Star Wars for the next generation by khambilo

ANH, ESB, and RotJ, and then I'd introduce them to the Expanded Universe. If they're interested in the prequel-era, they can read the novelizations.

Also the Ewok movies (Caravan of Courage and Battle for Endor), the two Clone Wars cartoons, and Droids and Ewoks if they ever get a full-series DVD release.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 4:58 AM

Expired, forgotten, spoiled rotten.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
IV, V, VI and then I'll tell them that the prequels were unofficial and made by executive scum. Hopefully they'll never watch them.

Yes, but I'd make sure the original trilogy was in fact the original trilogy.

SOLO SHOT FIRST!

------------------------
I pray for one last landing,
on the globe that gave me birth.
Let me rest my eyes on the fleecy skies
and the cool, green hills of Earth.

http://www.blogiversity.org/blogs/dmi/default.aspx

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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 5:50 AM

STORYMARK

I'd start with the originals, then show 'em the prequels - 'cuz kids actually enjoy them too, and don't have the nostalgia for the old ones that ruin the prequels for many.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 7:29 AM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by DMI:

SOLO SHOT FIRST!

It's funny Solo shot first. Then Greedo shot first(1997). Then They both shot each other at the same time(2004 updated Special edition). Maybe the next updated version will just have Han shooting first again

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70's TV FOREVER

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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 3:28 PM

KHAMBILO

I'd have to agree with what a lot has been said here.

Start with the originals so that they can gain an appreciation for them, maybe even the versions that contain the original theater version of the films (without the special edition extra effects), then show them the new trilogy.

Not that they new trilogy was a total loss. For children they'd be entertaining, at least, but I feel if they saw the new trilogy they wouldn't be able to appreciate the old trilogy, the computer generated effects being the chief culprit here.

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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 3:44 PM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb

I'm right there with Zeek and Deranged Milk Inc.

Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
To then have it all explained took away that magic to some degree.

When in the Hells did the prequels ever explain anything?

Why are the Jedi and Darksides (I'm NOT calling them Sith) fighting? No, “We’ve always been at war” is not an answer.

Who exactly ordered the clones?

In order to give the plot the *illusion* of depth, they (Lucas and the ‘yes’ people) just made it confusing and senseless. What ever explanations they did give - I'm trying to put this as eloquently as I can - they just sucked.

-----
WELL MANICURED MAN: Mr Mulder, I've given you so much this evening, you offered me next to nothing in return.

MULDER: You haven't told me anything I didn't already know.

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 5:52 PM

Expired, forgotten, spoiled rotten.

Quote:
Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
Deranged Milk Inc.

LMAO! That tickles me so much. Not that it matters at all but it was supposed to be derangedmilk incognito. Not that it matters at all, I just lost the original handle. But seeing as I'm not really hiding, maybe DM Inc. is good too. Or if I lose this one I'll go with DME: derangedmilk esquire.

Anyway, one thing they explained in the prequels that ruined the magic was the whole metacholreine thing. It was just so star trek of them to make up some bs science to devalue the faith base of a super natural power. Shame!

------------------------
I pray for one last landing,
on the globe that gave me birth.
Let me rest my eyes on the fleecy skies
and the cool, green hills of Earth.

http://www.blogiversity.org/blogs/dmi/default.aspx

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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 7:20 PM

HKCAVALIER

Oh my gawd,

Revenge of the Sith was on tv the other night and I managed to watch about 7 minutes before Anakin started whining to Palpatine, "I'll...I'll do...anything you say...just don't let...Padme...die!"

Yeah, Darth Vader, the biggest badass the universe has ever seen, went over to the dark side because his girlfriend got sick and died. Yeah, that explains everything.

Hopefully, the next gen can skip ep's I-III in favor of playing KOTOR and SW:TOR--that's gonna be the real Star Wars to them--the old movies are gonna be hokey and quaint like Buck Rogers is to us...

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 7:57 PM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb

Quote:
Originally posted by DMI:
Quote:
Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
Deranged Milk Inc.

LMAO! That tickles me so much. Not that it matters at all but it was supposed to be derangedmilk incognito.

Well, if you abbreviate 'incognito', it makes sense.

Quote:

Anyway, one thing they explained in the prequels that ruined the magic was the whole metacholreine thing. It was just so star trek of them to make up some bs science to devalue the faith base of a super natural power. Shame!

Damn straight.

Metachlorians made the Force some genetic "Divine Right", instead of about freeing your mind and getting intouch with your feelings. Supposed to be one of those "If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything" things.

Conceived by metachlorians. BWAHHAHAHAAHAHAAA!!!

After 20+ years of waiting for new SW movies (Only 5 yrs for me. Didn't discover SW till 1995.), the story is carp (sic).

Ditto with Indy 4

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Tuesday, May 4, 2010 11:17 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

A) I,II and III; then the prequels.

or

B) What Zeek said

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Hmmmmmm, tough choice............................

I'm gonna go with B, what Zeek said.

SGG

Tawabawho?

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 3:46 AM

JONGSSTRAW

I don't really get the "Greedo shot" thing. In the original, original Star Wars he clearly had his gun out and pointing at Solo when he forced Solo back into the cantina to sit down at the table. And while they were talking Greedo kept his gun trained on Solo. If Solo fired first, or Greedo fired first really doesn't matter, because Greedo initiated the deadly action by holding Solo at gunpoint in the first place.

As for future viewings, I think a person must watch 4,5,6 first. Those are great movies, and as someone above said previously, they created a lot of mystery and suspense about many aspects of the "verse" of the film. 1,2, & 3 strip away the mystery in the most predicatbale and pedestrian ways possible, therefore completely ruining the overall experience.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 4:34 AM

Expired, forgotten, spoiled rotten.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I don't really get the "Greedo shot" thing. In the original, original Star Wars he clearly had his gun out and pointing at Solo when he forced Solo back into the cantina to sit down at the table. And while they were talking Greedo kept his gun trained on Solo. If Solo fired first, or Greedo fired first really doesn't matter, because Greedo initiated the deadly action by holding Solo at gunpoint in the first place.

In the original, Greedo doesn't fire at all, Solo just wastes him. In the special addition, Lucas edited in Greedo shooting first/at the same time because he didn't want Solo to be viewed as a murderer but instead wanted him to just be defending himself. My problem is, it makes Solo less badass. It'd be like Whedon going back to do a special edition cut of firefly and editing it so that Dobson shoots at Mal instead of Mal just no-nonsense putting a bullet in his head because he doen't have time for Dobson's crap anymore.

------------------------
I pray for one last landing,
on the globe that gave me birth.
Let me rest my eyes on the fleecy skies
and the cool, green hills of Earth.

http://www.blogiversity.org/blogs/dmi/default.aspx

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 5:01 AM

And Han's whole arc in the trilogy was that he was murderous, drug-running, criminal scum when we first meet him --his exposure to Luke and Leia changes him. That's the whole point of an arc.

Quote:
Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
When in the Hells did the prequels ever explain anything?

When they explicitly identified Anakin Skywalker as Darth Vader and confirmed that Darth Vader is the father of both Luke and Leia.

The whole narrative of the original trilogy hinges on those two revelations --there's a reason why That Scene in ESB is one of the most famous scenes in all of cinema. It has to come completely out of the blue, yet make perfect sense only in hindsight, and it raises the stakes to a personal level for Luke (it's not just about killing a monster, it's about identifying with the "monster" and realizing that he has that same potential within himself).

By making it explicit, the prequels actually manage to rob the OT of that dramatic impact.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 5:49 AM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
When they explicitly identified Anakin Skywalker as Darth Vader and confirmed that Darth Vader is the father of both Luke and Leia.

*Y-wing port engine gets stunned/disabled*

Ok, that's a pretty huge thing, if you're starting with E1. (Well, I DID ask a question.)

Damn, that's a tough thing to fix for when I make my version of the prequels.

Hmmm....

Maybe the "two fathers, one son" thing, where Obi-Wan or Anakin could be the father, but we don't find out until later.

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 5:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by khambilo:
When Episode III came out in 2005, this became the first generation that could watch the Star Wars saga chronologically. The question is though what order will you show the Star Wars films to your children? IV, V, V, I, II, II like you did? Or in chronological order?

Well I don't have kids yet, but my nephews are well into it. They don't have the hang-ups about the prequels like we do, so when/if I do have kids I'll be showing them in order and if the Clone Wars are done by then I'll put those in the mix too as they are great.

I think people have gone way over the top as regards episode I, II and III. They're not that bad and y'know really they're just films.

Would you like to see some cartoons? http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 6:36 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by DMI:

In the original, Greedo doesn't fire at all, Solo just wastes him.

Solo shoots because Greedo is pointing a gun at him. Even though Greedo never "fired", the act of pointing a gun at someone is justification for shooting him in self-defense anyway. There was no need for Lucas to redo it so that Solo would be acting in self-defense, he already was acting in self-defense when he shot Greedo in the original version.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 6:48 AM

SHINYGOODGUY

You hit it right on the head DMI. The whole concept of Solo is that he's a fly-by-the-seat-of-his-pants kind of guy, rough and tumble. My guess is that he's an orphan (which the movie never goes into) who raised himself and has street smarts.

Survival of the fittest isall. He is the original sci-fi badass, he was the rebel with one cause - "what's in it for me." It made sense, also I don't remember there being a public outcry about Han shooting first, so yeah it made him a badass.

Plus it gave his change of heart and returning to help Luke more weight (although you could see it coming it didn't really matter because that's what good guys do). By Lucas changing that scene it just adds to my sentiment that he's lost his freaking mind. He's such a micromanager (perhaps in the beginning that's what made him achieve such a feat - Star Wars - when the odds were against him).

His attention to detail is pretty evident in the extras, or special features, in his DVD releases. It's what drove him to begin with, but he later (Episodes 1,2 & 3) allowed it to consume him and his end product suffered for it.
Hence going back and having Creedo shoot at Han, which just totally sucks the life out of his character and changes the landscape. Another hence is that it also sucked the life out of the prequel triliogy.

Don't get me wrong, I wanted to love the prequels and was genuinely excited (like waiting to open your presents at Christmas). So imagine my disappointment at Jar-Jar. Lucas overthought the trilogy and didn't have fun with it, consequently the movies were self indulgent and too self aware. It took itself too seriously.
Scenes that were meant to be funny just laid there, and scenes that were meant to be serious - well, were unintentionally funny. "Did he really just say that."

How many times did you here the phrase "I have a bad feeling about this." To me 4,5, & 6 are near masterpieces becuase it was fun as well as kick-ass.

Good point about the Captain's reaction to Dobbs. "I ain't got time for this shit" - BANG!
There's no doubt who's in charge plus we get that he's a might "tetched" in the head. He's Han Solo 2.0, a newer, more improved model of the badass good guy. The unpredictable rebel who lost his way and found it (but why, oh why kill Book?) in Serenity.

OMG I just realized something. Mal both lost and found his way in Serenity. Well technically he lost it in Serenity Valley and found it in Serenity - with his new unit, the crew. I never got that until now. I LOVE THIS SITE!

Thanks for letting me "bend your ear" guys.

SGG

Tawabawho?

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 7:09 AM

KHAMBILO

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

I think people have gone way over the top as regards episode I, II and III. They're not that bad and y'know really they're just films.

My thoughts exactly.

Though could it be that people are just really critical about them because they have the Star Wars name? And can a prequel film for any franchise be as good as the original? It seems to me that this sort of thing goes on all the time, but maybe because the originals were so good and developed such a large fan base the new trilogy films were judged more harshly then the average prequel film.

And on anther note, give it 10-15 years and this debate will look much different. The kids that have grown up on the new trilogy have been captivated by it like those of us who grew up on the original trilogy, which leads me to believe that a generational gap effects how we perceive the films quality. (For instance, I don't have kids yet, but I am afraid that they would find the original series boring because they have too much dialogue, especially ESB and ROTJ.) And when this generation grows up and has children of their own, will they be more eager to spread the new trilogy over the old? I'm probably thinking way too far ahead...

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 7:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

I think people have gone way over the top as regards episode I, II and III. They're not that bad and y'know really they're just films.

Som! Don't give in to the Prequels- that leads to the Dark Side!!!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 7:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
When in the Hells did the prequels ever explain anything?

Precisely.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 7:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
You hit it right on the head DMI. The whole concept of Solo is that he's a fly-by-the-seat-of-his-pants kind of guy, rough and tumble. My guess is that he's an orphan (which the movie never goes into) who raised himself and has street smarts.

Well, according to the EU, he grew up on a pirate ship after being "adopted" by the Wookiee ship's cook (so yeah, if his parents were alive he didn't know them). Eventually he joined the Imperial Academy to be a TIE pilot (just like Luke wanted to do), but he got cashiered when he rescued a Wookiee slave and the two turned to smuggling to make ends meet.

Quote:
Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
Ok, that's a pretty huge thing, if you're starting with E1. (Well, I DID ask a question.)

Damn, that's a tough thing to fix for when I make my version of the prequels.

Hmmm....

Maybe the "two fathers, one son" thing, where Obi-Wan or Anakin could be the father, but we don't find out until later.

Well, my approach ( http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=8&t=16704) was to just not have Anakin renamed --he remains "Anakin Skywalker" until Mustafar, and we never see the rescue (and leave a few red herrings who could've been Vader --especially another Padawan for Obi-Wan [who mentioned having trained Vader], who could be seen as having contributed to Anakin's death ["Vader betrayed and murdered your father"]). When Palpatine greets Lord Vader, Vader mentions nothing about Padme --he lives only to serve his Master.

(Better still to let Anakin sacrifice himself for Obi-Wan, Padme, and his child; Anakin shall be remembered as a hero. Let Darth Vader be a new person, one without kindness, or mercy, or weakness, or hope. . . But for that tiny bit of Anakin that survives, in silence, hoping that his family escaped and will never be found.)

As for the kids, just have the birth (and Padme's death) offscreen; we know that Luke is Anakin's son, and the other could just be a female pronoun:

OBI-WAN:
Let me take Anakin's son. I'll find a place for him to escape the Sith's notice.

YODA:
And what of the other?

BAIL:
I'll take her to Alderaan. She'll be safe in my House.

The audience can assume that he means Padme. Years later, when we meet Leia Organa, we'll assume she's at most Luke's half-sister (that Bail and Padme grew closer).

The midichlorians can actually be a plot point if you approach them right: there's a correspondence, not causality (high midichlorians indicate Force-sensitivity, but don't cause it). There's room for there to be Force-users without high midichlorian counts, meaning that they would slip through the Jedi/Republic's screening process (you can scan for midichlorians, you can't scan for Force-sensitivity). Entire bloodlines of Force-users, left out of the Jedis' ivory temple, left to fend for themselves, learn for themselves, seek power for themselves. . .

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 8:31 AM

BYTEMITE

A few thoughts.

Sith: Why not? Vader has been referred to as a Sith canonically since the original trilogy. Sith and Jedi, they're both slightly odd made up words, why's one better than the other?

Han Shot First: Yep

ESB: Knowing that Vader IS Anakin Skywalker could actually increase dramatic tension, you know, "oh no, he's going to tell him! If Luke finds out, will he be able to resist?" It might not be the shock the people who saw the OT got, but that doesn't mean it's dramatic value is lessened. I prefer it the other way though.

Midichlorians: Bah, don't really care. It's a dumb name for it, I grant you, and unnecessary, but there's ALWAYS been suggestions that the Force runs in families, it was always supposed to be a genetic thing. Also, what with that whole can't marry/can't fall in love thing, it was pretty hard to keep bloodlines going.

That's where the Sith philosophy kind of had an advantage, they had no taboo about that. The Sith only have two Lords, who are taught by the previous two lords, all the way back to the first non-Sith who received the teachings from the Sith-species. But otherwise Sith is a school of thought and there's many practicers and covens who were probably out reproducing the Jedi, so the Jedi would go out and hunt them.

Apparently that whole restoring balance to the Force thing was to actually make it okay for Jedi to have families and be freer with affection and feelings, which is that Luke teaches at his new academy, and that gives the Sith less of an issue to gripe about.

Which trilogy I'd show first? Well, I do prefer the original trilogy, and don't like the prequels. But I think maybe I'd show the prequels. Though I'd edit out

1) the really badly done dream visions, since it's better to just show the reactions (like Obi Wan in the OT: "A disturbance in the Force")

2) the really bad romance lines (the scenes aren't bad, like that rolling in the grass one, but the dialogue is just dreadful)

3) probably stop the 3rd movie just after Anakin and Mace Windu head out to arrest Palpatine. That way it seems like the team failed to defeat Palpatine, was killed, and Anakin was maybe betrayed by Mace Windu. Or that General Grievous lives and eventually becomes Vader. That would be a good mislead for the ESB revelation. It unfortunately results in the loss of the Godfather-esque kill sequence, but at least it removes the craptacular birthing scene and keeps all the good secrets secret. It also allows Mace Windu to remain a badass, instead of the horribly pathetic shrieking death-by-falling he got.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 8:34 AM

Expired, forgotten, spoiled rotten.

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

I think people have gone way over the top as regards episode I, II and III. They're not that bad and y'know really they're just films.

I was eating lunch in my freshmen dorm cafeteria with all the other nerds of that hall, talking about star wars so as, if nothing else, to prevent the nerdy RA from babbling about Grace Park (this was when BSG just started), when this kid says the original trilogy is boring. Of course, this angers us all, but not as much as when he says he couldn't even get through them. Come to find out, he fell asleep during IV and never watched V or VI. His alleged love of stars stems solely from the prequels.

You might think I told this story to illustrate how some people love the prequels as much as the most of us love the originals. But I did not. After he left the entire table vowed never to speak to him again and we didn't.

It's a morality tale against liking and defending garbage.

------------------------
I pray for one last landing,
on the globe that gave me birth.
Let me rest my eyes on the fleecy skies
and the cool, green hills of Earth.

http://www.blogiversity.org/blogs/dmi/default.aspx

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 8:53 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

I think people have gone way over the top as regards episode I, II and III.

Absolutely agree. Just look at some complaints here - complaints about character choices which are entirely human and consistent with their characters - but not COOL. People seem to hate the prequels as often as not for not delivering the films they spent 20 years imagining. Problem is - everyone imagined a different set of films, so there was no way to EVER meet those expectations.

People also tend to put the originals on a pedestal. Even Ford and Guiness complained about the hackneyed dialog in the original. Empire - now regarded as the best of the franchise, is the lowest grossing of the entire series, and received poor reviews at the time. And Jedi is a kiddiefied toy commercial/semi-remake of the first.

But since (the collective) we saw them as kids, and bonded to them - they will forever be superior. But kids who saw the Prequels first, love them just as much as we love the originals. You can never truly go back and view something through the eyes of a child again - and the biggest complainers don't get that.

That said - the prequels DO have some serious problems - mostly on the script level, because when it comes down to it, and by his own admission, Lucas is an idea man - and not much of a writer. But they're hardly the crimes against humanity some like to make them out to be.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 9:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DMI:

It's a morality tale against liking and defending garbage.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 9:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

I think people have gone way over the top as regards episode I, II and III. They're not that bad and y'know really they're just films.

Som! Don't give in to the Prequels- that leads to the Dark Side!!!

The laughing Chrisisall

Would you like to see some cartoons? http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 9:18 AM

YELLOWJACKET

My brother showed his kids all of them in order, but ever since then they won't watch anything but IV-VI.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 9:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

That said - the prequels DO have some serious problems - mostly on the script level, because when it comes down to it, and by his own admission, Lucas is an idea man - and not much of a writer. But they're hardly the crimes against humanity some like to make them out to be.

My 11 year old Son says he likes I (but he never watches it anymore), he likes II ( watches it like once a year now), doesn't want to see III, yet still asks to see IV, V, & VI on a regular basis.

Just sayin' isall.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 9:26 AM

Originally posted by DMI:

Quote:
It's a morality tale against liking and defending garbage.

Yeah well why not start with those dreadful Twilight films! And where were you when they decided to make two sequels to The Matrix! and forgive me but do we really need seven Harry Potter films?!?!? Or another Transformers flick. DMI you sure you can defend that much garbage? There's alot more out there than episodes I, II, and III

Way I see it is, if folk would just relax about the whole thing and not take them so seriously, those prequels are an enjoyable enough. But if y'all watch them expecting your lives to change, well you're in for some hurt, and frankly you shouldn't be looking toward a film by Lucas for that anyway!

But I find it funny you all vowed never to talk to that guy again.

Would you like to see some cartoons? http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 9:37 AM

Originally posted by Storymark:

Quote:
Absolutely agree. Just look at some complaints here - complaints about character choices which are entirely human and consistent with their characters - but not COOL. People seem to hate the prequels as often as not for not delivering the films they spent 20 years imagining. Problem is - everyone imagined a different set of films, so there was no way to EVER meet those expectations.

Indeed Storymark.

Quote:
People also tend to put the originals on a pedestal. Even Ford and Guiness complained about the hackneyed dialog in the original. Empire - now regarded as the best of the franchise, is the lowest grossing of the entire series, and received poor reviews at the time. And Jedi is a kiddiefied toy commercial/semi-remake of the first.

So true about Jedi. And yes the dialouge is shambolic! But as a 10 year old you just don't care.

Quote:
But since (the collective) we saw them as kids, and bonded to them - they will forever be superior. But kids who saw the Prequels first, love them just as much as we love the originals. You can never truly go back and view something through the eyes of a child again - and the biggest complainers don't get that.

Absolutely. You know my nephew and I spent hours talking about star wars long after the DVD had finished. He's always quizzing me on something, which coloured lightsaber is better, or who do you think would win out of young Ben Kenobi and an old Darth Vader and so forth. His imagination goes nuts and it's wonderful to see.

Quote:
That said - the prequels DO have some serious problems - mostly on the script level, because when it comes down to it, and by his own admission, Lucas is an idea man - and not much of a writer. But they're hardly the crimes against humanity some like to make them out to be.

Exactly. In fact if you listen to his commentaries he often mentions the fact that they are designed around the idea of being understood whithout dialouge.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 9:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
those dreadful Twilight films! And where were you when they decided to make two sequels to The Matrix! and forgive me but do we really need seven Harry Potter films?!?!? Or another Transformers flick. DMI you sure you can defend that much garbage?

Yeah, garbage does tend to pile up.

Seriously, I don't mind the prequels too much, I just don't watch 'em much.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 10:10 AM

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:
Seriously, I don't mind the prequels too much, I just don't watch 'em much.

Oh same here. And really of the original three I think I probably would only want to watch Empire all the way through again.
But now that my nephew is at that age where he can watch these things it's just made the whole thing more enjoyable. Not just Star Wars but most family orientated films. Can't wait to show him Back to the Future and Raiders!! He's going to go nuts!

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 10:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

And really of the original three I think I probably would only want to watch Empire all the way through again.

I marathon 'em at least once a year.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 10:24 AM

... Do you fast forward past the ewok battle :D ?

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
... Do you fast forward past the ewok battle :D ?

No, just the added Jaba scene in IV.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
The Sith only have two Lords, who are taught by the previous two lords, all the way back to the first non-Sith who received the teachings from the Sith-species.

Actually, there used to be thousands of Sith. It was only after the Battle of Ruusan (which killed off an army of Sith Lords and Jedi) that Darth Bane created the Rule of Two. That was about 1000 years before TPM (the point when most Jedi believed the Sith went extinct).

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
when it comes down to it, and by his own admission, Lucas is an idea man - and not much of a writer.

And see, this is my problem with them, as a writer/film-person myself.

So, Lucas knows he's not a great writer. That's fine. Lot of people aren't. But a lot of people are. The whole reason the entertainment industry exists is to put talented artists in touch with talented artists. The nature of film is deeply collaborative; most films are "written" by half a dozen people, regardless of who gets which credit.

I'm sure that, in less time than it takes for a PA to fetch a coffee, George "I Own Hollywood" Lucas could have no less than 50 award-winning writers lined up to take a revision pass over his scripts. Yet he did not do so.

Why?

To me, the only possible reason is because he didn't think it worth it. Didn't think it mattered as long as the effects were good.

What it boils down to is this: Lucas had the capability (and God knows, the budget) to deliver the best possible product. He deliberately chose not to. Apparently, his fans were not worth it.

I will never consider the prequels to be anything more than an overproduced, well-marketed special effects demo reel.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 11:53 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
But if y'all watch them expecting your lives to change, well you're in for some hurt, and frankly you shouldn't be looking toward a film by Lucas for that anyway!

Why is that? I don't think it's out of line to say he changed the world with Star Wars. I bet there are plenty of people who's entire lives were changed by the originals. I don't even know if I would have become an enginerd if it weren't for star wars.

Is it that far fetched to think that he could change the world again? Obviously after the fact it's plain to see he didn't, but going in there was no way to know what he had in store for us.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 12:21 PM

MOOSE

I went with Star Wars, TESB, ROTJthen the prequels for my boys.

They love all of them, but the only one they really watch all the way through (no fast-forwarding to the "good" parts) is The Empire Strikes Back. Kinda proud of them for that.

One other thing about watching the prequels then the OT...it makes Luke's attraction to Leia really really creepy.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 12:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Moose:

One other thing about watching the prequels then the OT...it makes Luke's attraction to Leia really really creepy.

I had not thought of that!
You are correct sir!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Zeek:

Quote:
Why is that? I don't think it's out of line to say he changed the world with Star Wars. I bet there are plenty of people who's entire lives were changed by the originals. I don't even know if I would have become an enginerd if it weren't for star wars.

When you're a child sure you're more impressionable - but as an adult?

Quote:
Is it that far fetched to think that he could change the world again?

For us who grew up since having watched the originals yes I think it is far fetched. For kids of the generation of I, II & III there's a chance he'll inspire those kids.

Quote:
Obviously after the fact it's plain to see he didn't, but going in there was no way to know what he had in store for us.

I don't believe it was ever possible to make that kind of impression with the same generation that saw the originals. Just my opinion of course - and it's all congecture so I could very well be wrong. But in all earnest as much as I loved the originals I didn't go to watch the prequels thinking I would feel the same way I did the first time around....

But that's just my take on it. Perhaps I'm more cynical than I realise and fair play to you for holding onto that ideal Zeek. I don't mean to contradict by the way.

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 12:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

For us who grew up since having watched the originals yes I think it is far fetched.

I think Cyber was correct here:
"What it boils down to is this: Lucas had the capability (and God knows, the budget) to deliver the best possible product. He deliberately chose not to."

Who wrote the screenplays for Empire & Raiders?
(Kasdan)
How hard is it to hire super-talented peeps?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 1:08 PM

Yes but Lucas goes for box office and as Storymark pointed out Empire did not make as big an impact. Given he wrote Star Wars he probably felt he had it in him to do it again. Plus y'know these things are really his babies. Stands to reason he'd want to complete them. If I recall correctly, didn't he hand over Empire Strikes Back to Irvin Kirshner because he [Lucas] was too busy developing ILM and his Lucas Arts production company and was too exhausted to endure the production of Empire Strikes Back?

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 2:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
If I recall correctly, didn't he hand over Empire Strikes Back to Irvin Kirshner because he [Lucas] was too busy developing ILM and his Lucas Arts production company and was too exhausted to endure the production of Empire Strikes Back?

LOL, not at all. He said directing was too much of a "chore" & that he never wanted to do it again, just control the productions peripherally & supervise the FX quality. He was reportedly pissed that Ford made up the response to Fisher "I know" in Empire, but Kirshner stood by it, so it stayed.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 2:52 PM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
But if y'all watch them expecting your lives to change, well you're in for some hurt, and frankly you shouldn't be looking toward a film by Lucas for that anyway!

Why is that? I don't think it's out of line to say he changed the world with Star Wars. I bet there are plenty of people who's entire lives were changed by the originals. I don't even know if I would have become an enginerd if it weren't for star wars.

Is it that far fetched to think that he could change the world again? Obviously after the fact it's plain to see he didn't, but going in there was no way to know what he had in store for us.

Yeah - it's a pretty unfair expectation. Very few people ever change the world. Even fewer do it more than once. Especially once they're (sorry older guys) past their prime as opposed to at their peak, and the head of a massively profitable company living a life of luxury as opposed to a hungry (literally and metaphorically) young artist trying to establish himself.

You are also comparing a man who approached the medium in a way no one had really done before, to one who was faced with revisting a style that (because of him) had become the standard in many ways.

The differences in context are huge. So, yeah, it probably was unreasonable to expect him to capture lightning in a bottle again.

Don't get me wrong - there are big problems with the prequels, and I don't think they equal the originals for the most part (I consider Sith and Jedi to be pretty close). I flat out hate most of TPM. I could go on and on about what could have/should have been changed - because, like everyone else, I imagined my own perfect prequels. But the prequels are still better and more imaginative than 90% of the big F/X driven blockbusters out there, but many people let their own, impossible to fulfill expectations, ruin their enjoyment of the things the movies did do well.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, May 5, 2010 2:59 PM