OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Terminator: SCC episode 2

POSTED BY: FARFLY
UPDATED: Monday, September 22, 2008 06:28
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3191
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Tuesday, September 16, 2008 8:39 AM

FARFLY


Well, Cameron is definitely different but not any less beautiful.

Select to view spoiler:


Although this episode was a little light on action, the storyline was moved along pretty well. A little cloudy as to why the resistance guy came back to warn about Greenway, surely the future guys must have known that he (Greenway)would be taken out by a terminator and the power plant would stay online.






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Tuesday, September 16, 2008 8:50 AM

KELKHIL


Crap! I keep forgetting that it is back on!

That is 2 episodes shown and 2 missed by me

Some men just wanna watch the world burn

Kelkhil
The Shirtless Forsaken


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Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:09 AM

FARFLY


I don't have tv so I just watch Terminator, Bones and Lost the next night at fox.com or abc.com. Terminator is at http://fox.com/fod/play.php?sh=tscc
and the first two episode are available for streaming.

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Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:08 AM

JONGSSTRAW


I liked the second episode last night. Summer Glau is really getting some amazing amount of screen time, and she is rapidly becoming "the" iconic terminator of all time. She's never looked better in her life either.

The show is showing some real promise and surprises this year. There's a lot going on, and new characters every week add to the intrigue. Funny how Summer's work is not being discussed as much here at FFF as one might expect.

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Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:00 AM

LWAVES


This show is one of my favourites. I'm also loving the soundtrack. Plenty of Terminator type moments and ominous sounds when the cyborgs are doing their thing, but some great softer moments as well. Bear McCreary does an outstanding job.

Cameron has definitely changed. She had an air of mystery during the first season about what her mission really was and now you really don't know where you stand with her. They are right not to trust her completely. Whether this is her own doing, the explosion or something else is just something we'll have to wait for.
One thing I really love about her character is that she does think, as she said in the episode. She isn't just a learning computer like the T-800's who can copy and adapt what they learn to a situation. Cameron seems able to figure stuff out on her own, and act on it, even if it means changing her programming.

Summer looks amazing in the show, even when she's all beat up. And that outfit at the pool table.
Giggidy, giggidy, gig-gi-dy!


Jongstraw:
Well if others don't want to write about it then that leaves more room for us to do just that.



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:05 AM

WHOZIT


I wonder what Cameron was thinking about when she was mopping? How to kill Johns new girlfriend and make it look like an accident?

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Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:16 PM

CYBERSNARK


Possibly she was trying to find a way out of the "Xanatos Roulette" dilemma.

-If the facility melts down, it can't be used by the resistance (and would likely kill or poison everything in the area, including John).
-If the facility closes down, it can't be used by the resistance.

As we saw, there was a third option:
-The facility is saved, but gets automated, playing right into Skynet's intangible hands.

It's worth noting that this technically preserves the timeline: the facility had to be liberated from Skynet before the resistance could make use of it.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:49 PM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
I wonder what Cameron was thinking about when she was mopping? How to kill Johns new girlfriend and make it look like an accident?


I too was wondering if she could possibly be feeling jealousy towards John. Summer is ultra hot in this show. Who is dressing this gal? Give her an Emmy. I'll bet Summer never in her wildest dreams ever grew up thinking she'd be a big star playing a terminator. But she's so damn good at it!

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Tuesday, September 16, 2008 2:03 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I continue to watch the show mainly for Summer. I do like it for the most part, but sometimes they make it hard for me to implement my suspension of disbelief. I have no problem accepting time travel or a computer program sophisticated enough to be self-aware, or robots that can mimic human behavior. However, I am not gullible enough to believe that Sarah and Cameron could not only get into a nuclear power plant simply by showing a state issued ID but also get a job there the same day. That wouldn't have been possible even in pre-9/11 America.



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Tuesday, September 16, 2008 2:04 PM

DEWRASTLER


Summer is great in this show for sure. Besides looking great in the bar scene, I thought it was hilarious how she beat those guys at pool. They never had a chance.

I thought the whole phone thing with the date was cool. An interesting little code they developed.

As a whole, the episode seemed to be there more as a stepping stone to set up new ideas for the future

Select to view spoiler:


John's new "friend", Sarah and the cancer, Zack Ward's character from the future and the writing in the wall in blood, the new automated Nuclear Power plant



We'll see where all this goes.

________________________________
People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do

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Tuesday, September 16, 2008 2:22 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


I feel sorry for Cameron. I think she is having these feelings that she doesn't understand. Sort of hitting the peak of puberty and having your heart broken all in the same second. I think the fact that John saved her is really bothering her, she now knows that she is his biggest weakness and biggest threat.


eta: bit slow on the uptake, just realized that was the woman from Garbage

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original




“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 12:06 AM

CALHOUN


I really want to like TTSCC, but alas i'm not quite there. Its really just so... meh. Surely I can't be alone?

And has anyone else noticed Summers bottom looks a bit bigger these days? I'm not really trying to be crass, its just an observation.

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 5:16 AM

ZEEK


Another jarring episode. They really just want the viewer to turn their brain off and say "explosion gooooood *drool*"

The whole plot of the episode was shoddy. How'd that guy in the future work? Did he come back from a future where the power plant was destroyed to tell them that it'd be really nice if they could have a major strategic power plant like in the future Reese is from? Or was he from the same future where they have the power plant yet he knew about some guy in the past who wouldn't even be a footnote in a news article? That whole plot point was dumb.

And (*@&#$ stop with all the time travel. We get 3 movies where the machines send back 1 terminator and the resistance sends back 1 person/terminator to stop them. That makes it seem like time travel is not just like turning on a faucet. TSCC makes it seem like time travel is the most common commodity in the future. We've got so many terminators and resistance fighters flying around that they might as well just move the whole war to 2007.

Was there any explanation for how the terminator got his face to look exactly like the power plant employee. Neat trick if they managed all that in the future.

I'm starting to figure out why Sarah's character grates on me. She's trying to act tough the whole time. She's not being tough she's just acting tough. Compare her to Zoe. Zoe just is tough. Zoe doesn't need to glare at people all the time or use lines like "the other part of the equation is maybe they shouldn't". That type of stuff just makes her sound like she's trying to hard. "Maybe they shouldn't" and just walking away would have been much cooler.

Bah when does Chuck start up again? I think I'm done with this show.

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:23 AM

FARFLY


Some of us just like Sci-Fi for what it is, fiction. If you want Sci-Reality, try Nova.

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:46 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by farfly:
Some of us just like Sci-Fi for what it is, fiction. If you want Sci-Reality, try Nova.



So, quality has no bearing? As long as it's scifi, it doesn't matter if it's Firefly, or The Phantom Menace?

How about sci-good writing?

I really enjoyed the first season, but the writing so far this year has been fairly contrived. Having characters do things that are either out of character, flat-out dumb, or nonsensical in the reality of that fictional world (even scifi needs to adhere to it's own internal logic to be successfull), just to get to the next plot point - that's lazy writing.

The ratings are reflecting the drop as well.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 8:04 AM

JONGSSTRAW


I can't help but to feel that some Browncoats do not want the BDH's to succeed in anything. They want to remember "their" Summer as River, and River only. They've all moved on to bigger ( not better ) things. If you love them, you got to let them go. You don't have to support them, but then again you don't need to bash their shows either. I've talked to lots of folks at work and outside that NEVER saw Summer Glau in Firefly or Serenity...and they don't care. Now they love Summer Glau for the show she is on now. I would gather that applies to Nathan, Christina, and the others too. Try to muster up some support for her, but if you can't because you don't like the show, why complain about it here.

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 8:12 AM

STORYMARK


I like it. Which is why I feel justified critisizing a drop in quality.

It has zero to do with Firefly. I am discussing this show on it's own merits, and looking at it's own failings.

Why so quick to silence any opinions other than "it rocks!"?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 8:15 AM

ZEEK


I have no problem with Summer's acting. She's doing fine with the material she's given. It's just that the material isn't very good IMO. Blind support of bad shows is not part of any browncoat mission I've ever heard of. Plus this is a message board. If we aren't going to discuss our opinions then what's the point?

I don't think anyone wants the BDH's to fail but I also don't think anyone wants to watch them suffer through poor script after poor script.

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 8:45 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Zeek, Story.....Good points. I didn't mean to stifle negative opinions, it's just that I want this show to do well because I look forward to seeing Summer every Monday night. Maybe I'm a little selfish.

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 8:52 AM

STORYMARK


I want it to do well, too. I really like the ideas, characters, and actors involved.

I just want it to do well, better.

It's still early in the season, lots of time to turn things around (asusuming FOX doesn't... FOX it). It was just frustrating that after having a fair ammount of prep time for this season (with the strike and all), that they'd start off a bit sloppily.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:57 AM

LWAVES


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I can't help but to feel that some Browncoats do not want the BDH's to succeed in anything. They want to remember "their" Summer as River, and River only. They've all moved on to bigger ( not better ) things. If you love them, you got to let them go. You don't have to support them, but then again you don't need to bash their shows either. I've talked to lots of folks at work and outside that NEVER saw Summer Glau in Firefly or Serenity...and they don't care. Now they love Summer Glau for the show she is on now. I would gather that applies to Nathan, Christina, and the others too. Try to muster up some support for her, but if you can't because you don't like the show, why complain about it here.



I think this is a very grey area for Browncoats that will (obviously) depend on each persons point of view regarding their favourite actor/actress from Firefly.
Using my own viewing preferences as an example I present this:

Summer: I will watch her in anything she is in. If it's a show I don't like then I will only watch the episodes she is in. I was already watching and enjoying The 4400 when she joined so that was a bonus. The only episodes of The Unit I have seen are hers. And I love T:TSCC. I was interested in it because of Summer and that it was Terminator stuff. But I think I would now carry on watching even if Summer wasn't in it (but they better not do that coz I won't be happy).

Nathan: I will try to catch most of his stuff. His appearance in Lost was a bonus as I was already a fan. I saw Waitress and Slither because he was in it and it, if he wasn't I don't think I would have bothered trying them out (although I did like both). But there is no way I will ever watch Desperate Housewives, even if he was on every week, I just couldn't do it.

Alan: Again I will try to catch most of his stuff, unless I know that it's a style of film I will not like (Dodgeball comes to mind). He, along with Adam, is the only one I recognized when FF aired and was already a bit of a fan.

Adam: Chuck is one of those shows that I will catch up with when I have more time to watch something in my already overfull TV schedule. I wouldn't go out of my way to watch something with him in (I tried The Posiedon Adventure and it sucked after Part 1 so I gave up).

Jewel: Big fan of SGA before she arrived so another bonus.

As for Gina, Ron and Sean if they turned up in something I was watching then great. But I wouldn't watch something just because they were in it. No offense to them or anything.

Having said that I genuinely wish them all the best and hope they find good work and I do want them all to succeed. And if they appear in anything I am watching or like then great.
But there's no way I can justify watching most (and certainly not all) of their shows/films as this would have to be at the expense of stuff that doesn't feature a BDH, whether their show is good or bad doesn't come into that part of it.

I'm sure that a lot of Browncoats have similar criteria for their fave person and they will continue to follow them. I too can be selfish when it comes to favourites. I don't always understand why people don't like the works of Kevin Smith, for example. I think he covers most of the comedic bases and is hilarious, but a mate of mine (who has very similar tastes to me) can't stand his stuff, yet he worships Adam Sandler, who I think is the unfunniest person on the planet (except for The Wedding Singer). But there we go.

I'll give up now sure in the knowledge that I haven't got all my points in there.
Hope it all makes sense!



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 12:55 PM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
The whole plot of the episode was shoddy. How'd that guy in the future work? Did he come back from a future where the power plant was destroyed to tell them that it'd be really nice if they could have a major strategic power plant like in the future Reese is from? Or was he from the same future where they have the power plant yet he knew about some guy in the past who wouldn't even be a footnote in a news article? That whole plot point was dumb.



Obviously, Future-guy found out about Skynet sending metal back in time to replace key individuals, and risked a gunshot wound to make the one-way trip to pass this critical intel to Sarah/John/Derek's cell (which, for the most part, they already knew thanks to events last season).

The T-1001 is still the wild-card; she's obviously more advanced than the T-888s (which suggests she's from farther in the future than them), and we've seen no indications that anyone knows she's here.

And the demonstrated time-travel has thus far been limited. I'd speculate that the future timeline looks vaguely like this.

-Skynet creates its first time portal (Portal-1) and sends the T-801 to kill Sarah Connor.

-The resistance captures Portal-1 and John sends Kyle Reese back to protect Sarah (and father him).

-The resistance captures a T-801 and reprograms it into "Uncle Bob."

-John sends "Uncle Bob" back to 1995 to protect young-John.

(-Somehow, the resistance determines that the timeline has been changed [Judgement Day has been pushed back].)

-Portal-1 is destroyed. (At this point Derek Reese is still in the future, thinking that his brother is dead.)

(-Cameron's origin. Either captured from Skynet and reprogrammed, built by John, or arrived from farther in the future [explaining why that T-888 didn't recognize her]. Derek meets Cameron inside the resistance base.)

(-The resistance captures the nuclear power plant.)

-Skynet creates Portal-2, and starts sending T-888s into the past to ensure its own creation, alter the timeline to ensure a strategic advantage, and to hunt down John Connor. These units are custom-skinned to resemble known individuals who either contributed to Skynet's creation or were in useful situations.

-Future-guy discovers this, and jumps through Portal-2 (as the resistance captures it; still suffering from injuries sustained in the battle) in a desperate bid to warn past-John and Sarah.

-John then sends Derek Reese and his cell (and a few other trusted agents) back to plant the seeds of the resistance (set up weapons caches, recruit soldiers, prevent T-888s from influencing the past). Another squad goes back even further to set up the time-portal in the bank vault (which John knows he'll need, in order to save his mom).

-Something yet-to-be-revealed happens, prompting John to send Cameron back to 1995, either through Portal-2, or an as-yet-unrevealed Portal-3. (Derek didn't see Cameron sent back, which means she was still in the future when he left)

(-With Cameron in play, the timeline changes again, neatly avoiding the "T3-timeline," pushing back Judgement Day again, and altering John's age.)

-Skynet develops nanotech, and sends the T-1000 to kill John Connor in 1995.

-Skynet sends the T-1001 back in time to take charge of Skynet's creation.

(Speculation: -Post-human-extinction Skynet realizes that it needed John Connor alive, and sends a custom-designed "retro" Terminatrix [Cameron] back to protect John from itself [and to protect itself from John].)

-Skynet survives.



-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:05 PM

MACBAKER


Quote:

Originally posted by Calhoun:
I really want to like TTSCC, but alas i'm not quite there. Its really just so... meh. Surely I can't be alone?

And has anyone else noticed Summers bottom looks a bit bigger these days? I'm not really trying to be crass, its just an observation.



I loved the first two movies, hated the third. This show feels much more like the Cameron movies, than the third ever did. I also like this version of John over the ones in the movies. I can see this guy growing into a leader. DIdn't see that as much in the actor's playing John in the movies.

Is the show perfect? No, but it's still better than most sci-fi on TV, and it hasn't jumped the shark (IMHO). It's a little early in the season to write this show off.

I LOVE CAMERON, and NO, Summer's bottom doesn't look bigger! Amazing? Yes! Bigger, uh no! And yes........that was crass, observation or not!

I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 5:47 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I must be in the minority here.

I think the show started badly, with the first half of Season 1 being cringeworthy. But I have seen steady improvement since then, extending into Season 2, which I feel is really quite good and much better than the beginning of Season 1.

I'm sorry for those that aren't enjoying the show lately, especially since I've seen it as getting better, not worse.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 5:48 PM

REGINAROADIE


I have to admit that with these last two episodes, the series has been getting my attention. I wasn't too big a fan of the show. Was never really into Terminator to begin with, so I was only tuning in for Summer. But starting from the finale, the series has really started to pick up steam. The finale had that mind bending paradox moment, as well as that great moment of all the SWAT guys one by one going into the pool with Johnny Cash on the soundtrack.

And with the premiere, Cameron begging John for mercy was a seriously creepy moment as well as the big reveal at the end, which was just amazing.

And then for this episode, even though she was only in one scene, it was a joy to see Busy Phillips again. And then John bringing home a girl to the new house he's never been in was a rare tender moment for the series. And the joke of the little kids room was just perfect. And Cameron breaking the pool balls perfectly was also cool.

I dunno. I like the smaller moments than whether or not the series is following the rigid canon of the movies.But once HEROES is on, I'll be DVR'ing it.

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

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Wednesday, September 17, 2008 5:55 PM

STOWEAWAY


To LWaves:

Um, you forgot Morena entirely. Guess that tells us where she stands on your list.

------------------------------------------------
Check out http://www.americasfunniesttshirts.com for hilarious shirts at a great price.

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 4:53 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Obviously, Future-guy found out about Skynet sending metal back in time to replace key individuals, and risked a gunshot wound to make the one-way trip to pass this critical intel to Sarah/John/Derek's cell (which, for the most part, they already knew thanks to events last season).


Even if he knew they sent a terminator back to impersonate that guy how did he know how many days they had to stop him? That implies they know the point in time that the future was altered which makes no sense because if the future was altered they'd have no idea that anything changed.

I think this terminator of the week thing is really cheapening the terminators themselves. Why should Cromartie be such a threat when they're taking out a terminator every other day like they're nothing?

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 5:57 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Obviously, Future-guy found out about Skynet sending metal back in time to replace key individuals, and risked a gunshot wound to make the one-way trip to pass this critical intel to Sarah/John/Derek's cell (which, for the most part, they already knew thanks to events last season).


Even if he knew they sent a terminator back to impersonate that guy how did he know how many days they had to stop him? That implies they know the point in time that the future was altered which makes no sense because if the future was altered they'd have no idea that anything changed.


Actually, all future-guy targeted was the day when the plant manager was replaced (he was a human as late as the day before; else Sarah would've noticed the missing scar before he was in the control room).

He couldn't have known that the Terminator would leap into action on his first day on the job (given how we've seen long-term infiltrations before).

As for how he knew that (and how he got his time/space entry coordinates), I'll agree that there's much about the post-apocalyptic timeframe (in terms of intel, technology, and Skynet's procedures) that we don't know. Hopefully, it'll be touched on in future episodes --can't expect them to infodump everything at once, it'd kill the narrative.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:08 AM

OPTIMUS1998


ok, got a semi-lively discussion going here, just wanna ask for any opinions on Terminator Salvation?
( the upcoming 4th movie, starring Christian Bale as John Connor, Set Post- Judgement Day. Currently slated for a late may '09 release)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0438488/

www.terminatorsalvation.com

ok, nevermind. upon further reading of the IMDB boards, (though they have been wrong before), T:S, follows the T3 storyline, not T:TSCC.

Bollocks.


Make Cartoons, Not War
- Sue Blu
Well played, Clerks...
- Leonardo Leonardo(Clerks Cartoon)

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Thursday, September 18, 2008 5:52 PM

HOPERULES


Does it ever bother anyone else that Sarah is trying to stop something that ultimately results in the birth of John? If the robots don't take over John would never have asked the the guy who would be his father to go back in time to protect Sarah and in the end conceive John. If the robots don't take over in the future she would never even know about them. I kind of thought the last movie explained the inevitability of the whole thing. What does not make sense to me is that Sarah does not see that and spend her energy keeping John safe so he can fulfill his destiny. That at least makes a little sense because the robots want there to be no John and are trying to change history to eliminate him. Even in the future where machines inevitability take over John is the leader and hope for the human race. No John would definitely be good for them.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Friday, September 19, 2008 1:29 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Hoperules:
Does it ever bother anyone else that Sarah is trying to stop something that ultimately results in the birth of John? If the robots don't take over John would never have asked the the guy who would be his father to go back in time to protect Sarah and in the end conceive John. If the robots don't take over in the future she would never even know about them. I kind of thought the last movie explained the inevitability of the whole thing. What does not make sense to me is that Sarah does not see that and spend her energy keeping John safe so he can fulfill his destiny. That at least makes a little sense because the robots want there to be no John and are trying to change history to eliminate him. Even in the future where machines inevitability take over John is the leader and hope for the human race. No John would definitely be good for them.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.


I think you bring up some interesting points. Time travel is a squirrely thing. In some time travel stories like for example Outer Limits' " A Stitch In Time" it is theorized that the time traveller (Amanda Plummer) can go back into the past and change history. When she returns to the present, the world is a different place due to the alteration of events shaping history, but she still remembers the original time line as well as the new one she helped create. The ramifications of her tampering manifest themselves by overloading her brain with an entire set of new historical realities. Her ability to continue to time travel is curtailed due to the intense pressure on her brain that causes hemmoraging. One would think that the ability to time travel could be the ultimate weapon, or possibly the ultimate instrument for good. Star Trek Voyager's episode "Year of Hell" delved into this quite well. I'm a pushover for time travel themed adventures...any and all of them. Sometimes they seem to be logical and other times they seem to defy logic. Best, at least for me, is to just go with the flow and enjoy, and not try to to over-analyze.

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Friday, September 19, 2008 4:51 AM

HOPERULES


I know you're right about the "go with the flow and enjoy" thing. But in this particular case, Sarah's behavior seems so illogical and stupid it is hard for me to get past it. However, I do find the show entertaining, so I guess I have to let it go. Boy is that hard.

P.S. I wonder if Sarah ever realizes that if she succeeds (probably impossible)there is a good chance that John would just go "poof" and never exist. See what I mean - hard to let it go.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Friday, September 19, 2008 5:01 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hoperules:
Does it ever bother anyone else that Sarah is trying to stop something that ultimately results in the birth of John? If the robots don't take over John would never have asked the the guy who would be his father to go back in time to protect Sarah and in the end conceive John. If the robots don't take over in the future she would never even know about them. I kind of thought the last movie explained the inevitability of the whole thing. What does not make sense to me is that Sarah does not see that and spend her energy keeping John safe so he can fulfill his destiny. That at least makes a little sense because the robots want there to be no John and are trying to change history to eliminate him. Even in the future where machines inevitability take over John is the leader and hope for the human race. No John would definitely be good for them.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.


The way I justify it in my head is that the story we follow in Terminator is one distinct reality and really nothing they do effects anything but their own reality. The John we know is not the John who leads the resistance that is sending people back to help. That John was born normally in one reality and he effed everything up by sending people back. Kyle told Sarah about John and then knocked her up so Sarah mistakenly assumed her son is the same John. However, this John has Kyle as a father instead of whoever would have really impregnated her if time travel wasn't involved.

It would be really cool if they followed that as the story line and in T4 we find out that the John we know is not this great leader that everyone thought he was destined to become. He's trying to live up to a legend of someone else's life. I think that could have some interesting twists to it.

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Friday, September 19, 2008 5:16 AM

CYBERSNARK


Technically, Skynet is the one who started the time war; if John hadn't sent Kyle back, Sarah would've died.

And you're assuming that John would forget "oh, Kyle Reese needs to go back in time." I'd imagine that, even in a non-Skynet world, John would remember the circumstances of his birth and send Kyle back (with the proper cover-story).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Friday, September 19, 2008 6:55 AM

HOPERULES


That makes sense, although Sarah's John would probably cease to exist if she succeeds. A small price to pay for the survival of the human race, I guess. However, I doubt Sarah would think so.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Friday, September 19, 2008 7:17 AM

HOPERULES


If Skynet and the robots never take over the world and send a terminator back to kill Sarah, why would an ordinary woman living in the 20th century believe any story that Kyle gives her about time travel and the need to destroy basically innocent people who are doing research that will lead to technology that will threaten the human race? I know I would find it a bit hard to believe without Arnold trying to terminate me. And if Sarah somehow was convinced, I think John the kid would just think his mother was a nut case unless some shape shifting cop comes after him.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Friday, September 19, 2008 12:01 PM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Technically, Skynet is the one who started the time war; if John hadn't sent Kyle back, Sarah would've died.

And you're assuming that John would forget "oh, Kyle Reese needs to go back in time." I'd imagine that, even in a non-Skynet world, John would remember the circumstances of his birth and send Kyle back (with the proper cover-story).


Yep but clearly that first John is a different John. There's no way he's the John fathered by Kyle because he'd never have existed that first time to send Kyle back. So, my theory is that we're now dealing with a different John. They have the same name but that's just Sarah's mistake.

Basically this is my way of solving the John sent his own father back paradox. It's not really a paradox if that first John is not the same John fathered by Kyle. There was some other father that first time around and now we have a John who thinks he has this destiny that really isn't his. It's the destiny of John #1 with mystery dad.

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Friday, September 19, 2008 12:42 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Zeek's theory does make a lot of sense, but when you are talking time travel theories it's easy to formulate just about any hypothesis.

Future John could very easily be the adult version of the John we know from T2, T3 and TSCC. He knows he has to send Kyle back in order to be born in the first place because Sarah told him about Kyle being his father.

If Skynet ever finds out who John's father is/was then all they have to do is get to Kyle in the future (but before John sent him back), kill him, then John goes *poof* because he was never born.



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Monday, September 22, 2008 6:28 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
If Skynet ever finds out who John's father is/was then all they have to do is get to Kyle in the future (but before John sent him back), kill him, then John goes *poof* because he was never born.


That's an interesting one. They could even accomplish this by never creating the time machine in the first place. Rather than trying to kill John by sending a terminator back just don't send anything back and John can never be born.

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