Russia Invades Ukraine. Again by captaincrunch

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Meanwhile, back in Ukraine... and on-topic...
Estimates of Ukrainian and Russian dead and wounded, sources and analysis (appx 1st 30 minutes)

Its what I remembered: BBC estimates 12,000 Russians killed, with an appx 40-60pct undercount comes out to 20,000. Not 200,000. NYT gets that from the WH/State/CIA, which gets that figure from Kiev.

Heard an interesting comment that the NYT is State Dept preferred outlet, while WaPo is the CIA's. Not sure if true, but it would be interesting to track.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Saturday, February 4, 2023 6:50 PM

Russia is fine.

--------------------------------------------------

Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

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Saturday, February 4, 2023 8:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
It's amazing how the Democrat politicians and the Democrat ran media have turned the Democrat voters into NeoCon warmongers.

Friend, if you support the war-starting country over the country that is defending itself, then *you* are the warmonger.

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Saturday, February 4, 2023 8:28 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by K2PO:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
It's amazing how the Democrat politicians and the Democrat ran media have turned the Democrat voters into NeoCon warmongers.

Friend, if you support the war-starting country over the country that is defending itself, then *you* are the warmonger.

No, I don't support the USA starting wars. Bc we've started a lot more wars than Russia.

Do you?

Oh yeah BTW: Fuck you, and fuck Ukraine.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Saturday, February 4, 2023 8:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
No, I don't support the USA starting wars. Bc we've started a lot more wars than Russia.

You don't support the USA supporting wars.

You *do* support Russia starting wars.

You're not anti-war. You're pro-war, but only when it's a country you support (same as all warmongers). You're a Putinist Neocon.

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Saturday, February 4, 2023 9:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by K2PO:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
It's amazing how the Democrat politicians and the Democrat ran media have turned the Democrat voters into NeoCon warmongers.

Friend, if you support the war-starting country over the country that is defending itself, then *you* are the warmonger.

That is not at all what's happening, "friend".

You didn't even know where Ukraine was on a map before last year. Your otherwise empty brainspace full of Democrat ran media propaganda does not constitute knowledge.

This has nothing to do with Ukraine other than you gleefully cheerleading Ukrainian citizens on to their deaths.

This is a war of NATO aggression, on our fucking dime. It has been for a very long time. You just tuned in last year and got your "updates" from the warmongering propagandists.

--------------------------------------------------

Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

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Saturday, February 4, 2023 10:44 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by K2PO:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
No, I don't support the USA starting wars. Bc we've started a lot more wars than Russia.

You don't support the USA supporting wars.

The USA doesn't just "support wars, it wages them. Directly. You keep avoiding that fact, so I guess you're Ok with that.
BTW, Ukraine is "our war" against Russia.

Quote:
You *do* support Russia starting wars.

Bullshit.
That's your mendacity and hypocrisy. Again.

Oh and yeah: Fuck you, and fuck Ukraine.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Saturday, February 4, 2023 10:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
This is a war of NATO aggression

The foundation for any kind of political discussion is a common agreement of basic facts. A basic fact of this war is that Russia started it. It spent months massing troops and equipment on Ukraine's border, denying that it planned to invade; then it invaded.

We all watched this unfold in real time about a year ago. If you are asserting otherwise, then there's no point talking to you.

But I think you are actually saying NATO provoked Russia into starting this war - but for some reason it's not enough for you to say that. You feel the need to use rhetoric and twist the meaning of words to make your point more emphatic.

The statement of yours I quoted is dishonest. My question to you: why do you feel the need to be dishonest? If your cause is true and righteous, why not tell it straight? (This also goes for the people who, I'm guessing, you read/listened to and got the original phrase from).

Something to think about.

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Saturday, February 4, 2023 10:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by K2PO:
You don't support the USA supporting wars.
The USA doesn't just "support wars, it wages them. Directly. You keep avoiding that fact, so I guess you're Ok with that.

Of course it wages them. "supporting" was a typo. I meant "starting".

Quote:
Quote:
You *do* support Russia starting wars.

Bullshit.

You don't support Russia in its wars? Ukraine? Syria? (it didn't start that one but it did wage it)

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Saturday, February 4, 2023 11:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by K2PO:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
This is a war of NATO aggression

The foundation for any kind of political discussion is a common agreement of basic facts.

I agree.

Quote:
A basic fact of this war is that Russia started it.

Bullshit.

Quote:
It spent months massing troops and equipment on Ukraine's border, denying that it planned to invade; then it invaded.

MONTHS MOTHERFUCKER! THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE AT LEAST 2014 WHEN WE OVERTHREW UKRAINE'S PRESIDENT AND INSTALLED ZELENSKY!

Quote:
We all watched this unfold in real time about a year ago. If you are asserting otherwise, then there's no point talking to you.

But I think you are actually saying NATO provoked Russia into starting this war - but for some reason it's not enough for you to say that. You feel the need to use rhetoric and twist the meaning of words to make your point more emphatic.

Let me be VERY clear so there is no more confusion in your head.

NATO PROVOKED RUSSIA. NATO ALWAYS PROVOKES RUSSIA.

Quote:
The statement of yours I quoted is dishonest. My question to you: why do you feel the need to be dishonest? If your cause is true and righteous, why not tell it straight? (This also goes for the people who, I'm guessing, you read/listened to and got the original phrase from).

Something to think about.

There is NO dishonesty here. I might be the only one telling you what's really going on because you've got your head so far up your echo chamber.

And no. I don't need to "get my phrases" from other people. I don't steal articles like Second always does. I'm perfectly capable of using big-boy words all on my own because unlike most people here, my education stuck.

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Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 3:05 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by K2PO:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by K2PO:
You don't support the USA supporting wars.
The USA doesn't just "support wars, it wages them. Directly. You keep avoiding that fact, so I guess you're Ok with that.

Of course it wages them. "supporting" was a typo. I meant "starting".

Quote:
Quote:
You *do* support Russia starting wars.

Bullshit.

You don't support Russia in its wars? Ukraine? Syria? (it didn't start that one but it did wage it)

You see, son, you've got your "facts" bass akwards.

Was Russia fighting the Syrian government in Syria?

NO, IT WASN't.

Russia was INVITED by the Syrian govenment. And who, eactly, WAS Russia fighting in Syria? Well, Saudi-supported ISIS. Turk-supported Sunni jihadists. AMERICAN supported "moderate rebels" AKA jihadists. American-supported separatist Kurds (who BTW ere offerred cultural autonomy by the Syrian government. I guess that wasn't goodenough for them) American troops themselves. All gathered together to overthrow the ELECTED Assad government. And BTW, American troops ae STILL in Syria, STILL stealing Syrian oil.

Now, who is Russia fighting in Ukraine? A government installed by the USA after overthrowing their ELECTED government. A government that shelled civilian centers for eight years, that signed and reneged on not one, but TWO peace agreements, that massed troops on the contact line long before Russia ever responded by massing THEIR troops. Because, you see, while Ukraine is not in NATO, NATO is in Ukraine. Zelenskiy gets his directions and money from USA. NATO has got its fingers up Ukraine's ass and is talking out of Zeleneskiy's mouth.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 8:12 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Rajan Menon, Director of the Grand Strategy Program at Defense Priorities, told Newsweek on Saturday, "there's no doubt that the Russian army has committed war crimes: I've been to some of the most notorious sites, such as Bucha, just outside Kyiv."

"The Russian claim that these crimes were staged by the Ukrainians is absurd on its face and has been demonstrated to be false, for example in the superbly researched documentary expose done by the AP and PBS," Menon continued.

Menon argued, "Ukraine certainly has a strong moral claim to justice, but as a practical matter it's hard for me to envision Russian soldiers, let alone commanders and Putin and other senior officials, in the dock at an international tribunal."

"When war crimes have been committed during wars among states (as opposed to civil wars) such trials have made possible because the perpetrator was defeated and occupied: e.g., Germany and Japan after World War II. Whatever the outcome of the war in Ukraine, there's no chance that Russia will find itself in that position," Menon concluded.

https://www.newsweek.com/russias-war-crimes-reach-three-digit-range-ge
rmany-warns-1778986

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 10:00 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Putin Was Joking

Multiple assassination attempts against Zelensky have been thwarted since the start of Russia’s invasion.

Former prime minister Naftali Bennett said in a video published Saturday that Russian President Vladimir Putin assured him, in the early days of the war, that he wouldn’t kill Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

“He gave me two great concessions,” Bennett said of his March 5, 2022, meeting with Putin, when he flew to Moscow in an effort to mediate shortly after Russia began its invasion.

“I knew Zelensky was under threat, in a bunker… I said to [Putin], ‘Do you intend to kill Zelensky?’ He said, ‘I won’t kill Zelensky,’” Bennett recalled in the interview, which was published on his own YouTube channel.

“I need to understand. Are you giving me your word that you won’t kill Zelensky?” Bennett said he asked Putin.

Bennett said the Russian president repeated: “I won’t kill Zelensky.” (Putin kept his word. Mercenaries from the Wagner Group, not Putin, tried to kill Zelensky.)

Bennett said he called the Ukrainian president immediately after the three-hour encounter with Putin, and told him, “I’ve just come out of a meeting — [Putin] is not going to kill you.

“[Zelensky] asked me, ‘Are you sure?’ I said 100 percent. [Putin’s] not going to kill you.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/bennett-putin-assured-me-at-moscow-meeti
ng-he-wouldnt-kill-zelensky/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 12:07 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Russia steps up threats against Republic of Moldova

by Vitalie Calugareanu | Robert Schwartz

Russia's foreign minister has warned that Moldova could meet the same fate as Ukraine. He says that the West is stirring up anti-Russian sentiment. Moldova has rejected his comments as propaganda.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has suggested that Moldova is the West's new "anti-Russian project." In an interview for Russian state television, he declared that the West had now "set its sights on the Republic of Moldova to have the role of the next Ukraine."

Russia's more or less direct threats against Moldova have intensified since it began the war of aggression against Ukraine almost a year ago.

In the interview, which was banned from broadcast in Moldova because of accusations of propaganda, Lavrov also stated that pro-European Moldovan President Maia Sandu had been appointed with methods that were "far from being freely democratic" and that she was pursuing a deeply anti-Russian approach. He added that she was "a president who wants to join NATO, has Romanian citizenship, is ready to unite with Romania and, in general, is ready for almost anything."

"This is one of the countries that the West wants to turn into another anti-Russia," he said.

Debate over Transnistria conflict

The foreign minister continued by criticizing the Moldovan government in Chisinau for refusing to resume the 5+2 negotiations on resolving the Transnistria conflict. Russia and the separatist regime in Transnistria, a pro-Russian breakaway region that split from Moldova in the early 1990s after a bloody war, insist that talks should continue, especially considering the setbacks of the Russian army in Ukraine.

Lavrov said that "hand in hand with the pro-NATO, pro-EU drive," the fact that Moldova refused to resume the negotiations spoke "volumes." He added that Moldova was even planning to expel Russian "peacekeepers" from Transnistria.

There are some 2,000 Russian soldiers stationed in Transnistria, which is a narrow strip of land in eastern Moldova. Many of them are there to guard a former Soviet ammunition depot in the village of Cobasna that contains up to 20,000 tons of Soviet-era weapons. It is the largest such depot in Europe. In 1999, Russia committed to withdrawing troops and weapons, but it has not fulfilled this promise.

Russia accuses Moldovan president of anti-Russian stance

At the end of January, the Moldovan president said that there was a "serious discussion" about her country's capacity to defend itself and whether it should be part of a "larger alliance" in an interview with the US magazine Politico. She added: "And if we come, at some point, to the conclusion as a nation that we need to change neutrality, this should happen through a democratic process."

Moldova's neutrality, which is enshrined in the constitution, has become the subject of more intense debate since Russia's invasion of Ukraine. However, there would currently not be enough support in parliament for a constitutional amendment.

Veiled threats and warnings against Moldova

But in the wake of President Sandu's remarks, there have been several veiled warnings from Russian politicians close to Russian President Vladimir Putin, that joining NATO would be a sure way of destroying the state of Moldova.

Moreover, in a video conference with Russian politicians, Vitali Ignatiev, the so-called foreign minister of Transnistria, complained about "increased pressure" on the unrecognized republic due to the fact that the Moldovan army had expanded its defense capacities. He also said that there was increasing "repression of everything Russian" in Moldova. This is an argument typically used by Russian propagandists to justify military aggression against independent states, including Ukraine and Georgia.

The Moldovan Foreign Ministry was quick to react to the latest threats by Lavrov. It said that the remarks did not correspond to the truth and continued "the already well-known threatening rhetoric of Russian diplomacy."

Nicu Popescu, the foreign minister and deputy prime minister of Moldova, said that his country categorically rejected this tone in bilateral relations with Russia. He reminded the government in Moscow that Moldovan citizens wanted peace, prosperity and democracy, and that they wanted to join the European Union.

Solidarity with Ukraine

Moldova declared solidarity with its neighbor Ukraine immediately after the Russian invasion on February 24, 2022, and simplified measures for refugees crossing the border. The country has consistently condemned Russia's attacks on Ukraine's population and critical infrastructure. At every international meeting, Moldovan politicians have issued warnings about the increased security risks for their country.

Gunther Krichbaum, the former head of the Bundestag EU affairs committee and an expert in Eastern and Southeast European politics, said in a DW interview that Russia's threats against Moldova showed once again how aggressive Russia was and that it was important to put it in its place now. "This war must not be worth it for Russia, Ukraine must win the war," he said.

He added that all politicians advocating appeasement should finally understand that Russia would not stop at a victory over Ukraine and would keep on with its invasions. He said that Moldova would be the next victim and would not be able to stand up to Russia. Then, according to Krichbaum, it would go on with Georgia and then the Baltic states would have to worry. "Therefore, Russia must be stopped now."

https://www.dw.com/en/russia-steps-up-threats-against-republic-of-mold
ova/a-64612019

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 12:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by K2PO:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by K2PO:
You don't support the USA supporting wars.
The USA doesn't just "support wars, it wages them. Directly. You keep avoiding that fact, so I guess you're Ok with that.

Of course it wages them. "supporting" was a typo. I meant "starting".

Quote:
Quote:
You *do* support Russia starting wars.

Bullshit.

You don't support Russia in its wars? Ukraine? Syria? (it didn't start that one but it did wage it)
You see, son, you've got your "facts" bass akwards.

Was Russia fighting the Syrian government in Syria?

NO, IT WASN't.

Russia was INVITED by the Syrian govenment. And who, eactly, WAS Russia fighting in Syria? Well, Saudi-supported ISIS. Turk-supported Sunni jihadists. AMERICAN supported "moderate rebels" AKA jihadists. American-supported separatist Kurds (who BTW ere offerred cultural autonomy by the Syrian government. I guess that wasn't goodenough for them) American troops themselves. All gathered together to overthrow the ELECTED Assad government. And BTW, American troops ae STILL in Syria, STILL stealing Syrian oil.

Now, who is Russia fighting in Ukraine? A government installed by the USA after overthrowing their ELECTED government. A government that shelled civilian centers for eight years, that signed and reneged on not one, but TWO peace agreements, that massed troops on the contact line long before Russia ever responded by massing THEIR troops. Because, you see, while Ukraine is not in NATO, NATO is in Ukraine. Zelenskiy gets his directions and money from USA. NATO has got its fingers up Ukraine's ass and is talking out of Zeleneskiy's mouth.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

Lol Sig, I made the point that you were a warmonger for Russia's wars. You respond by... warmongering for Russia's wars.

You think warmongers are all, "Invade their land, kill their men, steal their resources, rape their women!"

No. Warmongers preach the righteousness of their wars.

American neocons: "Axis of Evil!"
Putinist neocons: "Nazis!"

American neocons: "WMDs! Missiles!"
Putinist neocons: "WMDs! Missiles!"

American neocons: "The people need to be liberated"
Putinist neocons: "The people need to be liberated"

Then the invasion happens: the men are killed, the women are raped, the resources are stolen - and people like you defend or whitewash or cheer it on.

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 12:45 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Josep Borrell, Vice-President of the European Commission, writes:

I, for one, have long argued that we must provide Ukraine with the means to push Russia out. Tanks are necessary for Ukrainian forces to break through the current stalemate of trench warfare and to regain the momentum they had last fall when they retook Kharkiv Oblast and Kherson.

Reaching the “tank agreement” took time and intense discussions, including at the European Union Foreign Affairs Council.

The breakthrough came when Germany agreed to deliver Leopard 2s, in coordination with the United States, which will provide some 30 M1 Abrams. Although delivery of these assets will take time and require intensive training and maintenance, the result is not confined to the battlefield. We have sent another powerful signal to Russia that Putin was wrong – once again – to doubt our resolve.

Of course, some will argue that more weapons will prolong the war and risk further escalation and that diplomatic negotiations are the only solution.

But while Europeans will always remain open to anyone who is serious about seeking a negotiated and just end to the war, Russia so far has made clear that it intends to persist with its war crimes.

Everyone who has tried to negotiate with Putin has come back empty-handed. Until that changes, we must conclude that the only way to end the war is to give Ukraine the means to drive out the invader.

[Continue reading at https://kyivindependent.com/opinion/josep-borrell-making-ukrainian-vic
tory-possible ]

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 2:59 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Europe imposed a ban Sunday on Russian diesel fuel and other refined oil products, slashing energy dependency on Moscow and seeking to further crimp the Kremlin’s fossil fuel earnings as punishment for invading Ukraine. Russia, at one point, delivered 10% of Europe’s total diesel needs.

The ban comes along with a price cap agreed by the Group of Seven allied democracies. The price cap of $100 per barrel for diesel, jet fuel and gasoline is to be enforced by barring insurance and shipping services from handling diesel priced over the limit. Most of those companies are located in Western countries.

It follows a $60-per-barrel cap on Russian crude that took effect in December and is supposed to work the same way. Both the diesel and oil caps could be tightened later.

https://apnews.com/article/european-union-russia-government-moscow-eur
ope-china-a855facf78132a8805c9ba52dd0fab60

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 5:12 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by K2PO:
You don't support the USA supporting wars.

SIGNY: The USA doesn't just "support wars, it wages them. Directly. You keep avoiding that fact, so I guess you're Ok with that.

K2PO: Of course it wages them. "supporting" was a typo. I meant "starting".
...You *do* support Russia starting wars.

SIGNY: Bullshit.

K2PO: You don't support Russia in its wars? Ukraine? Syria? (it didn't start that one but it did wage it)

SIGNY: You see, son, you've got your "facts" bass akwards.
Was Russia fighting the Syrian government in Syria?
NO, IT WASN't.
Russia was INVITED by the Syrian govenment. And who, eactly, WAS Russia fighting in Syria? Well, Saudi-supported ISIS. Turk-supported Sunni jihadists. AMERICAN supported "moderate rebels" AKA jihadists. American-supported separatist Kurds (who BTW ere offerred cultural autonomy by the Syrian government. I guess that wasn't goodenough for them) American troops themselves. All gathered together to overthrow the ELECTED Assad government. And BTW, American troops ae STILL in Syria, STILL stealing Syrian oil.

Now, who is Russia fighting in Ukraine? A government installed by the USA after overthrowing their ELECTED government. A government that shelled civilian centers for eight years, that signed and reneged on not one, but TWO peace agreements, that massed troops on the contact line long before Russia ever responded by massing THEIR troops. Because, you see, while Ukraine is not in NATO, NATO is in Ukraine. Zelenskiy gets his directions and money from USA. NATO has got its fingers up Ukraine's ass and is talking out of Zeleneskiy's mouth.

K2PO: Lol Sig, I made the point that you were a warmonger for Russia's wars. You respond by... warmongering for Russia's wars.
You think warmongers are all, "Invade their land, kill their men, steal their resources, rape their women!"
No. Warmongers preach the righteousness of their wars.

Oh, like
"Human rights"?
"Think of the women/LGBTQX/fill in the blank"?
"R2P"?
"Fight for democracy"?
"Global war of on terror"?
"Assad gassed his own people"?
(Phony) WMD?
"Qaddafi massacred his own people"?

Yep.
We invent unachievable "reasons" to continue waging unending war.
Trust me, son, YOU'VE SAID THEM ALL.

Russia's reason is clear:

Further expansion of NATO puts missiles within minutes of Moscow and is an unacceptable security threat. We could solve that problem with a treaty ...except of course we won't, and even if we did sign a treaty we'd never stick to it bc we've never stuck to ANY of our agreements. They get in the way of the neocon hegemony project.

Oh yeah: Fuck you and fuck Ukraine.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 5:17 PM

Don't think that the fact that K2PO didn't reply to me went unnoticed.

It didn't.

--------------------------------------------------

Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 5:27 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Shooting civilians from a helicopter. Something you said you did while conserving ammunition by taking careful aim.
I would have remembered if it had happened.

Like you remember anything else you post?

Considering that you bragged about it more than once (Those other soldiers didn't know how to fight, they just sprayed from the helicopter, I know how to fight by killing more and saving ammunition blah blah blah...) I understand your desire to memory-hole your posts.

SECOND didn't respond to this either.

Yanno, given how often he contradicts himself and "forgets" what he posts, either he's multiple people posting under one account or his brain is broken in ways I can't even imagine.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 5:53 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

SECOND didn't respond to this either.

Yanno, given how often he contradicts himself and "forgets" what he posts, either he's multiple people posting under one account or his brain is broken in ways I can't even imagine.

What is the point of responding to you? I tell you something true and you continue on just as uninformed and as false as before. Here is an example that you skipped over on this very thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64887&mid=11691
34#1169134

In the article, Putin is doing the same to Moldova as to Ukraine:

Russian troops in Moldova? Check.
Does Russia claim Moldova's government was overthrown and replaced un-democratically? Check.
Does Russia feel threatened by Moldova because of NATO? Check.
Does Russia claim that Russian-speaking citizens are oppressed? Check.

Moldova tells Russia something true and then the Russians remain as uninformed as always, repeating the same falsehoods that "justify" invasion. Invasion is not legal, but Russians have strange ideas, unique to themselves, about what is and is not legal and what is true and is not true. So does Signym.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 7:13 PM

THG

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

SECOND didn't respond to this either.

Yanno, given how often he contradicts himself and "forgets" what he posts, either he's multiple people posting under one account or his brain is broken in ways I can't even imagine.
What is the point of responding to you? I tell you something true and you continue on just as uninformed and as false as before. Here is an example that you skipped over on this very thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64887&mid=11691
34#1169134

In the article, Putin is doing the same to Moldova as to Ukraine:

Russian troops in Moldova? Check.
Does Russia claim Moldova's government was overthrown and replaced un-democratically? Check.
Does Russia feel threatened by Moldova because of NATO? Check.
Does Russia claim that Russian-speaking citizens are oppressed? Check.

Moldova tells Russia something true and then the Russians remain as uninformed as always, repeating the same falsehoods that "justify" invasion. Invasion is not legal, but Russians have strange ideas, unique to themselves, about what is and is not legal and what is true and is not true. So does Signym.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly]

Check

T

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 7:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
MONTHS MOTHERFUCKER! THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE AT LEAST 2014

Fatalities from the war in Ukraine since 2014 (just looking at civilians):

2014: 2084
2015: 955
2016: 112
2017: 117
2018: 58
2019: 27
2020: 26
2021: 25
-----------
2022: 7000-?? (7000 is the number that has been documented. Real number expected to be much higher)

In one sense it is true to say this all started in 2014; in another sense, it's true to say that something new kicked off in 2022, started by Russia. And the preceding 8 years were kind of a prelude. Both statements are true, just different ways of looking at the same thing. Just like most people agree WWII started in 1939, but sometimes people say "WWII was an extension of WWI". The statements are not contradictory.

Quote:
WHEN WE OVERTHREW UKRAINE'S PRESIDENT

Sure. The CIA got hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian on the streets of Kyiv. How, exactly?

Quote:
AND INSTALLED ZELENSKY!

Zelensky was elected in 2019. This is the third "Nazi" Ukrainian government since the revolution of 2014, and the second with a part-Jewish leader. These are basic facts. Please check them.

Quote:
NATO PROVOKED RUSSIA. NATO ALWAYS PROVOKES RUSSIA.

So goes the narrative. We "poked the bear". The CIA ousted Yanukovich in a coup. Even if that were true (it's not), it doesn't mean the USA or NATO started the war. The CIA does lots of things, but it doesn't start wars. You need an army for that. The army for this war came from Russia.

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 8:13 PM

Quote:
KPO:
American neocons: "WMDs! Missiles!"
Putinist neocons: "WMDs! Missiles!"

Quote:
Signy:
Further expansion of NATO puts missiles within minutes of Moscow

Lol.

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 8:23 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by K2PO:

Quote:
NATO PROVOKED RUSSIA. NATO ALWAYS PROVOKES RUSSIA.

So goes the narrative. We "poked the bear". The CIA ousted Yanukovich in a coup. Even if that were true (it's not), it doesn't mean the USA or NATO started the war. The CIA does lots of things, but it doesn't start wars. You need an army for that. The army for this war came from Russia.

I never saw this before tonight. Shows how easy it is to conquer if the inhabitants are patient/reasonable/peace-loving rather than placing Russians into the same category as cannibals/zombies (i.e. Reavers, the Firefly reference).

Russia's Little Green Men Enter Ukraine: Russian Roulette in Ukraine

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 9:04 PM

The hysterical thing is that for months Russia denied that these were Russian soldiers, claiming that they were locals who had got their uniforms and weapons from "shops". Eventually of course Putin admitted it, and handed out medals to the soldiers involved.

Sometimes I almost feel sorry for the Putin fanboys, who have to back up whatever ludicrous lies come out of the Kremlin.

Quote:
Shows how easy it is to conquer if the inhabitants are patient/reasonable/peace-loving

For decades Ukrainians had been taught about Russia's fraternal love for them, so they were partly just stunned. It turns out Russia was not a loving brother, but a jealous, controlling and abusive partner.

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 9:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by K2PO:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
MONTHS MOTHERFUCKER! THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE AT LEAST 2014

Fatalities from the war in Ukraine since 2014 (just looking at civilians):

2014: 2084
2015: 955
2016: 112
2017: 117
2018: 58
2019: 27
2020: 26
2021: 25
-----------
2022: 7000-?? (7000 is the number that has been documented. Real number expected to be much higher)

In one sense it is true to say this all started in 2014; in another sense, it's true to say that something new kicked off in 2022, started by Russia.

No. In another sense that is not true.

Quote:
And the preceding 8 years were kind of a prelude. Both statements are true, just different ways of looking at the same thing. Just like most people agree WWII started in 1939, but sometimes people say "WWII was an extension of WWI". The statements are not contradictory.

Well... read a fucking book and figure out what those 8 years were all about instead of RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA like the Left has been crowing for going on 7 years now.

At least you acknowledge Ukraine existed before 2022 and that things happened there before 2022. Ted and Second can't even do that.

Quote:
Quote:
WHEN WE OVERTHREW UKRAINE'S PRESIDENT

Sure. The CIA got hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian on the streets of Kyiv. How, exactly?

That's above my pay grade. It's easy to propagandize people when life ain't great and your country doesn't have an infinite money making machine at their disposal though. Ask the Germans or the Muslims.

Quote:
Quote:
AND INSTALLED ZELENSKY!

Zelensky was elected in 2019. This is the third "Nazi" Ukrainian government since the revolution of 2014, and the second with a part-Jewish leader. These are basic facts. Please check them.

He was INSTALLED in 2019. Just as Poroshenko was INSTALLED in 2014. We control the Ukrainian elections. Obama and the Biden family run that country like gangsters.

Quote:
Quote:
NATO PROVOKED RUSSIA. NATO ALWAYS PROVOKES RUSSIA.

So goes the narrative. We "poked the bear". The CIA ousted Yanukovich in a coup. Even if that were true (it's not), it doesn't mean the USA or NATO started the war. The CIA does lots of things, but it doesn't start wars. You need an army for that. The army for this war came from Russia.

"WE" didn't. Fuck NATO. It needs to be disbanded.

You don't need an army to start a war.

https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/world-war-i-history

Quote:
World War I, also known as the Great War, began in 1914 after the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria. His murder catapulted into a war across Europe that lasted until 1918.

Not an army.

--------------------------------------------------

Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 9:41 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by K2PO:
Quote:
KPO:
American neocons: "WMDs! Missiles!"
Putinist neocons: "WMDs! Missiles!"

Quote:
Signy:
Further expansion of NATO puts missiles within minutes of Moscow

Lol.

Which happens to be true. Look how the USA reacted to missiles in Cuba.

Maybe Russia should put missiles back there, again. Yanno, just to be fair.

Maybe a full-on military base? Runway, 50,000 troops, fighter jets with nuclear tipped missiles. Yanno, the works. Let's see how fast America reacts.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 9:42 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by K2PO:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
MONTHS MOTHERFUCKER! THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE AT LEAST 2014

Fatalities from the war in Ukraine since 2014 (just looking at civilians):

2014: 2084
2015: 955
2016: 112
2017: 117
2018: 58
2019: 27
2020: 26
2021: 25
-----------

CITES?
LINKS? Or is tihs just some anonymous bullshit?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 11:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
He was INSTALLED in 2019. Just as Poroshenko was INSTALLED in 2014. We control the Ukrainian elections. Obama and the Biden family run that country like gangsters.

LOL.

Trump was president in 2019.

Quote:
You don't need an army to start a war.

Technically, no, you just need a declaration of war. You need a military for the war to turn hot though.

WWI started on 28th July 1914, with the first declaration of war: Austria-Hungary on Serbia. The assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was 4 weeks earlier. That was the provocation.

The nations of Europe didn't have to respond to that provocation by hurling their armies at each other; they chose to. Russia didn't have to respond to a revolution in Kyiv by invading Crimea and the Donbas. It chose to. And then it chose to escalate it in 2022. You can argue that it was right to, like neocon Signy is doing. But right or wrong, this war was Russia's choice.

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Sunday, February 5, 2023 11:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by K2PO:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
MONTHS MOTHERFUCKER! THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE AT LEAST 2014

Fatalities from the war in Ukraine since 2014 (just looking at civilians):

2014: 2084
2015: 955
2016: 112
2017: 117
2018: 58
2019: 27
2020: 26
2021: 25
-----------
CITES?
LINKS? Or is tihs just some anonymous bullshit?

These are UN figures. Does this not fit your propaganda narrative? Oops. Second graph, page 3:

https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20
civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20%28rev%2027%20January%202022%29%20corr%20EN_0.pdf

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Monday, February 6, 2023 2:18 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

SECOND didn't respond to this either.

Quote:
Yanno, given how often he contradicts himself and "forgets" what he posts, either he's multiple people posting under one account or his brain is broken in ways I can't even imagine.

SECOND: What is the point of responding to you? I tell you something true ...

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

And you expect us to.... believe you???

Dood, your credibility here is trashed. Even your internet buds know you're a liar. Here's a couple of hints: If you're going to lie
a) try not to contradict yourself every other post
b) try not to post lies that are so demonstrably false.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Monday, February 6, 2023 2:41 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I don't believe the UN numbers, just like I don't believe OPCW, HRW, AI, or Medecins sans Frontieres.

While I'm at it, I don't believe the CIA, FBI, DOJ, Kiev, NED or AID either. OPCW has earned special emnity from the people of the Donbas for ignoring shelling by Kiev.

Quote:
Since 2014, about 9,000 civilians have been killed in the Donbass. Such data were presented at the press conference “Scorched memory of Donbass: war crimes of the Ukrainian army and new data on the massacres of the civilian population.”

According to the representative of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the self-proclaimed Lugansk People's Republic (LPR) Anna Soroka, more than 2,000 civilians, including 35 children, were killed during the conflict in the republic, 3,365 people were injured, including 88 minors.

The Commissioner for Human Rights in the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR), Daria Morozova, said that more than 5,000 people, including 91 minor children, became victims among the population of the DPR. About 8 thousand more people were injured of varying severity during this period.

https://www.thecitizen.co.tz/tanzania/news/international/how-many-live
s-has-the-war-in-donbass-taken--3724098

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Monday, February 6, 2023 5:04 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

From your last two answers, a meta answer can be created:

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't believe the UN numbers, just like I don't believe OPCW, HRW, AI, or Medecins sans Frontieres.

While I'm at it, I don't believe the CIA, FBI, DOJ, Kiev, NED or AID either. OPCW has earned special emnity from the people of the Donbas for ignoring shelling by Kiev.

you???

Dood, your credibility here is trashed. Even your internet buds know you're a liar. Here's a couple of hints: If you're going to lie
a) try not to contradict yourself every other post
b) try not to post lies that are so demonstrably false.

I've seen people, same as you are doing, list all the other people they don't believe. I have seen drunken Trumptards go on and on about how they don't believe their wife, their bank, the pastor at their church, etc. The only person they trust is Trump. This is shortly before a final disaster befalls them because they can't trust and don't believe. Sometimes they even shake a fist at heaven, crying out that they have stopped believing in God.

Are you suffering a mental breakdown, Signym, like some downward spirally Trumptard in East Texas? Or Trump, himself? I hope your mental health is unconnected to Russia's national fortunes because there is a fair chance Russia won't be doing well five years from now compared to five years ago. The war in Ukraine will be the cause.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 6, 2023 5:19 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Trump shocks nation with claim about trusting Putin over US intelligence

Since Donald Trump hit the political scene there has been a debate over whether he’s in the pocket of Russian President Vladimir Putin or if he’s just a fool, an argument that has only intensified after the former president’s shocking Truth Social comments on Monday.

In a move that seemed wholly ill-thought-out, Trump suggested that Americans would be better served trusting Putin over their own intelligence services.

“Remember in Helsinki when a 3rd rate reporter asked me, essentially, who I trusted more, President Putin of Russia, or our ‘Intelligence’ lowlifes,” Trump wrote in a Truth Social post on Monday.

“My instinct at the time was that we had really bad people in the form of James Comey, McCabe (whose wife was being helped out by Crooked Hillary while Crooked was under investigation!),” Trump continued.

“Brennan, Peter Strzok (whose wife is at the SEC) & his lover, Lisa Page. Now add McGonigal & other slime to the list. Who would you choose, Putin or these Misfits?” Trump added.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-shocks-nation-with-claim
-about-trusting-putin-over-us-intelligence/ss-AA16W5Ha

I hope your mental health is unconnected to Trump's fortunes because there is a fair chance Trump won't be doing well five years from now compared to five years ago. The war in Ukraine will be the cause.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 6, 2023 5:33 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

One afternoon, five weeks before Election Day in 2016, on the 21st floor of a tower overlooking Manhattan’s Eighth Avenue, members of The Nation’s editorial advisory board gathered for a twice-annual meeting. Katrina vanden Heuvel—the magazine’s editor, publisher, and owner—invited attendees to hear from a special guest, who had come to warn them that criticizing Donald Trump’s involvements with Russia, or his relationship with Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, could trigger global nuclear annihilation. Vanden Heuvel, who was 56, gestured to her husband, Stephen F. Cohen, then 77, a retired professor of Russian studies. Russia and the United States “were closer to war than at any time since the Cuban missile crisis,” he told the board. He also derided Democrats and American media organizations for “demonization of Russian President Putin.”

Philip Green, a political theorist who had been on the board for forty years, listened with skepticism. Cohen’s theory, “presented with deadly and urgent seriousness,” he thought, appeared to be channeling the paranoia of the far-right. Others felt the same way. But afterward, Green says, “It became the party line.”

Cohen would go on to make the same argument in at least 160 Nation articles; more than a hundred talk radio show appearances; and on Russia’s state-owned international channel, Russia Today (RT). In many cases, his articles were “essentially transcribed radio programs that were unedited and did not go through other editorial filters,” according to Robert Dreyfuss, a Nation contributing editor and investigative journalist. Accusing the Russian government of committing an act of war by hacking the Democratic National Committee, Cohen warned, might mean “the necessity of actual war, conceivably nuclear war, against Russia.” He wrote that “villainizing the Kremlin—without much evidence—is increasing the possibility of a US-Russian war.” Once Trump took office, Cohen branded media investigations of Russia’s involvement with the Trump campaign as “neo-McCarthyism” and “Kremlin-baiting.”

For these critiques, Cohen won praise from outlets such as Fox News and Breitbart, anathema to The Nation readership; soon, he began making periodic appearances on Tucker Carlson Tonight. “Today, in my scholarly, long-term judgment, relations between the United States and Russia are more dangerous than they have ever—let me repeat, ever—been, including the Cuban missile crisis,” Cohen told Carlson in 2018.

Nation employees became uneasy about Cohen’s assertions and who was airing his ideas. “The people who work there, especially the younger staff, are disgruntled about the Russia coverage,” Adam Shatz, a former Nation writer and literary editor, says. A joke began circulating around the office: “We tried to fact check Steve’s pieces but we couldn’t find any facts to check.” [Continue reading at https://bylinetimes.com/2023/02/04/russia-and-the-us-press-the-article
-the-cjr-didnt-publish/ ]

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 6, 2023 9:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Trump shocks nation with claim about trusting Putin over US intelligence

Since Donald Trump hit the political scene there has been a debate over whether he’s in the pocket of Russian President Vladimir Putin or if he’s just a fool, an argument that has only intensified after the former president’s shocking Truth Social comments on Monday.

In a move that seemed wholly ill-thought-out, Trump suggested that Americans would be better served trusting Putin over their own intelligence services.

“Remember in Helsinki when a 3rd rate reporter asked me, essentially, who I trusted more, President Putin of Russia, or our ‘Intelligence’ lowlifes,” Trump wrote in a Truth Social post on Monday.

“My instinct at the time was that we had really bad people in the form of James Comey, McCabe (whose wife was being helped out by Crooked Hillary while Crooked was under investigation!),” Trump continued.

“Brennan, Peter Strzok (whose wife is at the SEC) & his lover, Lisa Page. Now add McGonigal & other slime to the list. Who would you choose, Putin or these Misfits?” Trump added.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-shocks-nation-with-claim
-about-trusting-putin-over-us-intelligence/ss-AA16W5Ha

I hope your mental health is unconnected to Trump's fortunes because there is a fair chance Trump won't be doing well five years from now compared to five years ago. The war in Ukraine will be the cause.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

I don't trust anybody until they've given me reason to.

Putin hasn't given me reason to trust him.

At the same time, there is nothing that our "intelligence" or media could ever do to earn my trust after all that they have done.

It's absolutely appalling how they have weaponized the name Trump so much that they've got supposed liberal Democrats fucking simping for the alphabet agencies in the 2020s.

--------------------------------------------------

Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

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Monday, February 6, 2023 11:13 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
From your last two answers, a meta answer can be created:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't believe the UN numbers, just like I don't believe OPCW, HRW, AI, or Medecins sans Frontieres.

While I'm at it, I don't believe the CIA, FBI, DOJ, Kiev, NED or AID either. OPCW has earned special emnity from the people of the Donbas for ignoring shelling by Kiev.

you???

Dood, your credibility here is trashed. Even your internet buds know you're a liar. Here's a couple of hints: If you're going to lie
a) try not to contradict yourself every other post
b) try not to post lies that are so demonstrably false.
I've seen people, same as you are doing, list all the other people they don't believe.

Dood, if you weren't such an inveterate liar, I might read past your first sentence or two.

As it is, everything you post goes to trash.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Monday, February 6, 2023 12:32 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Putin Plans to 'Russify' Captured Ukrainian Areas With Elections

Regional elections will be held in parts of Ukraine that were illegally annexed and are partially under the control of Russian forces. These will coincide with elections scheduled across the border in Russia.

"Incorporating the elections into same day of voting which is scheduled across Russia highlights the leadership's ambition to present the areas as integral parts of the Federation," the defense ministry said on Monday. "This follows continued efforts to 'Russify' the occupied areas, which include revision of the education, communication, and transport systems."

The defense ministry added that, while meaningful democratic choices are no longer available to voters at even regional-level elections in Russia, "leaders will likely make the self-vindicating argument that new elections further justify the occupation."

And on January 24, Russian Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin signed a government order instructing the Russian Federal Penitentiary Service to set up 24 new penal colonies in the four newly-annexed regions.

According to the decree from the Russian government, 12 penal colonies will be set up in the Donetsk region. There will be a further seven in the Luhansk region, and three in the Russian-controlled part of the Kherson region. An additional two facilities will be built in Zaporizhzhia, where a "settlement-type colony" will also be established.

https://www.newsweek.com/putin-russia-annexed-regions-ukraine-election
s-1779124

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 6, 2023 12:33 PM

Lies, lies.

--------------------------------------------------

Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

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Monday, February 6, 2023 12:39 PM

THG

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I don't believe the UN numbers, just like I don't believe OPCW, HRW, AI, or Medecins sans Frontieres.

While I'm at it, I don't believe the CIA, FBI, DOJ, Kiev, NED or AID either. OPCW has earned special emnity from the people of the Donbas for ignoring shelling by Kiev.

That is because you're Russian comrade. Something you keep denying but are continually exposed to be. Oh yeah, some estimates now have Russia's death and casualty rate at over 200,000.

Can_you_see_me_laughing?

T

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Monday, February 6, 2023 1:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I don't believe the UN numbers, just like I don't believe OPCW, HRW, AI, or Medecins sans Frontieres.

While I'm at it, I don't believe the CIA, FBI, DOJ, Kiev, NED or AID either. OPCW has earned special emnity from the people of the Donbas for ignoring shelling by Kiev.

That is because you're Russian comrade. Something you keep denying but are continually exposed to be. Oh yeah, some estimates now have Russia's death and casualty rate at over 200,000.

Can_you_see_me_laughing?

T

Laughing?

What is this? A fucking video game to you, Ted?

Maybe your ass needs to be on the front lines instead of safe in your warm house virtue signalling from your keyboard.

You are a miserable little worm who needs to get his ass kicked.

--------------------------------------------------

Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

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Monday, February 6, 2023 1:50 PM

THG

Hmmm, I wonder. Who here can be quoted a hundred times posting fuck Ukraine? I hope they lose and we should leave them to suffer their fate. Hmmm, I wonder.

T

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Monday, February 6, 2023 2:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I don't believe the UN numbers, just like I don't believe OPCW, HRW, AI, or Medecins sans Frontieres.

While I'm at it, I don't believe the CIA, FBI, DOJ, Kiev, NED or AID either. OPCW has earned special emnity from the people of the Donbas for ignoring shelling by Kiev.

That is because you're Russian comrade. Something you keep denying but are continually exposed to be. Oh yeah, some estimates now have Russia's death and casualty rate at over 200,000.

Can_you_see_me_laughing?

T

Laughing?

What is this? A fucking video game to you, Ted?

Maybe your ass needs to be on the front lines instead of safe in your warm house virtue signalling from your keyboard.

You are a miserable little worm who needs to get his ass kicked.

--------------------------------------------------

Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Hmmm, I wonder. Who here can be quoted a hundred times posting fuck Ukraine? I hope they lose and we should leave them to suffer their fate. Hmmm, I wonder.

T

Yeah. I did say that. Many, many times.

But I've also said that we should offer refuge to anybody in Ukraine who wants to come here. But we never fucking talk about that because they're not Mexican or Middle Eastern (ie: They're white), and we're too busy using them as cannon fodder for NATO's war.

When I say FUCK UKRAINE, I'm saying FUCK NATO and FUCK US IMPERIALISM and FUCK THE WAR ON RUSSIA BY PROXY and FUCK GIVING THEM HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO FIGHT IT.

You're so fucking stupid I don't think you could even understand any of that.

Meanwhile, you cheerlead the death of what could possibly be a quarter of a million people who happen to live in a place that you don't approve of them living, and you're keeping score of deaths like this is a fucking football game.

You are at total piece of shit, Ted.

Get your head on straight or disappear. Nobody needs to hear any more sick opinions out of you.

The fact that people like you even exist disgusts me.

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Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

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Monday, February 6, 2023 2:57 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

“Again and again we are forced to repel the aggression of the collective West,” was Putin's comparison between Ukraine and the Great Patriotic War. As for the “collective West,” no mention was made of Joseph Stalin’s invasion of Poland 16 days after Adolf Hitler’s, as per their mutually agreed carve-up of Eastern Europe, which culminated in a joint victory parade between German and Soviet armies in Brest-Litovsk on Sept. 22, 1939.

https://news.yahoo.com/it-has-started-russia-prepares-new-ukraine-offe
nsive-as-western-allies-approve-more-weapons-223408533.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, February 6, 2023 10:26 PM

FUCK UKRAINE.

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Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2023 7:17 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
FUCK UKRAINE.

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Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

I am beginning to think all the bad things that happened to you have common cause. I already knew that the bad things that happened to Russia (62 million political murders, poor economic performance compared to countries of similar massive size and cold weather, i.e. Canada) have a common cause.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, February 7, 2023 7:18 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

The Two Stalingrads

by Elliot Ackerman

. . . After the event, my interpreter told me that veterans of the Soviet war existed in a cultural limbo in Ukraine, which was why these men so appreciated any public discussion about Afghanistan. They had served in the Soviet military, which—adjacent as it was to the modern-day Russian military—made their service suspect to many younger Ukrainians. However, when they’d fought in the Soviet military, they’d done so as Ukrainians. The Soviet military legacy—in Afghanistan but even more importantly in the Second World War—wasn’t simply a Russian one but a Ukrainian one.

Last week marked the 80th anniversary of the Battle for Stalingrad, the Soviet Union’s victory over Nazi Germany, which turned the tide of the Second World War. To mark the occasion, President Vladimir Putin traveled to Stalingrad, now called Volgograd. In a televised speech, he said, “The legacy of generations, values and traditions—this is all what makes Russia different, what makes us strong and confident in ourselves, in our righteousness and in our victory.” What he neglected to mention was that the victory at Stalingrad over the Nazis and fascism wasn’t simply a Russian victory; it was a Ukrainian one too.

After I met those Ukrainian veterans of the Soviet war in Afghanistan, my interpreter recommended I read the work of Vasily Grossman, a Ukrainian Soviet Jew born outside Kyiv. Grossman was at Stalingrad and became perhaps the greatest chronicler of the Soviet experience in the Second World War. Although he was Ukrainian, he wrote in Russian and died in Moscow.

Grossman authored several novels about the Second World War, but the interplay among Ukrainian, Russian, and Soviet identities and narratives is most prominently on display in his 1942 book, The People Immortal. Told through a series of interconnected vignettes, the book chronicles the Red Army’s retreat through Ukraine in the months after the German invasion on June 22, 1941:

Dust hangs over Ukraine and Belorussia; it swirls over the Soviet earth. At night, the dark August sky reddens from the sinister glow of burning villages … Old men, women and children in villages and hamlets wave the retreating soldiers on their way, offering them curd cheese pies, cucumbers and glasses of milk. The old women weep and weep, searching amid thousands of grim, dusty, exhausted faces for the face of a son. And they hold out the little white bundles with their gifts of food, “Take this, love. You are all my own sons. Every one of you has a place in my heart.”

In the pages that follow, calamity piles on calamity as the assembled cast—soldiers, political commissars, and civilians alike—absorb the brunt of Hitler’s invasion. The place names read as if they were taken from today’s headlines: Kharkiv, Dnipro, Chernihiv.

The drumbeat of military disasters in The People Immortal would make for intolerably dark reading if not for our knowledge that this string of Soviet military defeats is simply a prelude to the victory at Stalingrad and the eventual defeat of Nazi Germany. From the first page, we know the ending, and it is a triumphant one. The book derives its momentum because the reader is situated within a well-understood narrative. However, when reading The People Immortal through the lens of Russia’s current war against Ukraine, there is no clear ending to place the reader at ease.

Putin has repeatedly justified his invasion of Ukraine under the pretense of de-Nazification. Grossman’s descriptions of the Nazi military machine, however, are disturbingly reminiscent of today’s Russian-invasion force. Sergey Bogariov, one of the Soviet commissars in the novel, describes the Nazi invaders as follows: “Every realm of German creative thought has been rendered sterile. The Fascists are powerless to create; they cannot write books or compose music or poetry. They are stagnant—they are a swamp. They have brought only one new element to world history and politics: shameless brigandry and organized atrocity!”

Russia’s indiscriminate bombing of Ukrainian cities from Mariupol to Kherson certainly feels like “shameless brigandry and organized atrocity.” Grossman’s recounting of the relentless Nazi bombing of civilians reads like a dispatch from Bakhmut, which the Ukrainians are defending much as their Soviet forebearers once defended Stalingrad. Tragically, the societal sterility that Grossman associates with fascism is applicable to Russia today. Putin’s war has made Russia a pariah, relegating its historically vibrant culture to the margins.

Many Ukrainians — both before and after February 24, 2022 — have been suspicious of any narrative that places blame for Russia’s aggression solely on Putin and does not extend that blame to the Russian people who have enabled him. Russia has a history of paternalistic attitudes toward Ukraine, attitudes that persist and have contributed to the current war. The two countries remain closely bound, though, despite their distinct identities. It’s impossible for either Russia or Ukraine to claim sole ownership of the heroic narrative of Soviet resistance in the Second World War. Grossman’s work proves only how inextricably linked both national identities are to the Soviet narrative legacy, one that Russia has weaponized against Ukraine even as Ukrainians are displaying the mettle of their Soviet predecessors in battles fought on the same ground where Nazis and Soviets clashed 80 years ago.

Grossman published The People Immortal in serialized form in Red Star, the official newspaper of the Soviet Ministry of Defense. It was received with general acclaim both at home and abroad as the first book on the Soviet military experience against the Germans. Grossman, who eventually became the Soviet Union’s preeminent war correspondent, steers away from criticism of the Stalinist regime. In the hands of a lesser writer, Grossman’s tales of heroism, of the solidarity between regular soldiers and political commissars, and his romanticized descriptions of Soviet life under Stalin, would be sentimental, except Grossman is self-aware to a fault. He understands that, like the infantrymen and tankers he describes, he’s a soldier, too, only stories are his weapon.

As a storyteller, he has much in common with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, who has also demonstrated a preternatural understanding of the importance of narrative in war. Zelensky, like Grossman, has taken a side and is a participant in the events, but as storytellers, neither hides their biases and both can be subversive. The world will long remember Zelensky’s publicized response to the Biden administration’s offer of an evacuation: “I need ammunition, not a ride.”

Grossman is often subversive, perhaps no more so than in his book’s title, The People Immortal, which, as its chapters unfold, begins to ask: Who are the immortal people?

It would be the Soviets, except the Soviets no longer exist as a people. A passage in the book’s final pages seems to answer the question for today’s readers:

The wind whistled over the fields. Two men appeared from where the fires were starting to die out … Blood was seeping through their clothes. They were taking slow, heavy steps, each supporting the other. Where it flowed down onto the ground, the blood of the two men mixed together. They were brothers; nothing in life or death could now separate them.

More at https://web.archive.org/web/20230206165502/https://www.theatlantic.com
/ideas/archive/2023/02/the-people-immortal-vasily-grossman-nazi-soviet-ukraine-russia-zelensky/672960/

Free download of Vasily Grossman’s novels from the mirrors at https://libgen.unblockit.ink/fiction/?q=Vasily+Grossman

Free download of a single novel, The People Immortal from https://libgen.rocks/ads.php?md5=F07AD17F9DDB73B6675B1B410DA5514F or https://libgen.unblockit.ink/libraryp2/fiction/F07AD17F9DDB73B6675B1B4
10DA5514F

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, February 7, 2023 10:01 AM