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new deadly human-to-human-transmissible coronavirus emerges out of China

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Thursday, September 5, 2024 19:55
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Tuesday, January 21, 2020 12:15 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


new deadly human-to-human-transmissible coronavirus emerges out of China


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/20/world/asia/coronavirus-china-sympto
ms.html
China Confirms New Coronavirus Spreads From Humans to Humans

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/21/china-coronavirus-human-to-human-trans
mission-confirmed.html
China confirms coronavirus can pass person-to-person as fourth death reported
The Geneva-based U.N. agency convened an emergency committee for Wednesday to assess whether the outbreak constitutes an international health emergency and what measures should be taken to manage it.
So far, the WHO has not recommended trade or travel restrictions, but a panel of independent experts could do so or make other recommendations to limit spread.

https://nypost.com/2020/01/20/british-tourist-feared-to-be-victim-of-d
eadly-new-chinese-coronavirus/
British tourist feared to be victim of deadly new Chinese coronavirus

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/01/wuhan-outbreak-triples-as-new-
coronavirus-found-to-spread-human-to-human/
Outbreak of new virus explodes in China; human-to-human spread confirmed
Researchers raced to identify the virus behind the outbreak, confirming quickly that the culprit is a never-before-seen coronavirus—a relative of the virus that caused the SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) outbreak in 2003. Like SARS, experts suspect that the new coronavirus leapt from animals at the market to humans, sparking the outbreak.
But until this weekend, there were reasons to be optimistic that the new outbreak could be easily managed. ... That has all changed. As the case tally shot up over the last few days, officials say that there is clear evidence that the virus is spreading from person to person, and at least 14 medical staff members contracted the virus.
“We expect the number of infected cases will increase over the Lunar New Year travel period, and we need to prevent the emergence of a super-spreader of the virus,” Zhong said. Millions are expected to travel during the holiday period.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-coronavirus-kills-third-person-spre
ads-to-more-cities-11579494221
Coronavirus Is Spreading Quickly Across China as Confirmed Cases Triple
One reason for the rapid increase in reported cases is that a diagnostic test for the virus is now available.
Health authorities in Wuhan, a densely populated city of 19 million people, said Monday that the number of patients infected with the new coronavirus jumped to 198, from 62 on Sunday. The statement said 35 of those cases were severe, while nine were critical.
The newly discovered coronavirus so far is significantly less deadly than SARS. However, it is in the same class of pathogens, and this outbreak is clearly larger than scientists and officials initially believed.


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Tuesday, January 21, 2020 6:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


CDC: Chinese coronavirus outbreak has reached the U.S.
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-01-21/china-coronavirus-out
break-us

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Tuesday, January 21, 2020 7:07 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Sometimes I feel like I'm patient zero in the USA. I can't believe what I have is just influenza B Victoria.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:21 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I wouldn't worry about the corona virus.

But, what do I know. We're probably due for a mass extinction event or two.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, January 22, 2020 12:19 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I just kinda am interested in this stuff. It's been an interest since I was a small child, sitting on the floor with my mother's HUGE physiology book covering my entire lap, looking at the pictures.

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Wednesday, January 22, 2020 4:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


CNN today:

China shuts down public transit and flights in Wuhan as virus outbreak grows
• Life inside ground zero of deadly virus outbreak
The city government announced a series of new measures Tuesday to contain the outbreak -- efforts some critics say came too late -- the virus has already spread to a dozen provinces across the country. (I'd say it's far too late to stop the spread out of Wuhan.)
• Deadly virus sparks fears of possible pandemic
However, the World Health Organization (WHO) has not yet declared the virus a "public health emergency of international concern" ... The organization's emergency committee met Wednesday in Geneva, but decided more information was needed... It is expected to take up the matter again on Thursday. (If this is an actual emergency, the WHO is acting far too cautiously. There's kind of a decision process one can use, which is to decide a default response ahead of time in the absence of additional information. Their default response is 'do nothing', though I don't think it was actively decided - it's just inertia.)
• What to know about the mysterious virus
The Wuhan coronavirus fatality rate is (currently) lower than for SARS and MERS, but still comparable to the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic, explains Neil Ferguson ... he highlights that novel viruses spread much faster through a population.




NYTimes today:

- China Closing Off City of 11 Million, Center of Deadly Outbreak
- As the virus spreads, Beijing is silencing and punishing those who veer from the official line.
- At least 17 people have died, and the World Health Organization is considering declaring a global emergency.



WaPo today:

Chinese city at the center of coronavirus outbreak to suspend outbound travel
• As families tell of pneumonia-like deaths in Wuhan, some wonder if China virus count is too low
• Graphic: Mapping the virus’s spread
What you need to know about the deadly coronavirus found in the U.S.




Business Insider

The Wuhan coronavirus has killed 17 people and infected more than 540. Here's everything we know about the outbreak.

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Wednesday, January 22, 2020 6:08 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I thought that this article had the most technical and up-to-date information, with an abundance of links.

https://gizmodo.com/deadly-wuhan-virus-in-china-may-have-come-from-sna
kes-1841161392

Deadly Wuhan Virus in China May Have Come from Snakes, Scientists Say

As an outbreak of a newly discovered SARS-like virus threatens to spiral out of control in China, some scientists think they’ve uncovered its animal origins. Their new research suggests the virus is native to snakes.

The germ in question, dubbed 2019-nCoV for now, is a type of coronavirus. While most coronaviruses that sicken people cause little more than a common cold, they’re potentially very dangerous. These viruses also infect a wide variety of animals, and if an animal-borne coronavirus successfully jumps over to people, our immune systems may be less able to beat them effectively. That unfamiliarity can make them especially virulent, though not necessarily contagious. It’s a pattern that already happened with the related coronaviruses that cause SARS and MERS, which killed anywhere from 10 to 30 percent of their human victims during their initial outbreaks.

When the first cases of 2019 n-CoV began showing up last December in the Wuhan region of China, doctors immediately suspected that it was spread through animals. Many of the first victims had visited a local food market—since shut down—that frequently hosted all sorts of live animals. Since then, the number of new documented victims has erupted, with more than 400 cases overall as of January 21, according to the Chinese government, while at least 17 people have died. Even more worrying is that 2019-nCoV is infecting people who had never visited the market, confirming it’s capable of spreading from person to person like a typical flu.

The new study, published Wednesday in the Journal of Medical Virology, looks at the genetic code of 2019-nCoV, which was identified by scientists working for the Chinese government and shared with the global research community earlier this month.

The researchers, all in China, compared the genetic sequence of 2019-nCoV to other known species of coronavirus. Their initial analysis found that the virus is a mix between a coronavirus that originates in bats and another coronavirus whose host origin is unknown—a process called recombination. This recombination seems most apparent in the part of the virus’ RNA that lets it recognize a cell’s surface receptors. They then concluded that the virus’s most likely natural host is a snake, based on patterns of RNA that the virus shares with other snake-borne coronaviruses. Snakes, perhaps not incidentally, are commonly farmed and sold in China as food and alternative medicine remedies.

Viruses evolve to recognize and hijack their specific host’s cells and make more of themselves. That’s why a dog virus typically can’t make people sick and vice-versa. But sometimes, a virus’s existing genetic machinery can help it infect other animals. Other times, mutations or recombination can give a strain of virus a newfound ability to cross the species barrier.

The genetic shuffling seen in 2019-nCoV, the researchers wrote, “may contribute to cross-species transmission from snake to humans.”

According to Brandon Brown, a public health researcher and epidemiologist at the University of California Riverside, there are still many unsolved questions about 2019-nCoV and its potential for disaster.

SARS and MERS were hard-hitting, for instance, but neither mutated into a strain that was both virulent and incredibly contagious—a scenario that could have very well turned into a globe-spanning pandemic. Initially, 2019-nCoV appeared to be far milder than SARS or MERS, but the reported death toll has risen quickly in recent days. And although we know that 2019-nCoV can spread between people, we don’t know how contagious it is, nor its risk of mutating further.

Regardless, Brown told Gizmodo via email that he sees no reason to delay ramping up our preparation for 2019-nCoV.

“The alternative is to potentially deal with a global epidemic, which can be avoided by doing something like declaring a public health emergency and preparing with additional funding and attention,” he said. “It’s time we do more work and efforts towards prevention rather than responding to a crisis after it occurs.”

A handful of cases of 2019-nCoV have already reached the U.S. and other countries, though all seem to have originated from travel to the Wuhan region of China. And the rapid development of the outbreak has reached a crisis point in China. This afternoon, the Chinese government ordered the complete shutdown of public transportation in Wuhan as well as the cancellation of flights and trains departing from the city of 11 million people.

On Wednesday, the World Health Organization convened an emergency meeting in Geneva, Switzerland and deliberated over whether to declare the outbreak an international public health emergency. In a press conference held this afternoon, WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said the organization has not made a final decision on the declaration and will reconvene for another meeting Thursday.

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Wednesday, January 22, 2020 7:19 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Just in general -

With the number of infected people in China exploding rapidly, it's obvious (to me) that they haven't all visited the live-animal market in Wuhan where the virus is thought to have been centered. Considering the market in question has been closed since January 1 2020 'for decontamination' ... yet cases continue to spike ... either the virus has a really, REALLY ridiculously long latent period (3 weeks), OR it's being spread outside of the market. Obviously (to me) the virus is fairly easily (explosively) spreading person-to-person, despite all the cautious statements about unknown contagiousness. CIDRAP reports Wuhan probably has 4000 symptomatic cases. http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/01/who-decision-ncov-e
mergency-delayed-cases-spike

It's also fairly obvious (to me) that both the number of cases and number of deaths are significantly under-reported. Information-gathering can't help but be behind the curve in a rapidly developing situation, even assuming authorities are being upfront with information.

More worrisome is that Chinese scientists are reporting that the virus is undergoing significant mutation as it spreads.


Looking backwards - there are still no anti-viral drugs to combat the previous corona-virus outbreaks SARS (first reported 2002) and MERS (first reported 2012). And as best I can tell, there are no vaccines to date after all this time, either.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/mers/about/prevention.html
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/11/7/pdfs/05-0219.pdf
So, if I use past experience with previous corona-virus outbreaks to predict the forward path of this corona-virus "2019-nCoV" outbreak, we have neither drugs nor vaccines to combat it, nor are we likely to have any in the future.



If I had to guess, I'd say this thing has been noodling around at a low level until the Chinese Lunar New Year brought people out in force doing their pre-holiday shopping. "And then it exploded."

But this kind of thing is predictable in the generic sense. Round about the time in 1995 when people found out there was a monkey-to-human air-transmissible Ebola virus outbreak in Reston Virginia (The Hot Zone), Garrett came out with a book showing how 1) increased intrusion of humans into animal-disease-space along with 2) increased international travel made pandemic disease a matter of when, not if (The Coming Plague).

We may not be there yet. But how many abortive starts do we need to get a clue? We need to be better prepared, and we need to be doing things differently than we are now. Because as far as I can tell, what we're doing is to just continue on like always, with fingers crossed.

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Thursday, January 23, 2020 1:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


CNN today:
Coronavirus spreads more easily from person to person than previously thought, says WHO official
https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-intl-hnk/h_274
8e6c7898fd744e47b47a135c75203



Ya' think, Sherlock?

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Friday, January 24, 2020 2:45 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


CNN today

Tens of millions under lockdown
https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-hnk-intl-0
1-24-20/index.html

SEOUL, SOUTH KOREA - JANUARY 24: Disinfection workers wearing protective gears spray anti-septic solution in an train terminal amid rising public concerns over the spread of China's Wuhan Coronavirus at SRT train station on January 24, 2020 in Seoul, South Korea. The number of cases of a deadly new coronavirus rose to over 800 in mainland China as health officials stepped up efforts to contain the spread of the pneumonia-like disease which medicals experts confirmed can be passed from human to human. The number of those who have died from the virus in China climbed to twenty five on Wednesday and cases have been reported in other countries including the United States,Thailand, Japan, Taiwan and South Korea. (Photo by Chung Sung-Jun/Getty Images)

Dozens of people are dead in China and more than 800 infected as the Wuhan virus continues to spread
https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-hnk-intl-0
1-24-20/index.html

Video appears to show desperation of patients in Wuhan
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2020/01/24/china-wuhan-coronaviru
s-hospital-overcrowd-culver-nr-vpx.cnn

Wuhan to build hospital dedicated to virus outbreak in six days
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/24/china/wuhan-coronavirus-update-intl
-hnk/index.html

What is the coronavirus and is it worse than SARS?
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/22/world/wuhan-coronavirus-visual-guid
e-intl/index.html


https://www.greenwichtime.com/news/article/Wuhan-quarantine-expands-as
-Chinese-fear-14997682.php
A bigger outbreak is certain," said Guan Yi, a virologist who helped identify severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in 2003. He estimated - "conservatively," he said - that this outbreak could be 10 times bigger than the SARS epidemic because that virus was transmitted by only a few "super spreaders" in a more defined part of the country.

"We have passed through the 'golden period' for prevention and control," he told Caixin magazine from self-imposed quarantine after visiting Wuhan. "What's more, we've got the holiday traffic rush and a dereliction of duty from certain officials."

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced Thursday that health officials in Texas notified it about a potential case of coronavirus. CDC said in a statement that it is in communication with state health officials and will share more information as it becomes available.

Health officials in Brazos County, Texas - which is where Texas A&M University is located and is about 100 miles northwest of Houston - said they are investigating a patient who meets the definition of a potential case of the new virus. The patient contracted a respiratory illness within two weeks of traveling in Wuhan and is being isolated at home in accordance with recommendations from the CDC.

In Geneva, the World Health Organization cited Chinese efforts to prevent transmission and the limited number of cases recorded abroad as its reasons for not declaring Thursday that the outbreak was a public health emergency of international concern.

But WHO Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said at a news conference that the decision "should not be taken as a sign that WHO does not think the outbreak is serious or that we're not taking it seriously. Nothing could be further from the truth."

He said the emergency committee was divided on whether the outbreak deserved the special designation, but said regardless, the outbreak amounts to "an emergency in China.""It has not yet become a global health emergency, but it may become one."



https://news.yahoo.com/virologist-helped-identify-sars-coronavirus-225
800266.html

Experts are seeing shocking similarities between the coronavirus that has now spread beyond China and the SARS outbreak of 2003.

Like the infectious pneumonia that has killed at least 17 people, SARS was caused by a coronavirus that originated in China. But when one of the virologists who helped identify the SARS virus visited Wuhan, where this virus originated, he didn't see nearly enough being done to fight it. People were out at markets without masks, "preparing to ring in the New Year in peace and had no sense about the epidemic," Guan Yi of the University of Hong Kong's State Key Laboratory of Emerging Infectious Diseases told Caixin. Airports were hardly being disinfected, Guan continued, saying the local government hasn't "even been handing out quarantine guides to people who were leaving the city."

The city did disinfect the market where the virus has been traced to, but Guan criticized Wuhan for that, saying it hurts researchers' abilities to track down the virus's source. "I've never felt scared," Guan told Caixin. "This time I'm scared."

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Friday, January 24, 2020 3:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The virus has a lot of potential to be a pandemic, but what eventually will happen is pretty much up to its genetics and mutations. My opinion is that given the information so far - especially the virus's explosive spread far past its origin in mere weeks - officials shouldn't be waiting for proof of pandemic, they should be acting on the potential for one. Otherwise, we're just hoping for luck. I dunno. How lucky do we feel today, punk?

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Saturday, January 25, 2020 1:33 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


CNN today

Hong Kong upgrades Wuhan virus outbreak to 'emergency' | Three cases confirmed in France | Four in Australia | Over 230 are in critical condition in China
https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-hnk-intl-0
1-25-20/index.html
• WSJ: US to evacuate Americans out of China
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/25/politics/coronavirus-us-evacuate-am
ericans-china/index.html
• Wuhan medical workers tell of coronavirus challenges
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/25/china/wuhan-coronavirus-update-intl
-hnk/index.html
• Video appears to show desperation of patients in Wuhan
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2020/01/24/china-wuhan-coronavirus-ho
spital-overcrowd-culver-nr-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/around-the-world/
• A visual guide to the Wuhan coronavirus
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/22/world/wuhan-coronavirus-visual-guid
e-intl/index.html

A lot has changed since China's SARS outbreak 17 years ago. But some things haven't
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/24/asia/china-sars-coronavirus-intl-hn
k/index.html

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Saturday, January 25, 2020 10:08 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Comment: How bad? It all depends on the ease of infection.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2020/01/harvard-expert-calls-coro
navirus-outbreak-thermonuclear-pandemic-level-bad.html

Harvard expert calls coronavirus outbreak 'thermonuclear pandemic level bad'

An expert advisor to the World Health Organization (WHO) has described the coronavirus outbreak as potentially "thermonuclear pandemic level bad".

But research into the disease - which at present has no vaccine, and might not for months - has doctors worried. Some have estimated for every person that gets infected, they will infect up to four more.


https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://www.medrxiv.org/co
ntent/10.1101/2020.01.23.20018549v1.full.pdf
Novel coronavirus 2019-nCoV: early estimation of epidemiological parameters and
epidemic predictions
Jonathan M. Read1, Jessica R.E. Bridgen1, Derek A.T. Cummings2, Antonia Ho3, Chris P. Jewell1

Affiliations:
1. Centre for Health Informatics, Computing and Statistics, Lancaster Medical School,
Lancaster University, Lancaster, United Kingdom.
2. Department of Biology and Emerging Pathogens Institute, University of Florida,
Gainesville, United States of America.
3. Medical Research Council-University of Glasgow Centre for Virus Research, Glasgow,
United Kingdom.
Correspondence: jonathan.read@lancaster.ac.uk
Key findings
• We estimate the basic reproduction number of the infection (RR0) to be significantly greater than one. We estimate it to be between 3.6 and 4.0, indicating that 72-75% of transmissions must be prevented by control measures for infections to stop increasing.
• We estimate that only 5.1% (95%CI, 4.8–5.5) of infections in Wuhan are identified, indicating a large number of infections in the community, and also reflecting the difficulty in detecting cases of this new disease. Surveillance for this novel pathogen has been launched very quickly by public health authorities in China, allowing for rapid assessment of the speed of increase of cases in Wuhan and other areas.
• If no change in control or transmission happens, then we expect further outbreaks to occur in other Chinese cities, and that infections will continue to be exported to international destinations at an increasing rate. In 14 days’ time (4 February 2020), our model predicts the number of infected people in Wuhan to be greater than 190 thousand (prediction interval, 132,751 to 273,649). We predict the cities with the largest outbreaks elsewhere in China to be Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, Chongqing and Chengdu. We also predict that by 4 Feb 2020, the countries or special administrative regions at greatest risk of importing infections through air travel are Thailand, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and South Korea.
• Our model suggests that travel restrictions from and to Wuhan city are unlikely to be effective in halting transmission across China; with a 99% effective reduction in travel, the size of the epidemic outside of Wuhan may only be reduced by 24.9% on
4 February.
• There are important caveats to the reliability of our model predictions, based on the assumptions underpinning the model as well as the data used to fit the model. These should be considered when interpreting our findings.


Others have come to figures of 3.8, 3.3, and 2.6, all above the WHO's estimate of between 1.4 and 2.5.

It's also been discovered people can carry the virus without showing symptoms, doctors calling them "cryptic cases of walking pneumonia".

Only 5.1 percent of all cases in Wuhan have been identified, researchers in the UK estimate, with perhaps more than 11,000 infected by January 21.




The UK scientists said it's still "early days", but it's looking like 2019-nCoV is spreading faster than SARS did in 2002/3. SARS went on to kill 774 people.

Dr Feigl-Ding said we're facing "possibly an unchecked pandemic that the world has not seen since the 1918 Spanish Influenza".

"Let's hope it doesn't reach that level but we now live in the modern world with faster [planes and trains] than 1918."

The Spanish Flu wasn't as contagious as 2019-nCoV appears to be, with patients only infecting about two others on average - and it killed possibly as many as 50 million people.

Dr Feigl-Ding called on WHO to declare an emergency "ASAP". WHO last week said it was "too soon" to declare an emergency. They're set to meet again this week to reevaluate that decision.

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Sunday, January 26, 2020 1:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I'm knocked out by what is probably a well-known Influenza B Victoria bug. I can't imagine what would happen with something much more contagious. Even if it isn't more deadly, it has the capacity to infect a whole lot more people... by a factor of several thousand ... so even an "inconsequnetial" flu can cause a lot of death if it infects a lot of people.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Sunday, January 26, 2020 1:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


A former co-worker now retiree just texted me the first case of 2019nCoV is here in SoCal in Santa Ana. Though it would have been funnier if it showed up in Corona.

I think 'm going to look like an idiot and start wearing a mask. And using hand sanitizer where I can find it, and asking the stores I frequent to set some out for general use.

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Sunday, January 26, 2020 1:41 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Meh... it will be fine.

If this were 20 years ago, you'd barely hear about it. But with the internet and cable news today I'm sure people are hearing about it 10 times a day at least.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, January 26, 2020 1:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Out there you're probably well-isolated Jack, but here in SoCal there's A LOT of travel between China and this area! Here's a figure I pulled from wiki - keep in mind this is one route out of many:

Busiest international routes to and from LAX (2019)
Taipei–Taoyuan 857,257 passengers China Airlines, EVA Air
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_International_Airport

Back when, when I lived in NYS, I never ever got sick. It was such a backwater. Nothing new ever showed up. But when I moved here to SoCal, I got slammed at least once a year. And it's because there are so many international vectors in and out of here.

The other thing I know for a fact is that for every one case you see, there are many you don't. So, given my long history of asthma and poor lung function, I'd rather look weird - and be safe!

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Sunday, January 26, 2020 2:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Indeed. Have never been so sick as in LA. At my doctors office they have stations set up with hand sanitizer, masks, and antiviral laced tissues. Soon as I arrived I put on a mask and used the hand sanitizer. Dr asked me if I was trying not to get sick, I told her I was just trying not to get OTHER people sick! She smiled.

One good thing about masks is that they also keep you from touching your nose or mouth.

Hey, maybe it will be cured by a Corona beer! In Corona!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Sunday, January 26, 2020 2:36 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I usually get pretty sick every year or two. Got hit pretty hard the last two years actually, but that's probably because I was working retail. Not only can't the people afford to stay home when they're sick and lose that pay, but you're talking thousands of potentially sick customers too. Plenty of flu going around every year. I've just probably missed it this year because I'm not working. *fingers crossed*

I'm not telling you not to protect yourself. Absolutely do whatever you feel is necessary, especially given your history. I just feel like maybe you're thinking too much about it is all. Don't let the Legacy Media do to you with this virus what it's done to everybody who's got TDS.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, January 26, 2020 2:58 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I've heard some news reports, usually daily, about this.

Seems I recall a report of one dead. Something like 20 cases.
Then I heard, maybe next day, 9 dead.
Next figure I heard was 26 dead.
Next figure I heard was 50-some dead. And 800-some cases.

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Sunday, January 26, 2020 3:11 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I recall the swine flu that wasn't. SARS, tho deadly, apparently mutated to a less virulent form. But apparently the R-naught of this virus is extraordinarily high, which means that even if it's not a "killer" virus an awful lot of ppl will get sick and some of them will die.

I intend to wear a mask as well

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

Happy New Year, WISHY. I edited out your psychopathic screed!

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Sunday, January 26, 2020 4:31 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I've been asking the stores where I go to please put out hand sanitizers where customers can use them, but I intend to keep one in the car as well. If I can find one that's 60% or more alcohol (either ethanol or IPA), even better!

A second case of coronavirus has just been confirmed in SoCal since this morning.

But for now, all we're going to hear about is Kobe Bryant.

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Sunday, January 26, 2020 9:55 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
The New England Journal of Medicine
Another Decade, Another Coronavirus
The viral genome has been sequenced, and these results in conjunction with other reports show that it is 75 to 80% identical to the SARS-CoV and even more closely related to several bat coronaviruses.3 It can be propagated in the same cells that are useful for growing SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV, but notably, 2019-nCoV grows better in primary human airway epithelial cells than in standard tissue-culture cells, unlike SARS-CoV or MERS-CoV.
Transmission of 2019-nCoV probably occurs by means of large droplets and contact (comment: making surgical masks and hand sanitizers appropriate) and less so by means of aerosols and fomites, on the basis of our experience with SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2001126
Quote:
South China Morning Post
5 million left Wuhan before lockdown, 1,000 new coronavirus cases expected in city
“From observations, the virus is capable of transmission even during incubation period,” Ma said, adding that the incubation period lasted from one to 14 days. “Some patients have normal temperatures and there are many milder cases. There are hidden carriers,” he said.
Ma said also that the virus had adapted to humans and appeared to have become more transmissible. “There are signs showing the virus is becoming more transmissible. These walking ‘contagious agents’ [hidden carriers] make controlling the outbreak a lot more difficult.”
Ma said that the epidemic was accelerating and “may last for some time”.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3047720/chinese-premie
r-li-keqiang-head-coronavirus-crisis-team-outbreak

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Sunday, January 26, 2020 10:38 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Man... people online are going all Y2K about this. I've had to finally tell YouTube that I wasn't interested in any videos based off of that topic because they keep popping up in my recommended feed.

Meanwhile, nobody I know IRL has even brought it up.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, January 27, 2020 5:22 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

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Monday, January 27, 2020 5:24 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I've been asking the stores where I go to please put out hand sanitizers where customers can use them, but I intend to keep one in the car as well. If I can find one that's 60% or more alcohol (either ethanol or IPA), even better!

A second case of coronavirus has just been confirmed in SoCal since this morning.

But for now, all we're going to hear about is Kobe Bryant.
Is rubbing alcohol just as good?

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Monday, January 27, 2020 6:35 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Cleaned my pliers with it before pulling out teeth and I'm still alive.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, January 27, 2020 8:25 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I've been asking the stores where I go to please put out hand sanitizers where customers can use them, but I intend to keep one in the car as well. If I can find one that's 60% or more alcohol (either ethanol or IPA), even better!

A second case of coronavirus has just been confirmed in SoCal since this morning.

But for now, all we're going to hear about is Kobe Bryant.
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Is rubbing alcohol just as good?
Yep, but don't try drinking it! BTW, rubbing alcohol is AKA isopropyl alcohol AKA IPA (not India pale ale!) aka isopropanol.

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Monday, January 27, 2020 8:31 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Man... people online are going all Y2K about this. I've had to finally tell YouTube that I wasn't interested in any videos based off of that topic because they keep popping up in my recommended feed.

Meanwhile, nobody I know IRL has even brought it up.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Yanno, I've been trying to find disposable surgical masks here at pharmacies (even pharmacies associated with large stores like Walmart), medical supply places, and surgical supply places - and they've been out for over a week with restock dates mostly weeks away! Even Amazon is almost out of all brands. Nobody might be talking about it there, within your hearing - but here, they're buying a hell of a lot of masks! And hand sanitizers, which are also almost all out. (I found a few at Walgreens and stocked up, but none at Target where I went first.)

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Monday, January 27, 2020 8:32 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I've been asking the stores where I go to please put out hand sanitizers where customers can use them, but I intend to keep one in the car as well. If I can find one that's 60% or more alcohol (either ethanol or IPA), even better!

A second case of coronavirus has just been confirmed in SoCal since this morning.

But for now, all we're going to hear about is Kobe Bryant.
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Is rubbing alcohol just as good?
Yep, but don't try drinking it! BTW, rubbing alcohol is AKA isopropyl alcohol AKA IPA (not India pale ale!) aka isopropanol.



Yes. This is VERY true.

I don't recall at this time if I know that because I had a moment of weakness right after I quit drinking and knew I had a bottle of it in the house, or if I was doing research to find out if it was safe to have it in my house because it WAS poison.

It was one of those two things. My brain was still a bit foggy there in the early days of sobriety.



(lol @ "not India pale ale!")

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, January 27, 2020 8:34 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well - whichever it was, I'm glad you checked it out first and didn't have a 'what the hell' moment!


(lol @ "not India pale ale!") Yanno - there are so many shared acronyms that mean different things, depending on where you come from. Because I came from a medically-related background, to me GC was gonococcus, the bacteria that causes gonorrhea. And then I moved over to the chemistry side where GC was gas chromatography. And people said GC A LOT, because it was one of the instruments most commonly in use at the time. Needless to say, it was a couple of years before I stopped giggling inside every time I heard GC.

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Tuesday, January 28, 2020 3:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


The actual news is more of the same - soaring infection numbers, more deaths, increased isolation measures in China (except for the wealthy who are freely flying out at the rates of hundreds of commercial flights a day), more countries affected, and then there's this from CNN: • There's been a run on surgical masks in US.


Yep - been there, done that. But here in SoCal stores ran out BEFORE this corona virus got any traction. And that's because LACounty declared a flu emergency over a week ago (11 days ago, specifically), with many cases and many deaths - due to influenza B/ Victoria strain. (Their concern was that the really high death rate is in people under 40.) Also been there, done that with influenza B/ Victoria, except for the dying part, of course. SOOOooooo over getting the flu or any contagion again this year!

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Tuesday, January 28, 2020 8:14 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Heard yesterday the Chinese added 1700 cases in one day, for a total of 4,500 cases.

In WI, they claim they have tested 100 folk, nobody positive yet. Group from UW-Platteville just got back from China, they are in quarantine as precaution.


Does anybody think it is contained within America? The cases which are here, we know which/where they are, and each is contained?

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Tuesday, January 28, 2020 8:15 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Cleaned my pliers with it before pulling out teeth and I'm still alive.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
You cleaned your pliers with coronavirus before pulling your teeth?

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Tuesday, January 28, 2020 8:18 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
I've been asking the stores where I go to please put out hand sanitizers where customers can use them, but I intend to keep one in the car as well. If I can find one that's 60% or more alcohol (either ethanol or IPA), even better!

A second case of coronavirus has just been confirmed in SoCal since this morning.

But for now, all we're going to hear about is Kobe Bryant.
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Is rubbing alcohol just as good?
Yep, but don't try drinking it! BTW, rubbing alcohol is AKA isopropyl alcohol AKA IPA (not India pale ale!) aka isopropanol.
I recall different concentrations of IPA were named different things, one being rubbing alcohol. From your response, seems like any one of the IPA concentrations should be good enough.

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Tuesday, January 28, 2020 8:45 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Cleaned my pliers with it before pulling out teeth and I'm still alive.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
You cleaned your pliers with coronavirus before pulling your teeth?


Yup.

Or you can go back and read it again if you want to know what I really did.

You may want to try your post right before the one you just quoted of mine.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 28, 2020 8:54 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well - WAY back when, pretty far back in the previous century, they used to denature (poison) ethanol (drinking alcohol) with benzene in order to make rubbing alcohol for general use. Then they found out that benzene was a carcinogen. So they switched entirely to a different kind of alcohol - IPA/ isopropyl alcohol/ isopropanol - as rubbing alcohol instead of using 'denatured' ethanol. You may be thinking of the ethanol/ benzene mix when you think that different concentrations are called different things. A ethanol mixed with benzene would be a different 'concentration' of ethanol.

The differences between IPA and ethanol are, IPA is cheaper than ethanol because it's made from petroleum feedstocks in an industrial, high-volume, short-term process, as opposed to ethanol which is (usually) made from grains or other plant matter that are grown, fermented, filtered, and distilled. IPA is more toxic - you can't drink it in any quantity, whereas ethanol is only immediately toxic in large amounts. And IPA is a better degreaser, since it has more carbon-hydrogen bonds like a gasoline-type solvent. Chemically, IPA is three carbons with an alcohol group (-OH) stuck on the middle carbon in the place of hydrogen (-H), whereas ethanol is 2 carbons with an alcohol group (-OH) stuck on the end in the place of hydrogen (-H). Either one can be used as a rubbing alcohol, and they're both alcohols in any concentration, though they are of course different alcohols. I hope that clears up any residual confusion over what is what.

As for concentrations, either ethanol or IPA are good as sanitizers, but they should be >60% alcohol, and one should use enough that your hands stay wet for about a minute. Walgreens has hand sanitizers that are 70% ethanol, and the balance is glycerine (a completely edible non-toxic thickener) which keeps the ethanol from evaporating off in a flash. There's also a small amount of aloe vera (plant) extract and vitamin E.


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Wednesday, January 29, 2020 6:07 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Last night heard that the confirmed cases (from China) were over 6,000.

Back when the official count was under 3,000 some whistleblower nurse in China revealed there were actually over 90,000 cases.

I hear this has a 5% fatality rate - which seems fairly low.

Population of China is apparently 1.4 Billion. Practically a petri dish for an epidemic.

Does anybody outside China think they have a grip on it? Will every person in China eventually get exposed to it? Will this take out 1/20th of China's population.


Cool that a flight of 200 Americans got out, refueled in Anchorage, on to Ontario (California, in northern LA County), but then redirected to Marsh AFB, also in CA. But there are many Americans stranded in China who didn't make the flight, and are now quarantined.

I heard 5 confirmed cases in USA. Will there be a breakout? also a suspected case landing at Logan direct from China.


I looked for some countdown page for the number of cases or patients, but didn't find one.

I had found a site which seemed to be close to monitoring the count,but now I can't find it.

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Wednesday, January 29, 2020 6:47 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


How many cases, how many deaths ... either past, current or future ... those are very good questions! In this instance, data-gathering is inevitably FAR behind the facts. And there are arguments to project estimates in either direction. Looking at death rates for example: There's a good argument to be made that many, many cases of 2019-nCov are undiagnosed. And that these are people with mild cases of the virus, who go on to an unremarkable recovery, who will never be counted as survivors. But if they had been counted, they would have lowered the actual death rate considerably. Meanwhile, since they are uncounted, the official, apparent death rate would be too high. There's also a case to be made that many people are dying of the virus, through pneumonia, heart attack, asthma etc, or who went back to their villages where they passed away, who will never be counted as victims (either intentionally, or by lack of resources, or both). And of course while the actual death rate would be higher, the official, apparent death rate would be too low.

Ultimately, long after the fact, the number could be estimated by population-wide statistical 'excess deaths', if there are enough to move the overall death rate enough beyond chance probabilities.

And btw, if you had the answers and could convince people of your data and logic, you'd become famous, maybe even rich!



My personal opinion is that I see no reason why this won't eventually spread globally. For every confirmed case, I think they're at least 5 undiagosed. Those people are infectious, and can go around quietly infecting other people, who infect other people, and so on.

The worst-case estimates are that quarantine measures have to be roughly 75% complete to stop the spread (given higher infectivity numbers). I'm not seeing that in China. Globally, I think given what my estimates are for undiagnosed cases wandering around, I don't see really good control anywhere else, either.

So the start may be small-scale in other countries, but unless either the virus changes, or control measures are adequate, I don't see anything other than a spread of the virus.

But, we'll see.

As for myself, since I'm STILL hacking my brains out and wheezing away 3 weeks after getting a mere flu, I'm definitely going to be using hand-sanitizer and wearing a mask in public. It might be overkill, but I really don't want to catch anything else this year.

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Wednesday, January 29, 2020 7:51 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Here's a sampling of the news:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/29/health/china-coronavirus-outbreak.h
tml
As Coronavirus Explodes in China, Countries Struggle to Control Its Spread

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-symptoms-do-face-masks-really
-protect-against-coronavirus-flu-spread-how-top-prevent/
Do face masks really protect against coronavirus?
(The Mayo Clinic reports that wearing a mask can help prevent getting the flu. While this ISN'T the flu, wearing a mask might also help. My opinion is, you have no idea how MANY times a day you scratch your nose or rub your eyes! If nothing else, wearing a mask will prevent or make you more aware of those behaviors.)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/01/29/coronavirus-wuha
n-china-outbreak-united-states-cdc-prepared-vaccine/4599870002/
US learned from Ebola but is 'nowhere near as prepared' as needed if coronavirus outbreak happened here

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/29/coronavirus-latest-updates.html
Coronavirus live updates: Outbreak is ‘grave concern’ as infections spread beyond China

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/health-experts-human-to-human-spr
ead-of-new-virus-worrying/ar-BBZq4be
Health experts: Human-to-human spread of new virus worrying



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Thursday, January 30, 2020 9:59 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...


I'm uncertain of the smartness of getting citizens out of China and back home....? Isn't that how it would spread? How do we know if they are carriers or not? I wouldn't be as concerned if we had a vaccine - and it does not seem to be as fatal (thank all the godz), but still... are they screened first by US Drs before boarding and how effective is the screening? Curiouser and curiouser.

Pandemic series no#1 on Netflix

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Thursday, January 30, 2020 10:04 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
I'm uncertain of the smartness of getting citizens out of China and back home....? Isn't that how it would spread? How do we know if they are carriers or not? I wouldn't be as concerned if we had a vaccine - and it does not seem to be as fatal (thank all the godz), but still... are they screened first by US Drs before boarding and how effective is the screening? Curiouser and curiouser.

Pandemic series no#1 on Netflix


I still want to note that I'm not at all worried about this thing and I think that people are taking this way to seriously.

That being said though, I agree with the Captain here. I was talking to my grandma on the phone yesterday and she had the news on mute and told me about them getting Americans out of China and I said "why the fuck are they doing that?"



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, January 30, 2020 5:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


WHO declares coronavirus a global health emergency
Wuhan coronavirus cases top 8,000 as countries step up evacuation efforts
https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-01-30-20-i
ntl-hnk/index.html

First US person-to-person transmission confirmed
First case of person-to-person transmission of Wuhan virus in the US confirmed
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/30/health/coronavirus-illinois-person-
to-person-cdc/index.html


Ok - I'm not saying it's time to jam the exit doors just yet. But I've been right so far, calling it 'explosively' human-to-human-transmissible before it was thought to be, saying that this was far bigger than being reported, that there was smouldering transmission going on, and saying that the WHO was doing too little, too late because the time to stop a pandemic is before it starts.

Epidemics/ pandemics are like wildland fires. They both start out small. In epidemics/ pandemics, it starts with only one person, called the index case.

In China, obviously it's out of control. When it comes to the rest of the world, the good thing about the WHO's declaration is that it releases funds and sets programs and people in motion. There may still be time to stamp this out.


Here's an interesting graphic:




Oh, this is some gossip I've been reading. There's supposedly a BSL4 facility (the level of facility that can handle deadly outbreaks for which there is no medicine or vaccine, like Ebola) within 20 miles of Wuhan, and one of the leading Chinese researchers temporarily working at a Canadian BSL4 facility (uncertain if it was the husband, or wife, or both) stole coronavirus (among other pathogens) from there on jawn's way back to China and its newly constructed lab.




Meanwhile, another deadly virus has infected 15 million in the US
A deadly virus is spreading from state to state and has infected 15 million Americans so far. It's influenza
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/30/health/flu-deadly-virus-15-million-
infected-trnd/index.html
Even the low-end estimate of deaths each year is startling, Savoy said: The Centers for Disease Control predicts at least 12,000 people will die from the flu in the US every year. In the 2017-2018 flu season, as many as 61,000 people died, and 45 million were sickened.
In the 2019-2020 season so far, 15 million people in the US have gotten the flu and 8,200 people have died from it, including at least 54 children. Flu activity has been elevated for 11 weeks straight, the CDC reported, and will likely continue for the next several weeks.


As I posted earlier, the LACounty health department declared a flu medical emergency a couple of weeks ago because of excess deaths from the flu in the under-40 population.

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Thursday, January 30, 2020 7:28 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Maybe I'll wait another month or two before I go rushing off to get a shitty part time job where nobody can afford to call in sick with unpaid time off.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, January 30, 2020 7:39 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
I'm uncertain of the smartness of getting citizens out of China and back home....? Isn't that how it would spread? How do we know if they are carriers or not? I wouldn't be as concerned if we had a vaccine - and it does not seem to be as fatal (thank all the godz), but still... are they screened first by US Drs before boarding and how effective is the screening? Curiouser and curiouser.

Pandemic series no#1 on Netflix
I still want to note that I'm not at all worried about this thing and I think that people are taking this way to seriously.

That being said though, I agree with the Captain here. I was talking to my grandma on the phone yesterday and she had the news on mute and told me about them getting Americans out of China and I said "why the fuck are they doing that?"

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Are you not thinking today?

If one is infected on the plane, they are all 200 risking getting it during the flight. Enclosed/confined space.
Once they get here, they are screened several times, and also quarantined for days or weeks if needed - and all would be willing to do so versus the alternative of staying in China.
These are all American citizens, mostly dependants of U.S. Diplomats - so we are lookng out for those who are doing our work for us.


If they are proven to be uninfected now, why would you declare they must be left where they will likely contract the fatal infection?
If one or more are infected at this point, it's not going to get from California to Indiana while they are in quarantine, so what is the problem?

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Thursday, January 30, 2020 7:43 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


lol

Ok. We'll see if none of them are infected.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, January 30, 2020 7:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Maybe I'll wait another month or two before I go rushing off to get a shitty part time job where nobody can afford to call in sick with unpaid time off.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Oh, I'm just quoting you to be clear who I'm responding to.

I dunno - how much do you trust the government to keep us informed if things get iffy? Because in a month or two we should know how things are going ... but that's assuming of course we're being told the truth.

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Thursday, January 30, 2020 7:47 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
If one is infected on the plane, they are all 200 risking getting it during the flight. Enclosed/confined space.
Once they get here, they are screened several times, and also quarantined for days or weeks if needed - and all would be willing to do so versus the alternative of staying in China.
These are all American citizens, mostly dependants of U.S. Diplomats - so we are lookng out for those who are doing our work for us.


If they are proven to be uninfected now, why would you declare they must be left where they will likely contract the fatal infection?
If one or more are infected at this point, it's not going to get from California to Indiana while they are in quarantine, so what is the problem?
I don't know about anywhere else or anyone else, but the plane scheduled for Ontario California was diverted to March AFB (Air Force base) where people will be housed and monitored for ... I think it's 2 weeks. One person is reported to have been caught after trying to sneak off the base.

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Thursday, January 30, 2020 7:52 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Maybe I'll wait another month or two before I go rushing off to get a shitty part time job where nobody can afford to call in sick with unpaid time off.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Oh, I'm just quoting you to be clear who I'm responding to.


Nobody in particular I guess.

Quote:
I dunno - how much do you trust the government to keep us informed if things get iffy?


Zero.

Quote:
Because in a month or two we should know how things are going ... but that's assuming of course we're being told the truth.


It's going to be a lot harder to hide it if it does spread here. They might be able to pull that shit in China, but if they wanted to silence people here they'd have to lock down Social Media, and there's no way they're getting away with that without sending out a big 'ole red flag.



Like I said before... I'm not at all worried about this and I think it's being blown way out of proportion like everything else always does.

In the mean time, no sense in rushing to get a job working at a place where you're most likely to contract something since people will go to work sick. I'm not hurting for money, and my tax return is about 7 weeks of unemployment more than I had planned on it being, so maybe I'll just sit this one out and keep working on my house for now. I've got enough materials now to keep me busy until April.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, January 30, 2020 8:18 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Sounds like a reasonable plan to me! If nothing else, maybe you'll avoid the actual nasty flu going around this year. Having a year off from getting the flu. Wouldn't THAT be nice!

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