REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Ann Romney's High Horse (Not PN)

POSTED BY: KWICKO
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:42
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Friday, June 22, 2012 6:08 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)





http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/ann-romneys-high-horse

Quote:

Ann Romney found herself briefly the subject of a lawsuit at whose core, according to court documents, was a heavily-medicated horse.
Romney and her trainers sold the horse, Super Hit, in 2008 for $125,000. And Super Hit had what a prominent veterinarian described as a staggering quantity of drugs in its system at the time of its examination before being sold, according to a toxicology report that's part of the lawsuit over the horse's condition.
The lawsuit, which was mentioned in a New York Times story last month, was filed in 2010 by a woman in San Diego who had bought Super Hit from Romney and her trainers, Jan and Amy Ebeling. The woman, Catherine Norris, sued Romney for fraud after the horse allegedly proved physically incapable of performing as a dressage horse.
The case with Romney was settled last September and she is no longer involved in the lawsuit.
According to a toxicology report provided to the horse's vet and testimony from a veterinarian, Dr. Steven Soule, included in the lawsuit, Super Hit had three sedative pain killers and one narcotic pain killer in her system when the horse was examined to check her condition pre-sale. The drugs were Butorphanol, Delomidine, Romifidine, and Xylatine.
Soule, who has been the United States Equestrian Team veterinarian since 1978, writes, “In my 38 years of practice, I have never come across a drug screen such as this where the horse has been administered so many different medications at the same time.” The horse had a defect in its foot, and Norris's lawyers alleged that the Ebelings had drugged the horse in order to hide its condition.
The New York Times has over the last few weeks turned a spotlight on the related topic of performance-enhancing drugs in horses. A Romney spokeswoman didn't respond to inquiries about the case or the broader policy.



Scans of pertinent court documents are included in the linked article.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy


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Friday, June 22, 2012 6:18 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I can only just barely summon the strength of will to communicate how little I care about this.

I suppose since Romney is a presidential candidate, this might be important to someone.

I just can't imagine who.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 7:18 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I understand how you feel, Anthony, but I would be upset WHOEVER did it. For me, it's right along the lines of Romney having said he couldn't have an illegal immigrant working for him because he was running for President. It shows that doing what's right has no meaning for him, that all he cares about is what's expedient. Which we already know, this is just to me one more example of it.

Me, I'm pissed about it. I would be no matter WHO did it. But that's just me.


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Saturday, June 23, 2012 7:51 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


It sounds like suspicion fell on the trainers, not Mrs Romney.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 8:06 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


They shoot up Horses, dont they?

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 8:11 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Back in the days of the Old West, wasn't horse-trading the home of every scam, fraud, and lie that ever was? Isn't this just following in the old tradition?

Bad, and possibly abusive, for the horse. I see Niki's point there.

And it's kinda a shame that it's still going on in the 21st Century, and over $125,000 dressage horses rather than $ 50 plugs, among millionaires who could afford to be honest rather than scamming their buyers.

But isn't it the true American way, and a good old capitalist tradition? And, of course, possibly indicative of the Romney family style?

Just remember the good old campaign slogan: " Would you buy a used car (used horse) from this man (woman)?" Anybody around here other than me and Niki old enough to remember that one?

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 8:12 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


By the way, Mike, your thread reminded me of something else regarding Ann Romney's horse...so I put up my own thread on it (re: FauxNews). Unrelated, but since the title of your thread reminded me of it, I thought you might get a kick out of it.

And I agree, the trainers and/or those in charge of the horse are responsible for these egregious acts, not the Romneys unless they knew it was being done. Someone would have to come up with proof they know (which personally I kinda doubt they did) for it to pertain to the Romneys.


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Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:25 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


NOBC: Yup, I remember that slogan. And it's been a pretty good yardstick ever since. Just ask yourself that question about any candidate, and see how you judge their character.

It's why I never voted for a Clinton - ANY Clinton - for any office; it's also why I didn't support John Edwards. I call it the Sleaze Factor.



And you can tell a lot about a person's character by how they treat their animals.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:55 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Actually, NewOld, I think I heard that said in just the past few years. Would make sense, if so, given it's a timeless truism!


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Saturday, June 23, 2012 2:32 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Actually, NewOld, I think I heard that said in just the past few years. Would make sense, if so, given it's a timeless truism!




My dear, I would NEVER comment on the age of a lovely lady, but I surely thought you were my age, tho' in much better condition.

I remember it from MY misspent youth, applied to the President from San Clemency.

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 6:08 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)






The 1960 campaign was before my time, but I can still remember people using this slogan in '72. And if anything, it was even more true in '72 than it was in '60!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 7:22 PM

HERO


Romney's horse used drugs so he can't be President...Barrack Obama used drugs, well that's a horse of a different color!

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 7:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Wow. I don't think I've seen anything quite so incoherent since little Rappy's last post.

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 8:23 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


This only proves romney will make a fine president in charge of administering massive doses of pain meds to our 1-million disabled troops.

Quote:

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Reagan was shot by VP CIA director George Bush's cousin 3 months later...

Quote:

Hours before Casey was scheduled to testify before Congress related to his knowledge of Iran-Contra, he was reported to have been rendered incapable of speech, and was later hospitalized. In a 1987 book, Veil: The Secret Wars of the CIA 1981-1987, Washington Post, reporter, and biographer, Bob Woodward, who had interviewed Casey on a number of occasions for the biography, said that he had gained entry into Casey's hospital room for a final, four-minute encounter—a claim which was met with disbelief in many quarters as well as an adamant denial from Casey's wife, Sofia. According to Woodward, when Casey was asked if he knew about the diversion of funds to the Nicaraguan Contras, "His head jerked up hard. He stared, and finally nodded yes."[9]







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Sunday, June 24, 2012 4:20 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:




The 1960 campaign was before my time, but I can still remember people using this slogan in '72. And if anything, it was even more true in '72 than it was in '60!



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy



Yepper, that's our boy!
I'd forgotten how perfect the smile and the glint in his eyes looked.

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Sunday, June 24, 2012 8:21 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Wow. I don't think I've seen anything quite so incoherent since little Rappy's last post.


You don't find it odd? Romney under attack because he trainers gave his horse pain meds. President Obma used drugs, himself not his horse. Proof? Obama, you magnificent bastard! I read your book!

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Sunday, June 24, 2012 10:06 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Romney's horse used drugs ..."

Yes, that drug-addled horse, going from crack-house to crack house just to get high ...

What the trainers did was FRAUD. They doped up an animal to make it look like it was in good shape in order to get a lot more money than they would otherwise have gotten. And while it may have been the trainers who did it, it was the Romneys who garnered the cash. Since the trainers were acting on the Romneys' behalf, and under their authority, it does reflect on the Romneys. Somehow, in all your lawyerly wisdom, you completely missed the salient legal issues.


"Barrack Obama used drugs, well that's a horse of a different color!"

Last I checked, no one fraudulently sold Obama and pocketed the money.

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Sunday, June 24, 2012 3:44 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki
What the trainers did was FRAUD. They doped up an animal to make it look like it was in good shape in order to get a lot more money than they would otherwise have gotten. And while it may have been the trainers who did it, it was the Romneys who garnered the cash. Since the trainers were acting on the Romneys' behalf, and under their authority, it does reflect on the Romneys. Somehow, in all your lawyerly wisdom, you completely missed the salient legal issues.
.


The Romney's were the victims of that fraud. The trainers were hiding the condition of the horse from both parties. This is pretty common in third party fraud situations.

H.

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Sunday, June 24, 2012 3:53 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"The Romney's were the victims of that fraud. The trainers were hiding the condition of the horse from both parties. This is pretty common in third party fraud situations."

Really? Who got the money from the sale?

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Monday, June 25, 2012 5:47 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, NewOld, I have no problem with my age being known, I'm 63 and if I'm in better shape than you, omigawd, you must be a MESS! I've got about ten physical problems, and it's a guess which one(s) will show up on any given day. Most of the time I can't walk very far, so I spend a lot of time in my recliner, making signs for Occupy Marin or playing with my hanging plants.

Pretty amazing, isn't it, that an "attorney" like Hero can, knowing few of the actual facts, determine who's innocent and who's guilty. I still don't believe he's a lawyer, and every time he makes these statements, it only convinces me more. Nobody knows whether the Romneys were complicit in the drugging of the horse, BUT, as I posted elsewhere, he claimed her current horse as a $77,000 BUSINESS DEDUCTION, which kinda makes one think he'd do whatever's necessary to increase his profits. So it's fair to wonder, in my opinion...


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Monday, June 25, 2012 4:36 PM

HERO


Quote:


Really? Who got the money from the sale?


The sale was not the point of the fraud. It was to conceal from both parties the true value of the horse. The trainers were responsible to the Romney family, they failed to maintain the horse and failed to inform them of its condition. The fraud was to conceal their failure.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Monday, June 25, 2012 5:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


That's called being an inept employee - not fraud.

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Monday, June 25, 2012 7:08 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:


Really? Who got the money from the sale?


The sale was not the point of the fraud. It was to conceal from both parties the true value of the horse.



For what purpose? TO *SELL* THE HORSE.

You're even stupider than you seem if you think that the fraud had nothing to do with the sale of the horse.


Quote:

The trainers were responsible to the Romney family, they failed to maintain the horse and failed to inform them of its condition. The fraud was to conceal their failure.



The trainers are in this case Romney's employees. If you pay an employee to do a job, and he perpetrates a fraud in the course of doing that job, and you make out like a bandit because of that fraud, are you suggesting that you have no liability at all for that fraud that was perpetrated in your name by your paid employee for your gain?

You have a very skewed view of fiscal and personal responsibility...



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:42 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
The trainers are in this case Romney's employees. If you pay an employee to do a job, and he perpetrates a fraud in the course of doing that job, and you make out like a bandit because of that fraud, are you suggesting that you have no liability at all for that fraud that was perpetrated in your name by your paid employee for your gain?


So if you take your car to a mechanic, he replaces your nice new engine with substandard used parts, then later you decide to trade the car in without revealing (cause you don't know) that its full of crap...you are guilty of fraud?

That's absurd.

And you don't know how horse trainers work. They are not paid employees of the horse owners any more then the mechanic is the paid employee of the car owner.

So why would horse trainers who have allowed a horse's health (and value) to deteriorate want to hide that fact from the people who likely have numerous other horses (and friends with horses) in their care? Huge mystery I guess. Huge.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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