REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Sandusky Convicted

POSTED BY: PIZMOBEACH
UPDATED: Monday, June 25, 2012 07:11
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3557
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Friday, June 22, 2012 5:12 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/22/justice/pennsylvania-sandusky-trial/inde
x.html?hpt=hp_t1


Convicted on 45 of 48 counts.

I wonder if the percent of people who have had encounters with pedophiles isn't much, much higher than is currently thought to be accurate. Has to be.




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Friday, June 22, 2012 6:18 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I believe the number is probably alarmingly high. I also believe it will never be known.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Friday, June 22, 2012 7:04 PM

CATPIRATE


In jail as we speak. Just got the update. Now the wife should be charged. Tenure with Penn State, adopted children, and charities sounds like a scam. The wife knows. There is blood in the underwear at least once during their marriage.

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Friday, June 22, 2012 7:12 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

It is entirely possible that the wife didn't know.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 2:29 AM

WHOZIT


This garbage has ruined countless lives, dozens of childeren who will forever have nightmares, and a school that will take years to get over this monster.

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 4:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Have half a heart for those psu fans who blindly followed Joe Pa and stood up for him, thinking he was a scapegoat. Problem w/ that is, JoePa knew, and basically did nothing. And for that, how many more young boys got treated to Penn State football games, as well as showers with Sandusky ?




" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 5:14 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Hello,

It is entirely possible that the wife didn't know.

Not entirely, Anthony. Just this week on the witness stand she was displaying jealousy of the boys and she was characterizing the victims as seductive. And she never expressed surprise or outrage at the accusations made against her husband. No compassion for these now young men whom we've all seen suffering on the witness stand like any normal person would. No, they were all "problem" children in her mind. Classic behavior of a wife who knows.

Think Anthony: is this how a woman would react who was as shocked and surprised as the rest of us when we heard the news this past year? Is this how any sane human being would react if they really didn't know? Saying she didn't know is a lot like saying Jerry didn't know what he was doing was wrong. There's confusion, much distortion and denial, practiced and perfected over 15 or more years, but at the end of the day, they're pretty obviously lying. To themselves every bit as much as the rest of us.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 5:14 AM

ELVISCHRIST


FUCK JOPA, FUCK PSU, AND FUCK PSU FANS. SANDUSKY GETS A HOLE NEW SHOWER EXPERIENSE NOW!!!!

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 5:27 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Hello,

It is entirely possible that the wife didn't know.

Not entirely, Anthony. Just this week on the witness stand she was displaying jealousy of the boys and she was characterizing the victims as seductive. And she never expressed surprise or outrage at the accusations made against her husband. No compassion for these now young men whom we've all seen suffering on the witness stand like any normal person would. No, they were all "problem" children in her mind. Classic behavior of a wife who knows.

Think Anthony: is this how a woman would react who was as shocked and surprised as the rest of us when we heard the news this past year? Is this how any sane human being would react if they really didn't know? Saying she didn't know is a lot like saying Jerry didn't know what he was doing was wrong. There's confusion, much distortion and denial, practiced and perfected over 15 or more years, but at the end of the day, they're pretty obviously lying. To themselves every bit as much as the rest of us.

HKCavalier



Yeah. :(

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 5:54 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Capacity for denial is alarmingly high. Especially when faced with a potentially life-changing situation. Look at the number of smokers who deny that smoking kills, the number of drinkers who deny they're drunks, the number of abusers who deny they abuse, the power-producers and wasters who deny global warming, the pro-militarists who deny our tyrannical role, and the pro-corporatists who deny they're getting screwed. Because, if you had to face the truth of things, why... you might have to DO SOMETHING. And it might COST you something... a nice life, a favorite addiction, concealment from the eye of Sauron.

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 6:06 AM

BYTEMITE


True, Sig. Although if you're going to fight, some concealment is probably necessary. Otherwise you have orcs breaking up your resistance party.

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 6:08 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


True enough!

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 6:12 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Capacity for denial is alarmingly high. Especially when faced with a potentially life-changing situation. Look at the number of smokers who deny that smoking kills, the number of drinkers who deny they're drunks, the number of abusers who deny they abuse, the power-producers and wasters who deny global warming, the pro-militarists who deny our tyrannical role, and the pro-corporatists who deny they're getting screwed. Because, if you had to face the truth of things, why... you might have to DO SOMETHING. And it might COST you something... a nice life, a favorite addiction, concealment from the eye of Sauron.



You should have a show on "Current TV", you've turned a story about a monster into an ad for the "Green Party".

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 6:23 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Cav, I have to disagree. If you look at the pathology of families with a sexual abuser in them, you'll find that frequently the spouse goes through all kinds of twisting of their thinking in order not to know what's going on...even to the point of blaming the victim within the family itself.

She might well not have known. From "8 Myths About Child Molesters":
Quote:

2. The wife always knows and condones or even encourages his behavior.

Typically wives of child molesters are the last to know. Men who molest keep their activities secret and often threaten their victims not to tell or they will hurt their mothers or other family members. http://ezinearticles.com/?8-Myths-About-Child-Molesters&id=6716990 there are those who DO know, but can't face it so they either consciously or unconsciously deny it's happening. From a psychologist:
Quote:

In my years of profiling violent crimes, I have found that in the majority of cases that I studied, the spouses knew about the child molestation which was carried out by their spouses. Of course the wives never admitted this once an investigation was opened; however, victims have often stated that the wives of their abusers were present when the attacks took place. As the victims called out for help, it was common for the wives to walk away and shut the door behind them. In other cases, the wives would see their spouses bringing children into their bedrooms but said nothing. Many victims tell their mothers that their fathers are molesting them, and they are not believed.

First and foremost, they are adamant that they didn’t know what was going on. Amazingly, these women who were teachers, physician assistants, and charity fundraisers became stunningly stupid when it came to the sex abuse. Though considered intelligent, these women claim that they couldn’t put two and two together that their husbands were doing something wrong when there was an endless parade of young boys or girls going into the bedroom with their spouses. It strains credulity to believe that these women knew nothing.

Some play their part and aid their spouses because they fear the shame and potential judgment if the truth came out. They cannot believe such a horrible thing is happening, and if they keep it secret then somehow it is less real. In a very twisted type of thinking they would rather live with their secret and play their role in the abuse than to face shame or any potential consequences. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/disturbed/201204/what-predators-wi
ves-really-know
particular psychologist had a real hard-on for spouses of pedophiles (understandably), but it's well documented that in some cases, wives "know" but they don't admit it to themselves. There are levels of knowing something, those who are capable of denial do so by rationalizing away the evidence, or the spouse will blame the child. You heard it in the Sandusky trial, how parents disbelieved the children's stories; for the woman living with a pedophile, it can be the same. Conscious recognition of what's going on is subliminated so that they convince themselves it isn't happening. It's sick, but it's human nature to avoid the unpleasant, and wives face having their family destroyed, the condemnation of friends and family, self-hatred, etc., so the brain "protects" them from conscious knowledge.

Humans are very complex, and dealing with things like child abuse can get very convoluted.


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Saturday, June 23, 2012 6:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ah, I see Sig nailed it while I was typing:
Quote:

Capacity for denial is alarmingly high. Especially when faced with a potentially life-changing situation. Look at the number of smokers who deny that smoking kills, the number of drinkers who deny they're drunks, the number of abusers who deny they abuse, the power-producers and wasters who deny global warming, the pro-militarists who deny our tyrannical role, and the pro-corporatists who deny they're getting screwed. Because, if you had to face the truth of things, why... you might have to DO SOMETHING. And it might COST you something... a nice life, a favorite addiction, concealment from the eye of Sauron.
Actually, I think the latter examples DO know, quite consciously, but pretend ignorance or outright deny what they're doing. But the first examples are quite good comparison, drinkers, abusers--smokers I think know the potential consequences, but convince themselves "it can't happen to me". Alcoholics and abusers and abusers' wives in some cases, convince themselves it's not true out of some form of suvival instinct.

I'm trying to explain it because I knew the wife of a pedophile who was adamant her "good husband" couldn't have been doing "those things". When eventually she accepted it, she was horrified that she hadn't caught on at the time and terribly remorseful. She really didn't "know", consciously, but subconsciously she knew what was going on, she just couldn't admit it to herself at the time. It was just too awful to think it was real, so she convinced herself it couldn't be.


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Saturday, June 23, 2012 6:42 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

That particular psychologist had a real hard-on for spouses of pedophiles...



[Michael Bluth voice] "Gotta be a better way of saying that...[/Michael Bluth voice]



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 7:14 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Whichever, she knew on some level. Many, many people KNEW on some level. People's capacity to look the other way, to not want to cause trouble is pretty well known and not something we can easily educate away. We can have a parade of public convictions and hand wringing and new standards, school literature, classes, it's still going to happen unless something is done on a much deeper level. Not advocating, just predicting the future.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 7:42 AM

HKCAVALIER


Hey Niki,

We're talking about Dottie Sandusky, not "any wife of a pedophile." I'm sorry, this is a little infuriating to me. People rush to create ambiguity in cases like this where there simply isn't any ambiguity. Not in the case at hand, Niki. One of the primary tools of denial is to complicate matters that simply aren't actually complicated. There simply isn't a lot of nuance when your husband is taking showers with 11 year old boys in your own shower.

Your blogger writes: "Typically wives of child molesters are the last to know." If that's true (and I doubt this is more than personal opinion, at best anecdotal and at worst wishful thinking, on the part of your blogger, Ph. D. notwithstanding) then the Sandusky case is evidently not typical. Dottie Sundusky indicated her knowledge on the witness stand.

"Men who molest keep their activities secret and often threaten their victims not to tell or they will hurt their mothers or other family members." And this is manifestly NOT the case in the Sandusky household. At this point, we know that dozens of people were aware of Sandusky's activity. And forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't know that any of Jerry's victims report being threatened by him not to tell. It was at least not part of his M.O. It's important not to muddy the water by tossing in irrelevant examples from "experts" found on google. You are unwittingly obfuscating, Niki. When sensible people like yourself obfuscate the reality in a case like this, you simply perpetuate our society's know-nothing attitude about child sexual abuse. And, I'm heartily sorry, but it is precisely that attitude that allows this kind of thing to go on.

And your second link flatly disagrees with your first link: "I have found that in the majority of cases that I studied, the spouses knew about the child molestation which was carried out by their spouses." Niki, when dealing with psychologically overwhelming issues such as child sexual abuse we must strive to be as rational and unsentimental as possible. Denial is a powerful thing, to be sure--for everyone concerned--and I would say Mrs. Sandusky's denial is much on display, but denial doesn't come into being ex nihilo. In order to deny, there must first be an experience to be denied. If we observe the psychological mannerisms of denial in a person like Dottie Sandusky, then foreknowledge is implicit.

Again: imagine that you were the wife of Jerry Sandusky and you found out about the alledged sexual abuse the same time the rest of the country did. Imagine that months later you were called to testify on the witness stand. How can you listen to Dottie Sandusky and conclude that she could possibly have been "the last to know?" How could a person of good conscience blanketly defend her husband agaist such gruesome allegations, throwing suspicion on an 11 year old for being "manipulative" in the face of allegations of repeated rape, anal and oral? Are you gonna sit there and say she loved her husband so much that she would so aggressively defame these raped boys? Who would do such a thing?

If a person really doesn't know a thing happened, then when confronted with overwhelming evidence, that person CAN'T know that it DIDN'T happen either.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 8:56 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!



Touched by a Pedophile: The Jewish Jerry Sandusky Story
http://news.yahoo.com/juror-sandusky-accusers-credibility-boosted-case
-170225240--spt.html


Will Sandy win his appeal for a new mistrial? Suicide on death row? Island holiday with Ken Lay?

Sandy is the fall guy for a massive pedophile ring at Penn State and PA. No further arrests to be sure.
http://www.henrymakow.com/is_sandusky_part_of_a_larger_p.html

Did Sandy play at Bohemian Grove presidential retreat, which is meeting for its annual human sacrifice next month?
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Bohemian-Grove-2012/3316244402102
32

http://occupybohemiangrove.org

Conspiracy of Silence: Too hot for TV, banned by peophiles who run the TV networks, TV show purchased by pedophile serial killer Sir George HW Bush Sr Knight of the British Empire:






www.johnnygosch.com


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Saturday, June 23, 2012 10:03 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't know that any of Jerry's victims report being threatened by him not to tell. It was at least not part of his M.O.


One of the victims said that he DID threaten him, that Sandusky could use his clout and money and that the boy would never see his family again. Then Sandusky apologized, said he never meant it, and that he loved the boy.

Reportedly, anyway. It's not actually something we can confirm.

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 10:35 AM

HKCAVALIER


Hey Byte,

Yeah, that's why I rephrased the statement as I was writing. With so many victims it would stand to reason that he might threaten at least one or more of them if it looked as if one of the boys were in danger of informing on him.

It's not typical though, of Sandusky's type of pedophilia. Sandusky displays all the characteristics of a "true" pedophile: a man who is sexually aroused by children in particular, whose sexuality is fixated on children, rather than a "child sexual predator" who preys on children because of their availability and weakness. The latter type will often threaten his victims, it's part of his gig. But a real pedophile sees his victims as romantic objects/partners and will seduce rather than threaten, it's part of HIS gig. If he does threaten, he'll display remorse and try to "make it up" to his victim/lover. There are, of course, borderline cases and some overlap, but Sandusky comes across as more of a "text book case" of pedophilia. Anyway, thanks for the detail, Byte. I just didn't feel like going back and reading through all the testimony again to be sure about the threat issue.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 11:24 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

It's entirely possible that the wife did not know.

People tend to tell themselves all kinds of lies to explain odd behavior. My aunt thought her husband was cheating on her. It was a terrible shame to be endured.

She only guessed the half of it.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Saturday, June 23, 2012 12:09 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Cav, I was giving out some general information, not talking about Sandusky's wife. Where she's concerned, there has to be, in my opinion, some kind of warped thinking on her part, since the signs WERE all there. But it's reeeely convoluted, this being the spouse of a pedophile, and everyone's different. If you're asking how could someone turn a blind eye to this sort of thing, then how could a woman stay with a man for DECADES when he beats her regularly, even rapes her? Women do every day.

Yes, fer shore a normal person would be aghast and disgusted to learn this stuff about a spouse. But that's only if she believes it, and to this day she could easily be in denial. People are weird. One of the most common is a really upstanding member of the community(oops, I guess that describes Sandusky, doesn't it?)--well, someone like that, who sets up a charity, does good works, is admired, and loved by his spouse might well find the spouse just plain refuses to believe it--like his attorney, insists it's some kind of vast conspiracy.

We'll probably never know. But to me, the mere fact that she IS dissing the kids and trying to deny the allegations tells me that either she's a real creep herself (which is rare but happens) or she's deep in denial, either because she doesn't want to be connected to him, or because she can't bring herself to believe what was going on right under her nose.

I'm not standing up for her, mind you. I have no sympathy for someone who convinces themselves it's not happening when there are myriad clues, and STILL denies it after it comes out, but I recognize enough about the convolutions of the human brain, especially when dealing with things like abuse, pedophilia and things as horrific as that, to know it's not cut and dried most of the time.

Sure, psychologists disagree; we don't know enough about the human brain yet to understand these things. But that one psychologist who was pretty harsh on spouses of pedophilias reeeely condemns them (you should read the rest of his article!) and is expressing his own opinion. My own belief is that, on some level, spouses of these bastards know. That doesn't mean I condemn them completely for denying it to themselves. Humans are humans, sometimes unfortunately!


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Sunday, June 24, 2012 7:13 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Convicted, good.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Monday, June 25, 2012 5:52 AM

CAVETROLL


He'll spend the rest of his life in solitary confinement for his own protection or he'll "slip and fall in the shower", like Jeffrey Dahmer.


Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons

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Monday, June 25, 2012 7:11 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


If he was a Catholic priest, he'd just be reassigned to another parish. Or made Pope.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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