REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

new deadly human-to-human-transmissible coronavirus emerges out of China

POSTED BY: 1KIKI
UPDATED: Thursday, September 5, 2024 19:55
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Monday, June 8, 2020 8:43 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


A detailed timeline of all the ways Trump responded to the coronavirus

A week and a half ago, the US coronavirus death toll surpassed 100,000 — the most in the world, and more than the next three countries combined.

That number has only grown in the days since. And in the face of that crisis, President Donald Trump has a message for the American people: It was China’s fault, and the only reason the US death toll isn’t worse is because of his quick action in banning travel from China.

In fact, there are many reasons the US death toll is so high, including a national response plagued by delays at the federal level, wishful thinking by President Trump, the sidelining of experts, a pointed White House campaign to place the blame for the Trump administration’s shortcomings on others, and time wasted chasing down false hopes based on poor science.

Often as not, though, rather than argue the merits of its response at home, the Trump administration has chosen to focus on its action against China as a benchmark for success — and that’s not accidental. In fact, Trump’s quick pivot to blaming China is a deliberate strategy, supposedly backed up by internal Trump campaign polling and designed to obfuscate the details of the truly inadequate US response. But in the early days of the novel coronavirus pandemic, Trump himself took a very different line on everything from China to the severity of the virus itself and how bad things might get in the US.

Though White House Coronavirus Task Force member Dr. Anthony Fauci admitted as early as March that the virus could kill 100,000 to 200,000 Americans, Trump has had his own ever-shifting goalposts for what counts as a successful response. On April 20, he predicted 50,000 to 60,000 dead from Covid-19. A week later, he revised his estimate to 70,000. On May 4, it was 80,000 to 100,000 people, and we now know it will continue to climb past that mark.

Throughout the pandemic, however, much of the Trump administration’s spin — regarding Trump’s own response, China’s role, and more — has been misleading, if not outright untrue. Here’s what Trump and the federal government have — and have not — done to respond to the virus.

More at www.vox.com/2020/6/8/21242003/trump-failed-coronavirus-response

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, June 8, 2020 8:54 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Nobody cares.

Democrats and the Legacy Media are destroying what tiny fragment of a chance that Creepy, Sleepy Quid Pro Joe had right now.



Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, June 8, 2020 12:19 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Nobody cares.

Democrats and the Legacy Media are destroying what tiny fragment of a chance that Creepy, Sleepy Quid Pro Joe had right now.



Do Wrong, Be Wrong. :(
Trump did not care, about Covid-19, because his good friend in China was taking care of it. But then Trump switched to blaming everything on China when things went wrong in America. The Chinese told Trump to not assume China can solve, from the other side of the Pacific Ocean, all Trump's problems, but Trump wasn't paying attention. Hopefully the voters will remember all the things Trump could have, yet didn't, do about Covid-19. If they do remember, Trump might not be reelected. What then will 6ixStringJack do?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, June 8, 2020 12:49 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by SECOND: blah blah blah ... TRUMP ... blah blah blah ... TRUMP ... blah blah blah
Once again, SECOND posts itself into irrelevance.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Monday, June 8, 2020 3:30 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


In the "never let a good crisis go to waste" category: NYT

Hospitals Got Bailouts and Furloughed Thousands While Paying C.E.O.s Millions

Dozens of top recipients of government aid have laid off, furloughed or cut the pay of tens of thousands of employees.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/08/business/hospitals-bailouts-ceo-pay
.html




Meanwhile, in the category of "it's not the count that matters, it's who gets to do them" category: NYT

Furious Backlash in Brazil After Ministry Withholds Coronavirus Data

President Jair Bolsonaro’s government stopped disclosing comprehensive data on coronavirus cases and deaths as cases continue to soar.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/08/world/americas/brazil-coronavirus-s
tatistics.html



And finally, in the "no one could ever have predicted this" category:
LATimes

Coronavirus transmission rate climbing in L.A. County as economy reopens

Health officials are detecting an uptick in coronavirus transmission and fear the number of COVID-19 hospital patients may increase.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-08/los-angeles-reopen
s-coronavirus-transmission-rate-climbing

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Monday, June 8, 2020 4:07 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Lancet has retracted the paper, and Surgisphere (the source of the "data") is under investigation.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK
Researcher involved in retracted Lancet study has faculty appointment terminated, as details in scandal emerge

The University of Utah has “mutually agreed” to terminate the faculty appointment of Amit Patel, who was among the authors of two retracted papers (Lancet, New England Journal retract Covid-19 studies) on Covid-19 and who appears to have played a key role in involving a little-known company that has ignited a firestorm of controversy.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/07/researcher-involved-in-retracted-l
ancet-study-has-faculty-appointment-terminated-as-details-in-scandal-emerge/

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Tuesday, June 9, 2020 4:08 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, no "social distancing" during protests/riots/looting.

Since the most prevalent mode of transmission seems to be super-spreaders in mass-gatherings, will we see a big bump in cases and deaths? (Yeah, I know SIX "Healthy young people just don't get Covid". Except they do.)

I expect a bump up in deaths in about one more week from "opening up", and a bigger one about the first week of July. I don't know what's going on with Michigan, but it took a HUGE jump up in the past few days. Normally I wouldn't comment on short-term variations, but that jump doubled their new deaths/week.

Stay tuned to see what happens.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Tuesday, June 9, 2020 12:39 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.




Quote:
Since the start of June, 14 states and Puerto Rico have recorded their highest-ever seven-day average of new coronavirus cases since the pandemic began, according to data tracked by The Washington Post: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Kentucky, New Mexico, North Carolina, Mississippi, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Utah.

If the pandemic’s first wave burned through dense metro hubs such as New York City, Chicago and Detroit, the highest percentages of new cases are coming from places with much smaller populations: Lincoln County, Ore., an area of less than 50,000, has averaged 20 new daily cases; the Bear River Health District in northern Utah has averaged 78 new cases a day in the past week, most of them tied to an outbreak at a meat processing plant in the small town of Hyrum.

The increase of coronavirus cases in counties with fewer than 60,000 people is part of the trend of new infections surging across the rural United States. Health experts worry those areas, already short of resources before the pandemic, will struggle to track new cases with the infrastructure that remains.




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Tuesday, June 9, 2020 4:14 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hey Signy

Overall, new cases per day in the US have plateaued at ~21,000 even as NYC, which used to dominate US statistics, continues to drop steeply. Other states must be collectively picking up the slack, a bit here and a touch there. But it all adds up.

Large super-spreading events do seem to be behind spread in places like NYC (plus its closely integrated populations like Connecticut), N Italy and Spain etc.


But I haven't figured out what's behind the relentless spread in SoCal and in states that are primarily rural. If super-spreading events cause spread, how are super-spreading events happening in SoCal and rural areas? I think something unaccounted's going on besides that, but for the life of me I can't figure out what.

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Tuesday, June 9, 2020 5:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/

current top 10 states/ district for per capita TOTAL confirmed cases
New York
New Jersey
Massachusetts
Rhode Island
DC
Connecticut
Delaware
Illinois
Maryland
Louisiana

current top 10 states/ district for per capita NEW cases
Arizona
Arkansas
DC
Iowa
Utah
Mississippi
South Carolina
Tennessee
Rhode Island
North Carolina


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Wednesday, June 10, 2020 2:32 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


LACounty just seems to sill be irrepressibly rising.


On a 5-point scale (not including 'not available'), for some reason, the City of Vernon (why Vernon?) has a really high rate of COVID-19 cases, along with WAAAyyyy out there Castaic. The City of LA wholesale district and the City of Industry (hunh?) have the second highest rates.

http://dashboard.publichealth.lacounty.gov/covid19_surveillance_dashbo
ard/



Signy's city is in the second-lowest category (355 - 831 per 100,000), mine is in the lowest (0 - 355). In this instance it's good to be less than average.

This is the first time I've looked at this dashboard. As the numbers keep going up, do they adjust the ranges of their categories?


ETA: Jun 12, 2020

Indeed, they're changing the ranges in each category to reflect higher case numbers. For example, the lowest category is now (0 - 374), and the second lowest is now (374 - 876). I guess these represent quintiles. So Vernon, which ranked highest along with Castaic when I first looked at the dashboard, is now in the third highest category; while Los Angeles - Wholesale District which was in the third highest category is now in the second highest category. Castaic still ranks in the highest category.

Even as testing increases, the case fatality rate is steady at 4%.

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Wednesday, June 10, 2020 3:06 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Signy predicted a rise in cases after reopening for mid-June. We're not quite at mid-June, but cases are definitely rising. (topic carried in many 'sources')

NYTimes:
As U.S. Reopens, 21 States See Virus Cases Rise
The number of infections surpassed 2 million in the U.S., as persistent spread continued in Arkansas, North Carolina and Florida. Here’s the latest.


WaPO
Many Americans are moving on, but the coronavirus isn’t
As states continue to push ahead with reopening, there are flashing red lights indicating that we are not out of the woods.

CNN
19 US states see rising coronavirus cases

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Wednesday, June 10, 2020 9:39 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


WHO comes out and says that asymptomatic spread is rare. Then backtracks.

WHO cares?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, June 10, 2020 9:53 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


One thing breathing does is cool you down. But mask-wearing impedes that. Here are some tricks to wearing masks in hot - and maybe even humid - weather:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/10/health/wear-masks-summer-heat-sweat
-wellness-trnd/index.html

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Thursday, June 11, 2020 1:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


After the US topped 2 million confirmed cases last night, a set of COVID-19 projections maintained by the University of Washington has just been updated, and is now projecting 170k COVID-19 linked deaths in the US by Oct. 1, that would be a rise of nearly 80% by October.




"It's not a second wave, they never really got rid of the first wave," says @ScottGottliebMD on #COVID19 outbreaks in Arizona, Texas, South Carolina and North Carolina.



Daily confirmed COVID-19 cases: are we bending the curve?

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-confirmed-daily-cases-epidemi
ological-trajectory?yScale=linear&country=BRA~IND~ITA~MEX~RUS~ESP~GBR~USA~OWID_WRL

Total confirmed COVID-19 cases

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-cases-covid-19?country=BRA~IN
D~ITA~MEX~RUS~ESP~GBR~USA~OWID_WRL


https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/cdc-expects-200k-covid-19-death
s-october-dreaded-second-wave-arrives-live-updates


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Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


However, none of them included zinc.


Three new studies discount HCQ.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6496/1166


But now three large studies, two in people exposed to the virus and at risk of infection and the other in severely ill patients, show no benefit from the drug. Coming on top of earlier smaller trials with disappointing findings, the new results mean it's time to move on, some scientists say, and end most of the trials still in progress.

“It just seems like we are ignoring signal after signal,” says Eric Topol, director of the Scripps Translational Science Institute. U.S. President Donald Trump's promotion of it led to a scientific “obsession” with hydroxychloroquine despite thin evidence for its promise, he says. “We'd be better off shifting our attention to drugs that might actually work.” Peter Kremsner of the University of Tübingen agrees hydroxychloroquine “certainly isn't a wonder drug.” The new results left him “wrestling” with the question of whether to proceed with two hydroxychloroquine trials, one in hospitals and the other in patients with milder illness at home.

On 5 June, researchers in the United Kingdom announced the results from the largest trial yet, Recovery, in a press release. In a group of 1542 hospitalized patients treated with hydroxychloroquine, 25.7% had died after 28 days, compared with 23.5% in a group of 3132 patients who had only received standard care. “These data convincingly rule out any meaningful mortality benefit,” wrote the investigators, who ended the study early and promised to publish the full results as soon as possible.

Another hope for hydroxychloroquine, that it might prevent people exposed to the virus from getting sick, also faded last week when David Boulware of the University of Minnesota, Twin Cities, and colleagues published the results of the largest study to date of this strategy, called postexposure prophylaxis (PEP). The researchers sent either hydroxychloroquine or a placebo by mail to 821 people who had been in close contact with a COVID-19 patient for more than 10 minutes without proper protection. They reported in The New England Journal of Medicine that 12% of the people who took the drug went on to develop COVID-19 symptoms, versus 14% in a placebo group, a difference that was not statistically significant.

A second large PEP trial has come up empty as well, its leader tells Science. Carried out in Barcelona, Spain, that study randomized more than 2300 people exposed to the virus to either hydroxychloroquine or the usual care. There was no significant difference between the number of people in each group who developed COVID-19, says Oriol Mitjà of the Germans Trias i Pujol University Hospital. Mitjà says he has submitted the results for publication.

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Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:09 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


An interesting article - live, weakened (attenuated) oral poliovirus vaccination (OPV), live attenuated measles-virus vaccines, and live non-pathogenic enterovirus (LEV) inoculation, as well as other live attenuated oral bacterial vaccinations (BCG, pertissus, et al), non-specifically reduce ALL viral infections, and also have an anti-cancer effect.

These observations are proposed to be a result of general innate immunity activation.

OPV is proposed as a general innate immunity activator, to see if it has a beneficial effect on SARS-CoV-2 infection.


https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6496/1187

These nonspecific beneficial effects may not be limited to OPV and LEV. Other live attenuated viral vaccines such as those against measles (5) and smallpox (9) have also been associated with pronounced nonspecific protective effects against infectious diseases. In Africa, when measles vaccine was introduced in the community, the overall mortality in children declined by more than 50%, a reduction that was far larger than anticipated on the basis of the protection against measles deaths alone (10).

Attenuated bacterial vaccines such as Bacillus Calmette–Guérin (BCG) against tuberculosis, as well as experimental live attenuated vaccine against pertussis (whooping cough), were also shown to protect against heterologous infections (5, 11). In addition, live pertussis vaccine also prevented noninfectious inflammatory diseases (11). RCTs [randomized clinical trials] showed that BCG vaccine at birth was associated with more than a one-third reduction of neonatal mortality, because BCG vaccine protected against deaths from septicemia and pneumonia (5).

The duration of the nonspecific protection induced by live vaccines is unknown but has been observed to last for many months to years after vaccination. For example, BCG given at school entry (5- to 6-year-olds) in Denmark was associated with a 42% reduction in the risk of dying from natural causes until the age of 45 years (9).

Recent reports indicate that COVID-19 may result in suppressed innate immune responses (15). Therefore, stimulation by live attenuated vaccines could increase resistance to infection by the causal virus, severe acute respiratory syndrome–coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2). Clinical studies of this hypothesis could begin immediately. BCG trials have already been initiated by immunizing frontline health care workers (NCT04327206, NCT04328441). The endpoint of these trials is the difference in COVID-19 incidence, duration, and severity between immunized and unimmunized populations.

We propose the use of OPV to ameliorate or prevent COVID-19. Both poliovirus and coronavirus are positive-strand RNA viruses; therefore, it is likely that they may induce and be affected by common innate immunity mechanisms.

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Friday, June 12, 2020 6:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Masks are the best way to prevent SARS-CoV-2 spread.


Identifying airborne transmission as the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19

We have elucidated the transmission pathways of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) by analyzing the trend and mitigation measures in the three epicenters. Our results show that the airborne transmission route is highly virulent and dominant for the spread of COVID-19. The mitigation measures are discernable from the trends of the pandemic. Our analysis reveals that the difference with and without mandated face covering represents the determinant in shaping the trends of the pandemic. This protective measure significantly reduces the number of infections. Other mitigation measures, such as social distancing implemented in the United States, are insufficient by themselves in protecting the public. Our work also highlights the necessity that sound science is essential in decision-making for the current and future public health pandemics.


https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/06/10/2009637117




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Saturday, June 13, 2020 12:22 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
To be fair, zerohedge was banned from Twitter for doxxing somebody.

I'm the last person in the world to stand up for corporate censorship, but you can't pick and choose when the rules apply and protecting people from being doxxed online is a good thing. This is a legitimate argument against the Lefties in Twitter who pick and choose when to apply their rules. To try to defend Zerohedge after doing what they let antifa wackjobs get away with on the regular muddies the water.

Zerohedge should have been more careful.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
And poof! ... just like that Twitter admits it was wrong.
Quote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/twitter-reinstates-zerohedge-after-a
dmitting-it-made-error

133 days after Twitter "permanently" banned Zero Hedge on January 31, the social network has reinstated us after admitting it made an error.

As a reminder, what happened in late January was confusing. Shortly after we asked if "This [Is] The Man Behind The Global Coronavirus Pandemic", referring to Wuhan Institute Of Virology scientist Peng Zhou (who three months later was being investigated by western spy agencies for his role in creating Covid) and some low-grade "reporter" from Buzzfeed decided to report us to Twitter for "doxxing" Zhou using publicly available information, Twitter told us that the account had been suspended for "violating Twitter rules against abuse and harassment", which was false as we neither incited abuse nor harrassment, but merely asked questions. But the confusing part is that at the same time, Twitter fabricated an entirely different explanation for its decision when speaking to outside media, telling them the suspension was due to "platform manipulation" - whatever that means.

An odd mix of conflicting explanations but in any case, neither was true as we said at the time, and as we further told Bloomberg, the suspension was "unjustified, and likely motivated by reasons other than the stated ones" adding that "we are confident that we did not violate any of the stated Twitter terms: we neither incited harassment, nor did we ‘dox’ the public official, whose contact information is as of this moment listed on the Wuhan institute’s website."

Fast forward to late Friday night, when unexpectedly we received a brief email from Twitter Support informing us that "we made an error in our enforcement action" as a result of which "we have unsuspended your account."

Speaking to Bloomberg, a Twitter spokesperson said that "we made an error in our enforcement action in this case. Based on additional context from the account holder in appeal, we have reinstated the account. We have a dedicated appeals process for all account holders."

Funny how mistakes happen when you ban first and ask questions later (and only when prompted to do so).

In any case, no bad blood right - honest mistake? Well, not really: before all this happened, none other than Twitter's CEO was following us.

Not any more.

The @zerohedge account also remains highly shadow banned (try searching for the actual zerohedge account on twitter, good luck), perhaps as an innocuous consequence of the "error."

That's OK though, we never expected an apology. We are just glad that we will be able to share facts and perspectives with our now 700K Twitter followers, a number which has spiked by more than 30K in just the past few hours since the suspension was overturned.


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Saturday, June 13, 2020 12:25 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


What it takes to keep SARS-CoV-2 under control.


Beijing Region In "Wartime Emergency" After New Virus Cluster Emerges At Major Food Market


https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/southwestern-beijing-assumes-wa
rtime-emergency-dozens-cases-tied-major-food-market


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Saturday, June 13, 2020 12:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


random data


Updated guidance from the World Health Organization now says everyone should wear cloth masks in public; and high-risk individuals should wear medical masks in certain settings, such as when crowd situations can't be avoided.

Off-label use of cancer drug acalabrutinib (Calquence), which blocks the Bruton tyrosine kinase (BTK) protein, was associated with reduced respiratory distress and reduction in overactive immune response in a small group of severe COVID-19 patients. (Science Immunology)

Half of Singapore's recent coronavirus cases have been asymptomatic, says co-head of the country's COVID-19 task force. (Reuters)

The U.S. government is slated to run out of remdesivir, the only drug known to treat COVID-19, at the end of June. (CNN)

Anecdotal evidence continues to emerge that COVID-19 can last for months in some patients. (The Atlantic) See also MedPage Today's earlier story on the subject.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/86933

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Saturday, June 13, 2020 12:51 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


JACK thinks if Trump doesn't talk about it, it doesn't exist.


Trump's solution for the coronavirus? Don't talk about it



Dr. Jeffrey Koplan, a former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (said) (i)f "they think that the risks are over, that’s dead wrong."

The administration apparently has decided "politically it's better for them not to engage in this pandemic," he added.

“I'm concerned that we're going to see some of the things that we’re already seeing," said Dr. David Satcher, a former CDC director and U.S. surgeon general. "When people stop the social distancing and sheltering at home, we’re going to see a spike again in cases. There are already examples of it, and the fear is there are going to be more.”

That see-no-evil approach put the White House at odds with federal health officials Friday when the CDC urged organizers of large gatherings that involve shouting, chanting or singing to “strongly encourage” the use of cloth face coverings to lower the risk of spreading the coronavirus.

Trump, who has refused to wear a mask in public, has made clear he's ready to move on. On Thursday, he flew to his golf club in Bedminster, N.J., for his first long weekend at one of his resorts since March.

While Trump has pressured states to reopen their economies, he has largely washed his hands of the details since early May. Without a coherent or detailed national plan, governors and local officials tried to fill the void as they juggled competing health and economic concerns.

The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington, one of the most prominent models, predicts a second wave of infections will begin in late August or early September.

Politics may also impact the size and power of the second wave. There is already a sharp division between Republicans and Democrats over whether to wear masks in public spaces.

Dr. Vivek Murthy, U.S. surgeon general under President Obama, notes that polls suggest many Americans won't get a vaccine when one is available even though it's the only to control the virus. He blames Trump's politicization of the disease and his false claims on the science.

"In times of uncertainty, people need accurate information and they need to know what our plan is," he said. "They're not hearing much on either front.”

https://news.yahoo.com/trumps-solution-coronavirus-dont-talk-205707270
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Saturday, June 13, 2020 1:20 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


It was never a problem in the first place.

You've already talked about it too much.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I see that per1MM case-wise, Sweden has been overtaken by Chile, Brazil and Saudi Arabia, followed by the USA nd Russia, with Bolivia and the Dominican Republic coming up fast. In terms of new deaths, Chile and Brazil take the lead, with Sweden in third place.


AFA the states are concerned, there are a lot, and I mean A LOT, of states where the per1MM new cases are coming up FAST, and for many states to "highest ever". Just lookig at the chart, there are many more states with the curve going up than down. This has been in the past week or so.

But AFA "new deaths" with the exception of GEORGIA (WTF is Georgia doing???) while they're not going down (like before) they're not going up either. Since deaths lag cases by about two weeks, I think my timeframe was a little short; I was guesstimating and uptick midmonth, but I would check again in a week.

Also, all of thedemonstrations/ riots will probably cause another uptick in cases in a week or so.

It's amazing how the news media changes narratives faster than most people can think.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:55 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


What's amazing is how quickly some people can flip mode from one panic to the next in the blink of an eye and in the world of multi-tasking aren't really able to deal with two going on at the same time.

I'm proud of my old man. He told me a few weeks back that after non-stop Coomph coverage every single night, the local newscast did not mention the Coomph one single time in an hour, instead focusing on the "protests".

He said he was done with the news.

Good.

But that still hasn't changed the family behavior over there yet. They only go out when absolutely necessary.

I wonder how many millions of people are terrified of leaving their own homes right now. Maybe we've even pushed quite a few of them into the grip of Agoraphobia.

Thanks, Legacy Media.


Mission Accomplished. I guess.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, June 13, 2020 11:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I see that per1MM case-wise, Sweden has been overtaken by Chile, Brazil and Saudi Arabia, followed by the USA nd Russia, with Bolivia and the Dominican Republic coming up fast. In terms of new deaths, Chile and Brazil take the lead, with Sweden in third place.
So much for the (semi) do-nothing approach. That's definitely not the way to go!



What should the US have done differently?

Most of the places that got it right had previous bitter experience with SARS-CoV-(1), excepting NZ and Australia. They (Vietnam, SK, Hong Kong, possibly Singapore, Taiwan, NZ, Japan - and on a per-capita basis even Australia) jumped on it right away and did massive testing and quarantine of positive-testing individuals along with public measures like mask-wearing. Basically, they got it before it had a chance to embed itself deeply in the population. And most spared themselves the problem of complete and/ or prolonged shut-down. So they're in pretty good shape medically, epidemiologically, and economically.


MOST countries didn't do as well and the virus embedded itself in the population. Even China, which was late but then determined, is having a hard time reopening as new clusters keep popping up randomly out of nowhere - most recently in a seafood market in Beijing. So China, for example, isn't in great shape medically, epidemiologically, and economically.


I think the question - economy or lives - is a false dilemma. How good an economy can you have if chunks of your population are overwhelming your medical systems? btw That's the problem Houston is having now, with hospital ICU's at full (one is at 100%) or nearly full (another is at 90%) capacity with a significant COVID-19 caseload. https://abc13.com/houston-icu-capacity-harris-health-ben-taub-lbj-hosp
ital/6201846/


Anyway, here in the US SARS-CoV-2 is here to stay. So ... what to do. That depends on what is.

I think low numbers are no guarantee. EVERY outbreak/ epidemic/ pandemic starts out with just one.

Even when numbers are low, given enough time, by chance, sooner or later the virus will meet a superspreader. And given enough people, sooner or later a superspreader will meet another superspreader. So I suspect that ANY major urbanized city in the US could be subject to a devastating NYC-style outbreak, if there are no controls.

The superspreader study seemed to indicate that for most people, the virus would end at them, or perhaps spread to one other person for an R0 of less than 1, if superspreaders are contained. But when one looks at multiple rural states where numbers are now going up, and suburban-sprawl SoCal where numbers have always been going up despite shelter-in-place and masks, the reality doesn't match the theory.

Some of that is simply people not heeding the warnings. For example, BOTH times when I took a cab to and from the car repair place, neither driver worse a mask. SERIOUSLY ?? They have a multiple-public-contact job in a confined space maybe even for an extended time and they didn't wear masks? Idiots. Plus I chit chat with the people at my local Chevron station and they've told me that about half the people aren't wearing masks when they come in. And the guy who owns the laundromat does actually have to tell people to leave if they don't have a mask on, so apparently people do come in without. OTOH the grocery stores I go to have been requiring masks for a long time and they have no problem telling people without masks to leave, so at this point no one even tries. The point is that social distancing and mask-wearing adherence is kind of spotty.

Still, if you believe the numbers from the superspreader study, that should make no difference at all. Without superspreader conditions cases should die out.

And yet, reality insists that it does make a difference.

Somewhere between locking everybody up, or saying 'what the hell' and throwing all cautions to the four winds, there's an answer.

TESTING PLUS QUARANTINE as a control measure may be too late to be an answer. Aside from the fact that there STILL aren't enough tests (THANKS! TRUMP! heck-of-a-job!), and that most people won't see a doctor unless they're deeply ill ... with the high number of new cases free-floating in the community you'd have to have an army of people deployed to track down and follow up on all the contacts. China can manage that. Places where SARS-CoV-2 is well under control can manage that. Not here.

REALISTICALLY TALLYING THE NUMBER OF CURRENTLY INFECTED would be good, especially if the results are timely. So one could run SARS-surveys IN TANDEM WITH flu-surveys in the surveillance network. That could alert one to spikes - situations where R0 has risen above 1. Also, making sure to count those infected based on clinical signs and symptoms, since roughly 1/3 of those infected test negative.

RE-CONFIGURING WORKPLACES ... like .. meat processing plants.

MANDATORY MASK-WEARING could be one answer in areas that have spikes, as well as in surrounding areas. The time for meaninglessly 'recommending' masks has passed at that point. Because some people will, but some won't.

CLOSING DOWN high-risk businesses like bars, restaurants, etc in areas with spikes, as well as in surrounding areas, would also be a good thing. They've been shown be a trigger for outbreaks in many places.

AND OF COURSE, closing down mass events since they've also been shown to be triggers for outbreaks.

ETA: I've been looking primarily at hospitalization numbers, because they're based significantly on clinical need. 'New cases' and 'deaths' might be affected by the number of tests done and so are susceptible to manipulation.

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Sunday, June 14, 2020 12:21 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It's amazing how the news media changes narratives faster than most people can think.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK
No kidding. People like JACK and his dad think that if it's not in the news it's not happening. And if it IS in the news and they ignore it, it's also not happening!

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Sunday, June 14, 2020 12:30 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Outside of a few staged events, it's not happening. Makes no matter to your life if you watch the news or not.


Whether or not you open Schrodinger's box, the cat is dead.

So just throw the box in the trash bin and don't think about it. Dogs are so much better than cats anyhow.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, June 14, 2020 3:17 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Outside of a few staged events, it's not happening. Makes no matter to your life if you watch the news or not.


Whether or not you open Schrodinger's box, the cat is dead.

So just throw the box in the trash bin and don't think about it. Dogs are so much better than cats anyhow.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
SIX, how long are you going to persist in the fantasy that it's all "staged" for your inconvenience? Normally you're pretty grounded. It would be a lot more realistic for you to argue whether shutting down the economy is "worth it" than to keep denying that there's a problem.

It's a legitimate question. Nobody should be afraid to discuss it.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Sunday, June 14, 2020 3:48 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
random data...

Updated guidance from the World Health Organization now says everyone should wear cloth masks in public; and high-risk individuals should wear medical masks in certain settings, such as when crowd situations can't be avoided.
"Should"? How about "must"?

Quote:
The U.S. government is slated to run out of remdesivir, the only drug known to treat COVID-19 at the end of June. (CNN)
Remdesivir is NOT "known" to treat COVID-19. The study showed that for a small group of people who were not too ill to begin with, Remdesivir shortened the course of illness by a small amount. One day, I think it was. But that when extending the evaluation to day 28, MORE PEOPLE DIED taking remdesivir than taking the placebo. so it had no positive effect on mortality. Fauci was all over remdesivir like white on rice, advocating its use before the study was even published. All I can say is, he must have stock in Gilead.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Sunday, June 14, 2020 7:05 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Outside of a few staged events, it's not happening. Makes no matter to your life if you watch the news or not.


Whether or not you open Schrodinger's box, the cat is dead.

So just throw the box in the trash bin and don't think about it. Dogs are so much better than cats anyhow.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
SIX, how long are you going to persist in the fantasy that it's all "staged" for your inconvenience? Normally you're pretty grounded. It would be a lot more realistic for you to argue whether shutting down the economy is "worth it" than to keep denying that there's a problem.

It's a legitimate question. Nobody should be afraid to discuss it.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK



It's not about inconvenience. It's about changing everybody's behavior en masse it seems to be working. Kelly Clarkson just divorced her husband and blamed it on the lockdown. :)


BTW, to any kids out there... (or adults for that matter)

Probably not a good idea to be listening to this song too often if you're still hanging around the house most of your life with nothing to do.



"I'm way to young to lie here forever, I'm way too young to old to try so whatever, come hang. Let's go out with a bang."

They even taunt you with the lyric "pretend you know this song everybody".

It's catchy. I'll give it that. When the lyrics of that one beyond the chorus sunk in, I realized that in between Coomph ads telling you what to do, or "Unity" ads trying to make you feel guilty that you did something wrong, the local "Alternative" station I was listening to played three songs about suicide or even encouraging suicide within a single hour, along with a little Jeremy's Spoken to balance it out.

Nope. I refuse.

All of it.


Except for Kiki, there were days long stretches at a time where nobody else was even posting about The Coomph here. Not going to go back to that bullshit now.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, June 14, 2020 12:19 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


1731 posts
23377 views

Somebody's interested.

And SARS-CoV-2 has NEVER been off of network news or the inet 'front' page.

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Sunday, June 14, 2020 12:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
SIX: Outside of a few staged events, it's not happening. Makes no matter to your life if you watch the news or not.
Whether or not you open Schrodinger's box, the cat is dead.
So just throw the box in the trash bin and don't think about it. Dogs are so much better than cats anyhow.

SIGNY: SIX, how long are you going to persist in the fantasy that it's all "staged" for your inconvenience? Normally you're pretty grounded. It would be a lot more realistic for you to argue whether shutting down the economy is "worth it" than to keep denying that there's a problem.
It's a legitimate question. Nobody should be afraid to discuss it.

SIX: It's not about inconvenience. It's about changing everybody's behavior en masse it seems to be working. Kelly Clarkson just divorced her husband and blamed it on the lockdown. :)
"Changing everybody's behavior"

From what, to what? From eating fatsfood to cooking at home? From packing to kids off to school for mass education indoctrination to homeschooling them? From learning that you can't stand the person that you married, because you married for stupid reasons? From hiring some wetback to scrape and paint your house or mow your lawn, to giving your entitled kids a scraper, paintbrush, and mower? From sinking exhausted on the couch at the end of a workday with just enough energy to watch TV, to gardening?

Everyone I know is doing positive things with this forced paid vacation: taking care of long-overdue paperwork. Gardening (Nurseries can't keep up with demand; seed companies are having a hard time keeping up!) Baking bread. (Flour is in short supply!) Getting the kids to walk the dog. (Seeing it all around the neighborhood!) Fixing the whatever. (Home improvement stores are jammed!) Learning something new. Wearing masks to protect other people. Checking in with family, friends and neighbors to make sure that they're safe and well.

NOT running off to the store or to the casino or on a trip as a form of depression relief, or to scratch an addiction.

And if people don't have anything to do, they aren't looking very hard.

I'm seeing a lot of positive changes, not just negative ones. Yes, there are negative reactions (drinking, drugging, binge-watching. domestic abuse which is often part of drinking) but I think that is with people who were already on a self/destuctive path.

I'll tell you, the only thing I miss is our Friday restaurant outings, just getting out of the house and being in the presence of other people in a new scene. Some people miss church, other people miss their co-workers. My sister and her co-workers gather together outdoors, all masked up, just to chat, once a month.

But we can all get past this stage if we all just MASK UP. It's so simple! What's so hard about THAT?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Sunday, June 14, 2020 1:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6496/1169

Coronavirus rips through Dutch mink farms, triggering culls


Because SARS-CoV-2 isn't real.

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Sunday, June 14, 2020 1:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6496/1169

"Coronavirus rips through Dutch mink farms, triggering culls"

Because SARS-CoV-2 isn't real.
Clearly, the mink have been indoctrinated and are living in fear of Covid-19, with purely psychosomatic symptoms!

Makes sense it would hit mink farms, since they've been using ferrets to study Covid-19. Mink, otters, ferrets, weasels, badgers, martens, and wolverines are all part of the same family.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Sunday, June 14, 2020 1:29 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

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Sunday, June 14, 2020 6:49 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
SIX: Outside of a few staged events, it's not happening. Makes no matter to your life if you watch the news or not.
Whether or not you open Schrodinger's box, the cat is dead.
So just throw the box in the trash bin and don't think about it. Dogs are so much better than cats anyhow.

SIGNY: SIX, how long are you going to persist in the fantasy that it's all "staged" for your inconvenience? Normally you're pretty grounded. It would be a lot more realistic for you to argue whether shutting down the economy is "worth it" than to keep denying that there's a problem.
It's a legitimate question. Nobody should be afraid to discuss it.

SIX: It's not about inconvenience. It's about changing everybody's behavior en masse it seems to be working. Kelly Clarkson just divorced her husband and blamed it on the lockdown. :)


Quote:
"Changing everybody's behavior"

From what, to what?


Sure. Let's pretend that hasn't happened.

Quote:
From eating fatsfood to cooking at home?


I'm sure you're still able to buy soda, twinkies and chips with food stamps. Let's not pretend that anybody is eating any healthier.

Quote:
From packing to kids off to school for mass education indoctrination to homeschooling them?


Are they being homeschooled? I've heard nothing about that. I seriously doubt it in most cases. If you had two parents who had essential jobs, now they needed to find and pay for babysitters for months before summer and who knows if that continues after summer.

Quote:
From learning that you can't stand the person that you married, because you married for stupid reasons?


A lot of marriages work out just fine when people can get away from each other. Being apart is healthy for any relationship, whether it's marriage or family. It's not good for many people to be stuck on top of each other 24/7 for months on end. We can't all have huge houses in the California suburbs. Some people live in apartments or two bedroom houses with 800 sq ft. Keep in mind that for most of us this lockdown was still happening while it was 30 degrees outside too.

Quote:
From hiring some wetback to scrape and paint your house or mow your lawn, to giving your entitled kids a scraper, paintbrush, and mower?


And hiring a maid to watch the kids when two parents have essential jobs and their kids don't have a school to go to?

Quote:
From sinking exhausted on the couch at the end of a workday with just enough energy to watch TV, to gardening?


Or just binge watching TV 16 hours in a day instead of 4.

Quote:
Everyone I know is doing positive things with this forced paid vacation: taking care of long-overdue paperwork.


Good for everyone you know. Again, it was 30 degrees here until recently.

Quote:
Gardening (Nurseries can't keep up with demand; seed companies are having a hard time keeping up!) Baking bread. (Flour is in short supply!) Getting the kids to walk the dog. (Seeing it all around the neighborhood!) Fixing the whatever. (Home improvement stores are jammed!) Learning something new. Wearing masks to protect other people. Checking in with family, friends and neighbors to make sure that they're safe and well.


I think people are jerking you off and making you think they've done a lot better with all that free time than they actually have.

Quote:
NOT running off to the store or to the casino or on a trip as a form of depression relief, or to scratch an addiction.


You don't even have to leave your couch to feed bad habits and addictions.

Quote:
And if people don't have anything to do, they aren't looking very hard.


Okay.

Quote:
I'm seeing a lot of positive changes, not just negative ones. Yes, there are negative reactions (drinking, drugging, binge-watching. domestic abuse which is often part of drinking) but I think that is with people who were already on a self/destuctive path.


You're just full of judgement today, aren't you?

A good deal of Americans had shitty habits, depression and vices before this happened. Why on earth would you think that this would embolden anybody who wasn't already amazing people like you and "everyone YOU know" are to change any of those things on their own? As if being locked down was like waving a magic wand or something.

Quote:
I'll tell you, the only thing I miss is our Friday restaurant outings, just getting out of the house and being in the presence of other people in a new scene. Some people miss church, other people miss their co-workers. My sister and her co-workers gather together outdoors, all masked up, just to chat, once a month.


You shouldn't apply your own experience to everybody else.

Quote:
But we can all get past this stage if we all just MASK UP. It's so simple! What's so hard about THAT?


Never going to happen.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, June 14, 2020 8:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Your anxieties are fueled by your (sane) recognition that there are things larger and more powerful than your ego, which is in truth puny and unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

But for you, your ego is the only thing that matters.

In order to protect your ridiculous view of your own importance, you have to take the (insane) path of denying reality. And for you that means denying things that exist (HIV/ AIDS; global warming; bias against anybody who isn't a white hetero male) or denying that they have any affect on you (government spying; SARS-CoV-2). Denying reality is your only answer.





But mostly, you're boring, with nothing insightful or informative to add to any topic that isn't 'you'.

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Sunday, June 14, 2020 11:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
SIX: Outside of a few staged events, it's not happening. Makes no matter to your life if you watch the news or not.
Whether or not you open Schrodinger's box, the cat is dead.
So just throw the box in the trash bin and don't think about it. Dogs are so much better than cats anyhow.

SIGNY: SIX, how long are you going to persist in the fantasy that it's all "staged" for your inconvenience? Normally you're pretty grounded. It would be a lot more realistic for you to argue whether shutting down the economy is "worth it" than to keep denying that there's a problem.
It's a legitimate question. Nobody should be afraid to discuss it.

SIX: It's not about inconvenience. It's about changing everybody's behavior en masse it seems to be working. Kelly Clarkson just divorced her husband and blamed it on the lockdown. :)

SIGNY: [SIX, you mentioned] "Changing everybody's behavior"
From what, to what?

SIX: Sure. Let's pretend that hasn't happened.
I'm not pretending it "hasn't happened", I'm asking you to clarify IN WHAT WAY HAS BEHAVIOR CHANGED?
It seems you can't even take agreement.

Quote:
SIGNY: From eating fatsfood to cooking at home?

SIX: I'm sure you're still able to buy soda, twinkies and chips with food stamps.
You can't
Quote:
Let's not pretend that anybody is eating any healthier.
I think YOU'RE the one pretending. I go grocery shopping, I see what's in other people's carts. I also noticed what flew off the shelves right away: Meat. Eggs. Canned and frozen vegetables. Cooking oil. Dried beans (STILL in short supply). Cheese.
The chips, soda, candy, and cracker aisles were pretty well-stocked.

Quote:
SIGNY: From packing to kids off to school for mass education indoctrination to homeschooling them?

SIX: Are they being homeschooled? I've heard nothing about that. I seriously doubt it in most cases. If you had two parents who had essential jobs
And just a week ago you were saying that most people have nonessential jobs, so this is a stupid assumption ...
Quote:
, now they needed to find and pay for babysitters for months before summer and who knows if that continues after summer.
But most people are home, and so are their kids. They have to do SOMEthing with them. Schools are saying ... cooking and baking with them counts as math and science!

Quote:
SIGNY: From learning that you can't stand the person that you married, because you married for stupid reasons?

SIX: A lot of marriages work out just fine when people can get away from each other. Being apart is healthy for any relationship, whether it's marriage or family. It's not good for many people to be stuck on top of each other 24/7 for months on end. We can't all have huge houses in the California suburbs. Some people live in apartments or two bedroom houses with 800 sq ft. Keep in mind that for most of us this lockdown was still happening while it was 30 degrees outside too.
Oh boohoo. You're right: it's not good to stay cooped up with the same people day after day. But if a marriage can't handle the stress of too much togetherness, how would it handle something serious, like a big financial blunder, or infidelity, or major illness?

Quote:
SIGNY: From hiring some wetback to scrape and paint your house or mow your lawn, to giving your entitled kids a scraper, paintbrush, and mower?

SIX: And hiring a maid to watch the kids when two parents have essential jobs and their kids don't have a school to go to?
Unlikely because.... your assumption was that "nobody" had essential jobs. Also, people are avoiding new nannies because ... covid.

Quote:
SIGNY: From sinking exhausted on the couch at the end of a workday with just enough energy to watch TV, to gardening?

SIX: Or just binge watching TV 16 hours in a day instead of 4.
I DID mention that as one possible response. Not everyone is going to be self-motivated to do something useful, different, or interesting.

Quote:
SIGNY: Everyone I know is doing positive things with this forced paid vacation: taking care of long-overdue paperwork.

SIX: Good for everyone you know. Again, it was 30 degrees here until recently.
You don't need great weather to tackle your paperwork, clean a house, paint a room, bake bread, or read to your kids. And, you CAN go out and walk, yanno!

Quote:
SIGNY: Gardening (Nurseries can't keep up with demand; seed companies are having a hard time keeping up!) Baking bread. (Flour is in short supply!) Getting the kids to walk the dog. (Seeing it all around the neighborhood!) Fixing the whatever. (Home improvement stores are jammed!) Learning something new. Wearing masks to protect other people. Checking in with family, friends and neighbors to make sure that they're safe and well.

SIX:I think people are jerking you off and making you think they've done a lot better with all that free time than they actually have.
No, YOU'RE jerking me off. I went to the nursery for my veggie garden. I imagined them watching their expenses rise as they watered the plants and waited helplessly for customers. Instead, there was a 15-minute wait on the street just to get into the parking lot, and a 30-minute wait at the checkout line. I told the cashier that I was worried that they wouldn't have any customers and she said Oh that's so sweet! It's been like this since Easter! I guess people don't have anything to do but garden! There was a 30-minute line just to get into Home Depot! We can't get lumber from a nearby lumber warehouse because the demand is so high.

Do you know what was missing in the baking aisle? FLOUR. Just plain, unbleached baking flour. I asked the cashier, and she said that people were all into baking bread. I see kids walking the dogs around my neighborhood. I chat with the neighbors (from a distance) as they garden and paint. I keep up with my friends by text. My sisters, our family, hubby's former co-workers are all tackling projects. We send each other pictures - kind of like the RAIN!!! thread - and encourage and help each other and marvel at the results.

Quote:
SIGNY: NOT running off to the store or to the casino or on a trip as a form of depression relief, or to scratch an addiction.

SIX: You don't even have to leave your couch to feed bad habits and addictions.
It's not like you can mail-order drugs.

Quote:
SIGNY: And if people don't have anything to do, they aren't looking very hard.

SIX: Okay.

SIGNY: I'm seeing a lot of positive changes, not just negative ones. Yes, there are negative reactions (drinking, drugging, binge-watching. domestic abuse which is often part of drinking) but I think that is with people who were already on a self/destructive path.

SIX: You're just full of judgement today, aren't you?
Maybe there are fragile people who have a hard time dealing with the lockdowns, but are they any "healthier" than the old/sick people you would write off to Covid-19?

Quote:
SIX: A good deal of Americans had shitty habits, depression and vices before this happened. Why on earth would you think that this would embolden anybody who wasn't already amazing people like you and "everyone YOU know" are to change any of those things on their own? As if being locked down was like waving a magic wand or something.
Well, maybe they should put on their big-boy pants and deal with reality instead of their inner feelings.

Quote:
SIGNY: I'll tell you, the only thing I miss is our Friday restaurant outings, just getting out of the house and being in the presence of other people in a new scene. Some people miss church, other people miss their co-workers. My sister and her co-workers gather together outdoors, all masked up, just to chat, once a month.

SIX: You shouldn't apply your own experience to everybody else.
And YOU shouldn't apply YOUR experience to everyone.

I acknowledge that there are people who are less resilient than others. Some of them will sink under stress, others will rise.

Quote:
SIGNY: But we can all get past this stage if we all just MASK UP. It's so simple! What's so hard about THAT?

SIX: Never going to happen.
Well, it depends on whether people are realistic about life, or so possessed by their feelings that they can't deal.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Monday, June 15, 2020 9:40 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Your anxieties are fueled by your (sane) recognition that there are things larger and more powerful than your ego, which is in truth puny and unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

But for you, your ego is the only thing that matters.

In order to protect your ridiculous view of your own importance, you have to take the (insane) path of denying reality. And for you that means denying things that exist (HIV/ AIDS; global warming; bias against anybody who isn't a white hetero male) or denying that they have any affect on you (government spying; SARS-CoV-2). Denying reality is your only answer.





But mostly, you're boring, with nothing insightful or informative to add to any topic that isn't 'you'.


When have I said that global warming isn't a thing?

It's part of the global overpopulation problem that The Coomph did nothing at all to resolve, despite the media driven panic.

I said at the beginning of all of this that it reeked of a grand social experiment. I still believe that is the case.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, June 15, 2020 10:21 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


First off, let me just say that I wish we were discussing this on a modern forum, because jeez.... trying to have a conversation like this with anybody is ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
SIX: Outside of a few staged events, it's not happening. Makes no matter to your life if you watch the news or not.
Whether or not you open Schrodinger's box, the cat is dead.
So just throw the box in the trash bin and don't think about it. Dogs are so much better than cats anyhow.

SIGNY: SIX, how long are you going to persist in the fantasy that it's all "staged" for your inconvenience? Normally you're pretty grounded. It would be a lot more realistic for you to argue whether shutting down the economy is "worth it" than to keep denying that there's a problem.
It's a legitimate question. Nobody should be afraid to discuss it.

SIX: It's not about inconvenience. It's about changing everybody's behavior en masse it seems to be working. Kelly Clarkson just divorced her husband and blamed it on the lockdown. :)

SIGNY: [SIX, you mentioned] "Changing everybody's behavior"
From what, to what?

SIX: Sure. Let's pretend that hasn't happened.

SIGNY: I'm not pretending it "hasn't happened", I'm asking you to clarify IN WHAT WAY HAS BEHAVIOR CHANGED?
It seems you can't even take agreement.


How do you clarify EVERYTHING? It's self evident.

I'll just reply with two questions.

1. Do you think that the nationwide rioting in large Democrat ran shitholes would have been anywhere near the degree they are right now had people not been trapped inside their houses for months?

2. Do you think that the acronym CHAZ would be a thing if people had not been trapped inside their houses for months?

Quote:
SIGNY: From eating fatsfood to cooking at home?

SIX: I'm sure you're still able to buy soda, twinkies and chips with food stamps.

Let's not pretend that anybody is eating any healthier.

SIGNY: I think YOU'RE the one pretending. I go grocery shopping, I see what's in other people's carts. I also noticed what flew off the shelves right away: Meat. Eggs. Canned and frozen vegetables. Cooking oil. Dried beans (STILL in short supply). Cheese.
The chips, soda, candy, and cracker aisles were pretty well-stocked.


I never had a problem getting meat, eggs or frozen vegetables. Not once. Milk was as scarce as toilet paper was for a short while.

But that's besides the point. The point is that people who had shitty eating habits before the shutdown occurred still have shitty eating habits now. In fact, the "COVID 15" is a term that is used quite a bit, at least around these parts. They even talk about it on the radio when marketing whatever products they're hawking for losing weight. Bored people tend to eat even worse than when they're not bored.

I'll note: I'm not talking about me. My eating habits were already good and haven't changed at all.

Quote:
SIGNY: From packing to kids off to school for mass education indoctrination to homeschooling them?

SIX: Are they being homeschooled? I've heard nothing about that. I seriously doubt it in most cases. If you had two parents who had essential jobs

SIGNY: And just a week ago you were saying that most people have nonessential jobs, so this is a stupid assumption


Most people do. But a lot of them hadn't been deemed non-essential. Whether they think that's a good thing or not I guess depends on the individual.

Quote:

SIX:, now they needed to find and pay for babysitters for months before summer and who knows if that continues after summer.

SIGNY: But most people are home, and so are their kids. They have to do SOMEthing with them. Schools are saying ... cooking and baking with them counts as math and science!


No. Most people are not home. Maybe most people YOU know are home. Unemployment reached a high of 14.7% in April, and has dropped to 13.3%. I know that unemployment numbers are ALWAYS bullshit and lower than the truth, but that's another discussion for another time. I'm simply comparing the 14.7%/13.3% numbers on record to the 4.4% numbers on record for March.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate

I hope that families that got to stay at home together and take a break from life made the best of their time and not too many of them ended up in divorce or worse. That being said 14.7% does not a "most" make.

Quote:
SIGNY: From learning that you can't stand the person that you married, because you married for stupid reasons?

SIX: A lot of marriages work out just fine when people can get away from each other. Being apart is healthy for any relationship, whether it's marriage or family. It's not good for many people to be stuck on top of each other 24/7 for months on end. We can't all have huge houses in the California suburbs. Some people live in apartments or two bedroom houses with 800 sq ft. Keep in mind that for most of us this lockdown was still happening while it was 30 degrees outside too.

Oh boohoo. You're right: it's not good to stay cooped up with the same people day after day. But if a marriage can't handle the stress of too much togetherness, how would it handle something serious, like a big financial blunder, or infidelity, or major illness?


There you are judging again.

You do realize that a lot of people that stay together right now have already fallen out of love with each other years ago and simply stay together for reasons like "for the kids", or because they know that they would financially destroy themselves and their families by putting their future in the hands of the courts?

Great for you that your relationship worked out. But get off your high horse. That's 50% good planning. But it's also 50% good luck.

Quote:
SIGNY: From hiring some wetback to scrape and paint your house or mow your lawn, to giving your entitled kids a scraper, paintbrush, and mower?

SIX: And hiring a maid to watch the kids when two parents have essential jobs and their kids don't have a school to go to?

SIGNY: Unlikely because.... your assumption was that "nobody" had essential jobs. Also, people are avoiding new nannies because ... covid.


Okay. So they're just inconveniencing the grandparents, brothers/sisters, etc. Or maybe... the "latchkey kid" is coming back? In modern times, my mom would have had DCFS come and take us away for allowing me to basically raise my two younger brothers for 4 hours a day after school, especially considering one of them was severely mentally handicapped and wheelchair bound at the time.

It really does make me wonder how many single parents out there who's jobs were essential and had a few young kids were able to cope with the last few months.

Quote:
SIGNY: From sinking exhausted on the couch at the end of a workday with just enough energy to watch TV, to gardening?

SIX: Or just binge watching TV 16 hours in a day instead of 4.

SIGNY: I DID mention that as one possible response. Not everyone is going to be self-motivated to do something useful, different, or interesting.


My point is that if they weren't self-motivated to do something useful, different or interesting before the shutdown, they very likely weren't motivated to do any of that during the shutdown either. Especially not with all of the shiny rectangles in their houses.

You and I don't have that problem. But we didn't before The Coomph either.


I should point out that you have agreed in the past that just giving free money away doesn't solve any problems and usually just makes them worse. It's no substitute for giving people meaningful jobs, such as directing government funds to infrastructure problems.

Why you seem to do a complete 180 on that during this lockdown is beyond me.

Quote:
SIGNY: Everyone I know is doing positive things with this forced paid vacation: taking care of long-overdue paperwork.

SIX: Good for everyone you know. Again, it was 30 degrees here until recently.

SIGNY: You don't need great weather to tackle your paperwork, clean a house, paint a room, bake bread, or read to your kids. And, you CAN go out and walk, yanno!


Once again, you didn't have that problem before The Coomph, so finding stuff to do was easy during the lockdown.

You do realize that the "self help" industry is like a multi-billion-dollar one, don't you? If people could just flip a switch, nobody would know who Tony Robbins was.

Quote:
SIGNY: Gardening (Nurseries can't keep up with demand; seed companies are having a hard time keeping up!) Baking bread. (Flour is in short supply!) Getting the kids to walk the dog. (Seeing it all around the neighborhood!) Fixing the whatever. (Home improvement stores are jammed!) Learning something new. Wearing masks to protect other people. Checking in with family, friends and neighbors to make sure that they're safe and well.

SIX:I think people are jerking you off and making you think they've done a lot better with all that free time than they actually have.

SIGNY: No, YOU'RE jerking me off. I went to the nursery for my veggie garden. I imagined them watching their expenses rise as they watered the plants and waited helplessly for customers. Instead, there was a 15-minute wait on the street just to get into the parking lot, and a 30-minute wait at the checkout line. I told the cashier that I was worried that they wouldn't have any customers and she said Oh that's so sweet! It's been like this since Easter! I guess people don't have anything to do but garden! There was a 30-minute line just to get into Home Depot! We can't get lumber from a nearby lumber warehouse because the demand is so high.


That has more to do with social distancing becoming the new norm, and limits on the capacity of places that congregate than anything else. Don't conflate longer wait times today with increased activity from previous years.

As far as lumber demand, that's easy to explain away too because shutdowns are gradually ending and people who operate businesses have a backlog of work. My buddy sells windows and after being out for over a month he barely has time to even talk on the phone because he's working 10 to 12 hour days, 6 days a week right now.

Quote:
Do you know what was missing in the baking aisle? FLOUR. Just plain, unbleached baking flour. I asked the cashier, and she said that people were all into baking bread. I see kids walking the dogs around my neighborhood. I chat with the neighbors (from a distance) as they garden and paint. I keep up with my friends by text. My sisters, our family, hubby's former co-workers are all tackling projects. We send each other pictures - kind of like the RAIN!!! thread - and encourage and help each other and marvel at the results.


Awesome. Still, I think you take the weather where you live very much for granted. There's more activity around here now, but it would be impossible to untie that being due to the lockdown ending and the nice weather. Our streets were ghost towns around here until about a month ago.

Quote:
SIGNY: NOT running off to the store or to the casino or on a trip as a form of depression relief, or to scratch an addiction.

SIX: You don't even have to leave your couch to feed bad habits and addictions.

SIGNY: It's not like you can mail-order drugs.


Sure you can. But that's a different discussion.

But outside of that, Liquor stores were never shut down. Online gambling is bigger than ever. Black market drug dealers certainly didn't take a break during the lockdown. Binge watching TV is the new norm for most people and their free time. Eating shit food has been a thing since shit food was invented, and people tend to eat more of it when they're depressed and/or bored.

Quote:
SIGNY: And if people don't have anything to do, they aren't looking very hard.

SIX: Okay.

SIGNY: I'm seeing a lot of positive changes, not just negative ones. Yes, there are negative reactions (drinking, drugging, binge-watching. domestic abuse which is often part of drinking) but I think that is with people who were already on a self/destructive path.

SIX: You're just full of judgement today, aren't you?

SIGNY: Maybe there are fragile people who have a hard time dealing with the lockdowns,


Maybe? There are literally millions of them.

Quote:
but are they any "healthier" than the old/sick people you would write off to Covid-19?


Apples to oranges. Mental health and physical health are completely different subjects.

And death is final. Once somebody dies of The Coomph they're not anybody's problem anymore.

Most people with mental health problems, especially those exacerbated by outside stimulus like the bullshit we've recently gone through are going to live a very, very long time. And their problems usually aren't self contained and end up harming others around them. And if their mental health problems start becoming physical health problems (that usually won't kill them for a very long time afterward), they potentially become a long-term drain on society.

Quote:
SIX: A good deal of Americans had shitty habits, depression and vices before this happened. Why on earth would you think that this would embolden anybody who wasn't already amazing people like you and "everyone YOU know" are to change any of those things on their own? As if being locked down was like waving a magic wand or something.

SIGNY: Well, maybe they should put on their big-boy pants and deal with reality instead of their inner feelings.


I'll point out, once again, that I'm not talking about me. I'm doing great things with my time, and making great use of it. I'm not living my life much different at all than I was before this happened, outside of re-doubling my efforts and making even better use of my free time.

But I'm not sitting in judgement of all the people who are not and/or can not. That is what you are doing.

Quote:
SIGNY: I'll tell you, the only thing I miss is our Friday restaurant outings, just getting out of the house and being in the presence of other people in a new scene. Some people miss church, other people miss their co-workers. My sister and her co-workers gather together outdoors, all masked up, just to chat, once a month.

SIX: You shouldn't apply your own experience to everybody else.

SIGNY: And YOU shouldn't apply YOUR experience to everyone.


Bullshit. You're making up some fantasy land where everybody is better because of the lockdowns and I'm calling you on it.

Personally, my life IS better right now. I'm in the vast minority.

Quote:
I acknowledge that there are people who are less resilient than others. Some of them will sink under stress, others will rise.


Most will sink.

Quote:
SIGNY: But we can all get past this stage if we all just MASK UP. It's so simple! What's so hard about THAT?

SIX: Never going to happen.

SIGNY: Well, it depends on whether people are realistic about life, or so possessed by their feelings that they can't deal.



Seriously, with all due respect, fuck your virus and fuck your mask.

Nobody cares.

I've said everything I needed to say on this topic, and I'm certainly not going to spend the time to break down this conversation again. If you have a single point or maybe two that you'd like to continue to discuss, please feel free. But don't waste your time expanding this novel because it will go ignored.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, June 15, 2020 11:48 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, whatever, SIX. You ran out of real-world thinking and turned into THUGR?

Okie dokie!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Monday, June 15, 2020 2:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


FDA Withdraws Emergency Authorization For Hydroxychloroquine After HHS Official Makes Request


pretty much everywhere, no links required

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Monday, June 15, 2020 3:07 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


As of today, on a per capita basis, the top countries for new COVID-19 cases are, in decreasing order:

Chile
Peru
Brazil
Saudi Arabia
Sweden
http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/

(For the record, the US is 6th.)

YOU SHOW 'EM, SWEDEN !!

Show those dumbfuck poverty stricken and/ or corrupt, and/ or illiterate and/ or backwards countries what a modern western nation can do! Show the US what it can aspire to!


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Monday, June 15, 2020 8:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, whatever, SIX. You ran out of real-world thinking and turned into THUGR?

Okie dokie!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK



There was a lot of thinking in there. That's why I told you I'm not going to spend the time to break down that thought train again, and I warned you that if you did the same yourself I wasn't going to be replying to it again. Most of it was just repetition at this point anyhow.

Feel free to bring up any individual points you want to, but don't cop out and pretend like I didn't just school you.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, June 16, 2020 12:06 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm right! I'm always right! I'm the smartest person in the world! I'm really really REALLY special! The mostest special person in the UNIVERSE! No matter how much stupid crap I post!

fify

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Tuesday, June 16, 2020 11:47 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


DEXAMETHASONE

Quote:
Steroid drug hailed as 'breakthrough' in COVID-19 as trial shows it saves lives
Kate Kelland, Alistair Smout

LONDON (Reuters) - A cheap and widely-used steroid called dexamethasone has become the first drug shown to be able to save lives among COVID-19 patients in what scientists said is a “major breakthrough” in the coronavirus pandemic.

Trial results announced on Tuesday showed dexamethasone, which is used to reduce inflammation in other diseases such as arthritis, reduced death rates by around a third among the most severely ill of COVID-19 patients admitted to hospital.

The results suggest the drug should immediately become standard care in patients with severe cases of the pandemic disease, said the researchers who led the trials.

Britain’s health minister said the state-run health service’s standard hospital treatment for COVID-19 would include the drug from Tuesday afternoon, adding that Britain had stockpiled 200,000 courses of the treatment.

“This is a (trial) result that shows that if patients who have COVID-19 and are on ventilators or are on oxygen are given dexamethasone, it will save lives, and it will do so at a remarkably low cost,” said Martin Landray, an Oxford University professor co-leading the trial, known as the RECOVERY trial.

“It’s going to be very hard for any drug really to replace this, given that for less than 50 pounds ($63.26), you can treat eight patients and save a life,” he said in an online briefing.

His co-lead investigator, Peter Horby, said dexamethasone was “the only drug that’s so far shown to reduce mortality - and it reduces it significantly.”

“It is a major breakthrough,” he said. “Dexamethasone is inexpensive, on the shelf, and can be used immediately to save lives worldwide.”

There are currently no approved treatments or vaccines for COVID-19, the disease caused by the new coronavirus which has killed more than 431,000 people globally.
SAVE LIVES AROUND THE WORLD

England’s chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, said Tuesday’s announcement was “the most important trial result for COVID-19 so far”, adding: “It will save lives around the world”.

The RECOVERY trial compared outcomes of around 2,100 patients who were randomly assigned to get the steroid, with those of around 4,300 patients who did not get it.

The results suggest that one death would be prevented by treatment with dexamethasone among every eight ventilated COVID-19 patients, Landray said, and one death would be prevented among every 25 COVID-19 patients that received the drug and are on oxygen.

Among patients with COVID-19 who did not require respiratory support, there was no benefit from treatment with dexamethasone.
Related Coverage

Dexamethasone trial result most important so far, says English health chief

“The survival benefit is clear and large in those patients who are sick enough to require oxygen treatment, so dexamethasone should now become standard of care in these patients,” Horby said.

The RECOVERY trial was launched in April as a randomised clinical trial to test a range of potential treatments for COVID-19, including low-dose dexamethasone and the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine.

The hydroxychloroquine arm was halted earlier this month after Horby and Landray said results showed it was “useless” at treating COVID-19 patients.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-steroid-idUSKBN2
3N1VP



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

#WEARAMASK

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Tuesday, June 16, 2020 4:35 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Signy, you might be interested in looking at the cities surrounding your city.

http://dashboard.publichealth.lacounty.gov/covid19_surveillance_dashbo
ard/

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Wednesday, June 17, 2020 8:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Signy, you might be interested in looking at the cities surrounding your city.

http://dashboard.publichealth.lacounty.gov/covid19_surveillance_dashbo
ard/


Since May 1, 2020 to June 15, 2020, by my calculations and using officially released numbers, LACounty has been remarkably consistent in its contributions of cases and deaths to California totals.

On May 1, 2020 LACounty contributed 47.7% of California's cases and 55.7% deaths. By June 15, 2020 it contributed 48.9% of California's cases and 57.8% of deaths.

So when news reports read that 'California' cases and deaths are spiking, what they mean is that LACounty cases and deaths are spiking.

What's going wrong?

On May 15 the City of LA and LACounty both required face masks in public.

Whenever I'm out and about in my area I have only twice (cab drivers) seen people without masks. And my area is in the lowest category of per capita infections in LACounty. At the same time, though, chatting with the local Chevron people and the laundromat owner, there is a certain percentage of people who don't wear masks.

But other places are apparently not doing as well. (I apologize for the dearth of links, my search only found one article specifically addressing the topic of masks in LACounty.)
Quote:
Column: Why are so many people not wearing masks? Here's how they explain it https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/column-why-are-so-many-people-not-we
aring-masks-heres-how-they-explain-it/ar-BB15BPhv


Another possible explanation is that LACounty has 30 meat processing/ packing plants https://www.yellowpages.com/los-angeles-ca/meat-packing-plants, with the largest single location being the City of Vernon - which also happens to be in the highest category for per capita infections. These plants have been newsmakers in terms of outbreaks here.
Quote:
L.A. area meat and food processing plants hit by large coronavirus outbreaks
https://www.theeastsiderla.com/news/coronavirus_news/l-a-area-meat-and
-food-processing-plants-hit-by-large-coronavirus-outbreaks/article_fab03294-9ea8-11ea-8101-9bfdfc4fb7ac.html

California city sees COVID-19 outbreaks at 9 facilities, including food processing plants
https://abcnews.go.com/US/california-city-sees-covid-19-outbreaks-faci
lities-including/story?id=70871509


It's also possible that LACounty residents go to unrestricted counties like Orange county, and unrestricted beaches and parks, and bring infections back here where housing is more urban and more crowded.


But if they're been any studies on LACounty, looking deeply into its persistent growth of cases and hospitalizations, I haven't found any.

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Wednesday, June 17, 2020 9:14 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Rising Covid-19 cases and hospitalizations underscore the long road ahead

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/17/rising-covid-19-cases-hospitalizat
ion-long-road/

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