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Why people sometimes feel (some) Religion is attacking Freedom

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Monday, May 28, 2012 07:53
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VIEWED: 1547
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Friday, May 25, 2012 5:56 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/08/pastor-who-sparked-outrage-ov
er-hitting-gay-children-speaks-out/?iref=obnetwork


Hello,

I found the sermon described in this article disturbing. I don't think the pastor has successfully explained away his remarks.

However, more disturbing is this:

Quote:

Harris' comments came in a heated environment in the Tarheel State. On Tuesday, voters will cast ballots on Amendment One, which would amend the state constitution to say that "Marriage between one man and one woman is the only domestic legal union that shall be valid or recognized in this State."

While North Carolina already has a law banning same-sex marriage, the passage of the amendment would effectively ban same-sex civil unions and domestic partnerships.



So it wasn't sufficient that homosexuals couldn't marry. It was important to extend the prohibition to civil unions and domestic partnerships as well.

This means that the people who voted for this measure can no longer claim to be protecting the definition of marriage. This can no longer be imagined as an issue of custom. Because they did not stop at marriage, but proceeded to attempt a ban of unions under any name, it is merely an act designed to infringe on the freedoms of the homosexual community.

The mask was thin and transparent, but now it no longer exists.

Crack the wrist, indeed.

--Anthony




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Friday, May 25, 2012 6:29 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I sure don't want to read the sermon, smoke would come out of my ears! But yes, several of these laws expand the ban on same-sex marriage. I forget which one, but there's one that would end up banning commonlaw relationships between heterosexuals as well! It's pretty sickening, all in all.

Then again, it IS North Carolina!

By the way, Billy Graham, in encouraging people to vote for it, said "The Bible is clear – God’s definition of marriage is between a man and a woman." I thought the Bible DIDN'T specify that..does it, in so many words? Just curious.



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Friday, May 25, 2012 6:34 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


And this is just a stone's throw from coming right out and passing laws that say that the only unions that can be legally recognized are the ones that are church-approved.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Friday, May 25, 2012 6:37 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Yep. Freedom, rights, anything at all that their cherry-picked scripture and "morality" disagrees with for any reason. I've met people that I consider Good Christians™ (including you, Anthony) but a lot of them... people like this story describes... are not good Christians, not good people, not people I want anything to do with. And they certainly shouldn't be allowed to pass their beliefs into law, because their sole purpose in life appears to be controlling the lives of others; not to make the world a genuinely better place, but just because they don't like certain behaviors. Arbitrary beliefs like that, as far as I'm concerned, are not moral. They're just about control, for the sake of control.

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Friday, May 25, 2012 6:37 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

By the way, Billy Graham, in encouraging people to vote for it, said "The Bible is clear – God’s definition of marriage is between a man and a woman." I thought the Bible DIDN'T specify that..does it, in so many words? Just curious.




It doesn't, as far as I can find, but even if it did, who the fuck cares what the bible says about anything? We're governed by a Constitution, which doesn't define marriage at all, as far as I can see.







"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Friday, May 25, 2012 6:52 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I found it; it was Colorado:
Quote:

But the bill also includes a radical, unintentional, change—outlawing one form of heterosexual marriage. According to H.B. 1198, a marriage must be "licensed, solemnized, and registered." That language abolishes common-law marriage. So in order to sign a bill intended to uphold old-fashioned marriage, the Governor will also have to destroy a perfectly legitimate form of old-fashioned marriage, whose benefits Colorado residents have enjoyed since Territorial days. http://www.davekopel.com/Misc/OpEds/Op051597.htm that case it was a goof and the legislators didn't read the whole bill, but the result is the same.

There's also a bill in Georgia which would do the same http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=348&dat=19960315&id=W3Qw
AAAAIBAJ&sjid=_TYDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4281,4893807
]

And Texas REALLY screwed up in attempting to ban any kind of same-sex union back in 2009:
Quote:

The amendment, approved by the Legislature and overwhelmingly ratified by voters, declares that "marriage in this state shall consist only of the union of one man and one woman." But the troublemaking phrase, as Radnofsky sees it, is Subsection B, which declares:

"This state or a political subdivision of this state may not create or recognize any legal status identical or similar to marriage."

Architects of the amendment included the clause to ban same-sex civil unions and domestic partnerships. But Radnofsky, who was a member of the powerhouse Vinson & Elkins law firm in Houston for 27 years until retiring in 2006, says the wording of Subsection B effectively "eliminates marriage in Texas," including common-law marriages.

She calls it a "massive mistake" and blames the current attorney general, Republican Greg Abbott, for allowing the language to become part of the Texas Constitution. Radnofsky called on Abbott to acknowledge the wording as an error and consider an apology. She also said that another constitutional amendment may be necessary to reverse the problem.

The constitutional amendment bans all Texas marriages. Please note that neither the Attorney General or the Liberty Legal Institute dispute Barbara Ann's legal analysis. Instead the Attorney General's office says that the AG will defend the constitutionality of a constitutional amendment which appears to ban all Texas marriages.

Abbott spokesman Jerry Strickland said the attorney general stands behind the 4-year-old amendment: "The Texas Constitution and the marriage statute are entirely constitutional," Strickland said without commenting further on Radnofsky’s statements. "We will continue to defend both in court." http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/18/805591/-Texas-marriages-in-le
gal-limbo-w-poll-
I guess in Texas you're not married uless the AG defends it!

Then again, it IS Texas... (sorry Mike)


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Friday, May 25, 2012 6:56 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Bang on, Rose. It IS about control, which is laughable, as we know, coming from the party SO against "government control"!


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Friday, May 25, 2012 7:30 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
The mask was thin and transparent, but now it no longer exists.

There was never a mask. It has been very obvious all along that most opposition to homosexual marriages stems from being "grossed out" by homosexuality.

There are like 3 verses in the entire Bible against homosexuality. There are more verses about proper ways of killing women in Leviticus. You strip all the pretexts and excuses away, and it comes down to: "Gays are icky."



-----
Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~ Plato

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Friday, May 25, 2012 7:30 AM

BYTEMITE


I'm pretty sure North Carolina considers homosexuality sodomy, so in another way of looking at this, isn't all this redundant? They've already criminalized it.

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Friday, May 25, 2012 7:38 AM

BYTEMITE


You know, reading all this makes me wonder why people even NEED to state sanction or religious sanction marriage. All this language about approval from some officiating numbnuts. Our society has moved PAST this noise. There are limits to how much control they have, how much they interfere - they only have as much as we'll let them have.

I'm calling for boycott. Complete. Utter. Revolution. We don't need them. There are enough good souls who struggle with the double standards in the various institutions where unfair treatment is codified to unofficially change it through their actions. Piss them off, they are impotent, ignore the laws, the rules. Take a stand for human decency.

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Friday, May 25, 2012 7:47 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
You know, reading all this makes me wonder why people even NEED to state sanction or religious sanction marriage. All this language about approval from some officiating numbnuts. Our society has moved PAST this noise. There are limits to how much control they have, how much they interfere - they only have as much as we'll let them have.

I'm calling for boycott. Complete. Utter. Revolution. We don't need them. There are enough good souls who struggle with the double standards in the various institutions where unfair treatment is codified to unofficially change it through their actions. Piss them off, they are impotent, ignore the laws, the rules. Take a stand for human decency.




That's the other way to go about it - if you don't want to recognize gay marriage, let's not have government recognize *ANY* marriages, period. Absolutely NO special rights, breaks, or benefits, for anybody, based on their marital status or lack thereof.

Last I saw, there are somewhere around 1000 special privileges and benefits that go with being legally married, which unmarried people have no access to. So let's just do away with all of them, and the ONLY reason anyone would have to get married in the first place is to please their little church, because it would have absolutely no bearing on anything else in life.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Friday, May 25, 2012 7:48 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I'm pretty sure North Carolina considers homosexuality sodomy, so in another way of looking at this, isn't all this redundant? They've already criminalized it.



And the SCOTUS has struck down sodomy laws as unconstitutional, so that argument is obsolete.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Friday, May 25, 2012 7:51 AM

BYTEMITE


Oh, so THAT'S the angle. They can't criminalize it so they're looking for other avenues.

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Friday, May 25, 2012 9:52 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Being one of those blasphemous pagan heretics, it always amuses me in a twisted way to see these same jackasses screaming about threats of having shariah law inflicted upon us even as they try to do much the same themselves.
Kinda like how they block access to education and contraception then scream about the abortions that directly results in, a problem pretending to be it's own solution.

For me, there isn't one goddamn thin dimes worth of difference between the christian right and the fuckin taliban, if even that, because outside of the petty little theological nitpicks even THEY don't care much about, the behavior and intentions are exactly the same.

If it weren't for a rare few like Anthony, I'd be outright calling for returning the favor of the inquisition upon them, and while I might even turn a blind eye were that to happen, I know enough about human nature to know replacing one evil with another is a zero-sum game, if not a negative proposition.

That said, were someone to lynch one or more of these extremist fucks, I'd not lift a finger to intervene.
"I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you."

-Frem

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Friday, May 25, 2012 11:38 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


That said, were someone to lynch one or more of these extremist fucks, I'd not lift a finger to intervene.
"I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you."




And that sums up my attitude towards the Wall Street crowd, too. I'm not going to actively call for them to be killed, but I'll be a happy little capitalist and sell all the guillotines, pitchforks, tar, and feathers I can when the time comes. Free markets can be harsh places, y'know...




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Monday, May 28, 2012 7:53 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I'm fine with civil union and domestic partnership options, for anyone, sexin or not, so this law is too extreme for me.

Quicko is saying what I said recently, maybe the government should just not recognize any marriages, then people can do what they choose and no one can get in disagreements about what the government should or shouldn't recognize as marriage, because they won't be involved in any of it. I'm not "married" to this idea yet but I'm definitely considering it.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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