REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Family net worth plummets nearly 40%

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, June 14, 2012 08:17
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Monday, June 11, 2012 3:50 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thanx everso, Bush, Wall Street bankers and Republicans...
Quote:

The average American family's net worth dropped almost 40% between 2007 and 2010, according to a triennial study released Monday by the Federal Reserve.

The stunning drop in median net worth -- from $126,400 in 2007 to $77,300 in 2010 -- indicates that the recession wiped away 18 years of savings and investment by families.

The Fed study, called the Survey of Consumer Finances, offers details on savings, income, debt, as well as assets and investments owned by American families.

The results, though more than a year old, highlight the marked deterioration in household finances brought on by the financial crisis and ensuing recession.

Much of the drop off in net worth -- to levels not seen since 1992 -- was attributable to a sharp decline in housing values, the Fed said.

In 2007, the median homeowner had a net worth of $246,000. Three years later that number had fallen to $174,500, a loss of more than $70,000 on average.

Families who reside in the west and south, where the housing market was especially hard hit by the recession, were worse off than their peers in the rest of the country.

Making matters worse, income levels also fell during the tumultuous three-year period, with median pre-tax income falling 7.7% as earnings from capital gains all but disappeared.

The loss of income and net worth appears to have impacted savings rates, as the number of Americans who said they saved in the prior year fell from 56.4% in 2007 to 52.0% in 2010 -- the lowest level recorded since the early 1990s. http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/11/news/economy/fed-family-net-worth/inde
x.htm?hpt=hp_t2

I wonder what the net worth of the ultra-rich did during the same time? Oh, right, I remember...

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:37 AM

CAVETROLL


Over 3 years in and it's STILL Bush's fault?!?!?!?!

When does your messiah start taking responsibility. So far he's all credit, no blame. Or, I should say, all brag.

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 4:22 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

I wonder what the net worth of the ultra-rich did during the same time?


Hello,

It depends on whether they invested in real estate. Anyone who was holding real estate took a hit, and a lot of rich people became not so rich. This is especially true if they invested in both concrete real estate and also real estate related stocks. I don't know what qualifies as 'ultra rich' but in my line of work I've seen a lot of folks I consider to be rich suddenly laid low and struggling with income vanishing and credit scores crumbling to dust.

It was kind of weird to see, because when I was growing up, real estate investments were considered safe. In the long run, land values were supposed to gradually rise. But it will be decades in some cases before the value catches up to its formerly inflated levels, and a lot of people can't wait that long because they didn't quite 'own' their investment properties. They had significant loans. Some of them then took loans out on their free-and-clear properties to prop up their investments, hoping to weather the storm. So I've seen people with a real estate empire of fifteen or twenty properties reduced to no properties and going into foreclosure on their homes. These were people with millions in assets, all of it gone.

--Anthony




Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 4:36 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Over 3 years in and it's STILL Bush's fault?!?!?!?!

When does your messiah start taking responsibility. So far he's all credit, no blame. Or, I should say, all brag.



Didya catch the part where the study is dealing with 2007-2010?? That's part of Bush's term, and the beginning of Obama's.... in which he was dealing with the outcome of Bush's moronic policies.

But hey, far be it from me to get in the way of your knee-jerk...

And "messiah".... pardon me, but Jesus. Why don't you just pin your strw man to your shirt like a good toddler?


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 12:29 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


You expected otherwise, Mark? Good old blind partisanship, it sees no evil, hears no evil, speaks no evil of the right...seems like ESPECIALLY when THEIR "messiahs" are wrong. Knee-jerk is so right on; they don't even look at what they're reading, they just jerk (does that make them jerks?).

(Note I put "messiah" in quotes, meaning "not really", as opposed to our righties who keep calling Obama "our" messiah, god, or all the other things I can't remember.)


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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 5:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
You expected otherwise, Mark? Good old blind partisanship, it sees no evil, hears no evil, speaks no evil of the right...seems like ESPECIALLY when THEIR "messiahs" are wrong. Knee-jerk is so right on; they don't even look at what they're reading, they just jerk (does that make them jerks?).

(Note I put "messiah" in quotes, meaning "not really", as opposed to our righties who keep calling Obama "our" messiah, god, or all the other things I can't remember.)

]

Hehe...

My personal Messiahs are simply temporary transitional forms of perfection and beauty... fleeting moments over the decades and centuries like Cleopatra or Marilyn Monroe, or Britney Spears 8 years ago, or Megan Fox 4 years ago, or Selena Gomez today, and whatever characiture of pop-worship makes the mainstream tomorrow....

When it comes to politics, I hang my coat and leave my personal bullshit at the door.

Obama is the worst president we've ever had.

GBW was the worst before, and easily comes in a close second today. As "bad" as he was, Nixon is only wishes he could be the "Wii" to the PS3 and XBox 360 today to those two traitors.




Look in the mirror though.....

I've personally thrived in the "recession" that many lefties are claiming is a depression.

When I was laid off in late 2009, my avergage credit score was 745.

Today, my credit score is 790.

I've only made barely 1,000 bucks this year that wasn't retirement withdrawls, and I begin my new job next week.

I've paid over 4k in taxes this year.... over 4 times what I've made so far, and I'm not on government aid.





I'm lucky i'm not a high school drop out, although in this job market, I may as well be. They'll give any idiot with paper for an associates or bachleors degree a foot in the door before they give it to me, even given my experience....

Companies are panicking....

Good thing I don't have to....

I'll make my $208 bucks a week before taxes and smile....

Sure, it's less than what I need to keep this ship sailing, but without it, I'd be broke by mid-November this year. I can stay afloat for at least 4 more years with this job. If I get a woman here making just what I do, we'd have enough to take an extravagant vacation every year.



Stop blaming the administrations.... (which sounds funny since I hate Obama)

It's not Obama's fault....

It wasn't GWB's fault....

It was YOUR fault...



"Take my advice... do as I say.... save a little money for a rainy day"

A quote from an old Disney cartoon that stuck with me for decades on a holiday where we were able to see Disney Channel cartoons for free even though my parents didn't pay extra for it.



I have ZERO pity for "broke" people today... especially those who still somehow have enough to pay fifty bucks a month for internet access.

Keep complaining.... all the way to Chapter 13, since that's all you'll probably qualify for....

You're one of the many reasons I don't feel bad that I put over 14 K in the bank towards my house while I was on unemployment....

It's time for you to dismount your high horses, and try to make friends with those who are on the bottom that care enough to make a difference.... I can't advise a better place for you to meet these people or friends of these people outside of the RWED of FFF.... that's why we're tagged with Red Flags....



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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 5:31 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


6ix

Do you suppose you could say what you mean in a well-chosen few words? Like

"I, I, I, I, me, I, I, wonderful, I ... and everyone else is a loser."

It would really cut down on the scrolling I have to do, and anyone who reads your posts would get your meaning in a much much shorter time.

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 5:43 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
6ix

Do you suppose you could say what you mean in a well-chosen few words? Like

"I, I, I, I, me, I, I, wonderful, I ... and everyone else is a loser."

It would really cut down on the scrolling I have to do, and anyone who reads your posts would get your meaning in a much much shorter time.



Sorry 1kiki...

If I protest to much for you, then you should move on.

I have a cell phone with the only "perks" being an alarm clock and a flashlight... no text messaging...

Move on...

These aren't the droids you're looking for....

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 5:55 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


well, I'm not drowning in debt - in fact, I have none. Which makes you demeaning people you know nothing about - for example demeaning me over this supposed debt you presumed I have - look petty and foolish.

Just saying you could give your ego a rest, and give the rest of us a break from your endless and very lengthy hosannas to yourself.

BTW - should the economy crash - and I mean REALLY crash in a way we haven't yet seen - you'll find out just how tissue thin your self-reliance is.

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 6:04 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
well, I'm not drowning in debt - in fact, I have none. Which makes you demeaning people you know nothing about - for example demeaning me over this supposed debt you presumed I have - look petty and foolish.

Just saying you could give your ego a rest, and give the rest of us a break from your endless and very lengthy hosannas to yourself.

BTW - should the economy crash - and I mean REALLY crash in a way we haven't yet seen - you'll find out just how tissue thin your self-reliance is.




Hello,

I agree with Kiki about this. The only Americans truly prepared for a complete systems collapse are the Amish.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 6:15 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
well, I'm not drowning in debt - in fact, I have none. Which makes you demeaning people you know nothing about - for example demeaning me over this supposed debt you presumed I have - look petty and foolish.

Just saying you could give your ego a rest, and give the rest of us a break from your endless and very lengthy hosannas to yourself.

BTW - should the economy crash - and I mean REALLY crash in a way we haven't yet seen - you'll find out just how tissue thin your self-reliance is.




Hehe....

Do I post to much....?

Mayhap I do.....

Do I have better things to spend my time and/or money on....?

I'm SURE I do...

Dont hate me because you're one of the few that agree Niki....



Take this as a lesson....

If you have a plethora of gifts to give, don't just mindlessly hand them out for no reason....

Tough times are coming for all of us, no matter how much we make

Hopefully the "system" never crashes....

All I'm saying is that if you have more than you need from second to second, you have something that somebody you care about needs....

Be a bastard about that fact or not... but in the end... if that's where you're sitting, you have the power.

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 6:23 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


And as for the Amish, really, do you think I've never seen the Witness when I was a child?

Who do you both really think you're talking to?

I love dogs, and I love cats, and I love rabbits...

I HATE humans...

In a first person perspective, I only care about blood because I'm supposed to, and given the right incentive I'll end their life....

On top of that, there have been VERY few people who have ever broken that barrier of trust...

My brother can take care of himself, and he's taught me a lot.

I'd take a bullet for her and their future....

My life is full of "things".... meaningless, unconsequenial things...

Whatever....

Remove me from the RWED and there will be a replacement 2 days from now

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 6:51 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


6ix

All I want is for the people I care about to have decent lives after I'm dead and gone.

To that end I would give up everything I have without a moment's hesitation if it would guarantee a fair world. By fair I mean everyone is held to the same standards. You get to keep the full value of your work, no one gets to take it from you as 'profit' or 'interest'. No one holds the power of life and death by having a stranglehold on the resources you need to stay alive - and by resources I mean human resources as well, like work. People live by the ethic of enough, and not more. And the old, young, and disabled are cared for as the valuable creatures they are, neither more nor less deserving of life than any of the rest of us.

I have not one whit of personal interest in dying with the most toys.

Sadly, we must live in the world as it exists. To that end, unless we are born economically fortunate - as neither you nor I were born - we must struggle, we must compete, we must be canny. Sometimes we must even band together with others to fight. Or hive off and create a new world if we can.

I wish it were not so.
.

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Tuesday, June 12, 2012 7:02 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

And as for the Amish, really, do you think I've never seen the Witness when I was a child?

Who do you both really think you're talking to?



Hello,

I'm really not sure what you're talking about.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:16 AM

CAVETROLL


2007-2010 still means half of that loss was under Obama's administration. I'd like to see a nice split on this study. Something that shows where we were when Bush left office compared to today. Not that CNN/Money are likely to ever publish those figures.

But since the most likely drop in net worth comes from housing depreciation, let's take a look at where I was. In 2007 my house was appreciated at $150,000 (It is very small compared to other houses in the area) Today it is estimated at $97,700, 65% of its 2007 value. Fortunately I know what my house was appraised at in 2009. It appraised at $124,500, or 83% of its 2007 value. Close to a 50/50 split between administrations. Yeah, let me just say; "Yes, we can!" No, we can't.

Does anybody else have home appraisals?

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:44 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Home appraisals had a hard time keeping up with the catastrophic depreciation in the market, and ended up being a trailing indicator. Once the bubble burst was firmly recognized, lenders began to decrease the lend-able LTV percentage to compensate for the fact that the homes weren't even worth what the appraisals indicated.

Property tax values, meanwhile, have been unreliable in certain zones due to municipalities seeking to maximize tax revenue during a time of revenue shortfalls.

It's hard to value a home in a dramatically shifting market.

--Anthony





Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Dont hate me because you're one of the few that agree Niki
Not at all sure where THAT comes from. Did I ever say such a thing, or even indicate it? We agree on some things; we disagree on others. Nobody here is important enough in my life to "hate", and the only thing I can think of that is negative in my feelings about you is that you go off (in my opinion) "half-cocked" sometimes.

Cave, I realize you don't want to "get it", but a President coming into office doesn't suddenly mean everything that happens from that moment on is his responsibility. Dubya got us in SUCH a hole that we haven't climbed out of it yet, and probably won't for years to come--if we ever do. So if you're counting 2007-2010, the reasonable thing to do is count 2007-2009 as Bush's years; otherwise, you're saying Obama should have been able to wave a magic wand and make all the badness of the Bush Years disappear immediately. That truly WOULD make him some kind of "messiah", but he's not, never has been, and any of those who thought he could were deluding themselves.

Found a BIT of info in this chart:



I'm sure the facts and figures are easily obtainable through the internet, doesn't matter if the MSM covers it, tho' I think they have several times. MSNBC might not cover it, but I think CNN would and has.

You'll note there are some positive indicators recently:

Homebuilder confidence was up to an 18 months high in November 2011, according to the National Association of Home Builders (NAHB)/Wells Fargo Housing Market Index (HMI).

The number of homeowners who owe more than their homes worth decreased modestly in the third quarter of 2011, though levels remained high.

The mortgage delinquency rate dropped to 10.53% during the year to Q2 2011, down from 11.17% in during the year to Q2 2010, according to the US Federal Reserve Board.
The rental market is expanding.

But we're a LONG way from regaining the ground we lost. Remaining reasons for the decline include high unemployment and high house inventries, combined with foreclosures, all of which resulted from the Bush Crash. You can choose not to recognize those facts, but that doesn't change that they ARE facts.

Some say you can START by blaming Clinton, then add Bush, and "blame" Obama for not fixing in three years what both of them did for over a decade.
Quote:

Add President Clinton to the long list of people who deserve a share of the blame for the housing bubble and bust. A recently re-exposed document shows that his administration went to ridiculous lengths to increase the national homeownership rate. It promoted paper-thin downpayments and pushed for ways to get lenders to give mortgage loans to first-time buyers with shaky financing and incomes. It’s clear now that the erosion of lending standards pushed prices up by increasing demand, and later led to waves of defaults by people who never should have bought a home in the first place.

President Bush continued the practices because they dovetailed with his Ownership Society goals, and of course Congress was strongly behind the push. But Clinton and his administration must shoulder some of the blame. http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/archives/2008/02/cl
intons_drive.html
]


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Wednesday, June 13, 2012 4:22 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Hi Jack, I think Kiki is suggesting you have shorter, more concise posts. Sometimes they do get a little ... rambly? I usually see what you're trying to say underneath, but occasionally, as in the Haken rant, I get lost.

Kiki, you're growing on me, I seem to see more of the beautiful creature inside you and less of the cold exterior that you show the world. Maybe you do that to protect the creature inside who is vulnerable? But I think I see it in you now. Thank you.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 7:33 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Was wondering why nobody seemed interested in the fact that family net worth had lessened by nearly 40%. Carville summed it up nicely for me:
Quote:

Let's imagine that yesterday there was a front page story in The New York Times that read the following:

"The recent economic crisis left the top 1% of Americans in 2010 with no more wealth than in the early 1990s, erasing almost two decades of accumulated prosperity, the Federal Reserve Monday.

"A hypothetical family richer than the median net worth of the top 1% of the nation's families had a net worth of $77.3 million in 2010, compared with $126.4 million in 2007, the Fed said. The crash of the stock market, in addition to the collapse of housing prices in Greenwich, Connecticut, the Upper East Side of New York City, Beverly Hills, Highland Park in Dallas and the North Shore of Chicago, directly accounted for three-quarters of the loss."

What do you think the reaction would be to that?

The elite would call for the suspension of habeas corpus, the government would call out the National Guard, invade Honduras and the Supreme Court would announce that it is in session 24/7 to take any action deemed necessary to help their friends.

The Wall Street Journal would have a black border on the newspaper. The Financial Times would go from pink to gray. CNBC would play funeral music for nine months. Steve Schwarzman would compare it to the H-word. Cable networks would roadblock all coverage.

Minimum wage laws would be suspended, the 40-hour work week would be thrown out, perhaps they would even do away with child labor laws to get productivity up so profits could increase to make up for lost revenue.

OK, we know that story did not appear in Wednesday's New York Times, and we would certainly agree that a massive loss of wealth in the top 1% would wreak economic havoc on the country. But there was, if anything, a worse story on that front page with only minor variations from our hypothetical scenario.

The story said that the recent economic crisis left the average American family in 2010 with no more wealth than in the early 1990s, erasing almost two decades of accumulated prosperity, reducing their net worth by almost 40%.

And the response of the national elite, the people Paul Krugman refers to as "very smart people" or I like to call the "chin-scratchers," was a barely audible whimper.

To put it bluntly, the middle class in this country has been screwed, blued and tattooed.

Rising health care costs, job insecurity, declining real estate values, massive cuts to public education and public safety (no Mitt, we don't need fewer police officers, we actually need more of them and yes, the federal government has a large hand in this.)

It is a depressing state of affairs when about two-thirds of our fellow citizens are caught in an economic trap that is wrecking their lives financially and emotionally.

And the reaction to all of this has been limp at best.

There is an entire industry devoted to denying that this is even a problem.

I read a piece written by Andy Kessler in The Wall Street Journal, stating that thanks to "consumption equality," the wealthy work their 60- to 80-hour weeks inventing things for the masses, but there's not much they can buy with their money that the middle class can't afford.

You can only afford a product, because some rich person invented it for the masses, just like they did with smartphones, hard drives and affordable air travel.

Who cares if you can't afford to send your children to college or pay for your health insurance premium or what you owe on your house is more than what it's worth? Hey, you can buy them a cell phone, now that they don't cost $4,000, and talk to them as they stand in line for a job interview at McDonald's.

Where are our nation's institutions that should be raising holy hell about this? Lets start with my own Catholic Church: They are spending all of their time hunting down masturbators and birth-control takers.

Academics: Have you ever heard of the Princeton Center for Middle Class Studies? Not hardly.

The press: There is much more coverage on George Zimmerman's wife than on the destruction of the middle class in this country.

The lobbyists: Give me a break. When was the last time you heard of a lobbyist for the middle class? The point here is that we are reading the most significant economic story of our time and its effect on the psyche of the people who should know better is minimal.

In the words of Warren Buffett, "There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning."

The big scandal in America is that our middle class is shrinking, and no one seems to care. Maybe someone somewhere somehow should consider doing something else. http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/14/opinion/carville-middle-class/index.html
?hpt=hp_t2
about sums it up, for me.


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Thursday, June 14, 2012 7:39 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Was wondering why nobody seemed interested in the fact that family net worth had lessened by nearly 40%.


Hello,

Interested? I think people are interested. I don't think they're surprised or shocked.

While the exact percentage was not previously known, I think the average family was well aware that their assets had taken a precipitous dive. So being told about a 40% plummet got more of a 'huh' from me than a feeling of surprise. I stopped being shocked after my previous home was foreclosed upon. Shocked at these losses is what I felt while they were happening to me. Now they've happened. I think most people have hit their low points now, and are no longer amazed. So, while people are 'interested' I don't think the OMG WTF is a present state of mind anymore.

--Anthony




Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, June 14, 2012 8:17 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


This is a depth-charge topic. You won't see a lot of reaction on the surface.* But I thik it's so basic to so many people's lives it will be a source of deep, long-lasting, and powerful anger.



*except for Troll who doesn't seem to realize that most of the housing price drop was between 2005 - 2008

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And in the faked news department: Jussie Smollett charged -found guilty of- falsely reporting a "hate" crime
Wed, November 6, 2024 04:31 - 50 posts
Kamala Harris for President
Wed, November 6, 2024 02:55 - 641 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Tue, November 5, 2024 23:43 - 4679 posts
With apologies to JSF: Favorite songs (3)
Tue, November 5, 2024 23:39 - 69 posts

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