In the garden, and RAIN!!!! by SIGNYM

lol yeah...

If I was in pain doing something stupid or not worthwhile, I wouldn't be smiling.

My knees are shot right now. I can tell I haven't been getting that good workout at the old job when it comes to stuff like this. Dirty, dark, moist work under that floor. Crawling, kneeling and crab walking all day isn't fun. Neither is hoisting myself up and out to the garage every time I need to make a cut, or discover that my cut wasn't spot on (I'm much more careful about my cuts than my friend is and that usually means that I end up having to cut twice).

It's really coming together though. My friend won't be able to help until next week, and my brother can't pick up the plywood anyway until Thursday or Friday, so except for getting the plywood I have until at least Monday to be doing the things that need to be done before the floor finally gets put in.

What a glorious day that is going to be.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, September 24, 2019 11:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I liked Ron White.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Not sure I know who he is.

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Tuesday, September 24, 2019 11:51 PM

Got the pre-birthday blues.

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 12:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I liked Ron White.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Not sure I know who he is.

He's one of the Blue Collar guys. You named two of the four of them, so I thought you were on a Blue Collar kick or something.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 2:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I liked Ron White.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Not sure I know who he is.

He's one of the Blue Collar guys. You named two of the four of them, so I thought you were on a Blue Collar kick or something.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Thanks for telling me. Don't think I realized there was 4 of them. I knew about Larry the Cable Guy.

Not completely on a kick but for some reason their videos came up and I decided to watch them. I have loved Jeff Foxworthy for years since he had a tv show that didn't run very long back in the early 90s, I think. I've got one of his books and his CD, "You Might Be A Redneck."

He just sends me howling as does Jeff Dunham.

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 9:06 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Saw a couple of Blue Collar guys TV shows and laughed my ass off, especially at the plane crash skit. Some pretty dark humor there!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 9:26 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Had a few 90+ days, took time to do some indoor sorting with hubby, now its dear daughter's turn.

Unfortunately for me, I seem to be heading into another bout of joints hurting all over for who knows what reason. I tried a few things that I thought might help (improving quality/quantity of sleep; being very careful about allergenic foods, reducing physical activity) but nothing has helped. May be related to another medication I just started recently. I'm going to go off it for a week and see if it helps. THIS time tho I sent up a couple of flares much earlier in the process, one to my GP and one to my rheumatologist, maybe they can figure out what's going on.

So will continue with sorting and yardwork as best as I'm able, and medical/legal/financial stuff which needs doing but doesn't stress my joints and will be in the "progress on all fronts" mode. No big gains in any one area, but incremental advances in all of them.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 9:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I liked Ron White.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Not sure I know who he is.

He's one of the Blue Collar guys. You named two of the four of them, so I thought you were on a Blue Collar kick or something.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Thanks for telling me. Don't think I realized there was 4 of them. I knew about Larry the Cable Guy.

Not completely on a kick but for some reason their videos came up and I decided to watch them. I have loved Jeff Foxworthy for years since he had a tv show that didn't run very long back in the early 90s, I think. I've got one of his books and his CD, "You Might Be A Redneck."

He just sends me howling as does Jeff Dunham.

No worries.

I never really watched the show myself. Probably caught an episode or two. They weren't really my thing. I'm definitely not a big fan of Larry. Foxworthy comes off as probably one of the nicest guys you'd ever meet though.

I think I only saw one of Ron White's solo comedy specials, but I do remember that I thought it was really funny.

Sorry to hear about your pre-birthday blues.

Not a fan of your birthday, Brenda?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 9:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Saw a couple of Blue Collar guys TV shows and laughed my ass off, especially at the plane crash skit. Some pretty dark humor there!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

lol... They call him "Tater Salad".

Boy... you can tell that was filmed in a different era now. Smoking in one hand and drinking in the other on stage.

I was just thinking about that when I went out to eat with my friend at that bar and did some sober socializing, while we had to go outside to smoke. That bar has an open mic night, and some of the people can play damn near anything and take requests and will let you go up there and sing with them.

I used to karaoke all the time back in the day, but I always had a cigarette or a drink in one hand and the mic in the other.

My ex-girlfriend said I should go up there and sing, but I never sang for an audience sober and I don't imagine I'd ever have the nerve to.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 9:58 AM

My everything hurts today...

More stiff than anything else. I'm going to have to get a real good stretch in today before going back down in the muck. I keep forgetting that I'm 40 now.

Anybody know of a good image hosting site? I'd like to actually put some pictures up here of the work being done, but all my old picture sites have seem to have been defunct as the trend has gone to social media and cloud storage.

I'm hoping I have enough lumber for the job today. Really don't want to have to drop everything to get more at some point. I don't have a clear idea yet of what I'll be doing, but I'm formulating a plan in my head.

The main goals this week before the floor gets put in hopefully next week:

1. Finish my work buttressing up the structure.

2. Decide whether or not I'm going to install a few pylons under there (it would make installing visqueen quite a bit more difficult.

3. Pulling up all the patio pavers and putting them in the hole.

4. Making the hole as flat as possible in prep for the visqueen.

5. Fixing a bad part around the door frame. I don't like my friend's fix for it, and if I decide to put an actual door on there instead of just a screen door like it had before, I'm going to need more support for the weight.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 12:47 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

ah ... karaoke. I never had the nerve to try. But I had a co-worker who was really good. I mean REALLY good ... we were at a restaurant that had karaoke nights for a retirement party. and I thought that the manager had given up on playing kraoke tracks and played a song with the original singers instead. I didn't realize it was **** singing until somebody told me who it was, the song was "Ballroom Blitz" ... NOT an easy song to sing! He said he sang all the time in the car and that was the first time he ever sang in public. Hmmm... possibly you could be just as good?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 12:54 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So when you're talking "pylons" you mean actual cement footings supporting upright wooden posts?

I had to look up "visqueen"! It's a heavy-duty plastic sheet that you intend to put down over the pavers (which will go over the dirt) to make the space cleaner to work in. Correct?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Saw a couple of Blue Collar guys TV shows and laughed my ass off, especially at the plane crash skit. Some pretty dark humor there!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

That was good. I've not seen any of his bits before.

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 1:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I liked Ron White.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Not sure I know who he is.

He's one of the Blue Collar guys. You named two of the four of them, so I thought you were on a Blue Collar kick or something.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Thanks for telling me. Don't think I realized there was 4 of them. I knew about Larry the Cable Guy.

Not completely on a kick but for some reason their videos came up and I decided to watch them. I have loved Jeff Foxworthy for years since he had a tv show that didn't run very long back in the early 90s, I think. I've got one of his books and his CD, "You Might Be A Redneck."

He just sends me howling as does Jeff Dunham.

No worries.

I never really watched the show myself. Probably caught an episode or two. They weren't really my thing. I'm definitely not a big fan of Larry. Foxworthy comes off as probably one of the nicest guys you'd ever meet though.

I think I only saw one of Ron White's solo comedy specials, but I do remember that I thought it was really funny.

Sorry to hear about your pre-birthday blues.

Not a fan of your birthday, Brenda?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Starting to see that guys like that are an acquired taste.

No, I'm not now. I'll be 55 on Sunday and it looks like I will be spending it alone. Someone I play mah jong with talked about going to the casino but then I ran into her and she said that she is busy. She said that twice. So, I will go by myself on Friday.

Just the older I get the harder it gets being on my own.

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 1:04 PM

Off to my chiropractor in a bit. Later peeps.

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 1:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
ah ... karaoke. I never had the nerve to try. But I had a co-worker who was really good. I mean REALLY good ... we were at a restaurant that had karaoke nights for a retirement party. and I thought that the manager had given up on playing kraoke tracks and played a song with the original singers instead. I didn't realize it was **** singing until somebody told me who it was, the song was "Ballroom Blitz" ... NOT an easy song to sing! He said he sang all the time in the car and that was the first time he ever sang in public. Hmmm... possibly you could be just as good?

That's how I was, but I could only do it when I was drunk. Never had a music class after about 6th grade. I can't read or write music. I could just copy songs very well. First time I did it I was at a bar when I was 19 and did Petty's "Mary Jane's Last Dance" and people were buying me drinks and saying I sounded just like Petty. I was hooked for years after that.

There were a few artists outside of Petty that I could do that with. Billy Joel, America, Boston, Soundgarden/Audioslave, Kansas, to name a few.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So when you're talking "pylons" you mean actual cement footings supporting upright wooden posts?

Yep. But if I do it I'm going to spring for the plastic 4x4 posts for the supports. Expensive, but well worth it for that application I think.

Quote:
I had to look up "visqueen"! It's a heavy-duty plastic sheet that you intend to put down over the pavers (which will go over the dirt) to make the space cleaner to work in. Correct?

I'm not doing it to make the work space cleaner, but yeah that's what it is. I'm actually doing it as a moisture barrier.

I was thinking that I wanted to figure out a way to ventilate the hole after the floor was installed, but from what I read online the pros say that if you have vents in your crawlspace you should always have them closed. That's old school thinking and it does nothing but let all the humidity from outside in your house. The proper way to keep moisture out is a visqueen barrier on the floor and going up the walls, sealed tight.

Although it's known that a lot of water was getting in over the years because of the poor construction and stupid design choices, because of the high water table here the dirt was always wet too. Without the barrier it's nothing but a humidity box down there.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 4:09 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Hm. Wax on, wax off. Water in, water out.

That's always been a design conundrum for me. If you try to make a place water tight, there's always the chance that whatever water does get in gets trapped ... cue spooky Halloween music ... foreverrrr.

And by the nature of human efforts, there's always going to be some flaw in the waterproofing, especially because plastic is so hard to seal to other surfaces and is not particularly durable over the long haul. (Even out of the sun things like ozone and nitrogen oxides in the air slowly decompose plastic enough to cause tears at stress points.) That means that, given time (and there's going to be plenty of time before the house gets torn down), that area will be in contact with the moisture/humidity source and will eventually reach equilibrium with it. One thing I might suggest if your dirt is wet enough, is to throw down some dry cement powder over the dirt, so that it cures in place with available moisture. It might have a longer lifespan and better sealing properties than plastic.

Anyway, given that the area will eventually equilibrate with available moisture, the trick I believe is to change the balance of the equation at the moisture source itself, so that there's less moisture available. Unless you have standing ground water, I think you might achieve that with: waterproofing your block foundation (done), grading the dirt away from the foundation, and perhaps laying in a French drain to reduce the overall level of moisture in the grading dirt itself.

The other possibility is to somehow increase the capacity for moisture removal. If your sump pump is in fluid contact with your porch subsurface water, that's one way.

But it seems like you've reached a different conclusion. If you have the time, I'd appreciate your thoughts.

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 4:52 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

plastic four-bys? Hmm... never heard of or seen such a thing! Are they ... um ,,, structurally strong enough? won't bend over time?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 7:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Hm. Wax on, wax off. Water in, water out.

That's always been a design conundrum for me. If you try to make a place water tight, there's always the chance that whatever water does get in gets trapped ... cue spooky Halloween music ... foreverrrr.

lol yeah. Water always finds a way.

Quote:
And by the nature of human efforts, there's always going to be some flaw in the waterproofing, especially because plastic is so hard to seal to other surfaces and is not particularly durable over the long haul. (Even out of the sun things like ozone and nitrogen oxides in the air slowly decompose plastic enough to cause tears at stress points.) That means that, given time (and there's going to be plenty of time before the house gets torn down), that area will be in contact with the moisture/humidity source and will eventually reach equilibrium with it. One thing I might suggest if your dirt is wet enough, is to throw down some dry cement powder over the dirt, so that it cures in place with available moisture. It might have a longer lifespan and better sealing properties than plastic.

Some people have said so to me and feel that I'm just wasting my time and money even bothering with sealing the place. It is quite expensive, even on the thinnest recommended 6mm plastic, and it is not an easy job.

Quote:
Anyway, given that the area will eventually equilibrate with available moisture, the trick I believe is to change the balance of the equation at the moisture source itself, so that there's less moisture available. Unless you have standing ground water, I think you might achieve that with: waterproofing your block foundation (done), grading the dirt away from the foundation, and perhaps laying in a French drain to reduce the overall level of moisture in the grading dirt itself.

Well.. I didn't waterproof the foundation... I'm sure of that. I did a decent job tuckpointing stuff, but the foundation was so bad to begin with that it's really a lost cause without rebuilding the whole place. Also, what I trenched out and re-set was only a few layers down on the south side of the place. That part is really solid now and has tar over it, but it's probably only about 15% of the entire foundation that is actually water tight now.

I have a french drain around the house, although I'm not sure if they extended that around the porch as well. I have no records of the work or when it was done. If it was put in after '79, it's likely all around. If not, I either doubt they put it around the porch and joined it, or if they did they did just as terrible a job as the rest of the porch. That is something worth looking into.

Quote:
The other possibility is to somehow increase the capacity for moisture removal. If your sump pump is in fluid contact with your porch subsurface water, that's one way.

The sump pump is in the crawlspace in the main home, and is separated from the ground water of the crawlspace I'm boxing in when the floor goes down in the porch by good masonry work that has no cracking. (It would probably be a good idea for me to wash that wall while I have access and paint the tar on it before I seal the floor).

But even with the sump and the french drain, the dirt crawl under the house is moist all the time as well. They should never have put a below grade crawl on a floodplain in the first place. The water table is far too high for that. During stormy seasons like we had around here until late June like the last 5 years, that ditch across the street made to remediate water was regularly 6 feet higher than my first floor of my house and the sump pump is constantly running. You could set a clock to it between April and June.

Quote:
But it seems like you've reached a different conclusion. If you have the time, I'd appreciate your thoughts.

In the end, I might just do nothing. I plan on building an access panel to get down there when the floor is put down. Maybe it would be enough to just have that and check up on everything from time to time. If nothing else, if I still feel it's a problem I could put down visqueen later or even put a dehumidifier down there like I have in my house crawl space.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 7:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
plastic four-bys? Hmm... never heard of or seen such a thing! Are they ... um ,,, structurally strong enough? won't bend over time?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

Good question.

Looks like the answer is no, so thanks for asking.

https://hw.menardc.com/main/items/media/BESTP001/Prod_Tech_Spec/BESTP0
01_Benefits_Plastic_Lumber.pdf

There is a company in Minnesota who claims to have finally developed the holy grail of plastic lumber that is stronger and more durable than wood, but who knows if it's even available yet or where to get it.

Plastic wood might be fine for my purposes if I lived somewhere down south where it's warm all year, but it sounds like cold winters are hard on plastics that are commercialy available now. They're fine for water retention and around the garden and will hold up better than even green pressed wood over time when in the soil, and I wish I had thought of using them before I made my replacement steps to the front door, but not a good idea for structural support.

I've got a few long green 4x4's in my garage... maybe around 8' each. I'll just use those.

I think I'm going to do that in leiu of the visqueen for now. I think the vapor barrier for me right now is just an excuse not to put the floor down. I will, however, take the time to grade all of the dirt and rocks flat and put the patio pavers down there. It won't be a moisture barrier, but at least it will all be flat and easier work conditions down the road if I choose to do it in the future.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 9:38 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Ok, so here's a goof on my part and if you feel like laughing at me at the end, feel free!

I give myself allergy shots every week. Not the most fun thing in the world, I tend to "forget" when it's due (fortunately there's flexibility in the schedule; I'm working on catching up after a few weeks of forgetting by a day or two.) It's really not too painful, but it does involve sticking an approx 1" needle into the "saddlebag" area that women have, which requires a little mental fortitude and a couple of deep breaths. (Also, I have epipens at the ready should I have a bad reaction!)

Anyway, after I insert the needle but BEFORE I inject the dose, I'm supposed to pull back on the plunger of the syringe. The reason is that they don't want the dose to be injected directly into a vein because the likelihood of a bad reaction goes up significantly, so if the tip of the needle just happens to land right in a vein and you pull back on the plunger you'll see blood in the syringe, and know not to do the injection.

So after I did all that and pulled out the needle, I saw a little bood in the tip of the syringe, and I was looking at it trying to figure out if that happened before the injection (unlikely, I pull back pretty hard on the plunger) or when I w/drew the syringe and ... I fumbled the syringe, dropped it ... and it speared my baby toe!

Youch!

But, in retrospect, I thought it was pretty funny!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 9:49 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I have done that - given myself allergy injections, that is. The key is a sharp, sharp needle.

In my lifetime I've been a rare blood donor, and am pretty immune to needles going in me. But in various jobs before the one I retired from, I had to jab people, which always caused me much emotional distress. So when it came to giving myself shots, I always wondered which would be stronger - the disinclination to stick people, or the indifference to being stuck. Over the decade or so, it turns out the indifference won out.

It was a point of curiosity.

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 9:52 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

My favorite country singer:

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 10:09 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Plastic wood"

I have plastic/wood decking which is part of my effort to be in the recycling chain. Anyway, it's not 'structural' - it doesn't have a lot of 'dimensional stability' which means it bends, squishes, and twists easily. So structural supports underneath (or vertical supports if you're building a raised bed) need to be closer together. And it itself can't be a structural piece. So it can't be a retaining wall, or joist, for example. It does get very hot in the sun, if that's a concern. One must use specially galvanized screws to install. Also, it's subject to surface mold.

There USED to be a product called Timbersil which sadly had a lot of production problems (I think they never quite figured the process out) that had a lot to recommend it, in theory. Because it was actual lumber infused with silica (glass) after the moisture was removed, it was fire-proof, rot-proof, and bug-proof; drier and so lighter than normal lumber, and stiffer. That attracted my attention, here in earthquake- fire- and termite-prone SoCal. But there were so many bad batches and so many lawsuits, the company went out of business maybe 8 years ago. But if you got a good batch - as one of my co-workers did in a fire-prone mountain area - it was golden.

He gave me a cut-off to test, and we set it right on top of a Meker burner - a very intense lab Bunsen burner that can reach a temperature of up to 2,000–2,200°F - and the cutoff got super-hot. But it never smoldered or even charred after about half hour of intense direct flame exposure.

Timbersil is a good idea whose time should come again.

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 11:03 PM

Kiki, I prefer his son Hank Jr. Hank Sr's voice is too high and twangy for my tastes.

Also Hank Jr. writes funny songs.

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 11:04 PM

Only time I've given someone an injection was my mom and that was a blood thinner. Not sure who it hurt more, me or her.

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Wednesday, September 25, 2019 11:58 PM

Hmmmmmm.... I think I'm going to do the vapor barrier before the floor goes in. The more I think about having an access panel, the more I'm thinking it's not a good idea.

I certainly didn't know what I was getting into when I bought this house. Had there been an easy way to access below when I bought it there's very little chance I would have. Though this structure should be sound for at least 20 years after I'm done, I'm sure that it's not as good as if I were to have had it knocked down or built from scratch the right way from the ground up. It will be solid when it's all sealed up and there won't be any bounce to the floor. I don't think there's any reason to invite problems. The more I think about it too, I think I'm going to keep the windows on the south side of the porch as-is and only remove the louvers in front and put new windows on that side as well.

I'm never going to make this house perfect before I leave. If I can up the curb appeal with the new windows, finish remodeling the basement, put a vanity in the 2nd bathroom and forego putting in a shower down there, put the trim, window frames and closets in the two bedrooms upstairs, re-surface the driveway and put stone down on the patio, I think I can get about $40 to $50k more than I paid for it and walk away happy.

That would mean selling it for around $110,000, when it sold back in 2005 for nearly $150,000.

It would also mean I could skip putting in a new furnace and A/C as well as worrying about remodeling 2 bathrooms and a kitchen.

I'm still going to speak to a real estate agent about how it is right after the porch floor is installed and I level the front porch overhang and see what they think I could get for it right now as-is. I'm thinking that just doing those two things have probably put me well within making $15 to $20k more than I paid for it, since I bought it during the middle of the market crash from a bank.
Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, September 26, 2019 2:21 AM

I've been reading up on vapor barriers for about 3 hours now and I know less than I did before I started.

Not only is there not anything close to a general consensus on a single aspect of how these things should be done, but there's also research saying that a lot of problems are being created by people installing them in climates that don't need them or using the wrong methods.

One site says staple the barrier to the sill, the next says that would be a bad idea because the moisture will wick up the wall and damage the sills and joists. One site says to attach to the wall with butyl tape and anchors several inches below the sill line and let it hang, another says to use construction adhesive and have the plastic glued taught to the entire wall, another says to only cover the ground.

Seriously... what the shit?

I'm beginning to think the best case scenario is that the previous owners who put the plastic down in my house crawl just threw their money away. Worst case scenario, that thing might be causing more damage than it prevents.

I think I'm just going to buy a roll and make sure the dirt is covered and call it a day.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, September 26, 2019 2:32 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Only time I've given someone an injection was my mom and that was a blood thinner. Not sure who it hurt more, me or her.

As the millenials say down here: I feel 'ya on that!

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Thursday, September 26, 2019 2:42 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
]Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I've been reading up on vapor barriers for about 3 hours now and I know less than I did before I started.

Yeah, I think vapor barriers can be a double-edged sword when you put them onto or into structures.

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Thursday, September 26, 2019 2:46 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Did some reading myself, and this makes sense to me

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/what-is-a-vapor-barrier-845075

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Thursday, September 26, 2019 7:07 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

error msg caused me to post twice

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Thursday, September 26, 2019 7:08 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Well.. I didn't waterproof the foundation... I'm sure of that. ... That part is really solid now and has tar over it, but it's probably only about 15% of the entire foundation that is actually water tight now.

Have you considered putting tar on the accessible inside of the foundation? Not digging down to below grade - just tarring the available surface. That leaves any moisture in the blocks picked up from the soil with 2 ways to go: where it contacts the sill plate - which it's going to do anyway, and out through the exterior surfaces. It should reduce evaporation from the foundation blocks to the inside space under the porch at least for some time.

Many articles mention grading, getting gutters and directing the outlets away from and downstream of the foundation, as well as French drains.

The article Signy linked suggest putting plastic down on the dirt, as do other articles I found (and not necessarily sealing it, as it will overall reduce the amount of moisture getting into the air even if some areas leak a bit).

One topic of active debate is foundation vents. I think it all depends on your weather as to whether or not they'll work for you or against you. You can determine that over time by going to weatherunderground.com to get your current dew point, and putting a thermometer in your crawl space to get its current temperature. If more generally over the seasons your crawlspace temp is below the dew point, then outside air moisture coming in through the vents will condense on the crawlspace surfaces and make your problem worse. But if more generally your crawlspace temp is above the dew point, then outside air will evaporate the humidity in the crawlspace (which I'm assuming is somewhere near 100% RH).

https://www.dummies.com/home-garden/home-improvement/basement/preventi
ng-moisture-from-building-up-under-your-home/
https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/4-ways-moisture-enters-vented-craw
l-space
https://todayshomeowner.com/how-to-stop-condensation-in-the-crawl-spac
e-under-your-home/
https://extension.umn.edu/moisture-and-mold-indoors/moisture-basements
-causes-and-solutions
https://fyi.extension.wisc.edu/house/about-the-house/moisture-problems/
https://www.tchd.org/DocumentCenter/View/263/Homeowners-Guide-to-Moist
ure-Management

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Thursday, September 26, 2019 9:45 AM

Well one problem, for the crawlspace inside the home at least, is that I don't have A/C now. For 8 years I haven't. Any decisions on whether the vapor barrier already installed down there is doing good or harm is almost moot when A/C does get installed since it changes the game entirely.

Several years back I left the windows open all summer. I realized this was a mistake because not only were the temperatures in the high 90's inside the house, but the grout joints in the ceramic tile on the floor of the living area of the basement as well as the surface of the plastic were wet. In the crawl on the plastic, it would actually pool up quite a bit in the low spots. Years ago I took the time to bleach that visqueen and had it bright and shiny, it really looks like hell again now, even though I haven't had a flood down there after the fact.

Interestingly, even though I was letting the nighttime humidity in this year by opening the windows and using the blower, I didn't get that water buildup down there as I had in past years. I must have been moving enough air and getting enough of the heat out so it wasn't an issue.

The A/C thing won't be an issue for the porch enclosure since it would never benefit from it.

As for putting tar on the inside, I could do that, but that's really no different than attaching visqueen to the walls in effect and it's part of the concern I have here. Except for the area that I had trenched out and sealed with tar and above it, the only areas outside that will have tar are the exposed bricks above grade, but we are talking about sealing both sides of the wall. I'm not sure how much evaporation will occur to the outside through the earth, particularly when it's nearly 100% saturated as has happened with these rain storms.

I can't imagine it's good to have the water building up anywhere inside, but since it seems inevitable because the ground will always get wet, it's probably better that it's dispersed everywhere down there than focused right underneath the sill and joists ends resting on it, which was the most damaged part of the structure by far. (I can't attribute that to vapor, or at least JUST to vapor though, because I know that there was a lot of leaking liquid water damage that was to blame for that).

From what I read, vents probably aren't good around me since there will be no A/C or dehumidifier down there. This summer we were frequently around 80 to 95% humidity around here. The vents would just let that all in.

At this point, I'm realizing what a mistake I made not to put up gutters earlier, and it's tops on my priority list after getting the floor down. Then I can properly grade dirt away from the foundation once I don't have hard lines in the ground where the rainwater fell off the roof directly onto the ground for the last 8 to 10 years because of no gutters.

I think I really can only roll the dice here. Gutters, grading and a visqueen barrier on the dirt in the porch crawl. Nothing more, nothing less.

I might also consider removing the visqueen from the walls in the house crawl at some point too now that I know a bit more about all of this. Sometime this winter I'll have to clean the plastic in the crawl to make it sparkly white again and then monitor the moisture come spring/summer time next year.

Any thoughts on that plan of attack?

Thanks for looking into it. Seems you two found what I was finding on the topic.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, September 26, 2019 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Only time I've given someone an injection was my mom and that was a blood thinner. Not sure who it hurt more, me or her.
As the millenials say down here: I feel 'ya on that!

Yeah, I did not want to be put in charge of that but the nurses that came in to check on her insisted.

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Thursday, September 26, 2019 12:44 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Hey Jack

It sounds like you've reduced your under-porch considerations to plastic on the dirt under the porch, no sealing, stapling, attaching to anything, or covering anything else with anything else. Or vents or anything. PHEW! I think it simplifies it down to useful and diy-friendly. Reading through all your posts though - do you have water problems! If it's not coming up from below, it's falling down from above, splashing sideways, or humidifying in with the outside heavy air. Originally I'm from the NE, and I thought WE had water issues with a flooded yard and basement. But your place beats anything I'm familiar with.

Out of curiosity - do you all have storm sewers in your area?

As for your house crawlspace ... I dunno ... do you have proof of a problem? Weeping areas, mold or mildew or mushrooms growing behind the visqueen, efflorescence on the cinder blocks, stained(water-exposed) wood, or so on? If things seem OK then maybe you can let them be ...

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Thursday, September 26, 2019 3:13 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Yeah, you have surface water, possibly groundwter problems and a potential condensation problem as well. And that doesn't include snow potentially piling up against your (above grade) vents.

The article that I linked made it clear that you have to consider where the most moisture is coming from (from the inside like a bathroom, from the outside like rain/snow, or from the ground?) and also that you should nevereverever vapor-barrier both the inside and outside of a structure, because while you want to keep water from getting in, you also need to provide a way for it to get out.

Just as an aside ... curiously, it's important for outdoor paint to be able to repel liquid water and still pass water vapor. (There are ASTM tests for that!) Having read up on the topic, now I know why.

You say the most damage was the sill plate and presumably the ends of the joists resting on the sill. Since the sill is resting on the foundation, is seems as if the problem is water wicking up from the ground thru the concrete to the wood. If the problem was overall humidity, I would imagine that you would see mold across most of the lenght of each joist.

So the issue is to keep the concrete as dry as possible, not necessarily be concerned with reducing humidity in the crawlspace. What you would need to do that depends on your situation.

IF your soil is more-or-less permanently saturated with water below the surface because there's an underground stream running under your house, that would take drastic and difficult remediation: digging up the entire foundation, installing a French drain AND a sump pump, and tarring the entire outside of the foundation. Even then, you probably wouldn't be entirely successful because the sump pump would be constantly working to pump out the space that was being constantly refilled by the underground stream. Fortunately, while very high water tables do sometimes happen, it's rare. Unless you live near a swamp, or there are seeps and springs nearby indicating water burbling up from the ground, that's unlikely to be your situation. Since your sump pump seems to come on only during rainstorms or snowmelts, what you probably have is a surface water problem.

Another fix would be to block water in the concrete from wicking up into the wood ... put a waterproof barrier between the concrete and the sill and joists. Difficult, since those are already in place.

So assuming that your problem is surface water, the best fix is to lead water as far away as possible from your foundation, and downhill, before it soaks into the ground.

Your first order of business, I think, it to fix the sump pump outflow (if it hasn't already been fixed) because it's dumping water right back to the foundation and on the uphill side, if I understand you right.

Your next order of business is to grade your yard so that water flows away from the house before it can soak in (much), and your third order of business is to install gutters, downspouts and splashboxes (or whatever theyre called there) which are long enough to .. once again... lead water away from the house.

IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY DECIDED TO DO.

*****

The reason why I bring up stories from my hometown ... the flooded cellars, the collapsing cellar war ... is to illustrate that even in situation where there is every reason to suspect a high water table (western NY is flat marshy land, underlain with layers of clay which retain water right under the surface, and always at risk of flooding) all of the problems I've even seen or experienced were NEVER with a high water table. So I hope this give you some info on how to judge your situation. Hope this helps.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Thursday, September 26, 2019 7:03 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Well the city finally took down the four yuge dead liquidambar trees next to the restaurant parking lot where I sometimes go for coffee. They were pretty trees and provided really nice shade for the parked cars in summer. But as eastern water-thirsty natives that grow near streams and marshes, they were a poor choice for SoCal.

Still they hung in there through years and years of extreme drought and high temps. But for some reason 2 of the four finally totally succumbed after a winter of good rain, and the other 2 were mostly gone.

There's nothing left but dirt mixed with wood chips, not even left-over holes, so I think they used stump grinders to get rid of the very last of them and filled-in with the mix of ground-out stump and dirt.

I was sorry to see them die so slowly over all that time. I kept hoping that we'd get some good rain to rescue them.

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Thursday, September 26, 2019 9:41 PM

Back from work and boy am I glad.

My boss' husband didn't think that I was supposed to be there today. He didn't want to let me into the house. They don't actually talk to each other.

Wasn't surprised that they didn't realize that Sunday was my birthday. They've promised me supper out next Thursday, so we shall see.

I don't know what to make of those two sometimes. Actually most of the time.

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Thursday, September 26, 2019 11:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Hey Jack

It sounds like you've reduced your under-porch considerations to plastic on the dirt under the porch, no sealing, stapling, attaching to anything, or covering anything else with anything else. Or vents or anything. PHEW! I think it simplifies it down to useful and diy-friendly. Reading through all your posts though - do you have water problems! If it's not coming up from below, it's falling down from above, splashing sideways, or humidifying in with the outside heavy air. Originally I'm from the NE, and I thought WE had water issues with a flooded yard and basement. But your place beats anything I'm familiar with.

Yes. The bank that sold it to me did me dirty.

Not really. It was my fault. Buying with cash I thought I did my due dilligance by looking at the property tax card that said it wasn't a floodplain. It wasn't until after I was here and was fighting my property taxes that I learned about FEMA flood maps.

Whoopsie.

For the most part my basement doesn't flood at all. It's only done it twice, both times when the sump pump failed. I have a generator in case the power goes out. I'm going to get a battery backup and a 2nd well installed for it before I remodel the basement. Should be flood free then.

Quote:
Out of curiosity - do you all have storm sewers in your area?

Yeah. They work good.

Quote:
As for your house crawlspace ... I dunno ... do you have proof of a problem? Weeping areas, mold or mildew or mushrooms growing behind the visqueen, efflorescence on the cinder blocks, stained(water-exposed) wood, or so on? If things seem OK then maybe you can let them be ...

Other than the standing water that I saw years ago when I left all the windows open 24/7 and it was in the high 90's in my house for about a month, no. Wood is good. No mold or mildew that I can see, and I was just down there about a month ago checking all the perimeter wood for any ant damage. It does have a funky smell down in the basement though. I hope once I put all the drywall back up and put a door to the crawlspace that I can keep the smell out of the rest of the basement.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, September 26, 2019 11:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yeah, you have surface water, possibly groundwter problems and a potential condensation problem as well. And that doesn't include snow potentially piling up against your (above grade) vents.

There aren't any vents.

I was considering installing them, until I read that in my climate it's not good to have them. The condensation probably won't be a problem if I get proper A/C installed.

Quote:
The article that I linked made it clear that you have to consider where the most moisture is coming from (from the inside like a bathroom, from the outside like rain/snow, or from the ground?) and also that you should nevereverever vapor-barrier both the inside and outside of a structure, because while you want to keep water from getting in, you also need to provide a way for it to get out.

I'd say the water in the house is from the ground. If that sump isn't running between April and June on your average spring around here, my basement would have 3 feet of water in it after just a few days of being without it.

Quote:
Just as an aside ... curiously, it's important for outdoor paint to be able to repel liquid water and still pass water vapor. (There are ASTM tests for that!) Having read up on the topic, now I know why.

Yeah. I read that too. But thanks for letting me know.

Quote:
You say the most damage was the sill plate and presumably the ends of the joists resting on the sill. Since the sill is resting on the foundation, is seems as if the problem is water wicking up from the ground thru the concrete to the wood. If the problem was overall humidity, I would imagine that you would see mold across most of the lenght of each joist.

Well see, here's the thing. I don't have any issues like this in the main house, even though I know that humidity is a problem in the main house.

I really think that a vast majority of this damage was caused by the shitty original construction of this 3 season add-on (20 years after the house was built), and the shitty "fix" somebody had obviously done when (I can only assume) the floor had caved in previously.

There is no mold in the porch crawl space. Like none. It doesn't smell bad at all.

The damage is mainly on the sill plates and the joists, like you said, but it's strictly wood rot and carpenter ant damage. No mold.

The windows that were installed in the front of the porch were built into the house, and the back of the window sills graded into the house under the louvers (which were installed where the goddamned windows should be). Even without gutters, there is an 18" overhang on the roof, and the louvers are big. I just had thunderstorms the other day and the sill didn't even have a drop of rain on it. This was built fine for rain, but the problem is the snowdrifts in the winter that built up under the louvers, melted, then went through the shit windows, behind the cedar paneling, onto the plywood floor, under the wall frame and all over the joists, sill and outside joists. Wood rot set in and then the ants came and finished the job.

On the back of the house, the damage since I've owned the place is my fault, although I don't know how much damage had occured before I moved in. The screen door was hollowed out on the bottom and was absolute crap. I could push my hand through it when the door was closed. And although I "fixed" the back windows and re-painted them when I first moved in, I didn't think to grade them away from the house so after years went by I let it all rot out again and let water in. The threshold under the damaged screen door was a hack job and had about a tube of caulk building it up and I never replaced it. The crappy steps that lead up to the house that rotted out was right up against the damaged screen door, and I never shoveled snow off of it, so it all melted in the bad door and ruined the back half.

Quote:
So the issue is to keep the concrete as dry as possible, not necessarily be concerned with reducing humidity in the crawlspace. What you would need to do that depends on your situation.

IF your soil is more-or-less permanently saturated with water below the surface because there's an underground stream running under your house, that would take drastic and difficult remediation: digging up the entire foundation, installing a French drain AND a sump pump, and tarring the entire outside of the foundation. Even then, you probably wouldn't be entirely successful because the sump pump would be constantly working to pump out the space that was being constantly refilled by the underground stream. Fortunately, while very high water tables do sometimes happen, it's rare. Unless you live near a swamp, or there are seeps and springs nearby indicating water burbling up from the ground, that's unlikely to be your situation. Since your sump pump seems to come on only during rainstorms or snowmelts, what you probably have is a surface water problem.

I have a sump and a french drain. I'm just not sure if the french drain extends around the 3 season porch or not, although I did hit a lot of smaller rocks around 1 foot beneath the surface when I trenched out the mud to fix the cinderblock wall. The water is only high during these rainy springs. If I went down to my sump right now, even though it rained heavily 2 days ago, I bet it's near empty.

Quote:
Another fix would be to block water in the concrete from wicking up into the wood ... put a waterproof barrier between the concrete and the sill and joists. Difficult, since those are already in place.

Yeah.... I was thinking about that last night. Difficult, but maybe not impossible. I just wouldn't want to do it with only one jack. Maybe I'll see if my friend will let me borrow both of his and see if I can jack up each side of the porch one at a time just enough to get some visqueen under the sills. From what I read there would be no harm in doing that.

Quote:
So assuming that your problem is surface water, the best fix is to lead water as far away as possible from your foundation, and downhill, before it soaks into the ground.

Your first order of business, I think, it to fix the sump pump outflow (if it hasn't already been fixed) because it's dumping water right back to the foundation and on the uphill side, if I understand you right.

Yup. I still haven't fixed that. The floor will be in soon though, so I'm not going to worry about being spotted by the city and worry about them poking around if they see me doing plumbing. I know I'm paranoid about that, but until that floor is in, I don't want to be doing anything outside that will draw attention. It should be fixed in a few weeks.

Quote:
Your next order of business is to grade your yard so that water flows away from the house before it can soak in (much),

It is graded fairly well, but honestly the lack of gutters and all that rain falling off of the roof to the ground has moved things around. I will fix that as soon as the gutters are in.

Quote:
and your third order of business is to install gutters, downspouts and splashboxes (or whatever theyre called there) which are long enough to .. once again... lead water away from the house.

IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY DECIDED TO DO.

*****

Quote:
The reason why I bring up stories from my hometown ... the flooded cellars, the collapsing cellar war ... is to illustrate that even in situation where there is every reason to suspect a high water table (western NY is flat marshy land, underlain with layers of clay which retain water right under the surface, and always at risk of flooding) all of the problems I've even seen or experienced were NEVER with a high water table. So I hope this give you some info on how to judge your situation. Hope this helps.

Yeah. I probably shouldn't say that I have a high water table. I have no reason to think there's an actual spring under my house or anything. Saying I have a high water table without knowing what I'm really talking about is like trying to self diagnose cancer using WebMD.

Thanks again to both of you for your suggestions and research.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, September 27, 2019 12:00 AM

So I can finally cross two things off my list. Got the second coat of paint on the columns on the front porch and the windows on the back. They were all caulked and sealed and graded away from the house this time. With 2 coats of primer underneath, that should last me a while this time hopefully.

Once again, until I put pictures up, it would be hard for me to explain the awesome work I did in the porch today. The two pieces of plywood flooring up against the house were good and weren't removed, although I did have to replace 29" of sill the other day. The joists themselves are fine on the back end, but were a little sketchy on the front end where I replaced the sill.

So I jacked it all up again and installed new 2x8's on the two compromised joists. Unlike the rest of the porch, these joists closest to the house were only 2x8. I'm assuming these were original construction and the notched 2x12's in the rest of the place were all put in when they "fixed" the original problem.

I've got a 2x4 in the middle of the floor installed from below now, and tied into the existing and the new 2x8's with 3" coated screws. Tomorrow I will be making plates to fit tight into these under the flooring so this side of the house has the exact same support in the middle that the exposed joists have (that I did last week).

So... after all of that, and after throwing a few 4x4 sheets of 3/4" plywood I had on the new joists, I spent a good deal of time jumping around for all I was worth everywhere that I had a floor over the joists.

It didn't budge.

Not a creak, not a pop... no more "trampoline" effect. This thing is rock solid now.

I think between lumber, tools, the visqueen on order, screws and nails, I'm about $400 into this now. Money well spent. :)

I'm going to double up on the plywood floor again, so that's going to run me another $225 or so.

Eventually, I'll get those windows and a new storm door. With the additional framing lumber I'll need as well as some new vinyl siding and aluminum flashing, that will probably run me about $1400-$1500.

Seriously... with how much work will be done here, that's a steal. I don't even want to think about what somebody would have charged me to do all of this.

I probably added $30,000 to $40,000 to what I could have expected to get for the house when this is done VS dumping the house for cash with a huge hole in the porch floor. I'm going to assume that I'm adding another $5,000 to the house on curb appeal alone by removing those god awful louvers and putting real windows in the front.

Can't wait till that floor is finally in!

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, September 27, 2019 12:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Back from work and boy am I glad.

My boss' husband didn't think that I was supposed to be there today. He didn't want to let me into the house. They don't actually talk to each other.

Wasn't surprised that they didn't realize that Sunday was my birthday. They've promised me supper out next Thursday, so we shall see.

I don't know what to make of those two sometimes. Actually most of the time.

Sounds like the most awkward dinner ever.

Do they at least pretend to like each other when company is over?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, September 27, 2019 12:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Well the city finally took down the four yuge dead liquidambar trees next to the restaurant parking lot where I sometimes go for coffee. They were pretty trees and provided really nice shade for the parked cars in summer. But as eastern water-thirsty natives that grow near streams and marshes, they were a poor choice for SoCal.

Still they hung in there through years and years of extreme drought and high temps. But for some reason 2 of the four finally totally succumbed after a winter of good rain, and the other 2 were mostly gone.

There's nothing left but dirt mixed with wood chips, not even left-over holes, so I think they used stump grinders to get rid of the very last of them and filled-in with the mix of ground-out stump and dirt.

I was sorry to see them die so slowly over all that time. I kept hoping that we'd get some good rain to rescue them.

Bummer about the trees.

Wish I could borrow the stump grinder though.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, September 27, 2019 2:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Back from work and boy am I glad.

My boss' husband didn't think that I was supposed to be there today. He didn't want to let me into the house. They don't actually talk to each other.

Wasn't surprised that they didn't realize that Sunday was my birthday. They've promised me supper out next Thursday, so we shall see.

I don't know what to make of those two sometimes. Actually most of the time.

Sounds like the most awkward dinner ever.

Do they at least pretend to like each other when company is over?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

It probably will be. Any time I have dinner with them can be a little strange.

Supposedly they are deeply in love with each other but I do wonder.

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Friday, September 27, 2019 9:22 AM

Maybe they just took a distaste for PDA to the extreme.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, September 27, 2019 11:25 AM

Brother is coming over now so we can get the plywood.

Got a message that the visqueen should be here by the 4th. I've still got a lot to do before the flooring goes in, but we're getting to the end of it now. I should have everything done and ready for plastic when it comes. I may or may not wait until my friend comes to put the floor down. It would be easier with 2 people for sure, but I could do that on my own if I need to and I'm not going to wait on it.

Although... I will need to rip some pieces, and that's probably not the safest or easiest thing to do solo. Maybe I'll just put some full sheets in and see how it goes from there. I'd rather use the table saw than the skilsaw for perfect cuts, and it's not easy for one person.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, September 27, 2019 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Maybe they just took a distaste for PDA to the extreme.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I have no idea Jack.

Another example yesterday was the third time that I have asked them not to walk away from me when I am talking because I am still having some problems with my hearing aides. Heck, I even said please and added I would appreciate it. My boss made all the right noises and then asked her husband if he heard what I said and he said yes. Then went on to say that he has to repeat himself to my boss.

What gets me is that these are two professional people. The husband is a retired math teacher/preacher and she is still a doctor. If their hearing is getting that bad then she shouldn't be working anymore or they both should be investing in some hearing aides!

So anywho, I am not going to say another word about it as there is no point to it.

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Friday, September 27, 2019 12:33 PM