OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

'...I'm Batman.'

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 11:48
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 10781
PAGE 1 of 3

Saturday, November 20, 2010 12:00 PM

CHRISISALL


Okay, now I just watched Batman (Keaton), and I watched Batman Begins the other week. Man, I am SO split on which I like better...

Batman has:

A peerless Joker performance, IMO.
A cool Batmobile.
A hot love interest.
Great fight scenes.
A visually interesting & goth Gotham, and fascinating production design in general.
Funny jokes.
An excellent Elfman score.
A twisted mentality.
Drawbacks:
Some cheesy FX, rushed & thin storyline (writer's strike).

Batman Begins has:

Lush photography.
An excellent Zimmer score.
A cool Batmobile chase.
Insane fight scenes.
A super-serious tone.
Gary Oldman.
Morgan Freeman.
Michael Caine.
Drawbacks:
CGI sometimes makes me sleepy, Bale's Wayne performance can be rather unsympathetic compared to Keaton's (or Clooney's).

Seriously, I like both these movies so much, if I had to choose only ONE, I'd be lost.

Got Opinion?

The flyingmouse Chrisisall



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 12:18 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Christian Bale is the only actor so far who could pull of the characters of both Batman and Bruce Wayne. Keaton was a pretty good Batman, but not a great Bruce Wayne.
The batmobile tank kicked ass. The new suit kicked ass. The origin of all his equipment in general kicked ass.
Ninjas.
There really isn't much comparison. Batman Begins is my favorite all-time Batman movie. Quite possibly my favorite comic hero movie ever.


Just because something can't be explained doesn't mean it becomes yours.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 12:20 PM

CHAOSMANDY


I enjoyed the first Batman movie, but I love the new ones with Christian Bale. He makes such a perfect Batman, and I can't wait for the next movie to come out.

--------
~Captain of the Asheville Browncoats~

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 12:40 PM

CYBERSNARK


I'm a Nolanverse fan. Keaton's Batman was just a chunk of 90s-era Grimdark put on screen (seriously, Batman using machine guns? Killing people? It was practically a Frank Miller story, without the whores). I'll grant that the Nolanverse isn't perfect, but it's better than what we've had, and Bale's performance makes sense as a Batman at the very beginning of his career, before he's become the omni-competent master crimefighter everyone is already familiar with.

The Nolanverse is the first version of Batman that really took the concept seriously and not as a cartoon stereotype.

Rather than just throwing the concept out there, Nolan used the domino principle to justify Batman. You can almost imagine Nolan's Batman existing in the real world, where none of the previous versions could function outside of their particular little charicatures of what the director(s) thought a comic book should have been.

I tend to feel that one of the things that defines a good superhero is how close they are to reality. Really, if you go far enough in the other direction, they just turn into sci-fi, fantasy, or a dream sequence. It becomes an ungrounded exercise in wish-fulfillment, rather than a story about a hero pushed to extremes.

The one thing I will give Keaton credit for is cementing the idea that Batman wears armour (because bad guys have guns).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 12:50 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

There really isn't much comparison.
I Bat-beg to differ. It depends entirely whether you're throwing on a Bat-movie for laffs (Batman & Robin), sheer spectacle (Batman), or psychological depth (Batman Begins).
Quote:
Batman Begins is my favorite all-time Batman movie. Quite possibly my favorite comic hero movie ever.
I can easily see why it's your favourite Bat-movie, but Superman: The Movie will always be my favourite Superhero flick. Iron Man, Batman Begins & Batman come real close, though.


The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 12:54 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Nope, sorry Chris, Batman Begins has spectacle and depth and great acting and a great story. Beg to differ all you want, there still isn't any comparison.


Just because something can't be explained doesn't mean it becomes yours.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 12:55 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:

The Nolanverse is the first version of Batman that really took the concept seriously and not as a cartoon stereotype.

You can almost imagine Nolan's Batman existing in the real world, where none of the previous versions could function outside of their particular little caricatures
Sorry, no. Not for me. Batman STILL hasn't been done entirely right IMO. Nolan did great, but real world? Nah. Close, but no fat lady singing.


The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 12:58 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Nope, sorry Chris, Batman Begins has spectacle and depth and great acting and a great story. Beg to differ all you want, there still isn't any comparison.

So, pizza has no comparison to Atlantic Salmon. I did not know that.



The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 1:19 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


I'm comparing Batman movies to Batman movies, not pizza and fish. And yeah, pizza with toppings is better than melted cheese on crust


By the way, Heath Ledger was crazy awesome


Just because something can't be explained doesn't mean it becomes yours.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 1:22 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by ChaosMandy:
I enjoyed the first Batman movie, but I love the new ones with Christian Bale. He makes such a perfect Batman, and I can't wait for the next movie to come out.
I've liked Batmans, and I've liked Waynes, but they still have never cast an actor that can handle BOTH *perfectly* IMO.
Give me Ryan McPartlin or Josh Brolin OR a NEW face along the lines of a young Christopher Reeve, and I'd be totally happy.



The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 1:27 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I'm comparing Batman movies to Batman movies, not pizza and fish.
just sayin' that a gourmet fish dinner is more substantial than pizza, much like BB is more substantial than B.
Quote:

By the way, Heath Ledger was crazy awesome



The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 1:36 PM

MUTT999



Has 'em all beat:






NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 1:41 PM

CHRISISALL


I *LOVE* that movie as well!
AND- it has the best Batmobile of all time!!!!



The somedaysyoujustcan'tgetridofabomb Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 1:51 PM

MUTT999



Just Googled 'Batmobile'. Had no idea there were so many different ones, but yeah, coolest by far:







NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 2:12 PM

CHRISISALL


Mutt, check this diecast out!

http://www.amazon.com/Hot-Wheels-2090-series-Batmobile/dp/B001JIO4BS
I'm dyin' to get one!


The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 2:41 PM

PENGUIN



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 3:06 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by beatupplenty:
Keaton is my favorite Batman. He is so unexpected.



"...I'm Batman."



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 3:20 PM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:
Originally posted by Mutt999:

Just Googled 'Batmobile'. Had no idea there were so many different ones,

Aside: This is one of the things I love about the Batman comics; it's written in that he changes his costume/equipment every few months --think of how quickly a computer becomes obsolete, now apply that to bleeding-edge military-grade hardware (with the added wrinkle of being routinely shot at, set on fire, dropped off buildings, dragged through flooded sewers, exposed to toxins, radioactivity, and the occasional judgement-impared teenager).

Basically, it gives every new artist/writer free reign to design their own "look" from the ground up. Want a batmobile tank? Fine. A modified Bugatti? Cool. A BttF-style flying car? Go ahead.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 4:04 PM

CHRISISALL


Yes. It's cool that way.


The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 4:31 PM

CHRISISALL


Okay, let's get real here. A messed-up rich guy with primo physicality, detective skills, a bat fascination, & a death wish?
Can you say nonsense?
I knew that you could.

Keaton's Batman rules employing this reasoning.


The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, November 20, 2010 8:31 PM

BLUEEYEDBRIGADIER


Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Okay, now I just watched Batman (Keaton), and I watched Batman Begins the other week. Man, I am SO split on which I like better...

Batman has:

A peerless Joker performance (no, this is NOT a debatable point, TDK's Joker just copied Brandon Lee's Crow, but in colour).
A cool Batmobile.
A hot love interest.
Great fight scenes.
A visually interesting & goth Gotham, and fascinating production design in general.
Funny jokes.
An excellent Elfman score.
A twisted mentality.
Drawbacks:
Some cheesy FX, rushed & thin storyline (writer's strike).

Batman Begins has:

Lush photography.
An excellent Zimmer score.
A cool Batmobile chase.
Insane fight scenes.
A super-serious tone.
Gary Oldman.
Morgan Freeman.
Michael Caine.
Drawbacks:
CGI sometimes makes me sleepy, Bale's Wayne performance can be rather unsympathetic compared to Keaton's (or Clooney's).

Seriously, I like both these movies so much, if I had to choose only ONE, I'd be lost.

Got Opinion?

The flyingmouse Chrisisall




All mighty valid points, but I have to give the trophy to this interpretation of the Dark Knight:



PROS
- Danny Elfman score
- Kevin Conroy doing a Batman/Bruce Wayne dichotomy that really works
- Mark Hamill as the Joker, baby!
- Rogues Gallery villains that weren't Thalidomide babies, cat-resurrected corpses, or apparent survivors of toxic waste dips
- Respectful to the mythos without going overboard with the Gothic horror, camp or playing it for real parts of the spectrum

CONS
- Animation style's a tad dated these days
- Batman was already Batman at the first episode


To me, the Bruce Timm-produced series from the early 90s narrowly beats out the Nolan and Burton films for Best Batman projects...and the Schumachers are dead last! Even the 60s TV series and movie were less campy!

"The revenge of the beaten comes in refusing to fall." -- Mal, in "The Losing Side - Chapter 45" by jetflair

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 1:17 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Hey Big 'C'.

Well I've been mulling this one over myself for a while now as I recenty re-watched the Adam West Batman and have to say it has a place in my heart. It's sheer escapism and pure fun. It has The Joker, The Penguin, The Riddler and Catwoman. An absolutely HILARIOUS Batman repelling a shark on the end of his leg with Anti-Bat 'Shark Repellant' a riotous scene with Batman trying to dispose of a Bomb (which is shaped like a cartoon Bomb) on a seafront pier and being thwarted mutliple times by people getting in his way, and at one point a family of Ducks who are swimming in the sea - causing Adam West to utter: "Some days you just can't get rid of a Bomb!" In short it has plenty of content and is still funny! And yes the Car is the BEST!

Back in the 80's when Tim Burton's Batman came out. It was awesome! Great sets, GREAT score and an edgey Batman that I wanted. It was Dark brooding and deeply menacing and it was perfect... Of it's time and wonderful. It came with AMAZING hype and build-up and because of that it was more than just a film. It was an icon of 80's cinema. The Batman LOGO became something more than just a badge on a guy wearing a costume. It grew beyond the medium it sprang from. Even now I get goose bumps seeing folk wear that T-shirt because it takes me back to 1989. It was the very image (for me) of summer in 1989... So it became and remains an epic film. Flawed of course - but still Epic!!!

Now Batman Begins... Whilst arguably a better written script and perhaps a more conscise story lacked cinematic punch. Bale was, sorry Phoenix Rose, just not cutting the mustard, for me. He was a fine Batman (excepet for that ridiculous raspy voice) but I couldn't agree less about his Bruce Wayne. Keaton is way better. Bale's Wayne is just a type of obvious charade, where as Keaton is oozing angst and brooding physchosis and clearly deeply scarred. As for the supporting cast well Katie Holmes is woeful and ruins the impact. The Liam Nielson twist is rather anti-climactic and Morgan Freeman is just being Morgan Freeman. I tend to get flack for this last remark as for some reason people always think that whatever Morgan Freeman does is brilliant and he cannot be questioned - but I don't like him in the Batman films. That said it was a an enjoyable film, but just didn't have the weight, the sheer freight-train-thunderous THUMP! The Burton one had. I actually think Dark Knight was far far better, but that I imagine is for another time and thread...

So to sum up....

Batman (1989)
Batman the Movie (1966)
Batman Begins (2005)

However. The one I watch the most is BATMAN RETURNS. (....Just appeals to my sensibilities)

P.S. Sorry for spelling mistakes - I'm writing this on the fly....


Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 2:56 AM

CHRISISALL


I must agree that the animated Batman is the best.


The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 2:58 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
that ridiculous raspy voice
THANK YOU!!!

It's not just me...


The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:58 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
... Keaton is oozing angst and brooding physchosis and clearly deeply scarred.

Yeah, his Wayne is exactly like his Batman. Kind of eliminates the whole need for 'secret identity.' Alternately, other actors have played their Batman exactly like their Bruce Wayne, which has also been kind of lame. Yes, Bruce Wayne is deeply scarred, but I would posit that those scars come out in the form of Batman. Batman is Wayne's psychosis, very nearly to the point of a split personality. Wayne is also pretty brilliant, and part of that comes out in knowing that he has to distance himself from Batman to avoid suspicion. The line is blurry, but they're different characters that need to be played differently. I know there's something to be said for nostalgia, but I grew up with Batman, grew up with those movies. I always thought there was something missing from all the portrayals I saw, and then Bale delivered it. His Wayne might play like a charade to you because it very simply is one; obfuscating spoiled rich boy. Now, part of that is down to the writing, this movie having scenes in it that were clearly designed to cast Bruce Wayne in that very role, but some credit goes for the casting. I know Bale has caught a lot of heat in recent times and it's kind of cool to hate on him, but that does not change my mind even a little bit about his talents.


Just because something can't be explained doesn't mean it becomes yours.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 9:23 AM

CYBERSNARK


Exactly, Batman/Bruce is actually a mirror image of Clark/Superman. In Gotham, Batman is the real person, while "Bruce Wayne" is nothing more than another mask Batman wears to serve a specific purpose (functionally no different from "Matches Malone" or any of his other aliases). In Metropolis, Clark Kent is the real person, while "Superman" is just a costume he wears.

There've been storylines where Bruce Wayne just disappeared for weeks or even months at a time --Batman was too busy with a case to bother putting up the charade. (Conversely, "Superman" recently took a year off, while Clark continued working every day at the Planet.)

Bruce Wayne died that night in Crime Alley, his body just hasn't caught up yet.



-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 12:03 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


No hate for Bale from me. I actually have always liked the guy. I just don't like his Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins. Not every negative comment comes with a hate tag. Similarly because I pointed out that I don't enjoy Morgan Freeman's character in Begins, it doesn't translate to disliking Morgan Freeman. Quite the contrary.

I will conceed that as with all of these things it boils down to personal opinion and nothing more. There's no secret formula and I won't try and relay anything as such to you. Merely pointing out why I enjoyed Keaton's Wayne over Bale's Wayne.


Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 12:21 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
I enjoyed Keaton's Wayne over Bale's Wayne.

While I liked Clooney's Wayne very much, it was too one dimensional (kind of like the movie itself, I'll admit)- Keaton's Wayne seemed damaged, and I liked that. Of course, his Batman was near perfection, at least to me.
Kilmer seemed to be sleepwalking through both roles, and Bale's Wayne seemed too needy & whining.
Again, to ME.


The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 3:10 PM

CHRISISALL


I guess it all boils down to my favourite Batman live action moment- in the 1989 flick where he intentionally drops Jack into his chemical fate. The look in Keaton's eyes was priceless, and painful. I still get goosebumps to this day watching it.


The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 3:43 PM

CHRISISALL


PhoenixRose, I'm really sorry to be going here, but it's necessary for my reality-check.
Batman is deadly serious in comics.
However, that's a medium that allows for insane extremes where 'drama' is concerned.

To treat Batman as someone that can exist in the real world is nonsense IMO.

Give me Keaton. Hell, give me Clooney. 12 Hells, give me Adam West!!
But Bale & Nolan delivered realism couched in fantasy.

Please Nolan, PICK ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are we real or are we fantasy????



The demanding Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 5:16 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:
While I liked Clooney's Wayne very much, it was too one dimensional (kind of like the movie itself, I'll admit)- Keaton's Wayne seemed damaged, and I liked that. Of course, his Batman was near perfection, at least to me.
Kilmer seemed to be sleepwalking through both roles, and Bale's Wayne seemed too needy & whining.
Again, to ME.


By the time Joel Schumacher came on board to direct those films the momentum of the previous two Batman's were such that you could've made Kermit the Frog The Caped Crusader and people would still have gone to see it!... Actually I'd probably go see a Muppet Batman spoof... Anyway point being I think it neither Clooney or Kilmer's fault at how they interpreted Bruce Wayne/Batman. The marketing machine was such that it was inconsequential who adorned the rubber suit. They were merely beefcake for hire...


Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 5:23 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
I guess it all boils down to my favourite Batman live action moment- in the 1989 flick where he intentionally drops Jack into his chemical fate. The look in Keaton's eyes was priceless, and painful. I still get goosebumps to this day watching it.

Agreed.

Also In Batman Returns when the Circus Gang are bothering an old lady and Batman is merely just looking on. He doesn't move to help her. It's when the gang notice Batman and make a move for him that he then reacts. Always thought that extremely telling of the character of Batman.


Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:02 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Bale's Wayne is just a type of obvious charade, where as Keaton is oozing angst and brooding physchosis and clearly deeply scarred. A


Well.... that's kinda the point, and how it's supposed to be. Bale's Wayne is only an obvious charade to the omniscient observer. In context, he is exactly what people expect from a spoiled trust-fund brat. It's the point of his cover. The public isn't supposed to see his real personality.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:04 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Hell, give me Clooney. 12 Hells, give me Adam West!!
But Bale & Nolan delivered realism couched in fantasy.

Please Nolan, PICK ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are we real or are we fantasy????






I can't even take you seriously on the subject now.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:07 PM

WISHIMAY


I grew up with Keaton, he will always be the cool Batman for me.

Also, you got Nicholson, Basinger, and no whiny sidekick!!!



I roam the rooftops alone, birdboy...

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:15 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Hell, give me Clooney. 12 Hells, give me Adam West!!
But Bale & Nolan delivered realism couched in fantasy.

Please Nolan, PICK ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are we real or are we fantasy????


I can't even take you seriously on the subject now.

Ditto.


Just because something can't be explained doesn't mean it becomes yours.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:30 PM

LILI

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.


Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Hell, give me Clooney. 12 Hells, give me Adam West!!
But Bale & Nolan delivered realism couched in fantasy.

Please Nolan, PICK ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are we real or are we fantasy????


I can't even take you seriously on the subject now.

Ditto.

It took you guys this long to not take him seriously on this? Hell, he lost me right off, when he said Ledger was aping Lee.
No, dude. No. Not even the makeup was similar. You're officially deluded on the subject. You shouldn't pretend otherwise.


The Nolan movies truly bring the comic books to life. They are comic books on film, basically. When I'm interested in seeing my comic book Batman in a film, I go for those. When I am interested in Ham and Cheese, I might go for one of the others.
Now, you folks can argue til the cows come home about what is most fun to watch, but if you're going to talk about telling a good story, the early films clearly weren't even aiming for that. They were aiming for Camp. Possibly even aiming for Cheese. They were aiming for fun or spectacular visuals. Weren't aiming for quality storytelling. I think Burton even lampshaded that when he had the Joker asking where Batman got all those wonderful toys. That was never explained in the films, it was just kind of handwaved away as, "Well, Batman has cool stuff, because he's Batman." The Nolan films set out to tell the story, give us answers (however unlikely some of them were) and actually develop some characters. I wouldn't call them flawless, far from it, but in terms of quality storytelling in a live-action Batman franchise, that's where it's at.


Facts are stubborn things.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 9:08 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by LiLi:
Quote:
It took you guys this long to not take him seriously on this? Hell, he lost me right off, when he said Ledger was aping Lee.
No, dude. No. Not even the makeup was similar. You're officially deluded on the subject. You shouldn't pretend otherwise.


The Nolan movies truly bring the comic books to life. They are comic books on film, basically. When I'm interested in seeing my comic book Batman in a film, I go for those. When I am interested in Ham and Cheese, I might go for one of the others.
Now, you folks can argue til the cows come home about what is most fun to watch, but if you're going to talk about telling a good story, the early films clearly weren't even aiming for that. They were aiming for Camp. Possibly even aiming for Cheese. They were aiming for fun or spectacular visuals. Weren't aiming for quality storytelling. I think Burton even lampshaded that when he had the Joker asking where Batman got all those wonderful toys. That was never explained in the films, it was just kind of handwaved away as, "Well, Batman has cool stuff, because he's Batman." The Nolan films set out to tell the story, give us answers (however unlikely some of them were) and actually develop some characters. I wouldn't call them flawless, far from it, but in terms of quality storytelling in a live-action Batman franchise, that's where it's at.


Hey Lili.

Very well put, and diffilcult to argue against. However if I may make a point; and I don't wish to speak for Chris, but I think what he may be hinting at is that once you start to do just what Nolan did to Batman - which is remove it's comic elements and try and establish it within the context of reality the very priciple of the Batman persona starts to become ridiculous.

Simply because there's no way of explaining such things as 'the gadgets' within the context of reality and yet continue to have your central character leap off buildings, dodge exploding cars and still maintain his secret identity etc. It's a kind of selective reality.

Sometimes those moments where the Joker says: "Where does he get those wonderful toys?" Are in place to act as a tonic and allow you to swallow the fantasy.

That said - I do think you're right about Nolan. He's far more cerebral about his filmmaking and he is always about telling a good story and for that he should be celebrated.

It's just that sometimes it's nice to be taken in by the wonder of it all.



Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, November 21, 2010 9:31 PM

LILI

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.


I would argue that its 'comic' elements were not removed, but rather celebrated. Too many people associate comic books with cheese, but they are not actually like that. Many comic books are cerebral, of high quality and awesome fantasy. I've argued this point with more than one English Lit instructor in the course of my degree. It's a mistake to view something designed for escapism as necessarily vacuous. Escapism can have a backstory, and will often benefit from it. The backstory itself can be an interesting bit of fantasy. I don't think very many people study with ninjas in the mountains, and I've certainly never heard of something like memory cloth, so specialized for one purpose that it would probably not be developed for another. However, seeing such elements in a story about a man who becomes a superhero who is completely lacking in any super-power, it grants a richness to the fantasy that delights me.

I will repeat: The Nolan movies bring the comic books to life. They are comic books on film. When I'm interested in seeing my comic book Batman in a film, I go for those.


Facts are stubborn things.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 22, 2010 6:08 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:
Originally posted by LiLi:
I've certainly never heard of something like memory cloth,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_material
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_memory_polymer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_rubber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_elastomers

http://news.discovery.com/tech/t-shirt-body-armor-tank.html

Quote:
The scientists started with a $5 package of plain, white T-shirts purchased at Wal-Mart, which they then cut into thin strips. They dipped those white cotton strips into a black solution of boron. After an hour, the strips were removed from the solution and baked in at oven at more than 1,000 degrees Celsius (1832 degrees Fahrenheit) for an hour. The heat stripped away anything that wasn't carbon or boron, and combined these two elements into boron carbide.

The resulting fabric is very different than the original materials that at the start of the process. It's lighter, stronger, tougher and stiffer than the original cotton, but it can still be bent, unlike normal boron carbide armor plates. The physical properties of the new fabric are still being tested, said Li, but "from our preliminary results we can say the test have been very, very promising."

"We expect that the nanowires can capture a bullet," said Li.

The former T-shirt can also block other hazards as well, such as cancer-causing ultraviolet light from the sun and even life-threatening neutrons emitted by decaying radioactive materials, said Li.


One can only assume this research was funded in part by a grant from Wayne Industries, and possibly by Lexcorp as well. . .

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 22, 2010 7:49 AM

OPPYH


Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:


Please Nolan, PICK ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are we real or are we fantasy????






Helloooo!!! This is the problem with all current films/tv. You add too much realism, and it spoils the fantasy element. Made this comparison before but it speaks volumes. Batman Begins Batman drops a thug from about 25 feet breaking both his legs. Fine. TDK BAtman, and girl free fall from the top of a 20 story building crash on top of a car flattening it...get up brush themselves off, and walk away. Fantasy or reality. Pick One.



----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 22, 2010 7:51 AM

CHRISISALL


*deleted for losing the argument*

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 22, 2010 8:18 AM

OPPYH


Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

I can't even take you seriously on the subject now.


Because he has a valid point, or because you don't have an answer?

----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 22, 2010 8:21 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:

Helloooo!!! This is the problem with all current films/tv. You add too much realism, and it spoils the fantasy element.


I liked Batman Begins. TDK was a little hard to swallow for me.
Same here. I own Batman Begins. Hell, I even have a Hot Wheels tumbler.

It's just that trying to nail a character like Batman to reality doesn't work perfectly for me (Superman either, for that matter). Burton's take on Batman was to twist it a little, create a reality that can support that kind of near-psychosis. Schumacher achieved this with a(n un)healthy dose of 60's goofballisms. Nolan *sort of* created a supportive working environment, but it all sort of collapses for me when I see things like Wayne almost dying on his way to the secret hidden fortress, yet living after a multiple-story fall (on fire) off a building. That's all I'm sayin', be REAL, or be FANTASY. Fantasy can have real elements to it, but they must be CONSISTENT.
A totally realistic take on Batman would be that he's as much a NUT as any of his arch-villains.
OR, that he remains low key, striking at the criminals from within their conclaves of evil, never quite taking center stage, yet his cumulative effects upon them make their effectiveness crumble like sandcastles in the oncoming high tide.

Fight scenes & roaring car chases? Comic book stuff. And actually, that's the way I like my comic book stuff. All comic-book-y.


The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 22, 2010 8:21 AM

LILI

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.


Okay, they're both wearing white facepaint. And? Nicholson also wore white facepaint for his role as the Joker, does that mean anything? They're both slightly hunched over in those particular images. And? On film, their body language was very different. Brandon Lee was a rather graceful man, I don't remember him spending a lot of time hunched over. Ledger, I think, did a lot of it, making it far more striking when he moved swiftly and killed people with pencils. I also don't recall Lee being particularly jovial about death. I remember a great deal of angry angst. Perhaps my memory is faulty. It's been some time since I've seen it; can you tell me where he was jovial?


Facts are stubborn things.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 22, 2010 8:22 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:
Originally posted by LiLi:

It took you guys this long to not take him seriously on this? Hell, he lost me right off, when he said Ledger was aping Lee.


Nah, I was already long past there on that topic.

I went 'round with Chris on that point before. Calling the performances the same is facile and simplistic at best. I've broken down many of the very diverse characteristics that separate the performances, but to Chris it boils down to "Nuh-uh, their make-up is similar, and they both speak quietly AND raise their voices".

So no, I didn't read past the first post with any seriousness.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 22, 2010 8:25 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

I can't even take you seriously on the subject now.


Because he has a valid point, or because you don't have an answer?

----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER


That'd be option 3 - because I think he's point is so ludicrous it's not worth discussion.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 22, 2010 8:29 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by LiLi:
It's been some time since I've seen it; can you tell me where he was jovial?




The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 22, 2010 8:31 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:


That'd be option 3 - because I think he's point is so ludicrous it's not worth discussion.

I suddenly feel like I've lost all my credibility....



The laughing Chrisisall


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, November 22, 2010 8:34 AM

LILI

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.


That's it? That is angst and anger, with some darkly dry humor. Telling a joke isn't necessarily jovial. I think you should maybe look up the word jovial.


Facts are stubborn things.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
**Any other Sci-fi shows worth a look??
Mon, November 25, 2024 02:03 - 38 posts
Binge-worthy?
Fri, November 22, 2024 13:42 - 138 posts
Recommendations?
Fri, November 22, 2024 07:10 - 69 posts
Are There New TV Shows This Fall You Must See?
Thu, November 21, 2024 07:47 - 109 posts
Video Games to movie and tv series and other Cartoon / video game adaptions
Wed, November 20, 2024 06:46 - 101 posts
The Animated Movie Thread: name your favourites
Tue, November 19, 2024 14:35 - 84 posts
Best movie of the 21st Century.
Mon, November 18, 2024 13:41 - 57 posts
I threw my hands up in despair and stormed out- movie and/or show moments with which we just couldn't deal...
Mon, November 18, 2024 13:38 - 141 posts
Cardboard TRON!
Mon, November 18, 2024 13:07 - 8 posts
Shogun, other non scifi series
Fri, November 15, 2024 13:19 - 21 posts
List of Animated stuff for Chris and others.
Mon, November 4, 2024 17:15 - 84 posts
Best TV Show For Fall 2021?
Mon, November 4, 2024 07:40 - 29 posts
 VIEW MORE TOPICS 

FFF.NET SOCIAL