was one thing I was slightly confused about. When Peter and Nikki were talking, they mentioned D.L. and Micah dying in the explosion. But then when Future Hiro went to visit Bennett, he asked for a list of people that included D.L.'s name. So what exactly happened? Why would D.L. go into hiding without taking Nikki (unless she was still Jessica at the time)? Is it possible that Micah wasn't really dead, and D.L. took him away? Lots of ponderables there.

Remember. Up until Bennet sees Wireless laying dead on the ground, we are led to believe that Matt is just a good guy playing a bad guy. Especially since we know that Bennet has hidden Parkman's family away for him

When we see Wireless, we now know that Matt is truely evil (subjective, to be sure) and it is VERY likely that Matt turned over DL and the others to President Sylar.

Also, lets not forget that Sylar actually acquired Eden's power. Although it was assumed that when Eden blew her head open, Sylar would not get her power, we were enlightened in ".07%" that he DID indeed get her power when he commanded Issac to "SHOW HIM". This may very well be why Matt Parkman is so evil - Sylar "telling" him what he needed to know to turn against his own.

A great episode to be sure!

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Tuesday, May 1, 2007 12:42 PM

DEEPGIRL187

I see your point, but how would Nikki know that he's dead? Unless he faked his death in the blast and then went into hiding.

*sigh*

Time paradoxes give me a headache...

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Tuesday, May 1, 2007 2:41 PM

FREDGIBLET

Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
There is one thing I'm confused about. If Sylar didn't already have Claire's healing ability how is it he regenerated when Hiro stabbed him? Must be one of those paradoxes writers box themselves in whenever they mess with time travel.

He's demonstrated extreme toughness before, shaking off bullets and drugs. In the comics it showed that the bullets do hurt him and he doesn't seem to just regenerate like Claire. I think he's just super-tough like say spider-man, not invincible not regenerating just tough.

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Wednesday, May 2, 2007 1:27 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
There was one thing I was slightly confused about. When Peter and Nikki were talking, they mentioned D.L. and Micah dying in the explosion. But then when Future Hiro went to visit Bennett, he asked for a list of people that included D.L.'s name. So what exactly happened? Why would D.L. go into hiding without taking Nikki (unless she was still Jessica at the time)? Is it possible that Micah wasn't really dead, and D.L. took him away? Lots of ponderables there.

DL is dead. Sylar killed him because we see Sylar use DL's phasing power to reach through the door to grab Peter and pull him into the hallway.

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Wednesday, May 2, 2007 1:30 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

By the way, there is a new Heroes graphic novel up online:

http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/downloads/Heroes_novel_031.pdf

Shows events shortly after the bomb and it explains how Peter and Nikki met.

There are villians at the end with powers and one of them is a speedster. Looks like someone heard us talking.

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Thursday, May 3, 2007 7:38 AM

SINGATE

I've been doing some thinking about how future Hiro has been trying to prevent the explosion. If the explosion is inevitable then he has been attacking the problem from the wrong angle. Trying to kill Sylar didn't work in his timeline because he had the healing ability. Saving Claire didn't stop the disaster instead it shifted who is responsible for the explosion. Maybe he shouldn't be looking for ways to stop the bomb but try to figure out how to prevent the blast from leveling the city. For example, why doesn't he teleport the human bomb away just before he goes critical? Another thing which occured to me is that there are probably people out there who have the ability to absorb energy or create some sort of shield which could contain the blast. It wouldn't hurt to look. Not exploring alternatives appears to have Hiro locked in a loop, continuously trying to figure out what he missed in the past.

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