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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Although a lot of people would be relieved if it drops to 22,623 before rebounding.


Perhaps I should point out, here in the moment: these are the days of making the largest gains in funds. Buying at a discount of 6% can get an easy gain on bounce back, in a matter of days instead of the 55 days it recently took to scale this mountain of stock value.
And if it can drop to 22,623 then the rebound can only be reasonably expected to be 5% to 10% of the all-time high, so buying at the end of Monday could still result in a loss.
But regardless, whenever the market hits the best bargain price, that is when the common trader has the greatest opportunity to grow their funds. Although this volatility is just noise, the potential for growth is far greater than days of a couple hundred point gains.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Alright, so let's take a moment to explore the scenario if the Libtard view actually wasn't a delusion.

Their premise is that the real actual value of the Market is represented by Dow 15,000.
So then 26,616 is an actual overevaluation of 11,616 - or 177% of the true value. That may well be a historical record.
So if Dow goes no higher than that during this cycle, then a drop to 22,623 will signal onset of a Bear Market cycle. The rebound will go to about 23,954 - 25,285 range and then drop. A Bear Market drop always bottoms far below the true value of a stock, so the Dow would at this point bottom out around 8,000 - 12,000. The would represent a drop of 55% - 70%. Such a large drop gives investors plenty of time or range to recognize the drop and exit their stocks, before the bottom price is available to buy back in for massive gains - doubling or tripling your fund value. Unless the Libtard duplicates 2008 and keeps all their money in the Market until they've lost 60% of their life savings. So what are the Libtards panicking about? Their scenario provides the best possible outcome for their funds!

By comparison OTOH, if the Libtards are delusional and the Stock Market is the Real World, then a couple extreme possibilities can be presented.
One is that, for no reason, the current high of 26,616 remains the peak of this cycle. The drop to trigger remains the same as above, as well as the rebound range. But then the bottom would be more like 17,740 (67%) or we could hope for 13,300 (50%). The discount price for buying back in would not be as big of a bargain, plus the time of range of drop would be more brief, so exiting the fund would be more time critical, allowing for less dilly-dallying. And then the recovery gains would only be 30 - 50%.
The other possibility would be that the explanation for Obamanomics which I posted earlier in this thread are correct. The Market will continue to climb, for up to 8 years, before moving to Bear Market.
By that time most folk would have forgotten about Libtard delusional theories.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Dow closed today at 23,533. A drop of 1.7% today. This is 11.6% off the Record All-Time High. Hard to beat a discount price like this to buy in at. Buffet must be buying like crazy about now.
The Dow closed at 23,860 on 8 February.
Dow closed at 23,539 on 4 November 2017.
Dow closed at 23,516 on 3 November 2017.

Today Trump signed the Cramnibus Spendaholic bill, largest spending bill in history, to last until September if this year, 6 months from now.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Although a lot of people would be relieved if it drops to 22,623 before rebounding.


Perhaps I should point out, here in the moment: these are the days of making the largest gains in funds. Buying at a discount of 6% can get an easy gain on bounce back, in a matter of days instead of the 55 days it recently took to scale this mountain of stock value.
And if it can drop to 22,623 then the rebound can only be reasonably expected to be 5% to 10% of the all-time high, so buying at the end of Monday could still result in a loss.
But regardless, whenever the market hits the best bargain price, that is when the common trader has the greatest opportunity to grow their funds. Although this volatility is just noise, the potential for growth is far greater than days of a couple hundred point gains.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Dow closed today at 26,656. This is a new Record All-Time High. The first since 26 January.


S&P500 closed at 2,930. This is a new Record All-Time High.

NASDAQ closed at 8,028. This is the 5th highest close, the other 4 posting in the past Month.



For those striving to lose money during the easiest, most predictable portion of the Market cycle, your time has passed. It is too late to sell at the low prices of the past 8 months. If you sold out of the Market today you would have attained the highest price in history, completely foiling the plans to lose money like the contributors to this thread.

If you were able to sell out at lower prices during the past 8 months, you can now buy at the highest price ever, thereby solidifying your losses.

Only last week some were encouraging you to lose money by proclaiming that there was NOWHERE ELSE TO GO BUT DOWN, although the Market has gone nowhere but up since those predictions.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Dow closed today at 26,656. This is a new Record All-Time High. The first since 26 January.


S&P500 closed at 2,930. This is a new Record All-Time High.

NASDAQ closed at 8,028. This is the 5th highest close, the other 4 posting in the past Month.



For those striving to lose money during the easiest, most predictable portion of the Market cycle, your time has passed. It is too late to sell at the low prices of the past 8 months. If you sold out of the Market today you would have attained the highest price in history, completely foiling the plans to lose money like the contributors to this thread.

If you were able to sell out at lower prices during the past 8 months, you can now buy at the highest price ever, thereby solidifying your losses.

Only last week some were encouraging you to lose money by proclaiming that there was NOWHERE ELSE TO GO BUT DOWN, although the Market has gone nowhere but up since those predictions.

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You sound to me just like those people who told me that I was foolishly wasting my money on rent and that buying a house (at all time high prices) was the best investment anyone could make. Those that didn't outright lose their houses are to this day paying off a much larger monthly mortgage payment than they would have if they had waited for the crash.

I'll start putting money in to a 401k soon since I get a 100% match on 5% after one year. My immediate 100% return will sit there in the least aggressive account possible and I should have a big lump sum to throw in there after the DOW crashes.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
If that is what it sounds like, you are not hearing very well.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
If that is what it sounds like, you are not hearing very well.

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I can't wait. One more month and I get to start putting some money in there and getting that 5% match. Hell... I might even start maxing out my contributions regardless and just let it sit in what would essentially be a 2nd checking account until the market crashes and I can buy at the bottom.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
If that is what it sounds like, you are not hearing very well.

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I can't wait. One more month and I get to start putting some money in there and getting that 5% match. Hell... I might even start maxing out my contributions regardless and just let it sit in what would essentially be a 2nd checking account until the market crashes and I can buy at the bottom.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Are you doing Tax Deferred? You will want to evaluate which funds in your investment family drop with the Market, and which do less so. You want to know this from evaluation before any drop happens, not during or after. Some investment families do not allow any diversity, so there is no point in using those families.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
If that is what it sounds like, you are not hearing very well.

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I can't wait. One more month and I get to start putting some money in there and getting that 5% match. Hell... I might even start maxing out my contributions regardless and just let it sit in what would essentially be a 2nd checking account until the market crashes and I can buy at the bottom.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Are you doing Tax Deferred? You will want to evaluate which funds in your investment family drop with the Market, and which do less so. You want to know this from evaluation before any drop happens, not during or after. Some investment families do not allow any diversity, so there is no point in using those families.

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I believe that my only option will be tax deferred.

I haven't looked at what options are available to me in the company's 401k plan. I'm sure they can vary pretty wildly from company to company. Where i used to work they had 3 or 4 levels of investment, varying from pretty mild to very aggressive. But they also had another option which was essentially a money market account that bared almost 0% interest. This was the fund that we were forced into after the company buyout only months before the stock market crash that saved me from losing my ass right before I got laid off.

I'm hoping my company has a fund like that where I can let this sit until the market crashes again. It's too late for me to buy in now.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
If that is what it sounds like, you are not hearing very well.

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I can't wait. One more month and I get to start putting some money in there and getting that 5% match. Hell... I might even start maxing out my contributions regardless and just let it sit in what would essentially be a 2nd checking account until the market crashes and I can buy at the bottom.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Are you doing Tax Deferred? You will want to evaluate which funds in your investment family drop with the Market, and which do less so. You want to know this from evaluation before any drop happens, not during or after. Some investment families do not allow any diversity, so there is no point in using those families.

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I believe that my only option will be tax deferred.

I haven't looked at what options are available to me in the company's 401k plan. I'm sure they can vary pretty wildly from company to company. Where i used to work they had 3 or 4 levels of investment, varying from pretty mild to very aggressive. But they also had another option which was essentially a money market account that bared almost 0% interest. This was the fund that we were forced into after the company buyout only months before the stock market crash that saved me from losing my ass right before I got laid off.

I'm hoping my company has a fund like that where I can let this sit until the market crashes again. It's too late for me to buy in now.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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This would be great, but you should not assume it to be the case. One place I recently worked had the Union get rid of these runds, ensuring that every employee would lose money from their Retirement Funds, regardless of which fund you chose.

BTW, Tax Deferred is best, unless you are wealthy or have some similar unusual situation.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
If that is what it sounds like, you are not hearing very well.

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I can't wait. One more month and I get to start putting some money in there and getting that 5% match. Hell... I might even start maxing out my contributions regardless and just let it sit in what would essentially be a 2nd checking account until the market crashes and I can buy at the bottom.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Are you doing Tax Deferred? You will want to evaluate which funds in your investment family drop with the Market, and which do less so. You want to know this from evaluation before any drop happens, not during or after. Some investment families do not allow any diversity, so there is no point in using those families.

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I believe that my only option will be tax deferred.

I haven't looked at what options are available to me in the company's 401k plan. I'm sure they can vary pretty wildly from company to company. Where i used to work they had 3 or 4 levels of investment, varying from pretty mild to very aggressive. But they also had another option which was essentially a money market account that bared almost 0% interest. This was the fund that we were forced into after the company buyout only months before the stock market crash that saved me from losing my ass right before I got laid off.

I'm hoping my company has a fund like that where I can let this sit until the market crashes again. It's too late for me to buy in now.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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This would be great, but you should not assume it to be the case. One place I recently worked had the Union get rid of these runds, ensuring that every employee would lose money from their Retirement Funds, regardless of which fund you chose.

BTW, Tax Deferred is best, unless you are wealthy or have some similar unusual situation.

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I don't assume anything when it comes to my money. :)

I can't really say anything about my options right now, but I'm going to look into it this week. I have 2 or 3 more pay periods before I'd be getting the match, but I'm considering putting the rest of my paychecks directly into it for the year since I won't need them. That way I could avoid the federal taxes for as much as possible above 12k, and that's 3.5% less state taxes I'd be paying on whatever I put in there too... but only if there is one of those safe places to put them that would be untouched by anything that happened in the market.

My plan would be to have as much in there as possible whenever the market takes a crap. I'm actually hoping that it stays up for a long time. Maybe 6 years if Trump gets reelected? The longer we go before the inevitable crash, the more I could have in there to buy low is the way I figure it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Do you know what you plan to look for? I recently went through it with some people and was surprised how easily snookered some were.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Do you know what you plan to look for? I recently went through it with some people and was surprised how easily snookered some were.

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You'll have to be a bit more specific with that question because I don't know exactly what you're asking me.


Here's what I do know.

I'll get a 100% return on the first 5% I put in there beginning in November. This match is not vested until I work with the company for 3 more years after that. It's also not retroactive, so any additional money I put in this year will not be matched and it will only be on the first 5% going forward.

I have to pay SSI/MC on every dollar I make and nothing gets shielded from that.

Limits to how much you can put into a 401k in a year are nearly $3,000 more than I will make this year.

Anything over $12k will be taxed federally at 10%. Everything over $1k will be taxed at 4.8% for state and local. If I were to put everything over $12k in there from now until the end of the year, I'm looking at a tax savings of roughly $450.


My company match would only be a maximum of around $90 from when I'm eligible until the end of the year, and added with the tax savings if I put the rest of my money into the 401k would be about $540 earned.



The EIC won't be a thing for me this year. I was looking to see how much I could gain by putting the rest of my cash into the 401k for the year, but the EIC has a limit on both your taxable wages and your AGI, and it will be compared to whichever is higher, so even putting money away will still only net me a couple bucks here if anything at all.




If you have any suggestions, I'm more than happy to hear them.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
This is not my answer, but you made me recall a question. Does the match apply only to 5% of your base pay (40 hours), or to 5% or all your pay, including OT? This is different between companies.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Dow closed today at 26,651. That is the 3rd highest Close in history.


S&P 500 closed at 2,924. That is the 3rd highest Close in history.

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Dow closed today at 26,651. That is the 3rd highest Close in history.


S&P 500 closed at 2,924. That is the 3rd highest Close in history.

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I conjure that this continuing run plus the pillaging of the US (our) treasury, is why that fat pumpkin is still in office.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
This is not my answer, but you made me recall a question. Does the match apply only to 5% of your base pay (40 hours), or to 5% or all your pay, including OT? This is different between companies.

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I don't know for sure, but I've never felt the need to look into that. As is typical with the retail sector, except for extremely rare cases, OT is highly frowned upon and could be grounds for termination if you do it too often. I doubt I'll ever see any OT pay.

I'm going to assume that the 5% would be for OT pay as well. The only reason I'm going to make that assumption is that this doesn't really effect me. If I ever did get any, it would be such a small amount that 5% of it would be negligible.




So.... you said that this wasn't your answer. Could you clarify your question for me so I can answer it?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
So I started the 401k. Only what they're matching me for now until I see the match and make sure everything is set up right. Put it in a money market fund that has a .22% return over the last 5 or 10 years.

You never followed up. Thoughts?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Do you know what you plan to look for? I recently went through it with some people and was surprised how easily snookered some were.

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You'll have to be a bit more specific with that question because I don't know exactly what you're asking me.


Here's what I do know.

I'll get a 100% return on the first 5% I put in there beginning in November. This match is not vested until I work with the company for 3 more years after that. It's also not retroactive, so any additional money I put in this year will not be matched and it will only be on the first 5% going forward.

I have to pay SSI/MC on every dollar I make and nothing gets shielded from that.

Limits to how much you can put into a 401k in a year are nearly $3,000 more than I will make this year.

Anything over $12k will be taxed federally at 10%. Everything over $1k will be taxed at 4.8% for state and local. If I were to put everything over $12k in there from now until the end of the year, I'm looking at a tax savings of roughly $450.


My company match would only be a maximum of around $90 from when I'm eligible until the end of the year, and added with the tax savings if I put the rest of my money into the 401k would be about $540 earned.



The EIC won't be a thing for me this year. I was looking to see how much I could gain by putting the rest of my cash into the 401k for the year, but the EIC has a limit on both your taxable wages and your AGI, and it will be compared to whichever is higher, so even putting money away will still only net me a couple bucks here if anything at all.




If you have any suggestions, I'm more than happy to hear them.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Wow. Thanks for all of that.

My stuff is small potatoes compared to your examples. I'll be putting about 35 bucks in every two weeks with a match. Less than 2,000 in a year and I'm starting at zero.

I'm really not too concerned about anything as long as the money I put in there comes out ahead of inflation and any check cashing and closing fees when the market crashes, so with the match I'll have probably around 35-40% of the value to lose if I only put in what gets matched until then before I lose my own money.

It looks like you're right though. I don't think my 401k offers any "cash" option. I must have been confusing that with my old IRA. The closest thing we have is a fund that aims to stay worth $1.00, but it does have a disclaimer that this might not hold true. It's only around 7 years old.

I'll have 35 bucks in there on this check if it started immediately. I don't get the match until next month. I'm going to have to look deeper into it before I think about maxing my contributions for the rest of the year. I did find out that the max you can put in is only 50% of your paycheck, so I wouldn't be able to dodge all the taxes I thought I would now anyhow.

Thanks for the tips and I will be referencing this post when I do my research.



Oh... and yes. I do understand what you're talking about with the graphs. I'm sure I would have figured that out on my own when looking into them, but thanks for giving me a heads up to look for it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I've seen funds with that $1 plan, all of them less than 9 years old. I would avoid them. Think about if you created that fund. You could collect other people's money, invest for the past 7 years, more than tripling your money, but never need to pay back any of it to investors in order to maintain that flat curve, and then when the Market eventually does go Bear, just say Oops! and close the fund, walking away with gobs of money made off of other people's money. I'm not even sure if that is a crime, and people less Fiscally Literate than you are considering giving that fund their hard-earned money. That is even more profitable than a Ponzi Scheme, and perhaps Legal.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Sure. I'm going to take this seriously even though there isn't a lot of money in there. My goal during any bear markets would be to at the very least keep 100% of my contributions and the company match. If I could actually somehow make money off of that while I'm just starting out that would be great.

I will definitely be treating this as an educational experience as well. I didn't actually learn much while I was in the market the last time. I got in at a great time, made close to 30% on my investments year after year for 5 years at a place that was paying me a lot of money, matching 6% at 100%, and putting in a large profit sharing bonus on top of it. Then as if by some higher power intervention we got bought out and all of my winnings were put into a new company and on "hold" right before the bottom fell out and I didn't lose a dime of it.

Well.. I guess to say I didn't learn anything wasn't true. I did learn that you should never gamble with money that you need. I also learned that I'm not Wall Street hot shot and I didn't know nearly as much as I thought I did.

My extreme luck during that cycle was one of 3 major things that I contribute my current excellent situation to. Even though I was making great money at the time and I did a really good job of saving a lot of it, I never would have been able to afford my home 2 years after I was laid off if I hadn't done so well in the market.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I've seen funds with that $1 plan, all of them less than 9 years old. I would avoid them. Think about if you created that fund. You could collect other people's money, invest for the past 7 years, more than tripling your money, but never need to pay back any of it to investors in order to maintain that flat curve, and then when the Market eventually does go Bear, just say Oops! and close the fund, walking away with gobs of money made off of other people's money. I'm not even sure if that is a crime, and people less Fiscally Literate than you are considering giving that fund their hard-earned money. That is even more profitable than a Ponzi Scheme, and perhaps Legal.

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I was actually thinking about this after reading your post and replying to it yesterday.

If they can't guaranty that they will keep the fund at least $1.00, then why the hell should I be putting my money in there when it never goes much over $1.00.

I've got about $38 in there right now since my check went through and I was able to verify that it is set up right. I'm going to do my research and decide where I want to put the money going forward before my next check.

Thanks for the info.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
6ix, I am not sure if you are aware of this practice.

Let's say you put in either all or half of your regular contribution, into a gaining fund - pretend you have DJIA Index available.

Periodically, you can evaluate what percent that fund increased since the last time you transferred, and take that percent, that amount of gain, and hide it in your Safe Fund.
You could do that every 6 months or so, or when you hear the Market has hit a peak, such as this past January, and again in August.
With this method, you let some of your money ride, accumulate gains, and then tuck it away invulnerable to Market loss because it is in your Conservative fund, which you expect to lose less value than the riskier funds.
If you put 100% of your contribution in, your gains are double, and then secreted away with minimal risk/exposure. If you put 50% in each as contributions, then your thinking might be that the risky half is the matching half, and yet you still Coup those gains and hide them in your Safe Fund - thus supplementing the "your original money" half.

Some people refer to that collecting of frothed peak as Profit Taking. Which is preserving their gains.

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