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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Bully
Friday, May 11, 2012 7:40 AM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Mitt Romney is struggling to get beyond a story about the time he bullied a gay student at a boarding school four decades ago. The story, reported by the Washington Post, gained traction and credibility as Romney's high school friends spoke on the record to corroborate the account of the candidate as a teenager cutting a gay student's hair while he was pinned to the ground. "I saw it with my own eyes," Phillip Maxwell, a lawyer who was Romney's high school pal at the elite Cranbrook School in Michigan, told ABC News. "It was a hack job ... clumps of hair taken off." Romney said in interviews on Thursday that he didn't remember cutting off John Lauber's hair while the student cried. He laughed off questions about it but also apologized for "dumb things" he did in high school and claimed that homosexuality was the furthest thing from his mind.
Friday, May 11, 2012 8:01 AM
CAVETROLL
Quote: Washington Post Changes Romney Bullying Story Without Issuing a Correction 11:36 PM, MAY 10, 2012 • BY MARK HEMINGWAY The Washington Post's Mitt Romney was a teenage bully story has caused a lot of media thumbsucking today. However, questions about the story itself keep emerging. The Post acknowledges that one of the major sources for the story was an Obama campaign volunteer in 2008. Beyond that, the paper's been less than transparent. Here's the orginal version of the story: “I always enjoyed his pranks,” said Stu White, a popular friend of Romney’s who went on to a career as a public school teacher and has long been bothered by the Lauber incident.” However, Matt Lewis of The Daily Caller noted that White told ABC News a different version of the story: White was not present for the prank, in which Romney is said to have forcefully cut a student’s long hair and was not aware of it until this year when he was contacted by the Washington Post. After ABC News's report, the Post had changed its story. It now reads: “I always enjoyed his pranks,” said Stu White, a popular friend of Romney’s who went on to a career as a public school teacher and said he has been “disturbed” by the Lauber incident since hearing about it several weeks ago, before being contacted by The Washington Post. “But I was not the brunt of any of his pranks.” Emphasis added. That is a pretty substantive change to the story, yet nowhere does the Post note that a correction/clarification has been made. In addition, the Post story quotes the older sister of Romney's alleged bullying victim at the very end of the piece. Yet, when she was contacted by ABC News and asked for comment she was not happy with how her brother had been portrayed: She added she and her sisters will likely put out a statement later via a family attorney. “If he were still alive today, he would be furious [about the story],” she said with tears in her eyes.
Friday, May 11, 2012 8:03 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Friday, May 11, 2012 8:07 AM
STORYMARK
Quote:Originally posted by CaveTroll: Are you the same person you were 45 years ago?
Quote:45 years ago. Weak. Hey, let's talk about Obama's admitted cocaine use.
Friday, May 11, 2012 8:22 AM
CHRISISALL
Friday, May 11, 2012 8:32 AM
Quote:Christine Lauber, the older sister of Romney’s classmate, John Lauber, claims she has no knowledge of the bullying incident involving her brother, who passed away from liver cancer in 2004. When ABC News showed Christine the story, she became agitated and somewhat emotional. “Even if it did happen, John probably wouldn’t have said anything,” she said. “If he were still alive today, he would be furious [about the story].”
Quote:“The family of John Lauber is releasing a statement saying the portrayal of John is factually incorrect and we are aggrieved that he would be used to further a political agenda,” she said. “There will be no more comments from the family.”
Quote:One of Mitt Romney’s closest friends and a high school classmate has been asked by the Romney campaign to come out and offer “supporting remarks” in defense of the candidate following a Washington Post article that described pranks at the Cranbrook School in the 1960s that focused on a student who was “presumed” to be gay. Romney has denied that the pranks were targeted. Romney’s older brother Scott called White, asking him to act as a surrogate for Romney on their high school years. White, in an interview with ABC News, said that he is “still debating” whether he will help the campaign, remarking, “It’s been a long time since we’ve been pals.” According to White, he knows of several other classmates that have also been approached by the campaign to counter the article. White declined to name the fellow classmates. One former classmate and old friend of Romney’s – who refused to be identified by name – said there are “a lot of guys” who went to Cranbrook who have “really negative memories” of Romney’s behavior in the dorms. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/romney-friend-stu-white-says-campaign-wants-him-to-counter-prank-accusations/ makes some valid observations on it:Quote:Perhaps Romney is being completely sincere. But the Post confirmed the story with five witnesses, four of whom described it on the record, so there seems little doubt about whether it occurred. They were deeply troubled by their participation in it, and recall it vividly to this day. A candidate who has struggled with seeming human, as Mitt Romney has, could have done himself a favor by using this as an opportunity to show a little more of himself. He could have said: Yes, it happened. It was stupid and cruel. I wish I could go back and undo it. But part of growing up is realizing where you failed when you were young, and learning from your mistakes so you can become a better person. Most importantly, Romney could have said something that indicated he had a conception of how horrible the assault must have been for John Lauber, the victim. His only mention of Lauber, who died in 2004, was to say "I had no idea what that individual's sexual orientation might be." By referring to Lauber as "that individual" he makes Lauber a nameless figure, further distancing himself from the incident. Which is exactly the opposite of what he should have done. After all, it's the quality of empathy -- being able to see things from someone else's perspective and feel what they feel -- that Romney has had trouble convincing voters he possesses. This problem comes up for Romney again and again, often in the form of "gaffes" that are usually taken out of context, but still reveal a tin ear for the lives people lead. Perhaps Romney really doesn't remember the assault on John Lauber nearly a half-century ago, despite the fact that so many of the other people who were there have never forgotten it. Or perhaps he decided that claiming ignorance would be the safest course of crisis management. But what he said told people nothing about the man he is today and how he has changed and grown over that time. We're all different people than we were in our youth, and we all have regrets. The 17-year-old Mitt Romney may have been a privileged, entitled boy with a mean streak. The 65-year-old Mitt Romney missed an opportunity to convince us he's something different.I think that's very astute. As to desperately trying to dig up something Obama did to minimize it, I'll just ask one thing: How many people did Obama's using cocaine hurt? The comparison is fallacious, in other words, and just one more attempt to find something, ANYTHING, to...I'm not sure what, actually. Except look foolish, which I'm sure wsn't the intent.
Quote:Perhaps Romney is being completely sincere. But the Post confirmed the story with five witnesses, four of whom described it on the record, so there seems little doubt about whether it occurred. They were deeply troubled by their participation in it, and recall it vividly to this day. A candidate who has struggled with seeming human, as Mitt Romney has, could have done himself a favor by using this as an opportunity to show a little more of himself. He could have said: Yes, it happened. It was stupid and cruel. I wish I could go back and undo it. But part of growing up is realizing where you failed when you were young, and learning from your mistakes so you can become a better person. Most importantly, Romney could have said something that indicated he had a conception of how horrible the assault must have been for John Lauber, the victim. His only mention of Lauber, who died in 2004, was to say "I had no idea what that individual's sexual orientation might be." By referring to Lauber as "that individual" he makes Lauber a nameless figure, further distancing himself from the incident. Which is exactly the opposite of what he should have done. After all, it's the quality of empathy -- being able to see things from someone else's perspective and feel what they feel -- that Romney has had trouble convincing voters he possesses. This problem comes up for Romney again and again, often in the form of "gaffes" that are usually taken out of context, but still reveal a tin ear for the lives people lead. Perhaps Romney really doesn't remember the assault on John Lauber nearly a half-century ago, despite the fact that so many of the other people who were there have never forgotten it. Or perhaps he decided that claiming ignorance would be the safest course of crisis management. But what he said told people nothing about the man he is today and how he has changed and grown over that time. We're all different people than we were in our youth, and we all have regrets. The 17-year-old Mitt Romney may have been a privileged, entitled boy with a mean streak. The 65-year-old Mitt Romney missed an opportunity to convince us he's something different.
Friday, May 11, 2012 8:38 AM
BYTEMITE
Friday, May 11, 2012 8:41 AM
Quote:Conservatives are hitting back at claims that Mitt Romney in 1965 terrorized a classmate who some presumed to be gay: President Obama was a bully, too! Several right-leaning news outlets are pointing to an excerpt in the President's memoir, "Dreams from My Father," in which Obama details how he teased and shoved a middle school girl named Coretta — the only other black student in his grade. "We have uncovered somebody who has actually admitted to engaging in real inappropriate behavior as a youth," Fox News host Sean Hannity said on Thursday evening. The incident in question began when classmates during recess jeered that Obama was the girl's boyfriend. Obama recounted in his 1995 book, "'She's not my g-girlfriend,' I stammered. I looked to Coretta for some assistance, but she just stood there looking down at the ground. 'Coretta's got a boyfriend! Why don't you kiss her, mister boyfriend?'" He continued, "'I'm not her boyfriend!' I shouted. I ran up to Coretta and gave her a slight shove; she staggered back and looked up at me, but still said nothing. 'Leave me alone!' I shouted again. And suddenly Coretta was running, faster and faster, until she disappeared from sight. Appreciative laughs rose around me. Then the bell rang, and the teachers appeared to round us back into class." Critics are contrasting the story with a report in the Washington Post in which witnesses described Romney bullying a suspected gay classmate when he was in high school. It came out a day after Obama publicly backed same-sex marriage. According to the Post report, which the presumed Republican presidential nominee doesn't dispute, Romney led a pack of students to pin a boy down and forcibly cut his hair. After the piece surfaced, Romney apologized, saying that while he doesn't remember all of his prep school "pranks," if "anyone was hurt by that or offended, obviously I apologize." Conservative website Breitbart.com ran a headline accompanied with the Coretta passage, "Does WaPo know Obama shoved a little girl?" Right-leaning RedState.com and the National Review picked up on the Coretta story, too. Hannity also declared Obama has a "worse record" of behavior, pointing to another excerpt in Obama's memoir in which he describes skipping classes, drinking beer and experimenting with drugs. "That puts Romney and the bully issue to shame," Hannity argued. Fox News' Kimberly Guilfoyle called the Washington Post story a "hit piece." "They had to go back to the 1960s to try and find something bad to say about Mitt Romney," she said. "It's ridiculous — the lengths they’re going to, to try and taint him. They're obviously worried about his candidacy and they should be." http://www.nydailynews.com/news/election-2012/conservatives-counter-claims-mitt-romney-a-bully-obama-worse-article-1.1076353 gotta giggle. It's exactly like our rightie here did, bringing up the cocaine. The difference is, Obama WROTE about what happened; Mitt claims he "doesn't remember". Cop out! Amusingly, it's just as easy to picture what Obama described, only two African-American kids in the school, he's teased, embarrassed, there's no doubt embarrassment at being one of the only two in the school and being teased that she's his girlfriend, trying to deny it, being frustrated by her silence, pushing her to help him deny it--and I can just see the girl, embarrassed as hell, sensitive also to being one of only two African-Americans and being teased, running away from the situation. AND it's so easy to see the campaign, desperately trying to get old classmates to support him, and reaching for SOMETHING to make Obama look worse. Plus the last bit is to laugh: "They had to go back to the 1960s to try and find something bad to say", when they just did PRECISELY the same thing! Politics is funny--sad, but funny! The only serious thing about it, to me, is that bullying is still a very serious thing, and has caused suicides. Aside from the very relvant observations above, Romney could have made himself look SO much better if he'd used it to make a comment on bullying. Three or four misses there, in my opinion.
Friday, May 11, 2012 9:17 AM
Quote:Originally posted by CaveTroll: Are you the same person you were 45 years ago? 45 years ago. Weak. Hey, let's talk about Obama's admitted cocaine use.
Friday, May 11, 2012 9:24 AM
WHOZIT
Friday, May 11, 2012 9:36 AM
Quote:Originally posted by whozit: I WILL LAUGH AT YOUR PAIN! I WILL DRINK YOUR TEARS! http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/05/11/Washington-Post-Romney-Bullying-Profile-Contradicted-By-Automobile-Magazine Everytime you libs think you got Mitt you end up with egg on your faces, just give up, join us on the "Dark Side"
Friday, May 11, 2012 9:43 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Quote:Originally posted by whozit: I WILL LAUGH AT YOUR PAIN! I WILL DRINK YOUR TEARS! http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/05/11/Washington-Post-Romney-Bullying-Profile-Contradicted-By-Automobile-Magazine Everytime you libs think you got Mitt you end up with egg on your faces, just give up, join us on the "Dark Side" Well, at least your dumb ass is capable of recognizing youre on the side of evil. The rest is, as usual, nonsense. I would point out that "seem to" and "infer" are not.... you, know, FACTUAL statements.... or that the article doesn't actually debunk a damned thing (its just written in such a way as to fool those easily fooled, like yourself) but you're not capable of mentally processing such big words, so I'll spare you. "Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
Friday, May 11, 2012 9:48 AM
Friday, May 11, 2012 10:25 AM
Friday, May 11, 2012 10:50 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: And apparently on the cutting edge of investigative journalism. Now we get to know the answers to the real pressing questions - does he use syhtetic oil? Standard or automitic? Does he believe in the power of fuzzy dice hanging from a mirror? Will his car elevator accomodate a Humvee? The people need to know. "Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
Friday, May 11, 2012 11:08 AM
Friday, May 11, 2012 11:33 AM
Quote: Auto Mag does, however, quote Maxwell giving crucial details notably missing from the Post piece: “’I'm a Democrat, so I won't vote for him,’ says Maxwell. 'But he'd probably make a pretty good President. He's very smart, very principled.’” The Post neglected to mention these relevant facts, just as it neglected to mention Maxwell’s skepticism about Romney’s religion as reported in the Auto Mag piece: “‘He’s determined to claim the highest office in the land--to be the first Mormon to do it. He keeps that undercover because he doesn’t want to frighten people.’”
Quote: The Post also creates inferences about Romney that seem to be debunked in the Auto Mag article. Horowitz quotes Matthew Friedemann, the most vocally harsh critic on the Lauber haircutting, in a manner inferring that Romney was a snobbish kid who owned his own car: “When Romney left the campus on weekends, he never invited him. ‘I didn’t quite fit into the social circle. I didn’t have a car when I was 16,’ Friedemann said.”
Quote: To summarize: two current articles based on interviews with some of the same former classmates. But they present two differing and largely inconsistent portraits, with Horowitz's Washington Post either failing to investigate, or deliberately omitting, crucial and relevant information revealed by Murray in Automobile Magazine about Romney's character in high school. It would seem that the Post’s investigative journalism standards leave much to be desired.
Friday, May 11, 2012 5:22 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:14 AM
Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:48 AM
Saturday, May 12, 2012 6:04 AM
Saturday, May 12, 2012 11:58 AM
Saturday, May 12, 2012 12:52 PM
Quote: Shit, do it from a public computer and use dead-end e-mail addresses and such, and you're even less exposed than you think.
Saturday, May 12, 2012 1:17 PM
Saturday, May 12, 2012 3:52 PM
Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:13 PM
PIZMOBEACH
... fully loaded, safety off...
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Oh, please - you can put stuff on a dummy account, and share as much or as little info as you want. And more importantly, you can get your information OUT THERE! The stuff you want to get out, you can. Shit, do it from a public computer and use dead-end e-mail addresses and such, and you're even less exposed than you think. ETA: I'm not talking about putting compromising info for Frem on facebook; I'm talking about putting the links out there among various facebook groups, of which there are plenty, many with viewership in the hundreds of thousands. Frem wants to make this public information about Romney MORE public, get it widely disseminated, and facebook is a great tool for that. Look at what happened with the whole "Kony 2012" thing, Planned Parenthood, and more.
Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:57 PM
Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:05 PM
Quote: Frem has articles that HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED. They are out there. He is not breaking any law in posting said articles to sites with high readership. He is not sharing anyone's personal information, not even his, and it's a chance to get stuff OUT THERE.
Quote:Or just hide in the dark and hope no one notices...
Quote:I've already shared a couple of the articles Frem posted with some well-placed friends, and we'll see where they turn up
Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:09 PM
Quote:particularly when no one can trace it back to anywhere in particular.
Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:24 AM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:37 AM
Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:46 AM
Quote:Originally posted by BYTEMITE: Quote:particularly when no one can trace it back to anywhere in particular. Hmn. I hope so. Still seems like walking into the lion's den wearing a nice tailored suit made outta beef jerky. I suppose to be fair to Kwicko, I should mention that I'm a hypocrite and have a battle.net account. But I still would not touch facebook... I figure that until CISPA passes and takes affect, the only thing someone can take from my battle.net account would be credit card information. Which I'm not sure why I would or should care about that. Facebook seems a lot more dangerous in the implication and tracking side of things.
Sunday, May 13, 2012 2:57 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Ah, I see Geezer's gone back to the old "But... but... OBAMA!"
Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:53 AM
Sunday, May 13, 2012 7:58 AM
Sunday, May 13, 2012 8:05 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Ah, I see Geezer's gone back to the old "But... but... OBAMA!" Let's see. According to the action/response tree, now I'm supposed to say something along the lines of, "But you don't deny Obama's bullying.", and wait for a reply. No. I don't think so.
Sunday, May 13, 2012 8:07 AM
Sunday, May 13, 2012 10:32 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Obama's bullying. let's look at the facts:
Quote:Some kids were teasing Obama (Well, both Obama and Coretta), one of only two African-Americans in the school, about being the boyfriend of the only OTHER African-American in the school, who already had a boyfriend (Where is it indicated that Coretta already has a boyfriend? Per Obama "She was plump and dark and didn't seem to have many friends."). On some levels, doesn't that count as "bullying"? He responded by asking the girl to verify that she WASN'T his girlfriend (No indication of that. Just Obama denying it. ""I'm not her boyfriend" I shouted."); she didn't speak up and the teasing continued. He then gave her a "slight shove" ("...she staggered back and looked up at me, but still said nothing". So either the shove was harder than "slight", or she was shaken by his response.)--and the teasing laughing continued (...as he shouted "Leave me alone" and she ran off to the crowd's laughter.) He wrote about it in a book.
Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:35 PM
Quote:About as silly as the fuss over Romney's actions as a child.
Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:51 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Tell me...
Sunday, May 13, 2012 1:03 PM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Sunday, May 13, 2012 1:17 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Yes. This epidemic of ex post facto bullying must stop. Perhaps Pres. Obama will also apologize for his. http://thetalkofthetimes.wordpress.com/2012/05/10/obama-bullied-a-girl/
Sunday, May 13, 2012 7:52 PM
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
Monday, May 14, 2012 2:31 AM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Quote: Yeah, one teased child giving a "slight shovew" to another teased child is the same as a teen planning and executing an assault on another.
Monday, May 14, 2012 4:06 AM
Quote:Just like putting the boot on the neck of BP
Monday, May 14, 2012 4:27 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: A 'slight shove' doesn't put one on the ground. Ya gotta really push, hard. Obama pushed a girl to the ground. He's a thug and a bully.
Monday, May 14, 2012 4:29 AM
Quote: Pretty silly? Yeah.
Quote: A 'slight shove' doesn't put one on the ground. Ya gotta really push, hard. Obama pushed a girl to the ground.
Monday, May 14, 2012 4:31 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Good gawd, Raptor; you are THAT desperate for attention
Monday, May 14, 2012 5:41 AM
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