REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Dow @ 20K. Time to jump off!

POSTED BY: JO753
UPDATED: Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:54
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 37211
PAGE 4 of 23

Wednesday, January 3, 2018 8:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


And the further away from a self sustainable life for the lower 50% every day!

Yay!

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, January 4, 2018 8:39 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow futures are trading over 25,000 at the moment.

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Thursday, January 4, 2018 8:40 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Good way to put it, 6string.

HEY! Therez an idea!

Insted uv all the seperate welfare programz or even a GBI (garranteed basic income), just giv all the poor peepl stock sharez!

The Dow will probably exeed 25,000 today and if the bubble duznt pop now, maybe it never will! 30, 40 50 .... 100 thouzand!!! Just keep rizing till we break the planet.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Thursday, January 4, 2018 9:56 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
OK. Jump off wen it gets to 25K.

Sorry you had to wait 78 days, but Dow is currently trading over 25,000.

Anybody who took your advice to Jump Out at 20K has just missed out on 25% gain, in less than a year. Most people have not and will not see that again in their lifetimes.

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Thursday, January 4, 2018 5:10 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow closed at 25,075 today. The Dow had never traded above 25,000 before today.

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Thursday, January 4, 2018 5:53 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Well... I did have a great job with a 401k and 100% company match until about a year after Obama was elected.:)

I wasn't aware so many were refusing to participate in retirement funds, but I shouldn't be surprised.
I don't even remember the last time I heard of a job without 401k.

I want to thank you browncoats for informing me about the lack of availability and participation of 401Ks. I have also been helping some coworkers regarding this.

For the past 3 decades my employers have been in WI and now MI. Maybe some state laws make company managed 401K offers beneficial to businesses, but that is where it seemed most jobs had 401Ks or similar available. I have not looked at jobs elsewhere, so did not know. The media sampling I've had also gave no clue to the dearth of this benefit.

For those not aware, I will point out a large advantage to putting your money in a tax-deferred account . this would likely not apply to Second, and 6String may already be familiar with it. If it makes sense, spread the info to your friends and family.
If you do not place your money in a tax-deferred environment it will be taxed at the highest rate available for your income level, likely 25% or 35% for many of you. So if you want to contribute/shelter $10,000 you would save $2,500 - 3,500 this past year - instead of giving it to Congress to spend as wisely as they know how to.
If you do place it in tax-deferred status, then you will pay income taxes on it in the year when you siphon funds from the account. WHEN YOU ARE RETIRED. Think of this in terms of today's dollars: how much money do you plan to spend each year when retired? That is how much you will withdraw, and expose to income taxes. A person this coming year who pulls out $12,000 will pay no Federal Income Tax on it, if that is the total of their income for the year. $20,000? About $800 of Fed Income Tax. You will be choosing how much Income Tax to pay based upon how much money you expose via withdrawal from your account.
So, pay $5,000 - $7,000 Tax on $20,000 during your peak or highest earning years now, or pay $800 on the same $20,000 when you choose to withdraw it. In the meantime, that extra 20-30% gets to work in n your account, growing during the interim years.

So the question becomes: how much do you need when you are retired? Your house would likely be paid off (mortgage). Without work needs, your food, clothing, transportation costs should be less. Likely no obligations for education.
How much can you spend fishing all day?
Sitting on the porch?
Learning to play golf, checkers, crochet, card games?
How much gas will you need for your fishing boat?

Likely you won't need the same amount you are earning right now, so At that time you'll be in a lower Tax bracket and pay far less taxes when you withdraw your funds.

Does this make sense to you all? It seems this is the point that many don't understand. And it must be addressed now. Once you thrown away your income to Washington, it's gone, you cannot get it back. You must choose now to save it now, so it will be there later.

I hope this helps.

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Friday, January 5, 2018 5:01 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow closed at 25,295 today. Over 220 point gain in one day.

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Friday, January 5, 2018 8:56 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Well... I did have a great job with a 401k and 100% company match until about a year after Obama was elected.:)

I wasn't aware so many were refusing to participate in retirement funds, but I shouldn't be surprised.
I don't even remember the last time I heard of a job without 401k.

I want to thank you browncoats for informing me about the lack of availability and participation of 401Ks. I have also been helping some coworkers regarding this.

For the past 3 decades my employers have been in WI and now MI. Maybe some state laws make company managed 401K offers beneficial to businesses, but that is where it seemed most jobs had 401Ks or similar available. I have not looked at jobs elsewhere, so did not know. The media sampling I've had also gave no clue to the dearth of this benefit.

For those not aware, I will point out a large advantage to putting your money in a tax-deferred account . this would likely not apply to Second, and 6String may already be familiar with it. If it makes sense, spread the info to your friends and family.
If you do not place your money in a tax-deferred environment it will be taxed at the highest rate available for your income level, likely 25% or 35% for many of you. So if you want to contribute/shelter $10,000 you would save $2,500 - 3,500 this past year - instead of giving it to Congress to spend as wisely as they know how to.
If you do place it in tax-deferred status, then you will pay income taxes on it in the year when you siphon funds from the account. WHEN YOU ARE RETIRED. Think of this in terms of today's dollars: how much money do you plan to spend each year when retired? That is how much you will withdraw, and expose to income taxes. A person this coming year who pulls out $12,000 will pay no Federal Income Tax on it, if that is the total of their income for the year. $20,000? About $800 of Fed Income Tax. You will be choosing how much Income Tax to pay based upon how much money you expose via withdrawal from your account.
So, pay $5,000 - $7,000 Tax on $20,000 during your peak or highest earning years now, or pay $800 on the same $20,000 when you choose to withdraw it. In the meantime, that extra 20-30% gets to work in n your account, growing during the interim years.

So the question becomes: how much do you need when you are retired? Your house would likely be paid off (mortgage). Without work needs, your food, clothing, transportation costs should be less. Likely no obligations for education.
How much can you spend fishing all day?
Sitting on the porch?
Learning to play golf, checkers, crochet, card games?
How much gas will you need for your fishing boat?

Likely you won't need the same amount you are earning right now, so At that time you'll be in a lower Tax bracket and pay far less taxes when you withdraw your funds.

Does this make sense to you all? It seems this is the point that many don't understand. And it must be addressed now. Once you thrown away your income to Washington, it's gone, you cannot get it back. You must choose now to save it now, so it will be there later.

I hope this helps.



This is all true. I've mentioned before that if I'm still at my current place of employment that I would throw in money up to the 6% company match for an instant 6% return, but that's because I have a very unique situation where I don't have a rent or mortgage, but I work a shitty job. Even if I got promoted it's not likely that I would make more than the 25k necessary to even begin getting Federal taxes. And you still have to pay the 15.30% for Social Security and Medicare before you put it away.

More than 50% of Americans make less than the federal poverty level. I couldn't even tell you how many of them are mired in credit card debt. All of them?

Putting away anything is next to impossible for a majority of Americans, even if their employer offers a 401k.



On top of the benefits that you mentioned though, it should also be noted that when you apply for benefits like food stamps, even if your state asks for the amount you have in retirement accounts it will not count against you. For instance, Indiana will not give you food stamps if you have over $2k in the bank (as an individual). You could have a million dollars in retirement accounts though and still get them.

Also, if you ever go bankrupt, they cannot take anything from your retirement accounts. They are protected like your home and 1 car is.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, January 5, 2018 10:52 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Arent you going to explain the downside, JSF?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 7:25 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Arent you going to explain the downside, JSF?



I don't know which downside you're thinking of J0, but I did think of one for people putting the money in that have a low income. It's actually something that would effect me most likely.

I thought I was going to put enough in to maximize my company match of 6%, but that depends entirely on whether or not I'm making more money next year.

It's foolish to lock my money into something that will have a 10% penalty to get a 6% match if the money would have been less than what would be taxed federally.

I'll only put in for the 6% match if all 6% of that is income above $12,000 next year. That way if I take it out early, I'm just paying the taxes I avoided when I pay the 10% penalty.

(NOTE: I don't gamble anymore. Any money I put in would be strictly to dodge taxes and to get extra money from my employer. It would be put in the lowest earning funds with the absolute least amount of risk. Anything with zero risk/zero return would be ideal).

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 9:20 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Arent you going to explain the downside, JSF?

I don't know which downside you're thinking of J0, but I did think of one for people putting the money in that have a low income. It's actually something that would effect me most likely.

I thought I was going to put enough in to maximize my company match of 6%, but that depends entirely on whether or not I'm making more money next year.

It's foolish to lock my money into something that will have a 10% penalty to get a 6% match if the money would have been less than what would be taxed federally.

I'll only put in for the 6% match if all 6% of that is income above $12,000 next year. That way if I take it out early, I'm just paying the taxes I avoided when I pay the 10% penalty.

(NOTE: I don't gamble anymore. Any money I put in would be strictly to dodge taxes and to get extra money from my employer. It would be put in the lowest earning funds with the absolute least amount of risk. Anything with zero risk/zero return would be ideal).

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Almost. If you put 10,000 in a year ago in a moderate risk fund, mirroring DJIA, it would be about $13,330 now. A 10% penalty for pulling out $10K would be $1,000 - gettibg you $9,000 of original money plus leaving $3,330 incthe fund. Or pull out $11,111 and get $10,000 plus still have $2,199 in the fund. Or pull out all $13,330 and get $11,997 after penalty.
Plus if your company matched $10,000 you still have that $13,330 remaining in your fund - essentially $15,330 or more of free money after your transactions, set to grow more until you retire. (I think most matching plans do not allow withdrawal before retirement of the matching funds, just what you put in.) All from a $10,000 back and forth transaction.
How would those be undesirable?


From your above post, at least majority of Americans have priorities, having their gamephone, latest DVDs, latest games, and the best chocolates or Cheetos.

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 9:23 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Arent you going to explain the downside, JSF?

downside to avoiding taxes, even with a no-risk fund?
Libtards will become despondent about not contributing their fair share to Government Waste, corruption and Abuse. But they'll make up for it by becoming dependent upon free Government handouts, just like they've always hoped for.

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 10:02 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

(NOTE: I don't gamble anymore. Any money I put in would be strictly to dodge taxes and to get extra money from my employer. It would be put in the lowest earning funds with the absolute least amount of risk. Anything with zero risk/zero return would be ideal).

I see why you think least risk is best, but the second richest man in the world, who made most of it in the US stock market, has a slightly different take on how the market actually works: This is illustrated by the bet's outcome over its first year, 2008. Buffett's S&P 500 index fund lost 37% . . .

Still, Buffett's logic holds true in any market. Some funds will win, some funds will lose, but the fee structure puts investors at an inherent disadvantage. It's also worth pointing out that the market historically has had far more positive than negative years -- over the past 50 years, the S&P 500 has produced a negative total return just 10 times -- so the hedging "advantage" doesn't come into play too often. Read the details at
www.fool.com/investing/2018/01/03/warren-buffett-just-officially-won-h
is-million-dol.aspx


Or here: www.cnbc.com/2018/01/03/why-warren-buffett-says-index-funds-are-the-be
st-investment.html

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 10:08 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Buffet's life and living is gambling. He's really good at it.

I just got lucky. I made a killing in the market. Especially in the small window of time I was investing. I did better than the DOW has done since Trump was president.


My home is paid for. Once I upgrade a few things and get a new used car that I can rely on again, most of my money is going into my house. If I had a crystal ball, it would be a different story.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 10:18 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Buffet's life and living is gambling. He's really good at it.

I just got lucky. I made a killing in the market. Especially in the small window of time I was investing. I did better than the DOW has done since Trump was president.

My home is paid for. Once I upgrade a few things and get a new used car that I can rely on again, most of my money is going into my house. If I had a crystal ball, it would be a different story.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Warren Buffett knows that when the stock market is crashing is a great time to buy more of a S&P 500 index mutual fund. The chickens are running away and hawks swoop down to pick up stock cheaply. Eventually, since you are not taking the money out your 401K until you retire, the stock market will recover. You would look like a genius if you had steadily invested your money as the market crashed in 2008. You will be a genius if you continue to invest during the next market crash, even if all the chickens squawk to take your money out of the S&P 500 Index fund and place it in a nice, safe moneymarket fund.

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 10:31 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Warren Buffett knows that when the stock market is crashing is a great time to buy more of a S&P 500 index mutual fund. The chickens are running away and hawks swoop down to pick up stock cheaply. Eventually, since you are not taking the money out your 401K until you retire, the stock market will recover. You would look like a genius if you had steadily invested your money as the market crashed in 2008. You will be a genius if you continue to invest during the next market crash, even if all the chickens squawk to take your money out of the S&P 500 Index fund and place it in a nice, safe moneymarket fund.



When the market crashed in 2008, I got really lucky that my company was bought out and froze our accounts in the transition to a new 401k provider for 3 months. It happened only weeks before the bottom fell out. Before that I had 4+ years of 22-30% gains. I would have lost almost 50% of what was in there if I stayed in for a year.

After the crash, I got laid off, then I bought a rehab/foreclosure for little over 1/3rd what the previous owner paid for it in 2005. Now it is valued at over 60% more of what I paid for it.

As of now, it's already paid for itself in the rent/mortgage that I haven't been paying on it since I bought it. So.... essentially I still have all of that money, but it's just somewhere else now. It also pays dividends every month because of the rent/mortgage that I'm not paying somebody else.
Not only that, but I didn't have any income to invest since 2008. By sometime in the 1st or 2nd quarter of 2018 I should have finally earned what i used to in a single year before the late 2009 layoff.


Dare I say that at least in the micro-cosom of my insignificant life, my returns beat that of even Warren Buffet. Strictly percentage-wise speaking.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 11:31 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Warren Buffett knows that when the stock market is crashing is a great time to buy more of a S&P 500 index mutual fund. The chickens are running away and hawks swoop down to pick up stock cheaply. Eventually, since you are not taking the money out your 401K until you retire, the stock market will recover. You would look like a genius if you had steadily invested your money as the market crashed in 2008. You will be a genius if you continue to invest during the next market crash, even if all the chickens squawk to take your money out of the S&P 500 Index fund and place it in a nice, safe moneymarket fund.


When the market crashed in 2008, I got really lucky that my company was bought out and froze our accounts in the transition to a new 401k provider for 3 months. It happened only weeks before the bottom fell out. Before that I had 4+ years of 22-30% gains. I would have lost almost 50% of what was in there if I stayed in for a year.

After the crash, I got laid off, then I bought a rehab/foreclosure for little over 1/3rd what the previous owner paid for it in 2005. Now it is valued at over 60% more of what I paid for it.

As of now, it's already paid for itself in the rent/mortgage that I haven't been paying on it since I bought it. So.... essentially I still have all of that money, but it's just somewhere else now. It also pays dividends every month because of the rent/mortgage that I'm not paying somebody else.
Not only that, but I didn't have any income to invest since 2008. By sometime in the 1st or 2nd quarter of 2018 I should have finally earned what i used to in a single year before the late 2009 layoff.


Dare I say that at least in the micro-cosom of my insignificant life, my returns beat that of even Warren Buffet. Strictly percentage-wise speaking.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

if you had stayed in from Feb 2008 to Mar 2009, the market lost more than 50%, the Dow dropping from about 14,000 to under 6,000.

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 11:47 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Buffet's life and living is gambling. He's really good at it.

I just got lucky. I made a killing in the market. Especially in the small window of time I was investing. I did better than the DOW has done since Trump was president.

My home is paid for. Once I upgrade a few things and get a new used car that I can rely on again, most of my money is going into my house. If I had a crystal ball, it would be a different story.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Warren Buffett knows that when the stock market is crashing is a great time to buy more of a S&P 500 index mutual fund. The chickens are running away and hawks swoop down to pick up stock cheaply. Eventually, since you are not taking the money out your 401K until you retire, the stock market will recover. You would look like a genius if you had steadily invested your money as the market crashed in 2008. You will be a genius if you continue to invest during the next market crash, even if all the chickens squawk to take your money out of the S&P 500 Index fund and place it in a nice, safe moneymarket fund.

Wisdom does not beget genius.
My friends and co-workers got out in Feb 2008 and gained about 3%/APR until buying back in around March 2009. Not all of them are genius.
You are saying it takes a genius to invest in Feb 2008 and watch it fall more than 50% in value. And do so every month. Buying in summer 2008 would still get you a 30-40% loss. Buying in fall or winter would still have you lose 20%. That would be as absolutely the dumbest genius I have ever heard of, let alone met. Unless you mean Libtard Genius, where I would need to agree with you.
It was much wiser to pull out with 90-95% of the prior maximum value, then get back in when values were about 43% of prior max, then let values grow by about 300% as of a month ago.
I would grant that a genius is one who got out in Oct 2007 instead of Feb 2008, but I don't know anybody who did that intentionally for that purpose.
I felt I did well to gain 35% between Feb 2008 and Mar 2009 while the market was dropping.

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 11:48 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Wow.. this thread hasn't aged very well, has it?



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 12:00 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Wow.. this thread hasn't aged very well, has it?

A debate over his mental competence is not one that Trump should want. He should be talking relentlessly about the rising stock market, the economy, the companies giving their employees bonuses because of the tax cut he shepherded to passage.

Instead, Trump was tweeting on Saturday about how very, incredibly, stupendously smart he is.

"Throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart," tweeted Trump. "Crooked Hillary Clinton also played these cards very hard and, as everyone knows, went down in flames. I went from VERY successful businessman, to top T.V. Star to President of the United States (on my first try). I think that would qualify as not smart, but genius....and a very stable genius at that!"

Debating whether he is a) smart b) mentally competent or c) in a state of mental deterioration is a stone-cold loser for him. Strategic politicians fight only on ground that is favorable for them. Or they steer conversations or debate to ground that is favorable to them. And the "I am really a very smart genius" fight is not one that has a "win" for Trump.

Why fight it then? Because Trump's secret strategy is that there is no strategy.

For people who doubt it, remember this: Trump never planned his days as a businessman. As he explains on the first page of "The Art of the Deal," he liked to let the day come to him -- no planned meetings, no set agendas. Just let the day unfold and sort of wing it.

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 12:35 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Warren Buffett knows that when the stock market is crashing is a great time to buy more of a S&P 500 index mutual fund. The chickens are running away and hawks swoop down to pick up stock cheaply. Eventually, since you are not taking the money out your 401K until you retire, the stock market will recover. You would look like a genius if you had steadily invested your money as the market crashed in 2008. You will be a genius if you continue to invest during the next market crash, even if all the chickens squawk to take your money out of the S&P 500 Index fund and place it in a nice, safe moneymarket fund.


When the market crashed in 2008, I got really lucky that my company was bought out and froze our accounts in the transition to a new 401k provider for 3 months. It happened only weeks before the bottom fell out. Before that I had 4+ years of 22-30% gains. I would have lost almost 50% of what was in there if I stayed in for a year.

After the crash, I got laid off, then I bought a rehab/foreclosure for little over 1/3rd what the previous owner paid for it in 2005. Now it is valued at over 60% more of what I paid for it.

As of now, it's already paid for itself in the rent/mortgage that I haven't been paying on it since I bought it. So.... essentially I still have all of that money, but it's just somewhere else now. It also pays dividends every month because of the rent/mortgage that I'm not paying somebody else.
Not only that, but I didn't have any income to invest since 2008. By sometime in the 1st or 2nd quarter of 2018 I should have finally earned what i used to in a single year before the late 2009 layoff.


Dare I say that at least in the micro-cosom of my insignificant life, my returns beat that of even Warren Buffet. Strictly percentage-wise speaking.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

if you had stayed in from Feb 2008 to Mar 2009, the market lost more than 50%, the Dow dropping from about 14,000 to under 6,000.



LOL... I guess I stopped counting. I was out and I was happy.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 12:40 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I would grant that a genius is one who got out in Oct 2007 instead of Feb 2008, but I don't know anybody who did that intentionally for that purpose.
I felt I did well to gain 35% between Feb 2008 and Mar 2009 while the market was dropping.



Like I said, looking back on hindsight, I don't feel that I was a genius at all. I was in and out at the right time and lady luck intervened at a critical time of my life. It could have very easily gone the other way right before I was laid off.

I'd say that I've done about a 300% return on my investment since I got out if you consider how long I've been living off of either nothing or basically nothing and my home is worth just about what I had in holdings when I lost my job.


I'm no longer playing the game because I don't need to. Any job I work for the rest of my life in my situation is really at least $5-8 more per hour than what I'm actually making just because I don't have to pay rent. That number only goes up when I work part time, which is what I've done when I actually do work.

Good luck to you all. I really hope that you cash out before the major crash inevitably comes. And it will come.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 3:35 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by second:


For people who doubt it, remember this: Trump never planned his days as a businessman. As he explains on the first page of "The Art of the Deal," he liked to let the day come to him -- no planned meetings, no set agendas. Just let the day unfold and sort of wing it.





Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 5:51 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Wow.. this thread hasn't aged very well, has it?



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

not sure I understand your meaning. Referring to reality backfiring on the OP?

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 6:11 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Hind site iz 20 20. Obviously I wuz rong about 20,000, but nobody coud hav predicted that by calculation unless they are insiderz manipulating the market. For the rest, its pure luck and the oddz are getting worse all the time.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Saturday, January 6, 2018 9:49 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

not sure I understand your meaning. Referring to reality backfiring on the OP?



Exactly. Anyone should have known that merely doing 3 things.... reducing regulations, dropping the Corp tax rate and opening up drilling was going to have a net boost to the economy. Despite his twitter antics and drama, the stock market likes this administration just fine in year 1.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 7, 2018 12:25 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

not sure I understand your meaning. Referring to reality backfiring on the OP?



Exactly. Anyone should have known that merely doing 3 things.... reducing regulations, dropping the Corp tax rate and opening up drilling was going to have a net boost to the economy. Despite his twitter antics and drama, the stock market likes this administration just fine in year 1.



Okay, but does that explain the dramatic record breaking increases?

Is Trump the most pro-Corporate President that ever existed?

If that's the case, and the job situation doesn't start reflecting the trajectory of the DOW, I'm going to quickly be finding myself on the other side of this argument when the dust settles. I won't be with the trolls screaming Russia every five seconds, but I'm going to be anti-Trump like I was anti GWB.

I'm starting to think that the DOW exists only to make well off American Citizens root against those less fortunate than they are.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, January 7, 2018 9:27 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
not sure I understand your meaning. Referring to reality backfiring on the OP?



Exactly. Anyone should have known that merely doing 3 things.... reducing regulations, dropping the Corp tax rate and opening up drilling was going to have a net boost to the economy. Despite his twitter antics and drama, the stock market likes this administration just fine in year 1.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

Anyone? You seem unfamiliar with the Libtard mindset. Reality is what they consider a delusion.

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Sunday, January 7, 2018 9:49 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Okay, but does that explain the dramatic record breaking increases?



The Dow Jonez Industrial Averaj wuz well into fantasy land long befor Trump won.

Its speculation based on optimizm, fear and greed, but there iz a core reality - the actual value uv the publicly traded companyz. Even tho its an elusiv number, therez a limit to how far from it the fantasy can drift befor a rude awakening will occur.

Quote:

I'm starting to think that the DOW exists only to make well off American Citizens root against those less fortunate than they are.


A great statement! Food for thot.


----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Sunday, January 7, 2018 8:16 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Okay, but does that explain the dramatic record breaking increases?


The Dow Jonez Industrial Averaj wuz well into fantasy land long befor Trump won.

An excellent example.
Delusion is their reality. When confronted with reality, they consider that to be a delusion.
Referring here to Jump Off, not 6.

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Monday, January 8, 2018 12:32 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Dow closed at 25,295 today. Over 220 point gain in one day.

This post us from last Friday.
That is an increase of 5,563 since taking office. A gain of 28.2% in 350 days, or 29.4% APR.

And an increase of 6,913 since Election Day. A gain of 38% in 423 days, or 32.8% APR.

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Monday, January 8, 2018 8:42 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Okay, but does that explain the dramatic record breaking increases?


The Dow Jonez Industrial Averaj wuz well into fantasy land long befor Trump won.

An excellent example.
Delusion is their reality. When confronted with reality, they consider that to be a delusion.
Referring here to Jump Off, not 6.



He's got a valid point about the actual value of the publicly traded companies though.

To put it in other words, do you really believe that a single bitcoin is worth $16,000+? Most people that own one couldn't even begin to tell you what it even is, let alone why it's worth that much.


Speculation, more often than not, is not a good thing.

When these big companies are being publicly traded, they're slaves to their shareholders. This is how businesses get six sigmad to the point that the workers lose all of their benefits to maintain the bottom line so the shareholders can get paid. Essentially, the DOW is a vehicle for syphoning the meager wealth of the workers at the bottom of the pyramid to the rich assholes at the top who need that money the least.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 4:05 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Okay, but does that explain the dramatic record breaking increases?

The Dow Jonez Industrial Averaj wuz well into fantasy land long befor Trump won.

An excellent example.
Delusion is their reality. When confronted with reality, they consider that to be a delusion.
Referring here to Jump Off, not 6.

He's got a valid point about the actual value of the publicly traded companies though.

To put it in other words, do you really believe that a single bitcoin is worth $16,000+? Most people that own one couldn't even begin to tell you what it even is, let alone why it's worth that much.


Speculation, more often than not, is not a good thing.

When these big companies are being publicly traded, )

Do you really believe that every publicly traded company was worth only 60% of its currently trading value? Libtards believe that Obamination constriction was the real world, that their value in Oct 2016 was exorbitantly excessive and they should have been at 40% - 50% of their currently traded value.
If you truly believe this, then you need to be retested for Libtard deficiency.
When faced with real world numbers Obamabots believe that their delusion of market value was the real world and real world trading is the delusion of non-Obamabots.
Those who can see the real world understand that we are now In the real world, and understood that for 8 years of Obamanomics we were stuck in a delusion.

Does bitcoin represent gobs of employees? Does bitcoin represent goods and services being produced every day? What is the market symbol for bitcoin, as it is traded within the Dow Jones Industrial Average?

Which of "these big companies" are represented by bitcoin?

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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 4:12 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
not sure I understand your meaning. Referring to reality backfiring on the OP?

Exactly. Anyone should have known that merely doing 3 things.... reducing regulations, dropping the Corp tax rate and opening up drilling was going to have a net boost to the economy. Despite his twitter antics and drama, the stock market likes this administration just fine in year 1.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

The Tax Cuts thread seems to be faring about the same. Libtard Delusions being assaulted on all sides by reality, a pity.

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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 4:15 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow closed today at 25,385.


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Tuesday, January 9, 2018 8:48 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Do you really believe that every publicly traded company was worth only 60% of its currently trading value? Libtards believe that Obamination constriction was the real world, that their value in Oct 2016 was exorbitantly excessive and they should have been at 40% - 50% of their currently traded value.
If you truly believe this, then you need to be retested for Libtard deficiency.
When faced with real world numbers Obamabots believe that their delusion of market value was the real world and real world trading is the delusion of non-Obamabots.
Those who can see the real world understand that we are now In the real world, and understood that for 8 years of Obamanomics we were stuck in a delusion.



Apparently you don't have any idea what the DOW is. Do a little bit of research and ask me the question again without threats of labeling me a libtard.

Quote:

Does bitcoin represent gobs of employees?



No it doesn't. It shows the wildly fluctuation world of speculation.

The last time this happened in the DOW a lot of people lost everything and we still haven't recovered from it. It wasn't a lesson that we learned all that long ago. You would do better to remember it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:30 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Do you really believe that every publicly traded company was worth only 60% of its currently trading value? Libtards believe that Obamination constriction was the real world, that their value in Oct 2016 was exorbitantly excessive and they should have been at 40% - 50% of their currently traded value.
If you truly believe this, then you need to be retested for Libtard deficiency.
When faced with real world numbers Obamabots believe that their delusion of market value was the real world and real world trading is the delusion of non-Obamabots.
Those who can see the real world understand that we are now In the real world, and understood that for 8 years of Obamanomics we were stuck in a delusion.

Apparently you don't have any idea what the DOW is. Do a little bit of research and ask me the question again without threats of labeling me a libtard.
Quote:

Does bitcoin represent gobs of employees?

No it doesn't. It shows the wildly fluctuation world of speculation.

The last time this happened in the DOW a lot of people lost everything and we still haven't recovered from it. It wasn't a lesson that we learned all that long ago. You would do better to remember it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

The last time the Dow gained 36% of all new all-time high territory within a year?
When, praytell, was this?
And how did "everybody" lose all their money with the Dow gaining 35%?
I'm not as familiar with the details of 1929 - is this the recent history of which you speak? Surely not 1987?

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Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:41 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The last time the Dow gained 36% of all new all-time high territory within a year?
When, praytell, was this?



I didn't give those specific parameters. You just did.

Ask the Lehmann Brothers how much their company was really worth before the collapse.

Quote:

And how did "everybody" lose all their money with the Dow gaining 35%?
I'm not as familiar with the details of 1929 - is this the recent history of which you speak? Surely not 1987?



Ask all of the people who lost their homes around that time.

Ask all of the people who were late in their working career or already retired and got wiped out when it was too late to sit back and wait for the recent surge.

Don't ask me. I actually did well because of equal parts good investing and luck.


The economy and the REAL employment rate has been SHIT ever since though. I'm just lucky I'm in my position, or I'd pretty much be fucked for the rest of my life.

Kudos to you for being in the right place at the right time though and not feeling any of the fallout.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, January 10, 2018 11:57 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


If you had enuf info, you coud figure out exactly wen the crash will happen.

It will happen wen sumwun or sum group at the top gain maximum advantaj.

Google knowz wen, but it wont tell us.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Wednesday, January 10, 2018 4:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
If you had enuf info, you coud figure out exactly wen the crash will happen.

It will happen wen sumwun or sum group at the top gain maximum advantaj.

Google knowz wen, but it wont tell us.
m

Shirley, et well bee won the Dow gits two 20K.

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Thursday, January 11, 2018 6:25 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow closed today at 25,574.

Further Libtard proof that 18K was vastly overvalued.

A gain of 5,842 since taking office 356 days ago. Which is 29.6%, or 30.4% APR.

A gain of 7,242 since Election Day. Which is 39.5% in 429 days, or 33.6% APR.

Moving so fast, difficult to keep track of the milestones flying by.

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Thursday, January 11, 2018 6:53 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
LOL... at this point, I have to start agreeing with JO. If I did have money in aggressive funds, it would be time to start putting it into much safer investments. The world in general is far too volitile right now, and I think we're due for a major correction. I don't see any reason why the DOW should be doing this well. Regardless of who's president, this just reeks of "bubble".

And speaking of bubbles... how the fuck is BitCoin over 10,000 bucks today? If I sunk all the money I had into bitcoin this time last year when I was watching videos about it and considering it, I would be set for life.

And you bet your ass I'd be selling every single one of them right now and not feeling bad if it continues to go up more before that comes crashing down. HARD.

There are a lot of people who are getting into that game way too late, and they're going to lose A LOT of money.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Wow.
You could have bought bitcoin on 29 Nov and gained 60% in 40 days?

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Thursday, January 11, 2018 7:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
And its not like the orijinal reazon haz to be truly important. All that haz to happen iz investorz start to notis that the wale iz moving, then the smaller fish will follow and in a flash its a stampede, then an avalanche that takes down everything.

A possible trigger just happened. The Senate passed Trump's debt exploder bujet. Hoo cannot see the parallel to Bush jr'z wakadoodle financial poliseez?

Libtards as Nostradamus is really just comedic.

That was 21 Oct, with the Dow at 23,328.

A gain of 2,250 in the 82 days since, near 10% gain.

The sky is falling trope was old before I was born.

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Thursday, January 11, 2018 7:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Not sure what you're getting at there JSF. Nobody is going to tell me that they've got a winning system in the market. I believe that as much as I believe people who say the same thing with slot machines.

I've got a 401k next year that the company will match 100% of the first 6% of pay. That will be 100% gains just putting the money in there, on top of avoiding 10% tax penalty on anything that goes in as well. I figure between that and an HSA I should shelter most of my income from the lowest tax bracket tax next year. It's all going into safe funds though. I'm getting too old to gamble, and my money is a lot harder earned that it was when I won a lot on the market.


Tax breaks and company matches are the only sure things in the market. Anybody else telling you otherwise is selling you snake oil.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

On the way to becoming a millionaire (actually it is $1,066,757), if you invested in Vanguard mutual funds in the last 27 years, there were 6 years when you lost money or barely broke even. 2018 could be another losing year. You never know.

https://adviseronline.investorplace.com/portfolio/
Beginning Value: $50,000 Jan 1, 1991
Present Value: $1,066,757 Dec 1, 2017

Current Performance
Y.T.D. 21.5%
1-yr 23.3%
3-yr 10.5%
5-yr 15.3%

2016 9.6%
2015 1.4% a poor year
2014 10.9%
2013 34.2%
2012 14.3%
2011 -1.4% a minus year
2010 14.3%
2009 34.4%
2008 -38.4% a minus year
2007 10.0%
2006 18.4%
2005 11.4%
2004 15.7%
2003: 32.0%
2002: -17.8% a minus year
2001: -6.4% a minus year
2000: 20.4%
1999: 36.3%
1998: 23.5%
1997: 23.2%
1996: 16.6%
1995 26.1%
1994: -0.2% a minus year
1993: 16.6%
1992: 6.1%
1991: 28.9%


I suspect none of those included a 10% gain in 80 days as response to an Obama Budget being passed. Oh, wait! Obama never passed any Budget? How irresponsible!! Are only Presidents of Color allowed to be this irresponsible?

BTW, that link indicates 22.4% performance for 2017. Should have Jumped Off at 20K.

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Friday, January 12, 2018 4:07 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Dow closed at 25,803 today.

9 days ago the record high close was 24,922.

On Monday, 18 Dec the Dow closed at all-time record high of 24,792.
It looks like the next day Congress passed Tax Reform.
So, a gain of 1,011 in the 24 days since Tax Reform. Which is 4%, or 62% APR.

JO indicated Trump's Budget was passed around 19 Oct, when the Dow closed at 23,163.
So an increase of 2,640 in the 85 days since then. An 11.4% gain, or 49% APR.

An increase of 6,071 since taking office. A 30.8% gain in 357 days, or 31.5% APR.

An increase of 7,471 since Election Day. A 40.8% gain in 429 days, or 34.7% APR.

Reminder: in Obamination's first 2 years, with Democrap controlled Congress working to kill the economy, the Dow gained 16% total. None of that in Record All-Time High territory, so it was the easiest, gimme period in a cycle to make gains.
After the adults regained control of Congress, Obamination strangled the economy enough to only allow the Dow to eek out a total 72% gain in 6 years, most of that still in the easiest, gimme portion of the cycle. Trump has accomplished half of that before his first year in, and all of it in Record High territory, the most difficult period of any market cycle.

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Friday, January 12, 2018 5:02 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
The stock market has tended to drop when just about everyone thinks the good times will never end. Some people think we’re hitting “peak giddiness” now. Consider these stats:

63 percent of Americans believe the stock market will be higher a year from now…This is the highest level ever recorded by the survey…60 percent of market experts are bullish and only 15 percent are bearish…The P/E ratio, a widely watched gauge of how expensive the market is, has topped 21 for the Dow…It was 20 heading into the 1987 crash.

Venture capital looks giddy. The stock market looks giddy. Housing prices look giddy.

www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/10/the-economy-sure-looks-headed-f
or-a-fall
/


This gem was posted 20 Oct, the day after a record close of 23,163.
C'mon, motherjones? You're not even trying to pretend to have a serious discussion.
Are you going to roll out Hilliary's cookie recipe next?

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Friday, January 12, 2018 5:29 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



This clearly isn't going to the MSM's script.



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Friday, January 12, 2018 5:34 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

This clearly isn't going to the MSM's script.



Did all their spin doctors quit? They used to dream up all kinds of Hollywood stories to explain away reality.

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Friday, January 12, 2018 7:50 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I'm pretty sure that motherjones is a parody news site.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, January 12, 2018 8:35 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm pretty sure that motherjones is a parody news site.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

How can you tell the difference? Politico, CNN, motherjones, they all have the same stuff. When they started copying stories from The Onion I had hoped it was just a fad.

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