BSG new cylons by PirateCat

I think Baltar will definitely do what you said in the spoilers- he has to.

Predictive Chrisisall

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Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:04 AM

FOLLOWMAL

I agree. Weird- after his story arc-

Edited because with this story... nothing is probable.

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Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:20 AM

PIRATECAT

I've been checkin BSG out on Hula. Make sure any video you download you sweep. Any credit card info on your computer can be stolen. Not to mention those chinese free movies sites cause they like to throw a virus after you watch die hard or something. Cool enjoyed the spoiler.

/

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Sunday, April 13, 2008 2:22 PM

Um, this post may be slightly spoiler-y, but this seems a thread for those who know it all already.

5th cylon? I'm going with Apollo. Just cause he's the only main non-cylon character I have no active reason to suspect. And perhaps his secret cylon-ness is the *real* reason he defended Dumbass the Future Jesus. And the reason he left the military. His "programming" is kicking in, and he has things to do...

*strokes chin, squints eyes, and ponders*

I do like this show. Keeps me guessing.

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Sunday, April 13, 2008 2:58 PM

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I think the final Cylon will be someone who we have seen in the past but who died, either Admiral Cain, Billy Keikaya or Ellen Tigh. If it is someone still living then my most likely suspect is Tom Zarek.

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Monday, April 14, 2008 7:00 AM

I've maintained from the start that Baltar wasn't human:

1. His ability to block out the world and visualize his "happy place" (his house by the lake) is a cylon trait.

2. His survival of the nuke in the pilot episode is unbelieveable and never explained. (recall how he and the #6 embrace as the explosion debris swept into his living room). I believe he "died" at that moment and was reborn in a goo-bath with a subsequent memory wipe of some kind.

3. The Red Dress #6 he sees is a subroutine running in his cylon brain. The #6 that sees images of him is actually experiencing the same thing in reverse. The fact that we just saw that Baltar now sees himself as well shows he has more than one routine running in his head.

My new question regarding Baltar relates to why the #6 he sees wears the red dress. For 2 seasons I thought she was dressing in a manner that would seduce him. But just last week when Baltar saw his own doppleganger I noticed that the psudo-baltar was wearing the same pin stripped suit that he wore when he appeared to the #6 in season 3. So we therefore have a baltar in a formal pin stripe suit and a #6 in a formal red dress ball gown. My question is therefore thus:

What is the occasion?

Do not fear me. Our's is a peaceful race and we must live in harmony.

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Monday, April 14, 2008 7:05 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:

2. His survival of the nuke in the pilot episode is unbelieveable and never explained. (recall how he and the #6 embrace as the explosion debris swept into his living room). I believe he "died" at that moment and was reborn in a goo-bath with a subsequent memory wipe of some kind.

Baltar's house was far away from the actual bombings, and there were plenty of other survivors left of Caprica after the attack. His embrace with Six allowed her to sheild him fropm the debris of the shattered windows.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, April 14, 2008 7:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

Baltar's house was far away from the actual bombings, and there were plenty of other survivors left of Caprica after the attack. His embrace with Six allowed her to sheild him fropm the debris of the shattered windows.

I've thought about that before as well, but honestly I've seen real explosions up close and with the voice of a quasi-expert I maintain that the force of the debris entering the house would destroy human flesh. Baltar should have died. There was more going on in that sequence than simply being pelted with shattered glass. I agree that there were plenty of caprica survivors. I describe those folks as the lucky ones who didn't experience a bomb detonating near them. Baltar's lakeside cottage was in an unlucky location.

To be fair though, I will go home tonight and re-watch those scenes in the pilot episode. I'm currently typing this and working off my memory, which isn't exactly fresh in terms of BSG Season 1.

Do not fear me. Our's is a peaceful race and we must live in harmony.

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Monday, April 14, 2008 7:49 AM

STORYMARK

The debris was directional, and Baltar was behind Six, who took the brunt of the force, and she did die.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, April 14, 2008 9:33 AM

I always figured the blast was from far across the lake - the bright flash that made Baltar yelp like a little girl. When the shockwave arrived some time later, it was destructive but not un-survive-able, especially not with a super-engineered Cylon standing in the way. That's always been my take when I see the scene, anyway.

I'm not saying Gaius isn't a cylon. That's always been a lurking possibility, with his connection to the Six and all. It's just too obvious though, which is the main reason I think it'll be someone else. Writers like to be clever. Well, the BSG writers like to be clever - I can't say that about much else on TV.

I like the suggestion that it's Tom Zarek. That could be fun - just because the actor used to be Starbuck. It'd be like a second level of irony...

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Monday, April 14, 2008 10:53 AM

I'm going to re-watch the entire sequence tonight and think on it. In the meantime, here's David Letterman's top 10 list for BG. Line items 6 & 5, oh so funny.

Do not fear me. Our's is a peaceful race and we must live in harmony.

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Monday, April 14, 2008 11:08 AM

BLUEMOONSTUFF

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
I'm going to re-watch the entire sequence tonight and think on it. In the meantime, here's David Letterman's top 10 list for BG. Line items 6 & 5, oh so funny.

Do not fear me. Our's is a peaceful race and we must live in harmony.

FRAKIN' GREAT! And yes, five and six quite amusing.

BMS

An Original Browncoat - Member since September 20, 2002

Wearables • Writeables • Stickables
Fancible shiny goods made by a Browncoat for Browncoats
http://www.bluemoonstuff.com/Firefly_Serenity/fireflyserenity.html

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Monday, April 14, 2008 11:19 AM

LWAVES

Funny, and they got all the main cast there. That must have taken some doing.
Strange hearing Jamie as Apollo (sorta in character) speaking with his natural English accent.

"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Monday, April 14, 2008 1:34 PM

CYBERSNARK

Funnier than the entire series so far.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, April 14, 2008 1:55 PM

WASHSYOUNGERSEXIERBR

Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges

ok heres my 2 cents on whats happening and stuff

Select to view spoiler:

Top 2 candidates for Cylon IMO are starbuck and baltar.

For starbuck this miraculous coming back from the dead combined with her drawings as a kid and the leonis guy saying shes done this all before. It screams "hey look at me im actually a robot". But because its so obvious it makes me doubt it

Baltar his imaginary friend is a big cylon arrow especially as caprica 6 has a similar one of him. And also have you seen how much he looks like jesus? and now hes preaching about a one true god and doing spirit healings.

Now heres the wild card idea. We know the 4 cylons on galatica were activated and the 5th is also onboard, so what if the 5th knows their a cylon and activated the rest of em.

My wild card idea is Mr gaida. That sweet little guy who runs around the bridge but never quite gets involved anywhere. He's also the one plotting the path to earth and he was presidential assistant on new caprica. So far theyve placed the secret cylons in key places so he is an obvious choice.

www.myspace.com/didxl

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Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
The debris was directional, and Baltar was behind Six, who took the brunt of the force, and she did die.

I watched this sequence several times yesterday. This is what I determined.

1. Baltar lived near Caprica City, the seat of government. Adama says later in the episode over the Glacatica Com that Caprica City was destroyed by a nuke scaled in the 50 megaton range. Reference this wikipedia article for TNT-equilivent destructive forces: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaton While there is no proof that the flash that burned Baltar's eyes was the same nuke dropped on Caprica City, I surmise that the bombardment was generally the same and using 50 megatons as a benchmark is valid.

2. Baltar saw the flash, screamed like a little girl, and covered his eyes. From that point there is a 24 second count to the arrival of the blast shock. Refer back to the wiki article on explosion destruction scales then cross reference it with this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nuclear_explosions

The diagram on this page illustrates that "complete destruction" was achieved for a 1 mile radius of the 1945 Hiroshima bombing. That was a 15 kiloton bomb. Think then what a 50 MEGAton bomb yields. The shockwave from these type of blasts move at about mach 1, or 760mph. A calculation based on the 24-count (flash to shockwave) yields a distance of roughly 5 miles. That distance seems right when I watch Baltar scream from the flash.

For a wimpy Hiroshima scale nuke I'd say Baltar would have been fine. But Adama said that the cylons were using Megaton nukes (appropriate if you're attempting genocide). Just 1 Megaton places Baltar in grave danger if one references the nuke scale chart. My calculations indicate he's dust at 5 megatons. Even 1 megaton wipes out his house and more than likely kills him. If 50 megatons is the average...the point becomes seriously moot. However, if one should wish to entertain ideas of what a 50megaton blast would look like, the soviets actually set one off in 1961 to scare the western powers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba If there was ever a reason Nuke's should be pulled from warfare, this is it.

I know I've over-geeked this subject. I'm told I do it too much. It's one reason why I like Firefly. All the real-world aspects of the 'verse make sense and it's soothing to me to watch the poetry of the firefly stories interwoven with real-world accuracy.

Final analysis: Baltar was toast. He reawoke in a goo-bath and was set loose to eventually encounter refugees and thus, Helo & Boomer's raptor. He has no memory of being reborn and the #6 we start to see as he takes off from Caprica is the program running in his head. I have no allusions that my analysis above was considered by writers when the pilot was written, and if Baltar ends up being a human I won't be suprised.

Do not fear me. Our's is a peaceful race and we must live in harmony.

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Wednesday, April 16, 2008 6:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

I like the suggestion that it's Tom Zarek. That could be fun - just because the actor used to be Starbuck. It'd be like a second level of irony...

Actually, he used to be Apollo, but the point stands.

Classic Chrisisall

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Wednesday, April 16, 2008 7:54 AM

DERANGEDMILK

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
I think the final Cylon will be someone who we have seen in the past but who died, either Admiral Cain, Billy Keikaya or Ellen Tigh. If it is someone still living then my most likely suspect is Tom Zarek.

I'm sticking by my prediction back from season two that Billy is a Cylon. Why? Because when they found the tomb of Athena and the roadmap to Earth there were five people there. The four main characters: Apollo, Starbuck, Adama, and Roslin and then...Billy. Guess who died about an episode later. Billy. Why? Because it was more useful for him to go tell the Cylons about the map to Earth so they could keep following the humans than it was for him to stay by the president.

Billy is number five.
-e

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"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Wednesday, April 16, 2008 7:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Actually, he used to be Apollo, but the point stands.

Really? Oh, you're so right! Thanks for the correction - I never could watch much of the old BSG. I have tried! It's just too cheesy for my (sort of) young eyes.

BSCMan - Excellent deductions! Makes my science lobe pulsate happily LOL! My niggle is the same as yours: I doubt the show writers planned the 24 seconds to be scientifically precise. Probably had more to do with timing the dialogue and fitting the attention span of the viewers...

But here's a bigger niggle - I assume you're picturing Baltar waking up in a goo bath surrounded by the 7 bad cylons, since they "implant" the #6 hallucination in his head. But don't they not know who the 5 are? Why would they work so hard to manipulate him if they knew he was a programmable cylon?

And why leave the newly minted Baltar in a field? There wasn't much chance that he'd get on the transport. That was very lucky, that Helo recognized him and gave up the spot. It was lucky that Helo and Sharon were there at all! That couldn't have been planned by the cylons.

Which leads to what I see as possible weaknesses in BSG - I think the writers might go where they want without answering these kinds of questions. Like Chrisisall, I worry that the many dangling threads they've left over all the seasons have no tie-ups planned. That would ruin many things for me, no doubt. (Kind of like the end of the Dark Tower books...)

ETA: derangedmilk - I like it!

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Wednesday, April 16, 2008 7:55 AM

DERANGEDMILK

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

I like the suggestion that it's Tom Zarek. That could be fun - just because the actor used to be Starbuck. It'd be like a second level of irony...

Actually, he used to be Apollo, but the point stands.

It'd be pretty funny if Dirk Benedict came out of nowhere as cylon number 12, too. I know the writer's talked about using him in the past but didn't know how.
-e

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"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Friday, April 18, 2008 8:59 AM

GRIZWALD

Select to view spoiler:

After watching today's episode, I am convinced: The final Cylon is Starbuck. No, wait, it's Admiral Adama. No, it's Starbuck.

No, I'm sure this time, it's the Admiral.

And Dirk Benedict would never come to this show, he hates it.

___________________________________________________
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Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

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Friday, April 18, 2008 9:05 AM

PARTICIPANT

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Friday, April 18, 2008 9:05 AM

PARTICIPANT

ratings dropped

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Friday, April 18, 2008 5:10 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Wow. Didn't see that comin'.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:17 AM

LWAVES

I can put up with ghosts, goblins, were-rabbits, reavers and all things that go bump in the night....

But people with graphs and charts scare me...

And where are your sources for this information?
Anyone can post a graph showing what they want. I'm not certain but I think I've read that some of the later season episodes ranked higher then the first season.

"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Saturday, April 19, 2008 4:20 AM

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

There is someone else that I haven't thought about for a while, and when I originally speculated about him being a Cylon I don't think there was anyone who agreed with me.

Select to view spoiler:

The air-locking of Cally last night reminded me of it.

I believe it was in Season 3, Episode 2, "Precipice," when Duck suicide-bombed the NCP graduation ceremony. Jammer was standing directly behind him in the reception line, so there is very little chance he would have survived. And yet he is still around after that, and is the one who cuts Cally's bonds and tells her to run at the end of "Exodus, Part 1." Then he is the first one air-locked by the tribunal in "Collaborators."

He would certainly fit if RDM can be believed that the final one will not be one of the major characters under speculation.

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Saturday, April 19, 2008 7:55 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
I think the final Cylon will be someone who we have seen in the past but who died, either Admiral Cain, Billy Keikaya or Ellen Tigh. If it is someone still living then my most likely suspect is Tom Zarek.

Me, I'm hoping for ole Badger to make a return

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

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Saturday, April 19, 2008 12:53 PM

participant, you make me laugh! Really - what's your point? If we were the kind of people who said - oh, that show has bad ratings, it must be bad! - we wouldn't be Firefly fans.

So, you must think Mariah Carey's the BEST, given how many records she sells.

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Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:

Select to view spoiler:
The air-locking of Cally last night reminded me of it.

Really? That happened? Gee, I never expected that. Like I don't expect

Select to view spoiler:

the Galactica to be destroyed before the end, and Baltar to die, and that they find Earth in a B.C. state, and that THEY are the ones that end up building the Pyramids...

Go ahead Ec, make fun of SGA & Dark Angel- you know you want to....

Evil troublemakin' Chrisisall

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Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:21 PM

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Go ahead Ec, make fun of SGA & Dark Angel- you know you want to....

Nope, ain't gonna play that game anymore. I'll leave the trolling posts to you.

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Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:36 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Wow. Didn't see that comin'.

I meant the last episode, and all that went down. Not the graph posts above. Pardon for any confusion.

Select to view spoiler:

Cally being jettisoned like space junk was wicked cruel. I hated it, as she was one of my fav characters. Dammit. But it makes for great t.v., I'll give that.
And as for the Cylon civil war, wow! " They started it ". Hee hee. Many saw this comin', but still, it was cool how it's played out.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, April 20, 2008 4:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:

Nope, ain't gonna play that game anymore.

Really?

Then I have no choice but to admit that BSG, while not my thing, is good TV....

Former troll Chrisisall

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Sunday, April 20, 2008 12:49 PM

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Thanks for that concession, Chris. As I have stated a couple of times I do not hate SGA, it's just too repetitive for my tastes, with too much technobabble and deus ex machina scenarios. It does beat the hell out of crap like Painkiller Jane and Flash Gordon though, but it is not as good as Dark Angel. I doubt I would put DA in my top 10 favorite SF shows (I would for BSG), but it would be in the upper half of the second group of 10. I may regret selling my dvds some day, but due to the weak second season I didn't think I would be wanting to watch it again any time soon.

And of course you realize that anything you or I say here is merely opinion, neither being any more valid than the other, except to ourselves.

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Sunday, April 20, 2008 12:57 PM