Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:
The Mueller hearing was a debacle for Democrats. The new impeachment rules show that they’ve learned the lesson that it is very easy to sabotage an ordinary congressional hearing.

In the typical hearing, members of Congress each spend five minutes — and only five minutes — questioning a witness or panel of witnesses. Question time ordinarily alternates between Democrats and Republicans.

This process generates a number of easily foreseeable problems. It is inevitable that some members will be more effective questioners than others, but the five-minute rule allows witnesses to filibuster particularly effective questioners until that member’s time runs out. The five-minute rule also means that members do not have enough time to conduct deep, probing inquiries or to ask a long series of follow-up questions that could uncover answers a witness would rather keep hidden.

The fact that question time typically alternates between partisans, moreover, means that the minority can disrupt an effective line of questioning by shifting the topic to irrelevant accusations or outright conspiracy theories. A July hearing featuring former Special Counsel Robert Mueller was a disaster for Democrats for many reasons, but one reason was that it is hard to keep focus on a serious line of inquiry when that inquiry is constantly being interrupted by members ranting about Russian false flags or submitting pieces they wrote for Fox News host Sean Hannity’s website into the record.

More at "The most important part of the Democrats’ impeachment resolution"
www.vox.com/2019/10/31/20941811/most-important-democrats-impeachment-r
esolution


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:
Ohio Sen. Rob Portman tested a Republican response to impeachment. “I thought it was inappropriate for the president to ask a foreign government to investigate a political opponent,” he said. “I also do not think it’s an impeachable offense.”

Portman's answer conspicuously, even deceptively, ignores the issue at hand. A decision about impeachment not only involves the response to a specific act — say, a third-rate burglary. It necessarily entails a judgment about the fitness for high office of the actor. In Trump’s case, the problem is not a slimy phone call in a lifetime of slimy phone calls. The problem is a president who puts his personal interests ahead of U.S. national security and who still finds nothing wrong with his “perfect” conversation. The corrupt act reveals a corrupt man, unable to make the most rudimentary judgments about the nation’s good.

If the best of the Republican Party is willing to make shallow, shoddy excuses for an unfit president, then the path ahead is disturbingly clear. The details of the case for impeachment will not matter. Fearing the revolt of their base — and the retribution of an emotionally unstable president — Senate Republicans (with one admirable exception, Utah’s Mitt Romney) have already chosen their final position: acquittal. And whatever is revealed in the course of the investigation — no matter how vomitous — will fall just short of an impeachable offense. The goal posts will move and move until they are in the next county.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But Trump was elected President, not Pence. There will be life after Trump, but if you kick over the Constitution in your haste to get rid of him and allow the deep state to drive him from office then where will you be then?

It's like when Republicans were cheering on GWB's "unitary executive" and FREM warned people that the next President would be a democrat, and that all of the violations that Republicans were cheering on would come back to bite the, Be careful what you wish for.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

---

Quote:

---

Trump-Ukraine Whistleblower Suddenly Won't Testify; Lawyers Break Off Negotiations Amid New Revelations

A CIA officer who filed a second-hand whistleblower complaint against President Trump has gotten cold feet about testifying after revelations emerged that he worked with Joe Biden, former CIA Director John Brennan, and a DNC operative who sought dirt on President Trump from officials in Ukraine's former government.

According to the Washington Examiner, discussions with the whistleblower - revealed by RealClearInvestigations as 33-year-old Eric Ciaramella have been halted, "and there is no discussion of testimony from a second whistleblower, who supported the first's claims."

Ciaramella complained that President Trump abused his office when he asked Ukraine to investigate corruption allegations against Joe Biden and his son Hunter, as well as claims related to pro-Clinton election interference and DNC hacking in 2016.

On Thursday, a top National Security Council official who was present on a July 25 phone call between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelensky testified that he saw nothing illegal about the conversation.

"I want to be clear, I was not concerned that anything illegal was discussed," said Tim Morrison, former NSC Senior Director for European Affairs who was on the July 25 call between the two leaders.

And now, the partisan whistleblowers have cold feet;

"There is no indication that either of the original whistleblowers will be called to testify or appear before the Senate or House Intelligence committees. There is no further discussion ongoing between the legal team and the committees," said the Examiner's source.

The whistleblower is a career CIA officer with expertise in Ukraine policy who served on the White House National Security Council during the Obama administration, when 2020 Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden was "point man" for Ukraine, and during the early months of the Trump administration. -Washington Examiner

In other words, House Democrats are about to impeach President Trump over a second-hand whistleblower complaint by a partisan CIA officer, and neither he nor his source will actually testify about it (for now...).

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Your Impeachment Clock has only been going for 408 days.
It's been so exciting.

---

Thanks. The countdown clock is now at 220 days 11 hours.

---

Let's see, I started this thread Feb. 14th 2017. It's now Nov. 2019. So if the impeachment hearings start this month as Pelosi says, Where does that put the clock at JSF?



T

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno, this whole hysteria reminds me of the RUSSIA!!RUSSIA!! hoax. But more than that, it reminds me of the Kavanaugh hearings ... remember them ? ... where one delusional "witness" after another claimed to have heard ... or possibly recalled... or maybe someone said that someone said... and then vomitted a bunch of bias and spew.

Anyone who takes this seriously should have their head examined. Etc. Etc.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 1KIKI:


A billion flies eat shit.

Is it tasty, THUGGER?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JO753:
Stratejy 1:

Drag it out. Keep it going until election day! (longer, if he winz agen)

Stratejy 2:

BIG, LOUD & FAST! Grab hedlinez with trukloadz uv damming facts and testimonyz. Make it advantajous for the Senate GoPs to cut a deal to let Pence take over (even tho he iz a co-conspirator).

I like 2.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com .

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JO753:

Stratejy 1:

Drag it out. Keep it going until election day! (longer, if he winz agen)

Stratejy 2:

BIG, LOUD & FAST! Grab hedlinez with trukloadz uv damming facts and testimonyz. Make it advantajous for the Senate GoPs to cut a deal to let Pence take over (even tho he iz a co-conspirator).

I like 2.

---

Kellyanne Conway refused to say the president did not offer the leader of Ukraine a quid pro quo involving military aid and the investigation of his political rivals.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/quid-pro-quo-yes-or-no-trump-a
llies-face-ukraine-question/ar-AAJMKnT?ocid=spartandhp

T

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JO753:
Stratejy 1:

Drag it out. Keep it going until election day! (longer, if he winz agen)

Stratejy 2:

BIG, LOUD & FAST! Grab hedlinez with trukloadz uv damming facts and testimonyz. Make it advantajous for the Senate GoPs to cut a deal to let Pence take over (even tho he iz a co-conspirator).

I like 2.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com .

---

Yeah... you're not going to get 2.

Nancy Pelosi didn't even want to do 1, but she was forced to by the Leftist extremists and by Trump himself and his constant goading.

Trump has gotten exactly what he wanted here every step of the way.

He was practically begging for Impeachment by continually tweeting that the only way the Democrats win in 2020 is if he is removed from office.

Then he got the GOP to force Pelosi to have an actual formal vote on impeachment instead of dragging all of this out behind the scenes. A vote, I might add, that was directly down partisan lines with two Democrats voting against impeachment.

Those two Democrats will be re-elected in 2020. Many others will not be when this backfires spectacularly. This is a huge embarassment to the Democrats already, even though hard core partisans on the left might not realize it yet.

It will get worse though. Especially when people start to realize that the only people in the country that were on board with this were the ones screaming about Trump for the last three years that were never going to vote for him anyways. Independents will break for Trump in 2020 overall, and just like our two Democrat Representatives who broke for Trump, you're going to see some Democrat voters doing the same. Especially those who are Union members.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You ever notice that when you look at a map of the country and the breakdown of which states vote which way, the blue marks all of the states that have failed economically?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You ever notice that when you look at a map of the country and the breakdown of which states vote which way, the blue marks all of the states that have failed economically?


Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

You ever notice that when you look at a map of the country and the breakdown of which states vote which way, the blue marks all of the states that have failed economically?

---

Did you ever notice that dumb who voted for Trump keep posting the exact same comments, again and again? Did you ever notice that economically weak states such as N. & S. Dakota, W. Virginia, Mississippi, Alabama, Indiana voted for Trump? Were those states expecting to rise in the economic ranking? If they were, they should have noticed it did not happen.

---

Bingo...

T

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Somebody got fired, another somebody quit. Now they're saying shitty things about the old boss.

Haven't seen this play out into nothing 100 times before in the last 3 years.

No sir.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Despite his constant public derision of the mainstream media, President Trump worries over the daily coverage of the Ukraine scandal and impeachment inquiry.

“We’re getting fucking killed,” a Republican close to the White House told Politico, quoting Trump’s main concern. “He does make that comment literally every day.”

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/11/trump-on-impeachment-coverage-w
ere-getting-killed.html

---

Fucking outstanding second. That said, at least Trump knows it. The trolls here don't seem to have a clue. It can be chalked up to there being a sucker born every minute.

T

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THG:

Fucking outstanding second. That said, at least Trump knows it. The trolls here don't seem to have a clue. It can be chalked up to there being a sucker born every minute.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THG:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Despite his constant public derision of the mainstream media, President Trump worries over the daily coverage of the Ukraine scandal and impeachment inquiry.

“We’re getting fucking killed,” a Republican close to the White House told Politico, quoting Trump’s main concern. “He does make that comment literally every day.”

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/11/trump-on-impeachment-coverage-w
ere-getting-killed.html

---

Fucking outstanding second. That said, at least Trump knows it. The trolls here don't seem to have a clue. It can be chalked up to there being a sucker born every minute.

T

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JO753:
In a smarter version uv reality, the Demz reinstated the fairness doctrin sum time in the aughts, having lerned their lesson from loozing in 2000.

Notis how nun uv them are saying anything about it here, even tho they got smakt in the fase twise?

We are in a really dum univers! So, I am not dowting your prediction, 6.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com .

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I don't see how the Fairness Doctrine would do what you want it to do. All of the Legacy Media shills for the Democrats 24/7 now anyway. Fox News doesn't count, because it could be argued both that they're anti-Trump, and for certain any drones that sit and watch it every day are hard core Republicans that would never vote the other way to save their life anyhow.

Other than them, pretty much everybody is Democrat all day long.

Could you explain to me how you think the Fairness Doctrine would help the Democrats chances in 2020 in the slightest? I don't think that they could possibly put any more pro Democrat stuff out there.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:Rather than this impeachment sucking up all the media time, the media should be reporting 10 times a day until the accords expire that Trump won't negotiate and renew nuclear treaties. He is always claiming he is the best negotiator, but he is actually doing nothing, which should be an impeachable offense:

Already this year, the U.S. has withdrawn from the 1987 Intermediate Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty, which obliged the U.S. and the Soviet Union to destroy all of their ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with flight ranges between 500 and 5,500 kilometers. Whereas previous administrations have largely sought to sustain arms control agreements, Trump has shown no affinity for international pacts. Having abandoned the Paris Agreement on climate change, the Iran nuclear agreement and the INF treaty, his string of broken legacy accords now appears likely to stretch further.

"Open Skies, New START Pacts With Russia Face Bleak Outlook"
www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776193481/open-skies-new-start-pacts-with-russi
a-face-bleak-outlook

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Where is Kiki's outrage?!?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I don't see how the Fairness Doctrine would do what you want it to do. All of the Legacy Media shills for the Democrats 24/7 now anyway. Fox News doesn't count, because it could be argued both that they're anti-Trump, and for certain any drones that sit and watch it every day are hard core Republicans that would never vote the other way to save their life anyhow.

Other than them, pretty much everybody is Democrat all day long.

Could you explain to me how you think the Fairness Doctrine would help the Democrats chances in 2020 in the slightest? I don't think that they could possibly put any more pro Democrat stuff out there.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Rather than this impeachment sucking up all the media time, the media should be reporting 10 times a day until the accords expire that Trump won't negotiate and renew nuclear treaties. He is always claiming he is the best negotiator, but he is actually doing nothing, which should be an impeachable offense:

Already this year, the U.S. has withdrawn from the 1987 Intermediate Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty, which obliged the U.S. and the Soviet Union to destroy all of their ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with flight ranges between 500 and 5,500 kilometers. Whereas previous administrations have largely sought to sustain arms control agreements, Trump has shown no affinity for international pacts. Having abandoned the Paris Agreement on climate change, the Iran nuclear agreement and the INF treaty, his string of broken legacy accords now appears likely to stretch further.

"Open Skies, New START Pacts With Russia Face Bleak Outlook"
www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776193481/open-skies-new-start-pacts-with-russi
a-face-bleak-outlook

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I don't see how the Fairness Doctrine would do what you want it to do. All of the Legacy Media shills for the Democrats 24/7 now anyway. Fox News doesn't count, because it could be argued both that they're anti-Trump, and for certain any drones that sit and watch it every day are hard core Republicans that would never vote the other way to save their life anyhow.

Other than them, pretty much everybody is Democrat all day long.

Could you explain to me how you think the Fairness Doctrine would help the Democrats chances in 2020 in the slightest? I don't think that they could possibly put any more pro Democrat stuff out there.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Rather than this impeachment sucking up all the media time, the media should be reporting 10 times a day until the accords expire that Trump won't negotiate and renew nuclear treaties. He is always claiming he is the best negotiator, but he is actually doing nothing, which should be an impeachable offense:

Already this year, the U.S. has withdrawn from the 1987 Intermediate Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty, which obliged the U.S. and the Soviet Union to destroy all of their ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with flight ranges between 500 and 5,500 kilometers. Whereas previous administrations have largely sought to sustain arms control agreements, Trump has shown no affinity for international pacts. Having abandoned the Paris Agreement on climate change, the Iran nuclear agreement and the INF treaty, his string of broken legacy accords now appears likely to stretch further.

"Open Skies, New START Pacts With Russia Face Bleak Outlook"
www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776193481/open-skies-new-start-pacts-with-russi
a-face-bleak-outlook

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

---

I agree.

I also see that you don't disagree with my assessment of the Fairness Doctrine, or lack thereof either.

Democrats are on their way to losing even bigger this time, and it's because they're not learning from lessons of the past and focusing on all of the wrong things.

There's still time left. Build a platform.



But don't do Warren's M4A one, I guess. Everybody on the left and the right has slammed her for that and she's losing against Biden in every poll in the aggregate now.

Also, to note, the NYT just put out an article showing that she loses every battle ground state to Trump except for one. In the same poll, Bernie loses the battleground states to Trump as well. Laughably, they have Biden winning most of them, but that would change quickly when Trump destroys Biden on the debate stage.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:Rather than this impeachment sucking up all the media time, the media should be reporting 10 times a day until the accords expire that Trump won't negotiate and renew nuclear treaties. He is always claiming he is the best negotiator, but he is actually doing nothing, which should be an impeachable offense:

Already this year, the U.S. has withdrawn from the 1987 Intermediate Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty, which obliged the U.S. and the Soviet Union to destroy all of their ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with flight ranges between 500 and 5,500 kilometers. Whereas previous administrations have largely sought to sustain arms control agreements, Trump has shown no affinity for international pacts. Having abandoned the Paris Agreement on climate change, the Iran nuclear agreement and the INF treaty, his string of broken legacy accords now appears likely to stretch further.

"Open Skies, New START Pacts With Russia Face Bleak Outlook"
www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776193481/open-skies-new-start-pacts-with-russi
a-face-bleak-outlook

---

Where is Kiki's outrage?!?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:
Rather than this impeachment sucking up all the media time, the media should be reporting 10 times a day until the accords expire that Trump won't negotiate and renew nuclear treaties. He is always claiming he is the best negotiator, but he is actually doing nothing, which should be an impeachable offense:

Already this year, the U.S. has withdrawn from the 1987 Intermediate Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty, which obliged the U.S. and the Soviet Union to destroy all of their ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with flight ranges between 500 and 5,500 kilometers. Whereas previous administrations have largely sought to sustain arms control agreements, Trump has shown no affinity for international pacts. Having abandoned the Paris Agreement on climate change, the Iran nuclear agreement and the INF treaty, his string of broken legacy accords now appears likely to stretch further.

"Open Skies, New START Pacts With Russia Face Bleak Outlook"
www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776193481/open-skies-new-start-pacts-with-russi
a-face-bleak-outlook

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Where is Kiki's outrage?!?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Bumpity.......head of the class
sgg

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THG:
]Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C. comes from a military state. It's where I did my basic training. If he lose the military's confidence he'll start singing a new tune a moment later.

T

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by second:
Rather than this impeachment sucking up all the media time, the media should be reporting 10 times a day until the accords expire that Trump won't negotiate and renew nuclear treaties. He is always claiming he is the best negotiator, but he is actually doing nothing, which should be an impeachable offense:

Already this year, the U.S. has withdrawn from the 1987 Intermediate Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty, which obliged the U.S. and the Soviet Union to destroy all of their ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with flight ranges between 500 and 5,500 kilometers. Whereas previous administrations have largely sought to sustain arms control agreements, Trump has shown no affinity for international pacts. Having abandoned the Paris Agreement on climate change, the Iran nuclear agreement and the INF treaty, his string of broken legacy accords now appears likely to stretch further.

"Open Skies, New START Pacts With Russia Face Bleak Outlook"
www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776193481/open-skies-new-start-pacts-with-russi
a-face-bleak-outlook

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Where is Kiki's outrage?!?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Bumpity.......head of the class
sgg

---

By all means - dogpile on the stupid.

Why should I be OUTRAGED ?

This is one of two criteria I'll use to evaluable candidates for my next VOTE. No outrage required.

A billion flies eat shit.

And here are three of them.

---

Quote:

---

people familiar with the matter said.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

---

people familiar with the matter said.

---

Do Right, Be Right. :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
blah blah blah

---