BSG's 'Influences' by cljohnston108

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BSG's 'Influences'

POSTED BY: CLJOHNSTON108
UPDATED: Sunday, March 22, 2009 18:43
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Sunday, March 22, 2009 2:20 AM

I find it interesting that when people talk about Battlestar Galactica, they’ll use words like “influenced”, “homage”, “tip of the hat” & “borrows the term ______" whereas other productions get words like “ripped off”, “copied”, “stolen”, etc.

Battlestar Galactica - Movies That Influenced It | Movie Moron
http://www.movie-moron.com/?p=4854

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"Spry for a dead fella!"

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:38 AM

DREAMTROVE

I disagree with the insinuation implicit. There's nothing wrong with derivation. I mean, you're posting this to a Firefly forum.

"Everything I do is derivative" - Joss Whedon

I believe he specifically called it Cowboy Bebop meet Outlaw Star. I don't know what pieces glue together to make Buffy, but Joss claims it has almost not truly original elements in it.

But I'm going to have to take a pot shot at this review of influences: That's just lazy. We're back in the corner of "People who bought this book also bought Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix."

I mean, picture a fantasy film, and then reading "This film was influenced by Lord of the Rings."

Sure, of course it was. Everyone involved had seen the film. What they don't say is "This film was influenced by Cherry 2000," or in this case, more specifically, Valerie 23, or Cyborg 2. I mean, if I did some thinking I could come up with a lot. We all know the story was written a long time ago, long before the original show aired.

Also, you always hear "this film was influenced by bladerunner" (my fave film) but no one ever stops to say "Bladerunner was influenced by Metropolis." And other things. But the films take direct shots from Fritz Lang's 1927 silent film basically verbatim, and the audience never noticed? WTF? And no, I don't call that ripping off, I call it a tribute, or derivative, but there's nothing wrong with derivative.

There is nothing in Grimm Fairy Tales, Charles Perrault or Arabian nights that is not derivative. Lord of the Rings is highly derivative, not to say "unoriginal." Does that mean we should go back in time and kick Tolkein's ass? No of course not. Derivation is how stories grow.

I call someone out on a malicious derivation, even if it's well done, because I think there are a couple of fine lines:

Lion the witch and the wardrobe is the Snow Queen, laced with christianity. I think that's a malicious theft. It's still a good story, but not really fantasy. It's early religious propaganda blatantly limiting fantasy element and stories to push the message on a faerie tale audience. (So is harry potter) and neither go very far into exploring their fantasy. But even that doesn't make them devoid of merit. And if you go to something like Wizard of Oz and study closely, I'm sure you'll find derivations. I know the wicked witch was lifted wholesale from a different story, I don't remember the title.

Also, then there's the category of "the total rip off" No one complained that Pirates of the Caribbean did not open with "based on the book by Tim Powers" but I've seen movies that did say "based on the book by" that were less so...

Ultimately, I reserve rip off for when someone makes a movie, and then someone else makes a movie that is the same movie, but with a different moral or message. Sort of like "I can't really write, but I'll steal this great story, and use it to manipulate the audience into accepting my political/religious ideas" I can't think of such a movie offhand, not because there aren't 1000s of them, there are, but because we don't flock to see them.

Romancing the stone was pretty close to a rip off, but there was no real message. I think this may have been cashing in.

Battlestar Galactica, originally titled "Adama's Ark" correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not looking any of this up, I'm just ranting, was always and never claimed to be anything but derivative of the bible over all else. This is what enables me to see passed the religious propaganda. Even so, I still don't accept Gaius Baltar as God. I am willing to accept Caprica 6 as Satan, but I don't like the idea. Here's the idea I like, and I say this as a total non-judeo-christian as you all know: I like Caprica 6 as the Jezebel resurrection figure from Revelations, and Gaius Boltar as the weak flawed shell of a man that she can easily manipulate.

Oh, and Caprica 6 is a totally sympathetic character. Gaius Boltar is simply pathetic.

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:22 AM

CLJOHNSTON108

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I believe he specifically called it Cowboy Bebop meet Outlaw Star.

Actually, the reason I posted that was because of all the folks who complained that Firefly was a "rip-off" of Cowboy Bebop & Outlaw Star.
I myself noted similarities, but thought of them as the more polite "homage", "influence", "tip of the hat", etc.
(And I'd heard that Joss had never seen Cowboy Bebop or Outlaw Star)

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 3:28 PM

CYBERSNARK

*shrug*

I'm a fan of Shakespeare. He never wrote an "original" story in his life. Doesn't make him any less brilliant.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, March 22, 2009 6:43 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
(And I'd heard that Joss had never seen Cowboy Bebop or Outlaw Star)

Link me?

The thing I watched said he'd read the scripts, maybe it's technically true that he never watched the shows, but it seems exceedingly unlikely. I mean, assuming he's a geek, and human. God, everyone has seen Bebop, and had when Firefly came out. My mom had watched Bebop. If Joss had not seen it he was supremely out of touch.

"Nothing I do is original, all my work is derivative" - Joss Whedon, from the featurettes on the Buffy DVD set.

Oh, and if this is true: Joss, don't lie to the audience, one word: Melfina. There are two things I don't believe in: Leprechauns and coincidence.

If you say "Yes, that's where I got the idea" no one will ever think less of you. If you claim credit for an idea that you lifted from somewhere, everything you say and do will be suspect.

It's like Tolkein saying "the only similarity between Wagner's Ring and mine is that both of them are round." Please. Okay, so you just fought a couple of wars with Germany, one of them literal. But give us a break, my precious.

[edit] I found a reference to it on whedonesque, it was Doug Petrie who made the comment. Still, I find it hard to believe that Joss made the show without ever sitting down and watching the originals. I think if nothing else, that would be hopelessly irresponsible. When being derivative, which this show *is* and never claimed not to be, then watching what you are deriving from is the surest way to not end up directly copying someone else.

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