REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

new deadly human-to-human-transmissible coronavirus emerges out of China

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Monday, June 1, 2020 18:10
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Thursday, March 5, 2020 9:06 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

To help move this discussion along a bit, can you name the person who developed the hypothesis that "AIDS" was caused by HIV? If you wish to include the year, that is fine as well.
Sorry - NO ONE PERSON 'developed' the hypothesis. Teams did research and ISOLATED THE CAUSATIVE AGENT. Those teams were at the CDC and Pasteur Institute.

I'm sorry you don't understand the basics of scientific research, but I'm not going to create a high-school-through-graduate-level biology course of study for you just to make up for your lack of information.

If you don't like the history as it exists in the real world, feel free to look up whatever alternate reality you think might be out there on your own.

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Friday, March 6, 2020 12:21 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Yes. Do a lot of research yourself about fake research that fake people did about a fake virus, JSF.

Or just drop it and let people live with their delusions. You or anybody you care about will never get AIDS because AIDS doesn't get anybody.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, March 6, 2020 12:45 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


snicker

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Friday, March 6, 2020 12:33 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

“We are calling on every country to act with speed, scale and clear-minded determination,” the WHO’s director general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, said at the UN health agency’s Geneva headquarters.

Tedros voiced concern that “some countries have either not taken this seriously enough, or have decided there is nothing they can do,” Reuters reports. “This is not the time to give up. This is not a time for excuses. This is a time for pulling out all the stops,” he added.

Except calling it a "pandemic", which would cost the buyers of "pandemic bonds" their investment.

Sheesh.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Friday, March 6, 2020 12:39 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:



To help move this discussion along a bit, can you name the person who developed the hypothesis that "AIDS" was caused by HIV? If you wish to include the year, that is fine as well.

Your very first response JSF was something about some sort of correlation, which YOU claimed was at 92%. (oh btw that would be 0.92, not percent.) You have to show what you're correlating to what (Kaposi's sarcoma correlated to cocaine use?) first, and provide that data behind that correlation. It seems to be central to your opinion that AIDS isn't caused by the HIV, and I'm not going to "move the discussion along" at your convenience because you want to skip past that point

Still not going to move off that point, JSF.

You're a "numbers guy". Well, show me the numbers.

As I have said before, I used correlations all of the time at work. I even calculated the them good old-fashioned way (because Excel's spreadsheet didn't generate the same value. It seems as if it used some sort of calculation shortcut) The calculation is between "X" and "Y", not "X" and "A", or maybe "B" if I feel like it, or "C" if it bolsters my POV.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Friday, March 6, 2020 1:07 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa-coronavirus/
As of March 06, 2020 at 17:52 GMT, there have been 240 confirmed cases and 14 deaths due to coronavirus COVID-19 in the United States.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html
COVID-19: Cases in the United States Reported to CDC*†
Travel-related 36
Person-to-person spread 18
Under Investigation 110
Total cases 164
† CDC is no longer reporting the number of persons under investigation (PUIs) that have been tested, as well as PUIs that have tested negative. Now that states are testing and reporting their own results, CDC’s numbers are not representative of all testing being done nationwide.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda75
94740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Johns Hopkins
US 241

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Friday, March 6, 2020 1:11 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


You know how many people are going to die from smoking in America by the end of December this year?

Half a million.

That's hardly a drop in the bucket, and we're doing it to ourselves.

Allegedly, 41,000 of those will be innocent by-standards who didn't do it to themselves and are going to die from 2nd hand exposure.




Total cases of Coronavirus in America after a month is under 200?

Color me unperturbed.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, March 6, 2020 1:13 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I felt normal for a few hours yesterday after being sick 8 weeks ago. If they ever come out with a serology test (a blood test for antibodies) for COVID-19, and it's not over $1000 I'd consider getting tested, just to see.

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Friday, March 6, 2020 1:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I Lived Through SARS and Reported on Ebola. These Are the Questions We Should Be Asking About Coronavirus.

For concerned civilians and journalists covering the coronavirus, the figures and projections can be overwhelming, frightening or confusing. Here’s what reporter Caroline Chen is focusing on to keep things as accurate and clear as possible.

by Caroline Chen March 5, 3:58 p.m. EST

Thai nurses and doctors check temperatures of travelers coming from Hong Kong at the Bangkok International Airport in April 2003, during the SARS outbreak. Reporter Caroline Chen lived through SARS, and she covered Ebola, Zika and, now, coronavirus. (Paula Bronstein/Getty Images)
Series: Coronavirus

Is the United States Prepared for COVID-19?

ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up to receive our biggest stories as soon as they’re published.

I grew up in Hong Kong and was 13 when SARS swept through the city, infecting about 1,750 people and killing nearly 300. As a teenager, the hardest part was being stuck at home and missing my friends. I only started to pay attention to the daily death toll after my parents decided that’s what would dictate when I could go back to school. But the experience shaped me. I picked up personal hygiene habits, like pressing elevator buttons with my knuckles. And I developed a deep respect for front-line medical workers, many of whom labored around the clock until they, too, succumbed.

That was only my first experience with an outbreak.

In 2014, I was a rookie reporter on the Bloomberg News health desk helping to cover the growing Ebola crisis in West Africa when we got word that the U.S. had its first diagnosed patient. My editor looked down his row of reporters and his eyes fell on me, the one with no familial obligations. “Hey Caroline,” he said, “want to go to Dallas today?” The experience gave me a deeper look into how governments and scientists grapple with a fast-moving, deadly target. I learned about contact tracing as I tagged along with CDC disease detectives. A colleague and I delved deep into how the government’s cumbersome contracting process delayed the development of a possible treatment for Ebola. I later covered Zika, reporting on Florida’s lonely fight against the virus, as Congress gave the state little assistance.

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Every time, I’ve seen the same gaps emerge in the public’s understanding of what’s really happening. On one side, I have epidemiologists and lab directors explaining to me, in excruciating detail, nuanced models and technicalities, like how PCR assays work. On the other side, I see oversimplified headlines and misleading statistics touted by government officials.

Now I’m on ProPublica’s coronavirus reporting team, speaking to dozens of sources every day, from epidemiology experts and worried medical workers to members of the public, who are not sure what to take from the headlines they’re seeing. ProPublica specializes in accountability journalism, and our goal is to find out what’s happening and let the public know of any shortfalls in emergency response.

Get Involved
We Want to Talk to People Working or Living on the Front Lines of Coronavirus. Help Us Report.

Are you a public health worker, medical provider, elected official, patient or other COVID-19 expert? We’re looking for information and sources. Help make sure our journalism is responsible and focused on the right issues.

Here’s what you need to know:
Testing Is Still Limited

On Tuesday, after days of growing clamor to make more testing available, Vice President Mike Pence announced that the administration was issuing new guidance that “will make it clear that any American can be tested” for COVID-19, the disease caused by the virus, and said that 2,500 kits would be sent out this week, an equivalent of 1.5 million tests.

Lifting restrictions on testing criteria is a much-needed step, but if your takeaway was that hundreds of thousands of Americans will be able to walk into doctors’ offices by Friday and immediately get tested, you’d be wrong.

It doesn’t matter if boxes upon boxes of kits are available if labs are struggling to set up the tests or are short on staff to run them. At the end of the day, what I want to know (and I imagine, what everyone wants to know) is how many people can be tested. That’s the unit that I am pressing public health officials and lab directors for when I interview them.

Here are some basics that may be useful to keep in mind: The CDC test kits can be thought of somewhat like a Blue Apron meal kit; there’s some assembly required before a lab can begin testing. It’s not like a protein bar, ready to eat straight out of the wrapper.

As of Wednesday, the Association of Public Health Laboratories, which represents public health labs across the United States, told me that each CDC test kit can run about 700 specimens. Note the “about” — you might have heard that each CDC test kit can run 1,000 specimens. That’s also true, but labs use up a certain amount of material in the process of setting up the kit and also to ensure that all the results from actual patient samples are accurate. So that’s where the “about 700” number is coming from.

None of those numbers, so far, are in units of what I care about — patients. We’re still talking about samples and specimens. APHL says the labs are running two specimens per patient, to double-check the result. So that means you actually can only test 350 people per kit.

Reporters, if an official gives you a number that’s in samples, I urge you to follow up.

Instead of asking: How many test kits do you have?

Ask this: How many samples are you running per patient?

So that’s the kits. Let’s turn to staffing.

APHL told me on Wednesday that each public health lab can run about 100 samples per day. One hundred public labs received test kits from the CDC. When they’re all up and running, they’ll have a cumulative capacity of 10,000 samples a day. Remember, since we care about patients and not samples, divide by two. That’s 5,000 patients a day. (As of Thursday morning, 67 labs were taking patient samples, so that would come out to 3,350 patients a day.)

Many experts say we need far more testing capacity. A former FDA commissioner, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, told me that he’d like everyone with an influenza-like illness who tests negative for the flu to be able to get tested for COVID-19, which, given that we’re still in the midst of flu season, means a massive ramp-up would be required. In order to do that, the U.S. urgently needs academic medical centers to also come on board. Under pressure to expand capacity, the FDA loosened restrictions on Saturday to allow academic hospital labs to start testing. Some have. You can read more about that here. Testing giants Quest and LabCorp are also aiming to be online next week, which will help tremendously.

I urge reporters to keep labor capacity in mind when talking to their local labs.

Instead of asking: How many samples can you run?

Ask this: How many samples is your lab testing per day right now? How about at maximum capacity? How many hours does it take to get a result?

One last thing that’s good to know: There are commercial manufacturers at work to create off-the-shelf versions of these tests — the microwavable meal equivalent, if you will. But those companies have not given a precise timeline. Last week, Cepheid, a manufacturer based in California, told ProPublica it’s targeting the second quarter of this year for the release of its test.

The Death Rate Is Only an Estimate

The mortality rate is an awfully squishy number that’s being reported as if it’s a stone-cold fact. On Tuesday, a number of headlines trumpeted that the World Health Organization was saying the death rate was 3.4%. Some hand-wringing ensued over how this number was higher than the previous estimate of 2%.

Here’s what WHO Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said: “Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died.” Let’s zoom in on the word “reported.” The WHO puts out a daily situation report that you can find here. It defines confirmed as “a person with laboratory confirmation of COVID-19 infection.” As of Tuesday, the total number of deaths reported globally (3,112) as a fraction of the total number of confirmed cases reported globally (90,869) was 3.4%.

Here’s the problem, though. That denominator is laboratory-confirmed cases. As we know, in the U.S., it’s pretty hard to get tested right now. In fact, based on this definition, as of Wednesday night, the U.S. mortality rate based on CDC numbers — 9 reported deaths and 80 laboratory-confirmed cases — was 11%. You know that’s bogus. You know that’s because there’s not enough data, the denominator is pitifully small and we need to be testing a whole lot more people.

Over the last few weeks, many more countries have realized that the coronavirus has hit their shores. Some, like South Korea, are doing tons of testing and generating lots of data. Others, like the U.S., aren’t, as ProPublica has reported. The rate will also depend, country by country, on demographics (this virus is more deadly to the elderly) and resources (like ventilators). It’s not surprising that the global mortality rate based on confirmed cases might fluctuate for a while.

When most people talk about fatality rates, they’re thinking: If I get this, will I die? The only way to actually answer that question is to know how many people have been infected, and for now, that’s nearly impossible. As Marc Lipsitch, an infectious disease epidemiologist at Harvard’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health points out, deaths are the most obvious and easy thing to catch, whereas infected people who stay at home and those with no symptoms are incredibly hard to account for. That tends to skew the fatality rate higher, especially earlier on in an epidemic.

What we do know for now is that it’s more deadly than the seasonal flu, which generally kills far fewer than 1% of those infected, and less deadly than a disease like SARS, which killed about 10% of those infected during the outbreak in 2002-3.

When I write about the mortality rate, I try to use caveats like “estimated” or “scientists understand it to be around” so readers understand it’s not fixed in stone.

Instead of saying: The mortality rate is X%.

Say this: Scientists estimate the mortality rate is X%, based on the information they have.

Be Careful with Projections

Another slippery number out there is what’s known as the basic reproduction number, R0 (pronounced R-naught). It’s a measure of contagion, the average number of people who will catch the disease from a single infected person. For similar reasons as above, this number is currently a moving target, as more data is gathered from around the world. So far, estimates have largely been in the range of 2 to 3.

What this means for reporters is that if someone tries to say something like, there’s going to be X number of cases by a certain date, that can’t be a hard and fast number. I’d want to know what assumptions were used to calculate that forecast. What was the R0 presumed? How about the serial interval, the duration between the onset of symptoms between one case and its secondary cases? Tweaking either of those numbers by just a bit can result in very different forecasts, which you can see by playing around with this interactive tool by the University of Toronto. Generally, I shy away from putting a projection in a headline, where any hope of nuance might be lost, but if I have to, a range is safer than a single number that readers might interpret as somehow immutable.

Furthermore, as of early March, there are many fundamental questions about the novel coronavirus that scientists still don’t fully understand. For example, while it’s clear that the primary method of transmission is via droplets, drops of fluid from the mouth or nose emitted when an infected person coughs or sneezes, it’s not clear if it can transmit as an aerosol, meaning it is airborne and floats around (this is considered to be unlikely). It’s also not conclusive if the virus can be spread by infected people before they present any symptoms.

Instead of asking: How many cases will there be at X point in time?

Ask this: What assumptions were used to calculate your prediction? What’s the upper and lower range of your projection?
Information Is Changing Quickly and May Soon Be Out of Date

One last thing I’d like to add: Even more so than usual, things are moving quickly. I’ve been on interviews where the information I was given was outdated — as in just plain wrong — by the time I filed my draft 12 hours later. This is, of course, terrifying as a reporter. So I’m trying my best to put information like “as of Wednesday morning” alongside facts and figures in my stories, and I’m encouraging my sources to update me as often as they can.
OK, but How Do I Protect Myself?

Over the last two days, I’ve gotten numerous DMs over Twitter from concerned members of the public, asking me what they should do to be safe. Honestly, this breaks my heart and speaks to a failure of local health officials to educate them. I’m having the same conversations over and over again, so I thought I’d share some of my thoughts here. I’m not a medical professional, so this is not medical advice.

Start by knowing yourself. Are you elderly or immunocompromised? Young and healthy? Your risk varies depending on your personal profile. If you’re concerned about your health, I encourage you to talk through your fears with your doctor. I’m 29; I know there’s little chance that this virus would kill me given the information I’ve seen. (In data published last month by the Chinese CDC, out of more than 72,000 diagnosed cases, 8.1% were 20-somethings, and the fatality rate in that age bracket was 0.2%.) That said, given my personal medical history and tendency to get bronchitis, I would really prefer not to get infected.

Read More
House Democrats Probe Faulty Test Kits’ Role in Delaying Coronavirus Response

The House Oversight Committee cited ProPublica’s reporting in requesting documents from the Trump administration.

So how does that translate into action? Here have been my personal choices so far. I’m still flying; I just got off a plane to attend a reporting conference in New Orleans. (I would not attend a conference in the Seattle area, however, given how signs are pointing to widespread community transmission.) I don’t see how being on a plane increases my personal risk any more than being on the New York City subway. That said, I am not shaking any hands at this conference, and I’m ramping up my hygiene game: washing my hands more frequently and encouraging my colleagues to do so as well.

I’m aware of the possibility that I may need to work from home in the near future, if I or my husband get sick, or if there’s an explosion of cases in New York City and social distancing measures are encouraged. So we are slowly but methodically picking up a little bit of extra food with every grocery run (for our two cats as well!), just so that we’d have enough at home if we need to be indoors for a few weeks. I’m not panicked, nor should you be. I’d encourage you to check on your neighbors — especially the older ones, or those with young children, and see if you can pick up some additional groceries for them.

Even if we have to stand a little farther apart from one another, the best way to get through this is with a bit of extra compassion to bridge the gap.


https://www.propublica.org/article/i-lived-through-sars-and-reported-o
n-ebola-these-are-the-questions-we-should-be-asking-about-coronavirus?utm_source=pocket-newtab


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Friday, March 6, 2020 1:33 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You know how many people are going to die from smoking in America by the end of December this year?
Half a million.
That's hardly a drop in the bucket, and we're doing it to ourselves.
Allegedly, 41,000 of those will be innocent by-standards who didn't do it to themselves and are going to die from 2nd hand exposure.
Total cases of Coronavirus in America after a month is under 200?

Color me unperturbed.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIX, you insist on thinking of this as a static situation - where the number of smokers stays approximately the same, and you're looking at lifetime risk- when it is instead a rapidly-evolving one when you need to be looking at the risk from this event. You're a smart guy; so adjust your thinking.

In a couple of weeks, the number of [detected] cases might be 5,000. A couple of weeks after that, it might be 50,000. After that, it might be in the hundreds of thousands. Instead of being backward-looking, try a bit of projection.

Now, for you, personally, your risk is low. You're a younger, reasonably healthy man living an isolated life. For me... not so young, not so healthy, in a county with a lot of international travel and contacts. My next-door neighbors? South Korean. Very Xtian. Maybe members of that doomsday cult thats 85% infected in Korea. They HAVE had S Kprean visitors in the past. Who's to say they aren't hosting someone from S Korea right now, someone who flew here to escape the risk? Someone who may have brought the risk with them?

Anyway, at the moment my risk is very low. I would consider being at-risk when there are roughly 1000 detected cases in LA County which might mean 10,000 undetected cases. Whatever precautions I'm taking right now are just "practice" ... something to get me in the habit. A week from now, it might be for real.

At what point would YOU be concerned? when there are 1000 detected cases in your county? When your neighbor gets sick? (BTW, at that point it would be too late.)

Give it some thought.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Friday, March 6, 2020 1:57 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I felt normal for a few hours yesterday after being sick 8 weeks ago. If they ever come out with a serology test (a blood test for antibodies) for COVID-19, and it's not over $1000 I'd consider getting tested, just to see.




I'm going to start a Kickstarter for COVID-19 testing kits that will cost $999.99.

I'm going to be a millionaire by next month.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, March 6, 2020 2:37 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Is that with or without sales tax?

Just kidding!

And, Jack, fwiw, as much excellent work as you've done on your house, I wouldn't get your kit. Just sayin'.

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Friday, March 6, 2020 3:41 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Used Ontario mass transit, and traveled to Vegas.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/ontario-reports-covid-19-case-122022546.html

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Friday, March 6, 2020 5:03 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Italy coronavirus death toll surges

https://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/virus-italy-outbreak/2020/03/
03/id/956792
/

Shortly after the contagion first came to light on Feb. 20, the government imposed a quarantine on two areas - one encompassing 10 Lombardy towns southeast of Milan, and another, smaller red zone in the region of Veneto to the east.

Inhabitants are blocked inside the affected towns and police prevent any outsiders from entering. (That's the definition of a cordon sanitaire.)

(Despite instituting precautions like creating no-go zones and closing schools, SARS-COV-2 cases and deaths have continued to spread beyond the initial outbreak area.)

A high concentration of new cases has emerged around the city of Bergamo, northeast of the financial capital Milan, and the head of the national health institute told reporters a new red zone may be imposed there to try to stem the rise.

Italy's health authorities said on Tuesday they may set up a new quarantine red zone to try to contain the coronavirus outbreak in Europe's worst-hit country, after the death toll and the number of cases jumped.

Twenty-seven people died of the highly contagious illness in Italy over the past 24 hours, bringing the total number of dead to 79, the Civil Protection Agency said. The increase in deaths was the largest since the outbreak surfaced 12 days ago in the wealthy northern regions of Lombardy and Veneto.




If new case numbers are still rising, I think it's not under control.

I wonder what Tedros is waiting for ... for this to burn itself out without calling it a pandemic, thereby rescuing those poor bond-holders?



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Friday, March 6, 2020 8:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Some theorize that Italy and Iran have a particularly deadly strain of the virus. First heard this on Chris Martensen Peak Prosperity but don't recall where he got that from. His discussion revolves around the #recovered v the #died, which is prolly easier to measure than #died v #infected, since at the moment don't know the actual infection rate. So possibly Italy and Iran are dealing with something a little different. (Originally I attributed their high apparent death rate to little testing and number fudging.)

Read somewhere else, again don't remember where, that covid-19 represents two different strains, one very infectious with severe symptoms and one a little something with less critical illness. M and S I think they called them. The deadlier strain is spreading at a slower rate because it's more obvious and tends to be controlled earlier but the milder version keeps spreading at a more consistent rate, prolly because it's less obvious.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Friday, March 6, 2020 9:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Yeah, I don't have any solid info on that.

When it comes to Italy, everyone says what DRACONIAN measure China took to deal with the virus - and that western nations couldn't possibly implement them. I'm watching Italy because I'm curious to see if I can stumble on what, if any, measures seem to help.

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Friday, March 6, 2020 9:27 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-07-20-intl-
hnk/index.html

9 min ago
BREAKING: More than 300 cases of coronavirus confirmed in the US

CDC says older adults should “stay at home as much as possible” due to coronavirus

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Friday, March 6, 2020 9:30 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

A Trump administration official tells CNN that the US Department of Health and Human Services "is in the process of doing targeted outreach to the elderly community and those that have serious underlying health conditions."

The CDC guidance comes as two top infectious disease experts with ties to the federal government have advised people over 60 and those with underlying health problems to strongly consider avoiding activities that involve large crowds, such as traveling by airplane, going to movie theaters or concerts, attending family events, shopping at crowded malls, and going to religious services.


https://www.kctv5.com/coronavirus/new-cdc-guidance-says-older-adults-s
hould-stay-at-home/article_f03ecda8-9c8d-55f9-98db-f21f3bdb3ee2.html


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Friday, March 6, 2020 10:10 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Is that with or without sales tax?

Just kidding!

And, Jack, fwiw, as much excellent work as you've done on your house, I wouldn't get your kit. Just sayin'.




That's probably a good idea.

They're going to come with used hypodermic needles since my state doesn't give away clean ones for free, so... yanno... AIDS.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, March 7, 2020 1:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Cuomo Declares State Of Emergency As 21 More Coronavirus Cases Confirmed In New York...
Across the US, there are more than 300 cases reported (though not yet 'confirmed' by the CDC) and at least half of all states have confirmed cases. On Friday, Hawaii, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Connecticut, Nebraska, Indiana, Minnesota, Pennsylvania and South Carolina all confirmed their first cases of the virus.


Case case case cluster cluster BOOM!



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Saturday, March 7, 2020 1:47 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa-coronavirus/
As of March 07, 2020 at 18:35 GMT, there have been 373 confirmed cases and 17 deaths due to coronavirus COVID-19 in the United States.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda75
94740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Total Confirmed
376


U.S. Is Lagging in Coronavirus Tests, and It's Not Even Close
Washington Post|16 minutes ago
If you look only at a list of confirmed novel coronavirus cases ... fewer residents than New Jersey, has tested nearly twice as many people. The U.K., which has far fewer cases, has tested over 20,000. This gap is particularly worrisome given evidence of community spread in a number of different states and a high death count, both of which ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/us-is-lagging-in-coronavirus-t
ests-and-its-not-even-close/2020/03/07/bfdf5326-607c-11ea-ac50-18701e14e06d_story.html



South Korea has tested 140,000 people for the coronavirus. That could explain why its death rate is just 0.6% — far lower than in China or the US.
Business Insider|2 days ago
Experts have suggested that coronavirus death rates could decrease as more mild cases are confirmed.
https://www.businessinsider.com/south-korea-coronavirus-testing-death-
rate-2020-3

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Saturday, March 7, 2020 2:23 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


There's no way I'd get tested or get a vaccine for this thing.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, March 7, 2020 3:21 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Case case case cluster cluster BOOM!

Italy coronavirus cases jump by 1,247 in a day
https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-03-07-20-intl-
hnk/h_6fcd7e82f91b2cdf48b6ae094d210d77



And it's not because they haven't been testing all along.

The China example of SARS-COV-2 having entrenched itself in a geographic area - and what might be necessary to stop it

China
Quote:

lockdown Hubei province
banning factories from opening after the Lunar New Year holiday
travel bans
people forced into isolation
self-quarantine
people are stopped and given random health checks. Restaurants are mostly closed and do takeout. Many people simply have not left their apartments for a month
in China, where no one is allowed in public spaces without surgical masks
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2020/03/06/coronavirus-impact-l
essons-from-china-and-south-korea-for-the-us/#e9eaeea64751

Chinese authorities have allegedly started forcefully taking away people suspected of having coronavirus from their homes... and taken to camps
China’s central government ordered Wuhan to round up all suspected patients and anyone they are thought to have been in close contact with in mass quarantine camps.
https://thenationonlineng.net/coronavirus-china-in-mass-arrest-of-suff
erers
/



And it looks like the shutdown involves the entire country,


which appears to have stopped the spread from satellite areas of infection:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
China total cases 80,652 new cases 100


So when they say the Chinese measures are draconian, I guess that's what they mean. The Chinese had/ have no soft spot for individuals, their goal appears to have been to stop the spread by any means necessary. And unless they're fudging the numbers, it appears to have worked.

But it's an open question if spread of the virus will resume along with Chinese manufacturing, sales, and services.




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Saturday, March 7, 2020 4:54 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN



This site
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
now says 14% of Active Cases are critical/serious, 6% of Closed cases are fatal.


DP cases have 6 deaths. 245 recovered, 32 serious/critical.

France and Germany surpassed Diamond Princess for 5th and 6th place.

US is in 10th place, with 402 cases and 15 recoveries. 19 deaths.

Canada is 25th place, with 60 cases, 8 recoveries. 0 deaths.

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Saturday, March 7, 2020 5:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I guess the questions are 1) what does it take to stop the spread of the virus, 2) is the US doing what it needs to do to stop the spread of the virus, and 3) what will be the effect of a worst-case scenario where SARS-COV-2 spreads maximally?

Originally, WHO and the CDC appear to have been following - at least in rhetoric - the ID, trace, and isolate formula for stopping a contagion. While that might work for STDS and needle-sharing diseases, where contacts are of necessity limited, it doesn't look like it would be appropriate for a highly infectious disease like COVID-19. (I liken it to approaching the measles end of infectiousness in its ability to spread, where simply going through the same airport terminal that someone with measles had passed through before can get you sick.) So I find the basic model to be unhelpful.

The other completely necessary but crippled leg in the approach in the US is the criminally incompetent testing. If your approach needs you to ID cases, then you'd better ID them. And for some reason, the medical system was paralyzed when it came to developing tests. There wasn't an actual rule that forbid anyone from doing that. There was a REQUEST - and it was a longstanding precedent - that if you did, you file an emergency use request within 15 days. Maybe people were waiting on the CDC assuming that it was all going to roll out from there smoothly and quickly. But the CDC testing was faulty and severely limited.

But the US looks OMG bad compared to other countries that test thousands and tens of thousands PER DAY. Our failure needs to be relentlessly investigated. BTW the most recent estimate I found was that the US has tested 2300 - TOTAL. Since this all began.

Finally, I assume the US will eventually have national spread, because of our bungled model, our bungled testing, and the example of Italy.

What's the worst-case scenario? SK has done the most testing of all countries and has come up with a fatality rate of 0.6% - which is still 6x more than the flu. Even that low number would overwhelm the medical system. And a medical system overwhelmed might be a medical system infected, where the personnel themselves are unable to do a normal level of work.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

What Taiwan did right:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/taiwan-reins-spread-coronavirus
-countries-stumble-200307034353325.html


xposted here: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=63484&p=4

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Sunday, March 8, 2020 1:48 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Coronavirus lingers in rooms and toilets but disinfectants kill it: Study

New research from Singapore's National Centre for Infectious Diseases and DSO National Laboratories has found that patients with the coronavirus extensively contaminate their bedrooms and bathrooms, underscoring the need to routinely clean high-touch surfaces, basins and toilet bowls.

The virus was however killed by twice-a-day cleaning of surfaces and daily cleaning of floors with a commonly used disinfectant - suggesting that current decontamination measures are sufficient as long as people adhere to them.

The research was published on Wednesday in the Journal of the American Medical Association and comes after cases in China where the pathogen spread extensively through hospitals, infecting dozens of healthcare workers and other patients. This led scientists to believe that, beyond catching the infection through coughing, environmental contamination was an important factor in the disease's transmission, but its extent was unclear.

The Singapore researchers looked at cases of three patients who were held in isolation rooms between late January and early February. They collected samples from their rooms on five days over a two-week period.

The room of one patient was sampled before routine cleaning, while the rooms of the other two patients were sampled after disinfection measures.

The patient whose room was sampled before cleaning had the mildest symptoms of the three, experiencing only a cough.

The other two had moderate symptoms: both had coughing and fever, one experienced shortness of breath and the other was coughing up mucus.

Despite this disparity, the patient whose room was sampled before cleaning contaminated 13 of 15 room sites tested, including a chair, the bed rail, a glass window, the floor and light switches. Three of the five toilet sites were also contaminated, including the sink, door handle and toilet bowl

people shedding virus in their stool??
Quote:

- more evidence that stool can be a route of transmission.

Air samples tested negative, but swabs taken from air exhaust outlets were positive - which suggests that virus-laden droplets may be carried by air flows and deposited on vents.

The two rooms that were tested after cleaning had no positive results.


The results, the authors wrote, "suggests the environment as a potential medium of transmission and supports the need for strict adherence to environmental and hand hygiene."


https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/coronavirus-lingers-in-rooms-an
d-toilets-but-disinfectants-kill-it-study


So, hubby and I got into a discussion as what constitutes "airborne" versus "droplet" transmission. When you sneeze, cough, or even talk, small droplets come out of your mouth. If they're large enough they'll fall to the floor, but if they're small enough they can stay suspended in air, slowly evaporating and getting smaller and smaller. At some point, are they too small to be effectively filtered out by N95? The presence of recoverable virus on air vents indicates that the droplets were "floating" and being carried on air currents, but their impaction (or at least the impaction of some of them) indicates enough mass/momentum to overcome airstream changes.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Sunday, March 8, 2020 8:59 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


You're not going to find a mask that's 100%, especially if you're just putting on a small one like that. There's a reason why they have biohazard suits and they aren't cheap.

If you're considering going out in public with a mask on, at least splurge a few bucks and go with a mold and lead removal mask with the proper more expensive cartridges on it.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/3M-Reusable-Sanding-Valved-Safety-Mask/100002
7149


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, March 8, 2020 12:07 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.



Quote:

Fauci: Coronavirus Spread In America 'Not Encouraging'; Says Americans Should Avoid Large Gatherings, Especially If Vulnerable
But, we knew all that..


Quote:

The director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Dr. Anthony Fauci, recommended on Sunday that elderly and vulnerable Americans avoid travel and large crowds as coronavirus gains a foothold in the United States.

In an interview with NBC's "Meet the Press," Fauci emphasized that the elderly and people with "underlying conditions" are "overwhelmingly" more likely to be hit worse by coronavirus, according to NBC News.

"If you are an elderly person with an underlying condition, if you get infected, the risk of getting into trouble is considerable. So it's our responsibility to protect the vulnerable," he said, adding "When I say protect, I mean right now. Not wait until things get worse. Say no large crowds, no long trips. And above all, don't get on a cruise ship."



Yes, but do you know what they're doing in S Korea? You can just ask for a test. Yep, don't need a doctor's order. You drive up, take your own sample in your own car (so no exposure to anyone) and get the results in a few hours. You don't have to pay anyone.

That's why S Korea shows a very low "case fatality rate" ... lots and lots (and lots and lots) of testing, which reveals the true extent of infection.

right now, according to Chris Martensen, people are having problems getting tested, despite the test kits having been made available last week (they said) which should be able to handle roughly 450,000 patients. According to the video, a guy working at a big box home improvement retailer in Washington state developed a dry hacking cough, the retailer sent him to get tested for covid19 but the DOCTOR only tested him for strep and flu- BOTH TESTS NEGATIVE- and wrote a scrip for fever reducer, giving him a 3-day pass from work. DOCTOR told patient he could only be tested if he was hospitalized.

Also, according to Martensen, Washington state is in dire need of masks for their medical personnel. They are scavening masks from contractors, vet and dental offices etc, and making their staff go in naked to treat suspect cases. Totally unprepared.

I have both "procedure" masks and a few N95 respirators, which I got to try to control my allergies when handling compost but which helped when dealing with suspect lead paint. We'll be using the "procedure" masks until the risk rises substantially (eg case detected in our or neighboring city) at that point we'll switch to N95s.

Also
Quote:

Washington State Warns Mail-In Ballot Voters Not To Lick Envelopes
and
Quote:

Fed quarantines U.S. dollars repatriated from Asia on coronavirus caution

Maybe you should handle all of those packages from Amazon carefully!

And finally ...
Quote:

Coronavirus Supply Chain Effects: What to Expect
There are literally dozens of articles about coronavirus' effect on the supply chain.

Did you know that the USA no longer makes ANY penicillin, at all? I've been thumping on the idea of self-sufficient economies for YEARS, literally, because of the effect of a natural or manmade disaster hitting a single point of failure.

Well, we have built our financial structure on very long, very fragile supply chains. If you need 30,000 parts to make a car, and 10,000 of them are hung up in China, how far do you think you're going to get? If you need masks but they're all made in China ... what then? What about if all of your pharmaceuticals are made in India, but half of the starting materials are made in China?




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Sunday, March 8, 2020 1:01 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa-coronavirus/
As of March 08, 2020 at 16:55 GMT, there have been 464 confirmed cases and 19 deaths due to coronavirus COVID-19 in the United States.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda75
94740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Total Confirmed
466


Quote:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa-coronavirus/
As of March 07, 2020
373

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#
376


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Sunday, March 8, 2020 1:27 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


for Signy and myself

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-07/coronavirus-cases-
keep-rising-la-california-what-you-need-to-know


Coronavirus cases keep rising in Los Angeles, across California: Here is what you need to know

The latest: Counties continued to report more cases Friday. Some areas are seeing spread through community contact, such as Santa Clara, San Francisco and Solano. Here are the numbers as of Friday: Seven cases have been tied to people who were once on a cruise ship where there was a coronavirus outbreak. Stanford University is going to online classes after a faculty member tested positive.

Los Angeles

The latest: L.A. County confirmed two additional cases of the new coronavirus Friday, bringing the total to 13. The new cases still don’t point to community spread in Los Angeles County, L.A. County Department of Public Health Director Barbara Ferrer said. She estimated that 50 people in the county have been tested for COVID-19 and emphasized that more tests are coming back negative than positive. The L.A. Marathon is still scheduled for Sunday.

• 8 cases involve a group of travelers who visited northern Italy, where coronavirus has cause widespread outbreaks.

• 2 are connected to close contact to a coronavirus patient.

• 2 are Los Angeles International Airport workers.

• 1 is a patient who lived in Wuhan, China.



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Sunday, March 8, 2020 4:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

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Sunday, March 8, 2020 4:35 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN



This site
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
now says 14% of Active Cases are critical/serious, 6% of Closed cases are fatal.


DP cases have 7 deaths (back up to 7, but # of cases and serious/critical ar unchanged from yesterday - will this 7th become undead as well?). 245 recovered, 32 serious/critical.

Spain poised to surpass Diamond Princess for 7th place.

US is in 10th place, with 484 cases and 15 recoveries. 19 deaths.

Canada is tied for 24th place, with 64 cases, 8 recoveries. 0 deaths.

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Sunday, March 8, 2020 5:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


edited from the original

Using hand sanitizer
It works. Use it often. Make sure it’s alcohol-based. at least 60% There are some “natural” products designed to be less drying to your hands. These do not work.

Washing hands
This is always important, but especially now. Wash your hands for 20 seconds, regularly. Note that soap works ideally in combination with scrubbing and heat, but cold water works far better than nothing. You do not need antibacterial soap; the coronavirus is a virus, not a bacterium. Antibacterial soap needs 6 minutes to do its job anyway. Nobody lets it sit on their hands for that long. In addition, the active ingredient has been liked to heart failure. imo nobody needs antibacterial soap - ever.

Cleaning hand towels
Wash them often, too. Or use paper towels.

Shaking hands
don't

Touching your face
Avoiding touching your face is a nice idea and would be very effective, but no one is going to stop touching their face. Use medical masks when out and about to remind yourself.

Using bathrooms
The dirtiest things you'll touch are the handles - toilet handles, faucet handles, paper towel dispenser handles, and door handles. I wash the paper towel dispenser handles when I wash my hands, and use paper towels to touch everything else afterwards. If the toilet had a lid, put the lid down before you flush. It'll avoid letting the flushing aerosol get all over the room.

Disinfecting common surfaces
The crux of all the focus on hand-washing is that you’re unlikely to get the virus from someone coughing or sneezing directly into your face. You are much more likely to catch the virus by touching something that someone else touched after coughing into their hand. This can partly be prevented by disinfecting surfaces. Not touching your face when you're out and about (use a mask) getting hands contaminated, then washing or sanitizing hands immediately on getting home works just as well, if you decontaminate things you routinely touch as well like your wallet and phone.

The most commonly touched surfaces in homes and offices, especially shared spaces, are priority. Countertops, remote controls, and refrigerator handles should be disinfected regularly. That said, it’s very possible to become compulsive about this in ways that have their own risks. Any given surface is very unlikely to harbor a dangerous virus, so it’s possible to overdo this and waste a lot of time, resources, and concern. But if you’re the sort to typically only clean things that look visibly dirty, do consider the invisible.

Cleaning phones
This one warrants its own special note because phone screens may be the surface we touch the most. Other, similar coronaviruses are known to live on glass for up to four days. If you’ve been touching your phone with viral hands, then you do a beautiful job washing those hands, and then you touch your phone again, you may have just recontaminated yourself. I’m not suggesting constantly cleaning your phone.

Wearing masks
Use procedure masks when out and about to remind yourself not to touch your face; or if you're ill.

Stockpiling prescription medications
Most U.S. prescription medications are made in China, whose own outbreak has raised concerns about medication supply chains. As of now, supplies have not been disrupted, and China is reporting declines in the spread of the virus. As with food, though, anyone who has a vital prescription and lives in a place where access would be affected by the single shutdown of a local pharmacy or a public-transit system, for example, should always have a small supply for emergencies. Health-care providers should help ensure this.

Staying home
This is an extremely imperfect directive, as so many people’s jobs and other obligations make it impossible. But no single recommendation is perfect or universally applicable. And Americans have proved, flu season after flu season, that many workplaces are not accommodating enough of staying home. If workplaces are not accommodating, business may suffer even more in the long run, if more shutdown measures are taken. CDC advice is for those >60 or otherwise vulnerable to stay home.

Seeking medical care
This may be the most crucial question: When do mild symptoms warrant attention? Most people are not accustomed to seeking care or testing when they have a mild cough or runny nose. My hope is that, in the coming days and weeks, local and federal officials share clear guidelines for exactly how and when to seek medical attention early in the disease’s course. China’s containment measures depended on early detection that isolated people at the beginning of their infectious stage. Then again, we can’t have everyone with a cough and sniffles rushing to doctors’ offices.
South Korea, which has now identified some 5,000 cases, is pioneering drive-through screening clinics. The idea seems smart: There are no doorknobs to touch, no crowded waiting rooms with magazines that have been coughed on for months. Maybe most important, there is no paperwork to fill out and no cost. If an outbreak hits a major city, clinics and hospitals will likely be overrun with people who have cold and flu symptoms. Some of those people will need reassurance that they can go home and will be fine; others will need admission to a hospital; others may need an intermediate level of care, monitoring, and quarantine.

Being conscientious
No matter your position, there are people who stand to lose much more than you do if they get sick. No matter how worried you are, there are people who are more worried. Look out for them, and help make sure everyone takes these basic measures and doesn’t panic. Societies break down when people fear one another as simply bipedal distributors of infectious agents. See people as allies in this unique moment of uncertainty.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/coronavirus-what-yo
u-can-do-help-slow-outbreak/607369
/

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Sunday, March 8, 2020 6:24 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The upshot - Signy's procedure - wear a procedure mask when out and about to remind you to not touch your face. Remove your mask then IMMEDIATELY sanitize or wash your hands when you get home. That way, you won't touch your face with potentially infectious hands.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/08/health/coronavirus-touching-your-fa
ce-trnd/index.html


One big coronavirus challenge is how to stop touching your face

It took a coronavirus outbreak to remind us that we touch our faces way too many times. And cutting down on that will help stop the spread of the virus, health officials say.

In 2015, a Sydney university observed medical students on video and recorded how many times they touched their faces. Each of the 26 future doctors under observation touched their faces an average 23 times per hour.

Nearly half of those times -- 44% -- involved contact with their eyes, nose or mouth.

Not touching your face is harder than it sounds

As we fight the coronavirus outbreak, which has killed 19 people in the US and more than 3,500 worldwide, officials are emphasizing all it takes is one touch for microbes on your fingers to slip into your body through your nostril, eyes or mouth.

"Viruses that affect the respiratory system enter the body through mucosal membranes which are found in the nose, oral cavity and lips. With poor hand hygiene, it's easy to acquire a viral infection this way," says Dr. Dawn Mueni Becker, an infectious disease specialist in Gainesville, Florida.

But we've been touching our faces all our lives, and stopping that habit is easier said than done.

On Friday, a video widely shared on social media showed a California health official touching her face during a news conference advising people not to do that as the coronavirus outbreak spreads.

"Start working on not touching your face, because one main way viruses spread is when you touch your own mouth, nose or eyes," she says. Then she licks her finger to flip to the next page of her remarks -- seemingly unaware she was not following her own advice.

Even one notorious self-proclaimed germaphobe can't help himself. "I haven't touched my face in weeks -- in weeks. I miss it," President Donald Trump said jokingly last week. He was photographed touching his face Monday.

Touching your face is at times tied to stress

Like most behaviors, constant face touching starts at a young age and becomes a habit over time. People touch their face for various reasons. One 2014 federal government study suggested it helps reduce stress and discomfort. "Spontaneous facial self-touch gestures are performed manifold every day by every human being, primarily in stressful situations," the study says. "These movements are not usually designed to communicate and are frequently accomplished with little or no awareness."

Touching your face is so common, there's a website that uses your webcam to notify you when you touch your face and keeps track of how many times you do it.

There are safe ways to touch your face

If you can't stop yourself, it's not the end of the world, Becker says. There are ways to lower your chances of infections from face touching. "Being conscious or aware of this habit is helpful when it comes to avoiding touching the face," Becker says. "Identifying triggers such as runny nose or urge to sneeze is important. In this case, having tissue close by is helpful -- it's better to use that to touch your face than bare hands."

The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends washing your hands with soap and water for at least 20 seconds. If water is not available, you can use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol.

Soap and water are especially preferred if hands are visibly dirty, the CDC says, and especially after using the bathroom, blowing your nose, coughing or sneezing.

Think of all the germy things people touch all day. Cellphones, car keys, doors and elevators -- even wads of cash that you have no idea the places they've been. Now imagine transferring all the bacteria, viruses and allergens from those items into your body through the mucous membranes in your nose, mouth and eyes. Or through a cut in your face or neck that you have no idea exists.

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Monday, March 9, 2020 1:43 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


lol

If that's what living is going to be like in the future just kill me now.

Never going to do any of that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, March 9, 2020 1:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
OMG!!! I have to wash my hands!!!!



fixed it for you.




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Monday, March 9, 2020 1:51 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


That's OK. No one's telling you to, or even asking you to, Jack.

But some people who are not you might be interested.

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Monday, March 9, 2020 11:16 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
OMG!!! I have to wash my hands!!!!



fixed it for you.




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!




lol no.

That was 4 pages on ANSI paper in 12pt font of New Rules you're going to have to live by if you don't want cooties.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, March 9, 2020 11:16 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Gas prices by me were under $2 last night for the first time in over two years.

COVID is awesome.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, March 9, 2020 12:09 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Monday, March 9, 2020 2:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


A VERY good reason not to attend church!

Quote:

DC Priest Who Shook 500 Hands At Communion Has Coronavirus

DC priest who shook the hands of 500 worshippers during communion has announced he’s contracted coronavirus.

“BREAKING: A D.C. priest has Coronavirus. He offered communion and shook hands with more than 500 worshippers last week and on February 24th,” tweeted ABC7’s Sam Sweeney.

“All worshippers who visited the Christ Church in Georgetown must self-quarantine. Church is cancelled for the first time since the 1800’s.”

The hand shaking took place despite many other Catholic churches changing their worshipping practices in an effort to stop the spread of the virus.



Well, this church, near DC, is not a poor black church for peons.




It looks like the kind of church that many DC staffers and upper-ups might attend. If they weren't paying attention to coronavirus (and they probaby weren't, seeing as they shook hands with someone who shook hands with 500 of their closest friends) they sure are now!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Monday, March 9, 2020 2:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Another point I heard .... the virus is not "adapted" to humans. That is, a virus that is adapted to its host doesn't cause extreme symptoms. It doesn't cause it's host's cells to explode because that actually slows down the virus-making process. There is a possibility that the virus, which mutates every two days, will mutate itself into a less-virulent form, kind of like the Mexican swine flu which caused such a panic but then ... disappeared.

https://www.rt.com/news/482612-coronavirus-specialists-odds-catching-s
urviving
/

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Monday, March 9, 2020 4:46 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


That'll be nice.

I'm probably more bored hearing about this than I was the Russiagate hoax conspiracy theory.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, March 9, 2020 6:16 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hey Signy

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-09/l-a-county-up-to-1
6-coronavirus-cases-with-1-of-unknown-origin-heres-the-latest


L.A. County has first coronavirus case from community spread. Here’s the latest


By Colleen ShalbyStaff Writer
March 9, 2020
1:23 PM

Los Angeles County announced its first coronavirus case of community spread, with the total number of cases rising by two to a total of 16.

L.A. County Public Health Department Director Dr. Barbara Ferrer said that one of the two new cases is that of an individual who had a known travel history to Japan. The source of exposure of the second individual is currently unknown.

“This is our first case of community transmission in L.A. County and we will continue to see more cases of COVID-19,” Ferrer said. “We continue to urge everyone to do their part: Stay home if you are sick and keep your children home if they are sick; plan for the possibility of school and business closures.”

Both individuals are in isolation, and all close contacts are or will be quarantined for 14 days.

Ferrer said that anyone who has spent 10 minutes with an individual or came within 6 feet would be considered a close contact. Ferrer said that there has been a total of 16 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in L.A. County.

One individual has fully recovered, and the remaining 15 are isolated. Ferrer did not identify the specific location of any individual, but said that if a known public exposure occurs, residents would learn more information.

Ferrer estimated that 80 to 100 individuals have been tested for the virus at the county’s public health lab, but noted that the lab’s testing capacity is limited.

“We cannot, in L.A. County, test 1,000 people in a day,” she said. Ferrer recommended social distancing, and that individuals who are sick stay home in order to protect others who may be most vulnerable to the virus.

“We recognize that the most important thing we can do right now is to stay home when we’re sick – no matter how mild our symptoms are.” No school closure has been recommended in the county -– a decision she said that would be based on exposure.

Here is the latest breakdown of COVID-19 cases

• 8 involve a group of travelers who visited northern Italy, where the coronavirus has been widespread.

• 2 are connected to close contact to a coronavirus patient.

• 2 are Los Angeles International Airport workers.

• 1 is a person who traveled from Japan.

• 1 lived in Wuhan, China.

• 1 came from from a conference in Washington state.

• 1 case is of unknown origin.

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Monday, March 9, 2020 6:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Coronavirus Can Stay In Air For 30 Minutes, Travel Twice 'Safe Distance' According To Study
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/coronavirus-can-stay-air-30-minutes-t
ravel-twice-safe-distance-according-study


Aerosolized coronavirus can hang in the air for at least 30 minutes and travel up to 14 feet - approximately twice the "safe distance" recommended by health officials, according to SCMP.

The study, conducted by a team of Chinese government epidemiologists from Hunan province, also found that the virus can survive for days on a surface where respiratory droplets land.

The length of time it lasts on the surface depends on factors such as temperature and the type of surface, for example at around 37C (98F), it can survive for two to three days on glass, fabric, metal, plastic or paper.

These findings, from a group of official researchers from Hunan province investigating a cluster case, challenge the advice from health authorities around the world that people should remain apart at a “safe distance” of one to two metres (three to six and a half feet). -SCMP


The researchers warned that the virus could survive over five days in human feces or bodily fluids, and that it could remain floating in the air after a carrier had left a public bus.



"It can be confirmed that in a closed environment with air-conditioning, the transmission distance of the new coronavirus will exceed the commonly recognised safe distance," the researchers wrote in their paper, published in peer-reviewed journal, Practical Preventive Medicine.

"Our advice is to wear a face mask all the way [through the bus ride]," the researchers recommended.

They said the study proves the importance of washing hands and wearing face masks in public places because the virus can linger in the air attached to fine droplet particles.
...
Their work was based on a local outbreak case on January 22 during the peak Lunar New Year travel season. A passenger, known as “A”, boarded a fully booked long-distance coach and settled down on the second row from the back.

The passenger already felt sick at that point but it was before China had declared the coronavirus outbreak a national crisis, so “A” did not wear a mask, nor did most of the other passengers or the driver on the 48-seat bus. -SCMP


Because China requires closed circuit television cameras to record all long-distance us rides, researchers were able to reconstruct the spread of the virus on the bus, which had no open windows.

Lead author Hu Shixiong said that the camera footage revealed patient "A" did not interact with anyone throughout the four-hour ride, yet the virus infected seven other passengers by the time the bus stopped at the next city. Infected passengers included not only those sitting relatively close to "patient zero," but people six rows away - or 4.5 meters (14.76 feet).

All seven tested positive, including one passenger who displayed no symptoms. Then, 30 minutes later, another group of passengers got on the bus - one of whom was sitting in the front seat when they also became infected. Patient "A" meanwhile, got on another minibus and infected two other passengers.




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Monday, March 9, 2020 7:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


HA!

New York Is Producing Its Own Hand Sanitizer To Combat Price Gouging

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Monday, March 9, 2020 8:09 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Looking at how the national numbers are going up, I'd say that there's a rate-limiting step in the reporting. In other words, there's something that can go only so fast, and no faster, and so the numbers are only going up so fast.

I'd say that rate-limiting step is testing, and that there are clusters (we're beyond cases) that are saturating out the testing capacity of their respective areas. I think that ACTUAL cases are going up far faster.

There's the Chinese study that indicates fairly robust aerosol transmission.

And then there's the first case of community spread in LA County. Considering how mobile we all are, I'm not sure if neighborhood has much meaning.

Given that ... I'll be thinking about my approach to shopping. It's not yet time to hunker down, but I need to think about where I'll draw the line to upping my precautions, and where I'll draw the line to isolating myself.

This requires some thinking.

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Monday, March 9, 2020 8:45 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Looking at how the national numbers are going up, I'd say that there's a rate-limiting step in the reporting. In other words, there's something that can go only so fast, and no faster, and so the numbers are only going up so fast.

I'd say that rate-limiting step is testing, and that there are clusters (we're beyond cases) that are saturating out the testing capacity of their respective areas. I think that ACTUAL cases are going up far faster.

There's the Chinese study that indicates fairly robust aerosol transmission.

And then there's the first case of community spread in LA County. Considering how mobile we all are, I'm not sure if neighborhood has much meaning.

Given that ... I'll be thinking about my approach to shopping. It's not yet time to hunker down, but I need to think about where I'll draw the line to upping my precautions, and where I'll draw the line to isolating myself.

This requires some thinking.

Is LA having any discussion about rampant homelessness?

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Monday, March 9, 2020 8:48 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Coronavirus Can Stay In Air For 30 Minutes, Travel Twice 'Safe Distance' According To Study
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/coronavirus-can-stay-air-30-minutes-t
ravel-twice-safe-distance-according-study


Aerosolized coronavirus can hang in the air for at least 30 minutes and travel up to 14 feet - approximately twice the "safe distance" recommended by health officials, according to SCMP.

The study, conducted by a team of Chinese government epidemiologists from Hunan province, also found that the virus can survive for days on a surface where respiratory droplets land.

The length of time it lasts on the surface depends on factors such as temperature and the type of surface, for example at around 37C (98F), it can survive for two to three days on glass, fabric, metal, plastic or paper.

These findings, from a group of official researchers from Hunan province investigating a cluster case, challenge the advice from health authorities around the world that people should remain apart at a “safe distance” of one to two metres (three to six and a half feet). -SCMP


The researchers warned that the virus could survive over five days in human feces or bodily fluids, and that it could remain floating in the air after a carrier had left a public bus.



"It can be confirmed that in a closed environment with air-conditioning, the transmission distance of the new coronavirus will exceed the commonly recognised safe distance," the researchers wrote in their paper, published in peer-reviewed journal, Practical Preventive Medicine.

"Our advice is to wear a face mask all the way [through the bus ride]," the researchers recommended.

They said the study proves the importance of washing hands and wearing face masks in public places because the virus can linger in the air attached to fine droplet particles.
...
Their work was based on a local outbreak case on January 22 during the peak Lunar New Year travel season. A passenger, known as “A”, boarded a fully booked long-distance coach and settled down on the second row from the back.

The passenger already felt sick at that point but it was before China had declared the coronavirus outbreak a national crisis, so “A” did not wear a mask, nor did most of the other passengers or the driver on the 48-seat bus. -SCMP


Because China requires closed circuit television cameras to record all long-distance us rides, researchers were able to reconstruct the spread of the virus on the bus, which had no open windows.

Lead author Hu Shixiong said that the camera footage revealed patient "A" did not interact with anyone throughout the four-hour ride, yet the virus infected seven other passengers by the time the bus stopped at the next city. Infected passengers included not only those sitting relatively close to "patient zero," but people six rows away - or 4.5 meters (14.76 feet).

All seven tested positive, including one passenger who displayed no symptoms. Then, 30 minutes later, another group of passengers got on the bus - one of whom was sitting in the front seat when they also became infected. Patient "A" meanwhile, got on another minibus and infected two other passengers.

The buss transmission could be from grabbing the headrests/handbars while entering/exiting, and cornering while moving. That would explain a lot of that diagram.

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