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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Another organization of cases in America, Canada.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Yanno Jack - it's not as if I didn't do any reading either, or understand the basic biological processes, or the testing technology, electronics, chemistry, or ... anything.

But I know you'll dismiss that.

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You have no problems dismissing all of that, because that lets you keep your religion.

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1KIKI:
Yanno Jack - it's not as if I didn't do any reading either, or understand the basic biological processes, or the testing technology, electronics, chemistry, or ... anything.

But I know you'll dismiss that. My lived experience doesn't count

JSF: I bit of a rant there.

KIKI: All the science, technology, and biology my understanding is based on is brainwashing.

JSF: This seems a strawman from you.
For those of us not attending the Church of your AIDS religion, it is dissapointing that you have abandoned your science, technology, and biology to suspect disbelief in order to devoutly folow

All the studies I read from all the researchers in all the countries all around the world over all the decades are just some global hoax.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
bullshit

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
You two...

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol Religion.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Coronavirus tidbit: the virus may have been here for some time. Health care professionals have not necessarily been looking for it though. When someone presents with pneumonia or flu symptoms they are not necessarily suspected or tested for a "new" flu, so the diagnosis may have been missed. It could explain why some people seem to have no trace back to a known carrier or hot place and why it seems to be popping up in so many countries so "quickly." It may have already been there but not until China are we focused on that strain specifically and looking for it.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol Religion.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Cites and links?

Otherwise: "LOL religion", to you.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Unless you post relevant UP TO DATE FACTS to back your religion up, I'll not discuss this further and I'll simply mock your ignorance.

You're worse than an idiot about HIV/ AIDS.



Belief is for wimps and mental midgets!

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Quote:

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Unless you post relevant UP TO DATE FACTS to back your religion up, I'll not discuss this further and I'll simply mock your ignorance.

You're worse than an idiot about HIV/ AIDS.



Belief is for wimps and mental midgets!

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
KIKI, leave SIX alone about this. I worry about his emotional state and his sobriety, He may be drunk-posting again.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
stupidity

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Nope. Not drinking.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yup. I'm not going to start drinking because somebody is trying to force their religion post their facts on to me.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Unless you post relevant UP TO DATE FACTS to back your religion up, I'll not discuss this further and I'll simply mock your ignorance.

You're worse than an idiot about HIV/ AIDS.

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Belief is for wimps and mental midgets!

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Where is your EVIDENCE? Bring your cites and links here, so we can discuss them, because everything I have read says otherwise.

In order to meet the criteria that the HIV virus causes disease, it meets the following criteria:

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It seems to me that the person with th religion is you, so bring your arguments forth and we can discuss them.

*****

Now, I'm well aware that there are many "diseases" that aren't caused by germs: Heart disease. Nutritional deficiencies like pellagra disease. Rhuematoid arthritis and other autoimmune "dieases". Genetic and mitochondrial diseases.

Still, you can't dismiss the "germ theory of disease" in relationship to AIDS. Well, maybe YOU can, but you shouldn't.

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Where is your EVIDENCE? Bring your cites and links here, so we can discuss them, because everything I have read says otherwise.

In order to meet the criteria that the HIV virus causes disease, it meets the following criteria:...

JSF: Meaning the following 4 pillars are equally loaded, and the failure of any one pillar collapses the premise/hypothesis/belief.
1
SIGNY.... The presence of the virus is correlated with the disease...

JSF: Here you are tiptoeing carefully round the facts. I don't have my books or references handy right now, so I must recall what I can. Of the correlations of "the disease" (meaning the symptom package), the presence of the HIV Antibody ranks 3rd, with around 80% correlation among those not subjected to "AIDS Medications" (aka Drugs). The 2 correlations which are greater are one at about mid-80's and the other about 92%. I forget the order of the 2, but the correlations are for Marijuana Abuse, and for Cocaine Use/Abuse. Not the greatest or most convincing argument for any virus causing any "desease" - although in reasearch, correlation is a useful clue.
Correlation does not equal causation.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Where is your EVIDENCE? Bring your cites and links here, so we can discuss them, because everything I have read says otherwise.

In order to meet the criteria that the HIV virus causes disease, it meets the following criteria:...

JSF: Meaning the following 4 pillars are equally loaded, and the failure of any one pillar collapses the premise/hypothesis/belief.
1
SIGNY.... The presence of the virus is correlated with the disease...

JSF: Here you are tiptoeing carefully round the facts. I don't have my books or references handy right now, so I must recall what I can. Of the correlations of "the disease" (meaning the symptom package), the presence of the HIV Antibody ranks 3rd, with around 80% correlation among those not subjected to "AIDS Medications" (aka Drugs). The 2 correlations which are greater are one at about mid-80's and the other about 92%. I forget the order of the 2, but the correlations are for Marijuana Abuse, and for Cocaine Use/Abuse. Not the greatest or most convincing argument for any virus causing any "desease" - although in reasearch, correlation is a useful clue.
Correlation does not equal causation.

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I have no idea WTF you're writing about. Maybe you need to drill down a little on what the "symptom package" is, and what is being correlated to what, because I am not thinking about generic symptoms like "diarrhea" or "weight loss". So be specific... WHAT is being correlated to marijuana and cocaine?

I'll leave the rest for later.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The irony.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Short answer: All of the 30+ diseases with their known symptoms and known causes which have, post-1980, been redefined as "AIDS" - even though all of the same exact causes are present, and all of the same exact symptoms are present.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Short answer: All of the 30+ diseases with their known symptoms and known causes which have, post-1980, been redefined as "AIDS" - even though all of the same exact causes are present, and all of the same exact symptoms are present.

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Quite obviously you have NO idea what an 'opportunistic pathogen' is.

And that's a lack of basic information that keeps you from understanding your own post.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, still, don't be offended if I ignore everything you post about AIDS. Just because someone weaponized it ("Never let a good crisis go to waste") doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I can't believe this. SOMEbody must be punking us.


38% Of People In Survey Are Avoiding Corona Beer Due To Coronavirus
https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/americans-avoiding-corona-beer-a
mid-coronavirus-outbreak-survey/

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Short answer: All of the 30+ diseases with their known symptoms and known causes which have, post-1980, been redefined as "AIDS" - even though all of the same exact causes are present, and all of the same exact symptoms are present.

The so-called "AIDS" cases were defined and classed by the "AIDS" advocates to support their AIDS epidemic hysteria, so whatever they used as definition was what was used for the correlation. Since the AIDS hoax was not scientific, it is not like we can retroactively make scientific the illogical diagnosis, they were merely accepted for the criteria of determining correlation.

Somebdy mentioned 2 examples earlier - Kaposi's Sarcoma, and pneumocystis carinii.

I cannot pretend surprise if diarrhea or weight loss were used by AIDS advocates to define their "AIDS" cases, so if that is what the AIDS movement chose to define the cases, then nobody has been able to talk sense into them, then or now.


eta:


WHO’S RECOMMENDED CASE DEFINITION FOR AIDS

Different case definitions are used in different countries, depending on population factors (children, adults, relative occurrence of opportunistic infection) and on the laboratory infrastructure and training available. Current most used case definitions include for countries with... more sophisticated laboratory facilities
CDC 1987 (1)
CDC/CD4 (2)
European (3)

limited laboratory facilities
Abidjan/WHO (4)
Bangui/WHO (clinical) (5)
Caracas/PAHO (6) revised Caracas/PAHO (7)

1. 1987 CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION SURVEILLANCE DEFINITION FOR AIDS

Without laboratory evidence of HIV infection (in the absence of other causes of immune suppression)

Indicator disease diagnosed definitively
Candidiasis of the oesophagus, trachea, bronchi, or lungs
Cryptococcosis, extrapulmonary
Cryptosporidiosis with diarrhoea persisting > 1 month
Cytomegalovirus diseases of an organ other than liver spleen, or lymph nodes in a patient >1 month of age
Herpes simplex virus infection causing a mucocutaneous ulcer persisting > 1 month; or bronchitis, pneumonitis, or
oesophagitis for any duration in a patient > 1 month of age
Kaposi’ s sarcoma in a patient < 60 years of age
Lymphoma of the brain(primary) affecting a patient < 60 years of age
Mycobacterium avuim complex or M .kansasii disease, disseminated (at a site other than or in addition to
lungs, skin, or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia
Progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy
Toxoplasmosis of the brain in a patient > 1 month of age

With laboratory evidence of HIV infection
Indicator diseases diagnosed definitively
Coccidiomycosis, disseminated (at a site other than or in addition to lungs or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
HIV encephalopathy
Histoplasmosis, disseminated(at a sit other than or in addition to lungs or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
Isosporiasis with diarrhoea persisting > 1 month
Kaposi’ s sarcoma at any age
Lymphoma of the brain (primary ) at any age
Non-Hodgkin’ s lymphoma
Any mycobacterial disease caused by mycobacteria other than M. tuberculosis, disseminated
Disease caused by M. tuberculosis, extrapulmonary
Salmonella (non-typhoid ) septicaemia, recurrent
HIV wasting syndrome
Indicator diseases diagnosed presumptively
Candidiasis of the oesophagus
Cytomegalovirus retinitis with loss of vision
Kaposi’ s sarcoma
Mycobacterial disease, disseminated
Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia
Toxoplasmosis of the brain in a patient> 1 month of age

2. CONDITIONS* ADDED TO THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION 1993 SURVEILLANCE DEFINITION FOR AIDS (WITH LABORATORY EVIDENCE OF HIV INFECTION in addition to those in the 1987 surveillance definition:

Source: WHO Recommended Surveillance Standards.
(Geneva: World Health Organization, WHO/EMC/DIS/97.1, 1997).
See http://www.who.int/emc

Centers for Disease Control, United States

The dominant definition currently is that developed by the Centers for Disease Control in the United States. It offers the following summary definition (at http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/hiv_aids/pubs/faq/faq2.htm):

AIDS stands for acquired immunodeficiency syndrome. An HIV-infected person receives a diagnosis of AIDS after developing one of the CDC-defined AIDS indicator illnesses. An HIV-positive person who has not had any serious illnesses also can receive an AIDS diagnosis on the basis of certain blood tests (CD4+ counts).

A positive HIV test result does not mean that a person has AIDS. A diagnosis of AIDS is made by a physician using certain clinical criteria (e.g., AIDS indicator illnesses).

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Here Nilbog has not one mention of AIDS.

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https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/tool-virus-requests.html

CDC’s diagnostic panel is intended for use by laboratories designated by CDC as qualified, and in the United States, certified under the Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments (CLIA) to perform high complexity tests. This includes U.S. state and local public health laboratories and Department of Defense (DoD) laboratories.

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https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/03/asia/novel-coronavirus-covid-19-int
l-hnk/index.html

The head of the World Health Organization (WHO) said that public health officials are operating in "uncharted territory" as they combat the spread of the novel coronavirus, which has infected more than 90,000 people across 73 countries and territories as of Monday evening.

The WHO has so far held off on classifying the incident as a global pandemic, but has warned it is a possibility in the near future.

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"Let's be clear: The risk to the American people of the coronavirus remains low, according to all of the experts that we are working with across the government," Pence said.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
As far as testing is concerned ... I read an article which I will try to find (but doubtful in the welter of articles out there) that said that EVERY state public health lab in the USA was equipped and prepared to run diagnostic tests by an alternate method. The article implied that this involved looking for the RNA of the virus itself by direct sequencing. (Apparently coronaviruses are retroviruses) That's 50 labs. I'm sure there are many commercial labs equipped and prepared to do the same thing.


But the CDC is reluctant to sign off on an alternate test method ... I'm sure you understand both the urgency for, and the hesitation about implementing alternate test methods in a time-critical situation. As a former supervisor who's evaluated dozens of alternate methods and had to do rapid testing, sometimes for deadly poisons, I know I sure do! There's a huge problem if you fail to detect something meaningful.

But I would prolly sign off on alternate test methods if their performance was fairly well-known ... sensitivity, false positives v false negatives etc ... and design a program to take those test parameters into account. For example, if looking for viral RNA is plagued with false negatives, I would take a positive result as probative, but I would not "clear" patients with negative results until they had three negative results taken 7 days apart (or something like that).

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

---

Short answer: All of the 30+ diseases with their known symptoms and known causes which have, post-1980, been redefined as "AIDS" - even though all of the same exact causes are present, and all of the same exact symptoms are present.

The so-called "AIDS" cases were defined and classed by the "AIDS" advocates to support their AIDS epidemic hysteria, so whatever they used as definition was what was used for the correlation. Since the AIDS hoax was not scientific, it is not like we can retroactively make scientific the illogical diagnosis, they were merely accepted for the criteria of determining correlation.

Somebdy mentioned 2 examples earlier - Kaposi's Sarcoma, and pneumocystis carinii.

I cannot pretend surprise if diarrhea or weight loss were used by AIDS advocates to define their "AIDS" cases, so if that is what the AIDS movement chose to define the cases, then nobody has been able to talk sense into them, then or now.


eta:


WHO’S RECOMMENDED CASE DEFINITION FOR AIDS

Different case definitions are used in different countries, depending on population factors (children, adults, relative occurrence of opportunistic infection) and on the laboratory infrastructure and training available. Current most used case definitions include for countries with... more sophisticated laboratory facilities
CDC 1987 (1)
CDC/CD4 (2)
European (3)

limited laboratory facilities
Abidjan/WHO (4)
Bangui/WHO (clinical) (5)
Caracas/PAHO (6) revised Caracas/PAHO (7)

1. 1987 CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION SURVEILLANCE DEFINITION FOR AIDS

Without laboratory evidence of HIV infection (in the absence of other causes of immune suppression)

Indicator disease diagnosed definitively
Candidiasis of the oesophagus, trachea, bronchi, or lungs
Cryptococcosis, extrapulmonary
Cryptosporidiosis with diarrhoea persisting > 1 month
Cytomegalovirus diseases of an organ other than liver spleen, or lymph nodes in a patient >1 month of age
Herpes simplex virus infection causing a mucocutaneous ulcer persisting > 1 month; or bronchitis, pneumonitis, or
oesophagitis for any duration in a patient > 1 month of age
Kaposi’ s sarcoma in a patient < 60 years of age
Lymphoma of the brain(primary) affecting a patient < 60 years of age
Mycobacterium avuim complex or M .kansasii disease, disseminated (at a site other than or in addition to
lungs, skin, or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia
Progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy
Toxoplasmosis of the brain in a patient > 1 month of age

With laboratory evidence of HIV infection
Indicator diseases diagnosed definitively
Coccidiomycosis, disseminated (at a site other than or in addition to lungs or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
HIV encephalopathy
Histoplasmosis, disseminated(at a sit other than or in addition to lungs or cervical or hilar lymph nodes)
Isosporiasis with diarrhoea persisting > 1 month
Kaposi’ s sarcoma at any age
Lymphoma of the brain (primary ) at any age
Non-Hodgkin’ s lymphoma
Any mycobacterial disease caused by mycobacteria other than M. tuberculosis, disseminated
Disease caused by M. tuberculosis, extrapulmonary
Salmonella (non-typhoid ) septicaemia, recurrent
HIV wasting syndrome
Indicator diseases diagnosed presumptively
Candidiasis of the oesophagus
Cytomegalovirus retinitis with loss of vision
Kaposi’ s sarcoma
Mycobacterial disease, disseminated
Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia
Toxoplasmosis of the brain in a patient> 1 month of age

2. CONDITIONS* ADDED TO THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION 1993 SURVEILLANCE DEFINITION FOR AIDS (WITH LABORATORY EVIDENCE OF HIV INFECTION in addition to those in the 1987 surveillance definition:

Source: WHO Recommended Surveillance Standards.
(Geneva: World Health Organization, WHO/EMC/DIS/97.1, 1997).
See http://www.who.int/emc

Centers for Disease Control, United States

The dominant definition currently is that developed by the Centers for Disease Control in the United States. It offers the following summary definition (at http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/hiv_aids/pubs/faq/faq2.htm):

AIDS stands for acquired immunodeficiency syndrome. An HIV-infected person receives a diagnosis of AIDS after developing one of the CDC-defined AIDS indicator illnesses. An HIV-positive person who has not had any serious illnesses also can receive an AIDS diagnosis on the basis of certain blood tests (CD4+ counts).

A positive HIV test result does not mean that a person has AIDS. A diagnosis of AIDS is made by a physician using certain clinical criteria (e.g., AIDS indicator illnesses).

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So, JSF ... you claimed a 92% correlation bewteen marijuana/cocaine and ... something.

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