Battlestar Galactica - RAZOR ( non spoilerish, please ) by AURaptor

OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Battlestar Galactica - RAZOR ( non spoilerish, please )

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Sunday, December 9, 2007 06:05
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4717
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Sunday, November 25, 2007 7:52 AM

America loves a winner!

Didn't see it. I just want a general review from those who did it. Out of 5 Fireflies, 5 being excellent, 1 being ....go se, what did y'all think ?

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 7:55 AM

CHRISISALL

Oh, that part where they located Earth, and Starbuck 'forgot' all about it was a bunch of crap- I don't care if she IS a Cylon, the way they handled it was stupid!

GOT YA!!! Ha ha hah- Just kidding!! Stopped yer heart though, eh??

Very bad man Chrisisall

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 8:07 AM

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN

I'd give it a 4. It was quite good. The ending rocked but will make no sense unless you have seen the show through the end of season 3.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 8:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Oh, that part where they located Earth, and Starbuck 'forgot' all about it was a bunch of crap- I don't care if she IS a Cylon, the way they handled it was stupid!

GOT YA!!! Ha ha hah- Just kidding!! Stopped yer heart though, eh??

Very bad man Chrisisall

May the fleas of a 1000 water bufffalo infest your bikini briefs.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 8:20 AM

PARTICIPANT

My rating : 2 and a half flies out of five

I really don't understand why so many hardcore fans hand out so much praise for this re-imagined Battlestar series, the new show is no longer scifi. The old show was a cheesy dork fest and then this new series was ok for a while until it got sucked into shock jockey episodes and depressing sub plots.

Battlestar was ok for a spell, It was once good, a long long once upon a time ago people liked watching it and it did have well written characters back in Season 1 but it really has lost direction and become rudderless.

Going back to the orginal series raiders was kind of a step backward. I thought the whole point of 're-imagining' the series was to move it forward from Larson's old show. The Razor movie was ok, some bits of it were good but it also had many problems. Mrs Commander Caine is out there commit atrocities and the franchise seems to be re-visiting their earlier Abu Graibh Guantanamo, Abortion episodes that aired a year ago. The movie was badly paced, some of the story seemed like a cut and paste job and at times it was all over the place. At times the movie was just too , it also seemed like a really drawn out episode. The budget could have done with some extra money for the C.G.I Cylons and some of the scenes seemed like they were almost an afterthought. Battlstar Razor - worthing check out if you're bored but I would not be doing a song and dance about it.

The show was ok for a while but now its rudderless, the movie is worth seeing if you've nothing else to watch but I can't believe Skiffy keeps funding this dull series

BSG razor = 2½

If you've missed any episodes the movie is even more difficult to watch, I assume this was mostly for die hard fans of the series

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 8:32 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by participant:

Going back to the orginal series raiders was kind of a step backward. I thought the whole point of 're-imagining' the series was to move it forward from Larson's old show.

But they were just in a few flashbacks, right? And the old Cylons too- you make it sound like the movie was full of them

By your command Chrisisall

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 9:23 AM

CYBERSNARK

Five outta five from me.

It was a glorious love-fest to the 80s series (original Raiders, revamped original Centurians, hybrid basestar, hybrid Colonial pilot uniform, Starbuck quoting the A-Team. . .). There's even an oblique reference to how the original series can still be (sorta) canonical.

Plus Steve Bacic showed up for a random Andromeda reference.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 9:26 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:

It was a glorious love-fest to the 80s series (original Raiders, revamped original Centurians, hybrid basestar,

This is why I must buy it!

By my command Chrisisall

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:46 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

A review here

'Battlestar Galactica: Razor' on Sci Fi
http://www.newsday.com/services/newspaper/printedition/friday/partii/n
y-battlestar5471540nov23,0,5240445.story

Quote:
"Battlestar Galactica: Razor" will, I'm sorry to say, be utterly incomprehensible to story novices. Or casual fans of Sci Fi's intense ethical drama. And maybe even die-hards. I'd like to consider myself one of the last group, yet I found the first half of this two-hour tide-over (until next spring when the acclaimed series' fourth season is scheduled to start) a confusing jumble of flashback time frames, locations, characters and, well, pretty much everything.

Quote:
Of course, I can say all that having watched the first hour of Sci Fi's advance screener of "Razor" three times to figure out what the frak was going on. Maybe, a cynic could think, that's the point. Boost the ratings for Sci Fi's repeat run (late Saturday night at 1 a.m.), and sell a few more of the "Battlestar Galactica: Razor - Unrated Extended Edition" DVD, conveniently hitting shelves Dec. 4.

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 11:50 AM

SINGATE

As much as I have been against the series over the last few seasons I do believe this was well done. If fact with the 3 timelines involved I think it would have been better served by being split into a few different mini-series instead of a single movie. I would love to see more of the first Cylon war as well as the trials and tribulations of the Pegasus crew.

Back to Razor now. I'll give it a solid 4 out of 5. The story was interesting, the throwback to the original series was well done without getting in the way, and the acting was up to the high standard set in the early days of the series. For me Michelle Forbes is the real standout here. She really brought the character to life during her brief stint on the series and once again captures the pure ruthlessness of Caine in Razor. Her charcacter is obviously the dark reflection of Adama. Near the end of the movie he eloquently explains why he couldn't resort to her tactics while still showing her respect.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:28 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
I'll give it a solid 4 out of 5. The story was interesting, the throwback to the original series was well done without getting in the way, and the acting was up to the high standard set in the early days of the series.

Hey Sin- my wife has little patience for the series, yet she liked the mini-series as a stand-alone story. Could she see this or are there too many references to stuff that happened in the show?
Also, is there any really gross bloody stuff?

Gaging for the Missus Chrisisall

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:50 PM

LWAVES

I'd have to give this 4.5 out of 5. There were a couple of bits I felt didn't work but on the whole I really enjoyed this and will eagerly await the DVD release.

Quote:

Going back to the orginal series raiders was kind of a step backward. I thought the whole point of 're-imagining' the series was to move it forward from Larson's old show.

The old Cylons aren't new to the show. They established that they had been around at the start of the mini-series by showing a few diagrams of what they knew Cylon tech to be like. It only makes sense that these Cylons would be them. Personally I thought it was a nice touch to see the old raiders.

Quote:

Hey Sin- my wife has little patience for the series, yet she liked the mini-series as a stand-alone story. Could she see this or are there too many references to stuff that happened in the show?
Also, is there any really gross bloody stuff?

If you haven't seen the Pegasus and follow on episodes from S2 then I don't think this will make a lot of sense. Stuff is referenced in S2 that you get to see in Razor. Also there are references to the end of S3 as well.
I didn't find it particularly bloody, there's no 'inside a raider' type scene with tendrils and innards and stuff.

And only for those that saw the show:

Select to view spoiler:

When the hybrid ship blew up we see a shot of the explosion reflected in Starbucks canopy and then the camera pans across the starfield.
Anyone notice the Big Dipper/Plough constellation?? I thought there were also other stars that seemed to be shining brightly as well but I'm not up on my stars, it's just that the Big Dipper is so easy to spot.
Anyone? or am I being too much of a geek.
If true, then it's definitely a hint that they are closer to Earth.

"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:19 PM

MACBAKER

Overall, I'd give it two and a half stars.

I liked the appearance of the classic Cylons, and the classic style Cylon fighters.

I also liked the flashback sequence of the initial attack, and how the Pegasus survived it. We knew Cain did a blind jump to save the ship, but it was cool to see it.

I didn't like the new character at all. I didn't believe her motivations, and her character was kinda derivative of other characters (Kat, Cain, Gina6 and even Starbuck). I didn't feel like I was meeting someone new. Just another cliche' Ron Moore angry chick. He's been doing those since Ensign Ro was introduced on TNG. Ron, come up with a new female archetype!!! This one is getting tired!

Oh, and how risky to introduce such a flawed character, and then safely suicide her, because she's beyond redemption! WOW Ron, didn't see that coming! BTW: That was sarcasm!

It still didn't answer the biggest question of all! The one fans have waited months for. The issue we all need some closure on!

Why/how did Lee get fat?

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:46 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I'd give it at least a 3-1/2, maybe 4.

I didn't click the link someone posted of a review, but from what was quoted all I can say is if the guy couldn't understand what was going on he is a moron. They gave you captions every time they flashed back or forward, so you knew where and when the action was taking place.

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:50 PM

ASARIAN

I'd give it a solid 4.5 out of 5. It really weren't bad at all. It has been a long great while since I heard a "By your command!" -- that brought back some fond memories. And let's face it, Stephanie Chaves-Jacobsen (Kendra Shaw) is really hot! :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 2:56 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Oh, that part where they located Earth, and Starbuck 'forgot' all about it was a bunch of crap- I don't care if she IS a Cylon, the way they handled it was stupid!

GOT YA!!! Ha ha hah- Just kidding!! Stopped yer heart though, eh??

Very bad man Chrisisall

Uhhhh, DON'T watch the adverts for the next episode in MARCH.

Other than that, the 2-hour Razer was ok, mostly a flashback to just after the Cylon invasion.

The brainwashing was typical, women soldiers and presidents in charge of destruction of the human race. Martial Law is good for you. Obvious metaphor for the nuking of US cities in 2008, to make Baltar Bush Supreme Dictator For Life. Unless the writers strike postpones the coup to 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendi_Deng
Hanoi Hannity: "Outsourcing your job is good for me."
"US ports owned by Commie China is good for me."
"Dead and disabled US soldiers are good for me."
"Sir Rupert dines with Hillary every week."
"Ron Paul does not exist in my 'Verse."

"As far as Chinese goes, I resented it."
-Adam Tudyk, The Making of Firefly

FOX, MYSPACE & FIREFLY OWNED BY COMMUNIST CHINA!
www.piratenews.org/pntv-schedule.html

Does that seem right to you?
Firefly Music Video: Tangerine dream - Confrontation, Thief soundtrack
www.megavideo.com/?v=JVT35GR8
www.scifi.com/onair/

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 3:13 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:

The brainwashing was typical, women soldiers and presidents in charge of destruction of the human race. Martial Law is good for you.

I do find the obvious militarism a bit much at times, but like, that's the show, so, take it or leave it.

Cylonisall

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Sunday, November 25, 2007 4:28 PM

HIXIE129

I thought the show was great and Stephanie Jacobsen is hot! This show was definitely a 5

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Monday, November 26, 2007 8:40 AM

SICKDUDE

I like BSG a lot normally.

That said, Razor was only ho-hum. While it was nice to see things about the Beast they had only mentioned previously, it didn't really bring anything new to the table.

"Your gratuitous jello awaits." - Dr. Helen Magnus, Sanctuary

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Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:44 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

Another review here

Quote:

http://www.film.com/tv/story/spaceoffourwritersoveranalyzebattlestarga
lacticarazor/13982602/17410599
I watched Battlestar Galactica: Razor twice this weekend just so I could have the following over-analytical email exchange with fellow Film.com writer and "Geek Goddess" MaryAnn Johanson.

DM writes: Some said BSG jumped the shark when Pegasus was introduced. Others said it was when they discovered the latest temple. The rest are predicting that last season's ending, with the four Cylons revealed, was the shark-jumping moment. Either way, I think, with *Razor,*BSG somehow jumped backwards over the shark, which may be the first time in history that's happened. Dark, disturbing and just cheesy enough around the edges to be real sci-fi.

MAJ writes: I can't speak to any shark jumping in S2, and I don't think there was a moment in S3 when I thought it jumped. But if a show needed to jump back over the shark, *Razor* is the kind of thing to do it. Dark and disturbing? Yes, hell. The thing that I've come to love about BSG is that it's not afraid to ask hard questions.. and then not answer them. There's not a lot of sci-fi -- and not a lot of pop culture of any genre -- that's willing to be so morally ambiguous. And I think we need that, especially with what's going on in the larger world. I think it's good to be reminded that what's right and what's wrong is not always as cut-and-dried as we'd like to think it is.

Razor was a good show but it is flawed and you can't really compare it to other great scifi movies. The complexity of the new BSG scifi universe will always alienate new scifi viewers. It is not like a Trek movie where you have a general knowledge of Spock or Picard and you can just tune in and watch the latest Trek film. Razor is better than a lot of other Trek movies and scifi movies, but it lacks direction and was kind of pointless you can not compare it to great scifi movies. A lot of the movie dealth with a character we have never seen or heard of before, and never will see again.
I wasn't sure about the old dude in the tub predicting the end of humanity and Starbuck bringing WW3 and the Apocalypse, I suppose he's the hybrid but I missed some episodes when the series was on air.
Adding the classic 80s Cylons was a nice touch but there are things which were a bit unnecessary for example already knew Cain was a psychopath. BSG can be dark, very dark, the overt militarism through the series, the gloom and depression within the characters and Cain ordering degradation on prisoners like Abu Ghraib in Iraq.

The leader of the Pegasus ship was ruthless, a guy comes to her as the voices of reason and humanity only to literally get blown apart by her behaving as if she's some kind of Roman Empress that decimates her disobedient troops (like a lame horse if they don't obey you then shoot them decimazione era uno strumento estremo di disciplina militare). Right now people don't enjoy being spoon militarism, spoon fed politics, but I think in time people will look back on BSG and it will taste differently. During the 60s people didn't want to be spoon fed movies on the Vietnam War, they were already getting enough, news propaganda and they were getting guts n gore on their televisions. In a few years people might be able to look back on it with a different appreciation and mood.

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Tuesday, November 27, 2007 2:28 AM

LWAVES

Quote:
Originally posted by JaynezTown:

I wasn't sure about the old dude in the tub predicting the end of humanity and Starbuck bringing WW3 and the Apocalypse.

I had mentioned this in another post but the old man/hybrid DIDN'T predict the end of humanity. He said something like 'Starbuck will bring the humans to their end. And then he talks about the apocalypse.
He never states what the 'end' is or who the apocalypse is for. I think it's deliberately worded so people will see it that Starbuck will destroy the humans and bring about their apocalypse.
But if you read it another way the 'end' could be the end of the journey (they reach Earth, remembering that Starbuck now claims to know the way, and in some ways this is the end of the Cylon journey as they are looking for Earth too) and the apocalypse refers to the destruction of the Cylons, not the humans.

Guess we'll have to wait and see....

"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:46 AM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by JaynezTown:

Adding the classic 80s Cylons was a nice touch but there are things which were a bit unnecessary for example already knew Cain was a psychopath. BSG can be dark, very dark, the overt militarism through the series, the gloom and depression within the characters and Cain ordering degradation on prisoners like Abu Ghraib in Iraq.

This is true. The whole 'Cain went the way of moral low ground' had already been done (I liked her a lot better as ensign Ro Laren, btw). Including the canabalizing of their own, and the degradation of Nr. 6. As well as the bathtub thingy. Watching Razor, one cannot help but feel: all of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Wednesday, December 5, 2007 5:02 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by JaynezTown:
In a few years people might be able to look back on it with a different appreciation and mood.

Speaking just for myself- I think Razor is the best thing to come out of the new BSG- tight and relatively self-contained, with a great repeat-viewing factor. The classic Cylons added a nostalgic touch, even though they flubbed the voices (Why not just lift some lines from the older series if they couldn't duplicate the voices properly?)
Minor quibbles aside- I LOVED IT!!!

Reverse shark-jump appreciator Chrisisall

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Wednesday, December 5, 2007 2:13 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Just got the DVD yesterday, and watched the 1st half last night. So much gorram cool stuff ! I'll have to watch, and then rewatch to give my full report.

So-say-we-all Raptor

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, December 5, 2007 4:20 PM

N0SKILLZ

I give it about 3.5 outta 5.

It was entertaining enough, i just saw no point to most of it. It was just one big long flashback that only a few scenes really made me excited for season 4. They could have done this with just one episode.

Overall worth the money i spent on it. Enteraining enough, and gave me a few tidbits that got me wicked excited for season 4. Now if only i didn't have to wait until January.

A trailer before the menu on the DVD, totally made my experience complete. White Noise 2 trailer with Katey and Nathan in it.

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Wednesday, December 5, 2007 5:34 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Just got the DVD yesterday, and watched the 1st half last night. So much gorram cool stuff

The second half was even cooler.

Cylonisall

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Wednesday, December 5, 2007 5:34 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by N0Skillz:

A trailer before the menu on the DVD, totally made my experience complete. White Noise 2 trailer with Katey and Nathan in it.

Totally. Chrisisall

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Thursday, December 6, 2007 12:57 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Just got the DVD yesterday, and watched the 1st half last night. So much gorram cool stuff

The second half was even cooler.

Cylonisall

Like I said, I'm gonna re-watch to give my full report, but is it just me , or was the 2nd half a bit slow - action wise ?

By-your-commandAU

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, December 6, 2007 5:21 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
is it just me , or was the 2nd half a bit slow - action wise ?

The pace on it was entirely uneven, but given all the flashbacks and backstory, I think they did a good job anyway. Action died down a bit, but the story held my interest.
Plus: just seein' the gold commander Cylon sitting there in that Raider beat all get-out!

Wing-waggling Chrisisall

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Thursday, December 6, 2007 6:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Ok......saw the gorram disc now, twice. Pretty darn good, but I liked the uncut version better.

Spoiler type questions -

Select to view spoiler:

Are the 2 cylon groups ( Versions 1.0 and 2.0 ) some how in contact ? Toaster Boomer made it seem like they weren't, that the Toaster v. 1.0 had escaped the first war and were on their own evolutionary path. A 'dead end', she said. If so, then how the hell did the old Hybrid know about Major Shaw, and more importantly, about Kara Thrace.

WTF did the Hybrid mean w/ his words about Starbuck? Because he didn't mention anyone else other than 'humanity', I'm forced to assume he meant them when he said 'they' should not follow her. Some say the words are open to interpretation,and that maybe 'they' could refer to the Cylons, v2.0. As in THEY would perish if they followed Kara.....who knows. Still very crypic.

All in all, I give it 3 1/2 Fireflies out of 5. There were just a tad too many slow, drawn out flash back scenes for my likes. Though I do like the minisodes which came on the dvd.

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Friday, December 7, 2007 1:40 AM

LWAVES

In answer to Auraptors post:

Select to view spoiler:

Yeah I thought the Cylon V1 were on their own, cut off from the rest, with the sole purpose of protecting the hybrid.

I figure the hybrid is like the ones that control the basestars, only more so. Deanna thought the stuff they said made some sort of sense, that they were closer to God, and not just spouting gibberish.
I guess the hybrid was similar. Whether you want to believe that it was psychic in some way or had collected information (transmissions or whatever) and had then made some kind of mathematical or logical conclusion, is up to you. I really don't know which way to go.

I posted my view on the cryptic message earlier but that is just my view. It definitely isn't clear cut though. It was more the way it was said, not what was said. The pauses between lines. The tone of its voice.
Of course the message is supposed to be cryptic, like the final five, four of which we are supposed to know and an unknown fifth. Look how many people think the fifth is Starbuck (I don't). It gets people talking and posting about it and that generates interest. Razor may not have been a direct bridge episode to the fourth season but it's got people wanting to see it.

"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Friday, December 7, 2007 2:03 AM

EVERYTHINGSSHINY2K6

4.5 out of 5 for me I loved the the story and the character development but I can see what people mean about the pace being uneven particularly with the three plot lines.

While I liked the flashback to the first cylon war it did seem a bit artifical (the actor who played he young Adama seemed to be doing a really bad impression of Edward James Olmos) but I loved seeing the old style cylon fighters and centurions again mainly cos I used to watch the repeats of TOS Galactica when I was a kid.

A lot of people also keep going on about Starbuck being a Cylon I think I've seen 75% of Galactica episodes at least twice and never got that impression from them. Most of the things that would point to her being a cylon can be explained away by other factors

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Friday, December 7, 2007 3:27 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Oh, and I really like Major Shaw. That accent and her looks are so unique. Wowza!

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, December 7, 2007 3:09 PM

HIXIE129

I'm glad someone else thought that Major Shaw was hot... I had hoped that the DVD would have more scenes of her.

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Sunday, December 9, 2007 6:05 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
In answer to Auraptors post:

Y'know, there really is no answer to AU's questions- too much thought totally undoes the entire Moore saga. Why attack the colonies at all if they have a successful life away from them? Unless they want something, like...uh...what? Are they evil- they say not, and some eps have backed that up- but then- BAM- evils stuff ensues. From pure machines to living organisms? De-evolution? Gimme a gorram break. The original series made more sense.

Just watch it for the cool visuals, and soap opera- scientific thought does not exist here.

So say I all Chrisisall

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