REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

In the garden, and RAIN!!!!

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Saturday, May 28, 2022 19:26
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Saturday, May 15, 2021 1:01 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
A couple ideas I forgot to mention:

tether bias
I didn't know if I had explained the zip tie option well enough, so I didn't include this part.
It may be better to, for now, let out another 5" of cord through the cord clamp - and then zip tie that cord 5" down the side pf the pump, the zip tie encirling the pump (unless there is something down there to attach to.) The biggest benefit to this is the downward bias of the float range. the bottom of the range will be very easy for the float to hang straight down (and be a precise depth, not much inconsistency). But when full, the cord will be more resistant to bending upward - thus giving you a range bias toward deeper "Pump Off" level.
Because I don't know how stiff your cord is (seems replacement tether floats can be bought separately), it may be a little better to use 2 zip tie points about 4" and 5" from the top of pump, allowing the cord to run 45 degrees diagonally before dropping out of the bottom zip tie. This still makes the drop down float position very easy and reliable, but when the cord is flexing away from the pump it has little danger of extending out to the wall of the well.

And if there is any crap that the float might hang up on, put a thin hard plastic piece on that portion of the pump casing, zip ties around the pump to hold it in place. That plastic: think of those cheap 3-ring binders with flimsy plastic covers. I get those called "shelf liners" or drawer liners, or "disposable cutting boards"

I'll ask you any questions I have when I'm ready to do it. I think I'll have to print this out and then think about it when I'm down there looking at it.




Quote:

I have no idea WHERE you got that idea. My range, with threaded rod, has a stroke of at least a foot. I think it might be 15". The only limitations for threaded rod are the total depth of the well, and the length of threaded rod - and that can easily be replaced with longer. The longer strode/duty cycle, the less stress on your pump/motor. Yours is being overworked at this point, without much to show for it.
Well you're talking about a 3rd type of pump I haven't seen yet then. The vertical pumps I've seen all have a fixed and very small window. Most will say right on the box the window, and I've only ever seen 5".


Hey, took a while to find, but I found out my sump pump style is called a Pedestal sump pump.
Looks like one called Ecoflo has the rod passing through the top of the switch, like mine.
see if you can look at that and see how easy you can adjust for 24" if your well was that deep.
1/3 hp for $73 I see, and mine works great.
If you do decide to use this type, let me know for some installation tips.
This type does not have the motor submerged, the motor is well above water level.

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 3:22 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Hey, thanks for your answers and pix! It helps clear up what's connected to what.

Quote:

Then there are the unknowns. I had a neighbor who built a garage off the alley on a very, very old property - as old as mine. He wanted to have water facilities in his garage, but when installing the waste lines they discovered that he had no hook-up to the sewer system at all! Unbeknownst to anyone, he had an old septic tank instead.
Quote:

Wow. World's biggest septic tank? Or did he just buy the property.
No, he'd been there a while, as had the people before him and the people before him and the people ... many properties in my neighborhood go back to before indoor plumbing (and before the lots were subdivided into city-sized parcels, it was pretty rural. So you'll see 100+ yr old properties widely scattered, with much post-WWII infill.). And his, like mine, was one of the original very old houses.

First there were the original scattered rural properties. Then came the streets. Then came city water, later city sewer systems. Then came the subdivisions. After that came the alleys, for garage access, since the lots are so narrow and the houses were centered on them, there was no room for driveways along the edge of the properties for access from the street. But that was on a block-by-block basis, since people had to agree to given up some of their property for the alleys. So almost all blocks have alleys, but one doesn't in my immediate neighborhood. Much later sidewalks were installed. But that was also per agreement where owners gave up certain amounts of their property. And since CA law only requires sidewalks on one side of the street, there are many blocks without sidewalks. So the very old neighborhood has undergone many revisions in 100+ years.

At some point the old properties were supposed to be tied into the city sewer system. But they must have excepted that house for some reason. And apparently there were no records from back then. When that owner left or died, the knowledge that the house was still on a septic tank went with him or her. So the city - and everyone else - just assumed that that house, like the other old houses, had been tied in.

And for all I know, mine also doesn't connect to the sewer system! I've never checked. And old houses can be full of surprises.

Anyway, since the guy had been paying a sewer fee all those years, he asked for a refund from the city.

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 3:33 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Hey Brenda - yeah, crows can be very ... uhmm ... determined. So can red-wing blackbirds. I used to go out to a horse property near a wilder area and razz the blackbirds to get them to dive-bomb me. But when you're just walking along and a crow starts up - that sounds creepy.

Anyway - have a good night.






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Saturday, May 15, 2021 10:42 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'll look for the hose. connection is easy. the condensate pump usually has a vertical connection sticking up vertically, might look kinda like a barb. this flexi-hose just slides right on, as long as you have the size the fitting is made for. I don't think it is a Legris Fitting, but connects just as easy. removing it is not easy, the one time i tried it. using a dual-barbed fitting from the plumbing dept joins the end of one hose to the next, to infinity.



the hose. i found it on home deot site, but they didn't show a nice cute item number, nor any pricing.

they call it clear vinyl tubing or hose, 3/8" inside diam (but check the fitting size on the pump you'll use). brand names were UDP and hydromaxx. you don't need the reinforced or braided. can you find a price(s)?

supplyhouse.com seems to have it about half the price for 100' - under $14. compared to HD. saw that lowes had it too, and various lengths of 10', 20', 50'.

don't know if this will work:
www.homedepot.com/p/udp-3-8-in-i-d-x-1-2-in-o-d-x-100-ft-clear-

this works for a search:
product number 304185196
then scroll down to "frequently bought together"
they have a bunch of options. can't see if everbilt is cheaper in the 100'.

h

eta: hey, if you get that condensate pump (or use the one you have), run the tubing over to your bathroom, tape it up so it just pours into your toilet, and then hold the condensate pump in your hand, slowly lower it into the sump well surface, when it kicks on just keep holding it just so the water is flowing into the condensate tank, and keep slowly lowering it until it's at the bottom. i really think that would be very easy. a sump pump would be hard to hold, but those condensate pumps can be held like that with one hand while running. I think just don't submerge the thing, the top is where the pump motor is. when no more water is flowing inside that little tank, the pump stops running, so you could set it aside while doing more work.





Thanks for that.

Do you know if it's possible to add a hose like this to a submersible sump pump with a coupler?

I'm not going to be making up my mind about buying any new pumps for a while now. I think the first step is to get down there and experiment with getting the existing one down the level it needs to be.

But since I probably will be buying a new pump for peace of mind once I get everything set up and working proper, I will still two backup submersibles (the filthy one down there now, and the untested one that's been sitting in a box for 5 or 6 years).

If I had a way to set that up where I could quickly feed a tube through a window and plug it in, that would save me in the event that mine broke or the city sewer went down again.


Quote:

Hey, took a while to find, but I found out my sump pump style is called a Pedestal sump pump.
Looks like one called Ecoflo has the rod passing through the top of the switch, like mine.
see if you can look at that and see how easy you can adjust for 24" if your well was that deep.
1/3 hp for $73 I see, and mine works great.
If you do decide to use this type, let me know for some installation tips.
This type does not have the motor submerged, the motor is well above water level.



Okay, that makes sense that you have a pedestal pump and you can get all of that range.

I knew about those, but I wasn't thinking about a pedestal pump at all because it's not recommended in heavy rainfall / flooding areas since it can't pump out water as fast as it's coming in. At least that's what I've read online about them.




I did some calculations last night. They're rough since I didn't have exact times to the second and might have even been off a minute when I recorded time between pumps, and they'd get even less accurate as the days went by and I made less recordings.

Plus, since the last pump at night wasn't always recorded close to midnight or even consistent it causes some problems (usually between 9 and 11:30PM).

I used some calculations in excel to try to fill in the gaps between tests. They're pretty basic, and not precision algorithms, but it gives some good data.

Last Sunday, starting at 8:30AM is when I did my first time, and it wasn't until the time between 11:55AM and 1:20PM that the cycles got further apart. (It stopped raining maybe around 10:30AM)

The first day it went off 119 times.

The second day it went off 83 times. (70% of the day prior)

The third day it went off 68 times. (81% of the day prior)

The fourth day it went off 43 times. (63% of the day prior)
NOTE: I believe these discrepancies were caused because of no process properly handling transitions from one day to the next, and the varying time of the final measurement from day to day. These last two were the biggest example of how that function could use some updating.

The fifth day it went off 32 times. (75% of the day prior)

The sixth day it went off 24 times. (75 % of the day prior)

Not enough data to do today yet. I only have one reading with the cycle that ended at 12:15AM, which was 64 minutes and 16 seconds.

The average drop saw the pump cycling the following day 73% as much as it had the day before.



We might not actually get any new good data today. It's gotten so far apart that it becomes a chore to sit around and wait for it. I'm sure it's gone off since I woke up, but I already haven't been around to hear it when it did. There's a very good chance of rain today, so the numbers will probably go back the wrong way. Not a huge amount of rain though, and the drain pipes are now installed, so maybe it doesn't.

If it does rain, I'd probably be getting to a new measurement late at night when I settle in and it will be altered by the new rainfall.

At least I should be able to go out to my garage and see the drains in action.


--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 10:53 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Hey, thanks for your answers and pix! It helps clear up what's connected to what.



No worries. It's helping me out too to look at things like this. I've been down there quite a bit over the years, but if you'd asked me to explain the system by memory a week ago it wouldn't have reflected reality at all.

Quote:

No, he'd been there a while, as had the people before him and the people before him and the people ... many properties in my neighborhood go back to before indoor plumbing (and before the lots were subdivided into city-sized parcels, it was pretty rural. So you'll see 100+ yr old properties widely scattered, with much post-WWII infill.). And his, like mine, was one of the original very old houses.

First there were the original scattered rural properties. Then came the streets. Then came city water, later city sewer systems. Then came the subdivisions. After that came the alleys, for garage access, since the lots are so narrow and the houses were centered on them, there was no room for driveways along the edge of the properties for access from the street. But that was on a block-by-block basis, since people had to agree to given up some of their property for the alleys. So almost all blocks have alleys, but one doesn't in my immediate neighborhood. Much later sidewalks were installed. But that was also per agreement where owners gave up certain amounts of their property. And since CA law only requires sidewalks on one side of the street, there are many blocks without sidewalks. So the very old neighborhood has undergone many revisions in 100+ years.

At some point the old properties were supposed to be tied into the city sewer system. But they must have excepted that house for some reason. And apparently there were no records from back then. When that owner left or died, the knowledge that the house was still on a septic tank went with him or her. So the city - and everyone else - just assumed that that house, like the other old houses, had been tied in.

And for all I know, mine also doesn't connect to the sewer system! I've never checked. And old houses can be full of surprises.

Anyway, since the guy had been paying a sewer fee all those years, he asked for a refund from the city.



Wow. That's rough.

I can't believe it didn't stop working in that time and he hadn't figured it out a lot earlier. I'm no expert, but don't you have to have that thing drained out? I thought it had to be emptied fairly frequently.



You're telling me about surprises....

At least the evidence here is that I'm actually going to A sewer. Not sure which one, or even if we have more than one though.



--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 12:37 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Oh, that's the benefit of my neighborhood being on the side of a steep hill. Water runs down it, even if it runs underground.

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 1:28 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Hey Brenda - yeah, crows can be very ... uhmm ... determined. So can red-wing blackbirds. I used to go out to a horse property near a wilder area and razz the blackbirds to get them to dive-bomb me. But when you're just walking along and a crow starts up - that sounds creepy.

Anyway - have a good night.








I know they can but this one gave up when I put the what was left of the sandwich in the bag and just kept walking.

Once when I was a kid I had a crow fly in my face. Scared the beejeebers out of me. Someone had it as a pet and it got away. I think the owner finally got it back but I've never liked crows ever since. Took me a good long while to get used to them just being around.

Have a good Saturday.

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 1:29 PM

BRENDA


Out for a walk on a nice bright sunny day.

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 2:46 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Finally caught a sump cycle on.

Rain has been minimal so far (0.02"), so it shouldn't change the outcome much if at all. I'll just have to make sure I'm around to hear it when it goes on again. Fingers crossed for well over an hour at this point.


It occurred to me this morning that there is probably a point in time where there is a severe drop off between cycles, abruptly going from "X" amount of hours to days at once.

My thought is that since the water rests so high above the 4" inlet that it would force some equilibrium to just keep the water from even coming into the well anymore even though there is more water that could be... in turn, making my foundation wet nearly all of the time outside of long drought periods.

This could possibly be what is causing any minor settling issues which would be magnified the higher up the house you go and could explain the drywall screws popping and the 2nd layer of plywood flooring under the carpet to pop up in spots in the attic.

It might also explain why outside of my neighbor, nobody I've ever talked to in the area has had consistent problems with moles burrowing tunnels all along the house and garage foundation like I do too.



Neither of these problems were issues the first 4 or so years I owned the house. The two things that have changed since then are the increasingly heavy rainfall every spring over the last 5 years before this one, and the sump pump with the shim underneath it and the tether that combined give far more height to the water level in the well than there used to be.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 4:10 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Before I go back to lurking on the sump pump - Jack - I'm confused ... does your sump pump drain to an underground perforated pipe after it exits the external wall? Or to your kitchen sink waste line, where you see it flowing when you open up the clean-out?

It sounds like you've only actually seen the sump pump outlet water flowing past your kitchen sink clean-out. So the underground sump pump pipe the sump water goes to after it exits the basement wall is a mystery, and it might actually be connected to your home 'sanitary' waste line near the kitchen sink?




FWIW - most places have 2 sewer systems - a 'sanitary' sewer system, and a 'storm' sewer system. The 'sanitary' sewer system collects water from home utilities and goes to some treatment plant, and then is discharged to some low-lying area. The 'storm' sewer system collects surface 'storm' water and goes directly to some discharge point.

AFAIK there are now no more 'combined' systems in the US, they were all eliminated way back before the 90's.

Hahahahahahaha.

Ahahahahahahahahaha. Maybe in YOUR backyard.
This is the Fake News derived from Libtard Dreams and Delusions.

Looking today, I see it reported that the combined systems are "common" in the Great Lakes Region. I had thought even New York was somewhat near a Great Lake.

Chicago has decided a few decades ago to ignore their combined system, which dumps raw sewage into Lake Michigan when it rains, and instead spend gobs of corruption on their TARP Project, which is currently scheduled to be completed in 2029.

Socialist Milwaukee, home of the Sewer Socialists (most Socialist Mayors elected in a U.S. City), has combined sewers, and dumps raw sewage into Lake Michigan also. The equivalent of 140 full sized tanker trailers lined up along the Lake Michigan shoreline, dumping their entire contents of raw sewage into the Lake all at once - which they then term "Lake Water". Better yet, about 100 feet from the Raw Sewage discharge pipe is the "Fresh Water" Intake pipe, which they then supply to all of Milwaukee County, plus other inland Counties. And they wonder why they are killing folk with cryptosporidium in this water, which comes from feces. Even better, they then BOTTLE this poison sewer water, and label it as "spring water" or somesuch.
Their "Deep Tunnel System" remains a complete boondoggle and failure, and they still dumped raw sewage into Lake Michigan as recently as 2018, and 2016 before that. And because they are Libtards, they don't pay any fines or fees for illegal dumping into the Great Lakes water system.


Oh, boy, Libtards are hilarious when they spout this delusional Libtard Fake News narrative like this. "Not since the 1990s" - LOL




When I lived in Milwaukee, my work location was a matter of yards from I-794, which is elevated, something like 100 feet. I-794 includes the Hoan Bridge, fittingly named after the 2nd "Sewer Socialist" Mayor, because it provides a view (and aroma) of the Sewage Bay, featuring Jones Island. For weeks after a storm, you better remember to roll up your window before getting to the Hoan Bridge, or you might vomit from the stench of Lake Michigan right there.

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 4:32 PM

BRENDA


Back from my walk and everything done. Just a nice sit down now.

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 4:37 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'll look for the hose. connection is easy. the condensate pump usually has a vertical connection sticking up vertically, might look kinda like a barb. this flexi-hose just slides right on, as long as you have the size the fitting is made for. I don't think it is a Legris Fitting, but connects just as easy. removing it is not easy, the one time i tried it. using a dual-barbed fitting from the plumbing dept joins the end of one hose to the next, to infinity.



the hose. i found it on home deot site, but they didn't show a nice cute item number, nor any pricing.

they call it clear vinyl tubing or hose, 3/8" inside diam (but check the fitting size on the pump you'll use). brand names were UDP and hydromaxx. you don't need the reinforced or braided. can you find a price(s)?

supplyhouse.com seems to have it about half the price for 100' - under $14. compared to HD. saw that lowes had it too, and various lengths of 10', 20', 50'.

don't know if this will work:
www.homedepot.com/p/udp-3-8-in-i-d-x-1-2-in-o-d-x-100-ft-clear-

this works for a search:
product number 304185196
then scroll down to "frequently bought together"
they have a bunch of options. can't see if everbilt is cheaper in the 100'.

h

eta: hey, if you get that condensate pump (or use the one you have), run the tubing over to your bathroom, tape it up so it just pours into your toilet, and then hold the condensate pump in your hand, slowly lower it into the sump well surface, when it kicks on just keep holding it just so the water is flowing into the condensate tank, and keep slowly lowering it until it's at the bottom. i really think that would be very easy. a sump pump would be hard to hold, but those condensate pumps can be held like that with one hand while running. I think just don't submerge the thing, the top is where the pump motor is. when no more water is flowing inside that little tank, the pump stops running, so you could set it aside while doing more work.

Thanks for that.

Do you know if it's possible to add a hose like this to a submersible sump pump with a coupler?

Possible? yep, easy. But you already have too much pressure for a 1 1/2 inch PVC pipe.
A PVC reducer can get you down to something like 1/2 inch or 3/8" and then metal fittings from the plumbing department can get you to a barb-type fitting to put the flexi hose on. If you were to make a depressurization chamber like I explained (from adequate height), then that hose would be great for draining gravity flow water (or low pressure). The hose would handle the pressure, but it might be like a firehose - a bit unwieldy.
Some of this is what I still plan to explain for you, too much for right now.
Quote:


I'm not going to be making up my mind about buying any new pumps for a while now. I think the first step is to get down there and experiment with getting the existing one down the level it needs to be.

But since I probably will be buying a new pump for peace of mind once I get everything set up and working proper, I will still two backup submersibles (the filthy one down there now, and the untested one that's been sitting in a box for 5 or 6 years).

If I had a way to set that up where I could quickly feed a tube through a window and plug it in, that would save me in the event that mine broke or the city sewer went down again.

Quote:

Hey, took a while to find, but I found out my sump pump style is called a Pedestal sump pump.
Looks like one called Ecoflo has the rod passing through the top of the switch, like mine.
see if you can look at that and see how easy you can adjust for 24" if your well was that deep.
1/3 hp for $73 I see, and mine works great.
If you do decide to use this type, let me know for some installation tips.
This type does not have the motor submerged, the motor is well above water level.

Okay, that makes sense that you have a pedestal pump and you can get all of that range.

I knew about those, but I wasn't thinking about a pedestal pump at all because it's not recommended in heavy rainfall / flooding areas since it can't pump out water as fast as it's coming in. At least that's what I've read online about them.

That is horseshit. If you feel the need for your kind of pump, you need to excavate your entire half of the basement of dirt, and make that your monster sump well - then you can justify your submersible pump, guided by the wisdom of Uncle Bob's genius.
Even when water is pouring into it from the drainage tiling, my pedestal pump has no problem emptying the entire well in less than a minute. With a 0.3 hp motor. A pedestal well is actually the whole size of the well. Whereas your submersible pump is displacing all of that volume of capacity. I can make my float rub the bottom of the well, although that would likely make the pump suck air - but it is not physically obstructive. You calculations of 8 gallons is incorrect. The 4 gallons above the top of your pump are correct, but the half of your 7" that includes the displacement of the pump itself must be about a gallon less, so it would be about 3 gallon capacity, meaning about 7 gallon total discharge in your 7" range.
My pedestal pump has practically no displacement filling the well, like yours does.
You need a pump with LESS Pressure. Unless you know some secret about HP and Torque and pressure, there is no reason you should have anything more than 1/3 hp. More like 1/6 hp would be better for you, if they make it.
My 0.3 hp pump goes about 10 feet straight up, and 2 feet to the wall, and another 6 feet outside before shooting out of the 1 1/2 inch pipe about 10 feet through the air. That is about 18 feet of pipe, or about 216 inches, and it is way more than it needs.
Your pump needs to be able to go straight up about 40 inches, maybe 50 inches, and then it can drain out to the sewer via gravity.
You have waaaaaaay too much pressure. Way way way too much pressure. You have so much pressure you push water all the way out your kitchen sewer pipe, past your clean out, around the end of your house, maybe under your porch and shed, around your back yard, to the middle of your back wall, joining with your main crap pipe, and then pushing all of the crap pipe water backwards and up against gravity several feet to push water out of the bowl of your toilet.
You have waaaaay too much pressure.
I have no clue why you would even think about getting a pump with MORE hp than 1/3hp. Or even why you would want a submersible pump, to take up the space and capacity that your well should be providing.
Quote:


If it does rain, I'd probably be getting to a new measurement late at night when I settle in and it will be altered by the new rainfall.

At least I should be able to go out to my garage and see the drains in action.

When are you going on your trip?


Oh, and I still don't reccomend buying the new pump yet, until we discuss more options.
Have you visited the metal plumbing fitting section of Home Depot?

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 5:57 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


6ix,
I think I completed the diagram in the post of 1729 yesteday.



Now, I'll broach another subject. There are options to this, but I'll try a basic version.
Don't go off half cocked, take time to mull these over. I'm not trying to create work for you, but to reduce future work for you, and solve your problems.



You really, really, need to separate your sewer and your sump (accumulating drainage from foundation tile).

I think this is the easiest and cheapest way. As long as you have a plan, you can take your time doing this.
Let this marinate in your brain before rejecting it, or even acting on it.
Get a large plastic trash can, or maybe metal. You will eventually cut off much of the top of this, creating your new, 2nd septic well, and can have a pump inside it, if you want it submerged.
Into this large diameter well, regardless of where it is placed, you can shorten your laundry discharge pipe and redirect into here.
You can dig up DIRT ONLY around your shower drain, and redirect that pipe to this new well. Leave the stuff under concrete in place.
The kitchen sink drain pipe could remain the same as it is now.
A pump in this well can be sent to the sewer pipe with the kitchen sink drain.

Once this is done, your current well will be truly a sump well. At this point, you can pipe your actual Sump discharge to outside, if you want. Alternately, you could keep sending it to the kitchen drain pipe, or else just send it over to your new larger well.

The location of this new well should not be decided right away, until I mention other issues. One option would be just inside your entrance between finished basement and dirt floor. This would make it easier to dig as deep as you want. Having a bunch of distance between this new pump and the kitchen drain pipe would help moderate the high pressure from this new pump.
If problems arise in a few years, this would be easier to access at that time.
There are some considerations regarding the specific location of this, so don't start digging right away. But at a leisurely pace, this can be a task no too demanding - even can be done on rainy days.

This option would still be using the front sewer pipe for waste water discharge of kitchen sink, basement shower drain, laundry waste water - and, heck, install a deep sink somewhere in the basement (very handy for cleaning and stuff).
Your sump discharge (effectively filtered rain water), free of waste water, will either be using the same sewer pipe, or straight outside (like using a hole in the side of the kitchen subfloor, like most homes do).


How badly do you hate this option?

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 8:33 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Ok, 6ix.
Some more stuff, maybe kinda random. But consider them, don't go off half-cocked.

Your sand pit. I have a sneaky suspicion that this was dug up to join the front sewer pipe to the main sewer pipe in back. Then just filled it in with sand and some brick on top.


Since you have not mentioned it, I assume your main crap pipe that your basement toilet is mounted to is all intact, essentially one piece?
Have you considered splicing it out? This may not be needed, since you plan to drain your basement vanity into it. But I'll say that some prior owner of my current house did take out the cast iron pipe, and replaced that section (about 6 feet) with black PVC - using large rubber sleeves and hose clamps, like you spliced last year outside your wall. Have not had any problems with it in 11 years. Made it really easy to add pipe for my washing machine - I just unscrewed one pug (about 8") and threaded in PVC pipe/elbow.
Keep this in mind in case we find it might be useful.

I finally went and measured my sump well dimensions, if you are interested.
17" diameter well. 25" total well depth. When the pump stops and the residual water settles back down, the surface is 5" from the bottom. The stroke of the rod is 11". The top of the inlet pipe is 16" from the bottom.



Next, I want to broach the idea of letting all of your indoor water going out your main crap pipe in back.
This means getting your front side water over to your back side main pipe.

There are several ideas, consider carefully each. These can work together with other options, or not.
I need to suggest them because I am not actually there to look in person.

Each of these options we would prefer to put a peak in the pipe, where it is several inches or a couple feet higher than the ceiling of the finished basement, and then gravity can take it from the peak to the main crap pipe.


Pipe from under kitchen along concrete walls of finished basement room.
I do understand the 2 concrete walls are finished.
I'll assume you must have some door between the kitchen and porch.
A pipe would be under the kitchen, along this wall. The pipe would turn up or vertical up at/behind the back edge of the kitchen (sorta between the kitchen and the bedroom). This pipe would hopefully peak there, then U-turn back down to the height of the ceiling of the finished basement, and follow the ceiling along the concrete walls to the bathroom wall, then goes through that wall to attach to the main crap pipe.
This would put a hole where the pipe enters the finished basement, and a hole through the top of the bathroom wall. This pipe routing could be disguised by some fancy woodwork near the ceiling, perhaps a shelf, or shelving/cabinetry with a facade top to hide the pipe behind.


Pipe from under/between stairs to ceiling of basement bathroom.
A pipe starts somewhere in the crawl space, and sneaks/snakes up near the stairs, perhaps between the stairs from level 1.0 to 1.5 Kitchen and the stairs from 1.5 living room to 2.0. Maybe even up to the stairs from level 2.0 to attic 2.5. This essentially vertical pipe could be covered by paneling, woodwork to disguise it. Then the pipe could follow the stairs from 2.5 attic down to the ceiling of the basement, cross the ceiling and go into the bathroom. If your joists are in the right place, you could run the pipe between joists, above the finished ceiling until it gets to the main crap pipe inside the bathroom.
If the stairwell does not lend towards this possibility, then a pipe going up (the wall?) between the living room and the bedroom, then across the ceiling of the basement hallway to the bathroom.


I know you will shoot holes in these, but are any of them possible?

I fully understand that you may wish to avoid these like the plague, but if we know they could be possible in the future, that will instruct our planning now.

At this point, I think I am caught up with most of what I wanted to mention to this point - let me know if I missed something or forgot to clarify.


I'll tell you the sump time that I want to know: Go down to it, activate it until it almost sucks air, then wait 5 or 10 minutes - or until the water stops pouring into it from the inlet tube.
Then activate the pump again, until it just starts to suck air.
Then start the timer - how long before the pump runs again? That is the time I want to know.

If you want to record more data, here is what I would want:
After that 2nd manual activation, what is the surface level in the well after 1 minute? You can measure from the rim.
Then, what is the level after 2 minutes following the sucking air.
Then, what is the level after 5 minutes total?
After 10 min total?
after 15 min total?
If your adjustments have not been changed, then we already covered the rest if the info I want.

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 9:50 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


6ix,
Draining the sand pit. Consider this, but I don't expect you to do this right away. (make tha float adjustment first, on the sump pump.)

You had said you were going to measure how much higher the sand pit was compared to the meeting of your driveway and street curb. I don't recall seeing the results. You said you had a 6 foot level.

At the edge of the sand pit, dig down a bit - still several inches above the level of the street curb. Dig a trench to almost the curb. The grass/topsoil, just fold it over to the side, like a toupee. Use garden hose to put lots of water near the pit, ensure there is a downward slope of the trench to the curb.
cover an end of that tiling tube with something like cheesecloth, which will allow water to enter the pipe, but not so much sand. Lay that end a little into the sand pit, or up against it - with sand against the cheesecloth, not brick.
Then fill in some dirt, flop the toupee back on. Put the extra dirt against the basement wall of the house, 2 inches thick, and the nearest 2-3' from the wall.

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 10:00 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


You'll have to forgive me man, but this is all getting extremely overwhelming for me.

The entirety of my plumbing experience in my entire life is swapping out 5 toilet flush units (only 2 of them were really any good), 2 emergency sump pump replacements (one saw a top of the line cast iron Zoeller fail within a year and a half, the other one has left my house foundation in a swamp for 6 years), and assisting an actual union plumber with rodding out my clean out to learn how to do it myself and to try to get his ass out of here before an hour so I wasn't billed for two.


I've got to take this stuff one thing at a time man. The idea of redirecting all of the plumbing in my house sounds like a bigger nightmare than just lighting the place on fire, buying an RV and just driving down to Mexico and taking my chances.

I'm not trying to shit on your ideas or anything, and I do appreciate you taking all this time and interest, but maybe you can save a word document with all of your ideas as they come to you and we can look into future possibilities to make an improvement here or there after I shore some more immediate things up.

Because right now, fixing Uncle Bob's plumbing fuck ups is about 100,000th place on my list of things to do, right behind voting for Biden* in 2024.




The first thing I have to do is lower that well and the sump action FAR below where it currently is, and then seen how everything reacts to heavy rain storms after that's done along with roof water being properly drained away from the house.

After that, I'd just be happy with having a 2nd place to re-direct that water, possibly out the window, that won't require me to remove the permanent sump pump and would be easy to turn on and snake that hose outside so my basement doesn't flood when the situation would otherwise be entirely out of my control like it was last year.

I'm not exactly hurting for money now, but I'm not made of it either. I don't want to go nuts spending a lot, and I have a feeling that I'm not capable of doing most of what you're suggesting today on my own, for lack of knowledge as well as lack of proper tools, and I have no friends or family who are any more capable of it than I am.

If I'm going to be spending any more money on pros doing something, it's going to be having them put proper windows on the 3 season room first so I can finish it, and eventually installing a real heating unit, since the only on I have is a bullshit model from the 1960's that somehow is still hanging on today.















FYI... My pump didn't make water shoot out of my toilet.

And my pump was never running continuously during that flood either. It ran every 3 or 4 minutes or so, but never constantly.

But when the sump pump went on, the toilet water did rise just enough to spill a bit on the floor. Not much... Just a bit of splashing. But it didn't take me long to figure that out and stop it before it possibly turned into a lot.

But what you were saying got me thinking a bit about things.

It's really amazing that my basement didn't just entirely flood when the city sewer backed up. The toilet water did fill to the brim on its own, but I was fortunate enough that it never seemed to get any higher than that after I turned off the pump.


But how the hell wasn't I taking in a ton of water in the front???

The water level was so high in the pipe to the street that it pushed up at least ground level up the clean-out when I pulled the cover off of it. As we've already established, that pipe is at least 1.5 feet under ground. And it was full. How was that water not pouring into my crawl space like niagra falls?

A tiny-tiny little Flotec check valve couldn't possibly retain that type of water.

The only water that was building in the crawlspace was what had been coming in the 4" inlet in the well and not getting pumped out after the pump was turned off.

I have no fucking clue what happened last year now and no explanation for why it didn't turn out to be a much bigger nightmare than it already was.


And now I'm thinking it would be a good idea to have a third pump I could throw into the toilet and pump out the bathroom window. I might not be so lucky next time.
--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 10:18 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
6ix,
Draining the sand pit. Consider this, but I don't expect you to do this right away. (make tha float adjustment first, on the sump pump.)

You had said you were going to measure how much higher the sand pit was compared to the meeting of your driveway and street curb. I don't recall seeing the results. You said you had a 6 foot level.

At the edge of the sand pit, dig down a bit - still several inches above the level of the street curb. Dig a trench to almost the curb. The grass/topsoil, just fold it over to the side, like a toupee. Use garden hose to put lots of water near the pit, ensure there is a downward slope of the trench to the curb.
cover an end of that tiling tube with something like cheesecloth, which will allow water to enter the pipe, but not so much sand. Lay that end a little into the sand pit, or up against it - with sand against the cheesecloth, not brick.
Then fill in some dirt, flop the toupee back on. Put the extra dirt against the basement wall of the house, 2 inches thick, and the nearest 2-3' from the wall.




Can't do it. It's not a perforated pipe. Solid. It won't leech in or out any water.

The sand is very low compared tot he driveway. I had to shim the hell out of the drainage tube from the back of the porch/shed with cinderblock pavers just to get it to the driveway without it sitting a lot lower than the driveway.

And because of the settling of that cracked porch slab, the vinyl siding isn't but 1 to 2" higher than the sand. What I'm saying is, the point where the driveway slopes down to the street is higher than my porch slab is.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 10:26 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Great...

Almost no rain on Wednesday now when I'm supposed to get back. They moved that all up to Tuesday, with a .65" thunderstorm while I'm supposed to be gone.

Fuck my life. I guess I'll flip a coin.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 10:30 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
You'll have to forgive me man, but this is all getting extremely overwhelming for me.

The entirety of my plumbing experience in my entire life is swapping out 5 toilet flush units (only 2 of them were really any good), 2 emergency sump pump replacements (one saw a top of the line cast iron Zoeller fail within a year and a half, the other one has left my house foundation in a swamp for 6 years), and assisting an actual union plumber with rodding out my clean out to learn how to do it myself and to try to get his ass out of here before an hour so I wasn't billed for two.


I've got to take this stuff one thing at a time man. The idea of redirecting all of the plumbing in my house sounds like a bigger nightmare than just lighting the place on fire, buying an RV and just driving down to Mexico and taking my chances.

I'm not trying to shit on your ideas or anything, and I do appreciate you taking all this time and interest, but maybe you can save a word document with all of your ideas as they come to you and we can look into future possibilities to make an improvement here or there after I shore some more immediate things up.

Because right now, fixing Uncle Bob's plumbing fuck ups is about 100,000th place on my list of things to do, right behind voting for Biden* in 2024.




The first thing I have to do is lower that well and the sump action FAR below where it currently is, and then seen how everything reacts to heavy rain storms after that's done along with roof water being properly drained away from the house.

After that, I'd just be happy with having a 2nd place to re-direct that water, possibly out the window, that won't require me to remove the permanent sump pump and would be easy to turn on and snake that hose outside so my basement doesn't flood when the situation would otherwise be entirely out of my control like it was last year.

I'm not exactly hurting for money now, but I'm not made of it either. I don't want to go nuts spending a lot, and I have a feeling that I'm not capable of doing most of what you're suggesting today on my own, for lack of knowledge as well as lack of proper tools, and I have no friends or family who are any more capable of it than I am.

If I'm going to be spending any more money on pros doing something, it's going to be having them put proper windows on the 3 season room first so I can finish it, and eventually installing a real heating unit, since the only on I have is a bullshit model from the 1960's that somehow is still hanging on today.















FYI... My pump didn't make water shoot out of my toilet.

And my pump was never running continuously during that flood either. It ran every 3 or 4 minutes or so, but never constantly.

But when the sump pump went on, the toilet water did rise just enough to spill a bit on the floor. Not much... Just a bit of splashing. But it didn't take me long to figure that out and stop it before it possibly turned into a lot.

But what you were saying got me thinking a bit about things.

It's really amazing that my basement didn't just entirely flood when the city sewer backed up. The toilet water did fill to the brim on its own, but I was fortunate enough that it never seemed to get any higher than that after I turned off the pump.


But how the hell wasn't I taking in a ton of water in the front???

The water level was so high in the pipe to the street that it pushed up at least ground level up the clean-out when I pulled the cover off of it. As we've already established, that pipe is at least 1.5 feet under ground. And it was full. How was that water not pouring into my crawl space like niagra falls?

A tiny-tiny little Flotec check valve couldn't possibly retain that type of water.

The only water that was building in the crawlspace was what had been coming in the 4" inlet in the well and not getting pumped out after the pump was turned off.

I have no fucking clue what happened last year now and no explanation for why it didn't turn out to be a much bigger nightmare than it already was.


And now I'm thinking it would be a good idea to have a third pump I could throw into the toilet and pump out the bathroom window. I might not be so lucky next time.

I'm fair certain I know what is going on and how to fix it, but I cannot force you to do anything.

"Plumbing" primarily refers to fresh water supply, hot water heater, and the pipes of a hot water heating system.
Gravity flow drain pipes are the easiest thing that plumbers do. This is shower, sink, toilet, laundry, floor drains. Uncle Bob screwed up plenty, but it is not insurmountable. PVC pipe at the store is usually not expensive - particularly the long tubes. They can connect with glue, like contact cement. If we got to that point, I would help explain what to do.
But I cannot see WHERE to make things work. That is what I need you to tell me.


My priorities for you, at this point, would be:
Get the pump down on the bottom of the well - if you can find the bottom.
Adjust the float, to get the water much lower, closer to the bottom.
Set it to turn on when the surface touches the bottom of the inlet tube.




What is the hp of the pump you have now?

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Saturday, May 15, 2021 10:51 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
6ix,
Draining the sand pit. Consider this, but I don't expect you to do this right away. (make tha float adjustment first, on the sump pump.)

You had said you were going to measure how much higher the sand pit was compared to the meeting of your driveway and street curb. I don't recall seeing the results. You said you had a 6 foot level.

At the edge of the sand pit, dig down a bit - still several inches above the level of the street curb. Dig a trench to almost the curb. The grass/topsoil, just fold it over to the side, like a toupee. Use garden hose to put lots of water near the pit, ensure there is a downward slope of the trench to the curb.
cover an end of that tiling tube with something like cheesecloth, which will allow water to enter the pipe, but not so much sand. Lay that end a little into the sand pit, or up against it - with sand against the cheesecloth, not brick.
Then fill in some dirt, flop the toupee back on. Put the extra dirt against the basement wall of the house, 2 inches thick, and the nearest 2-3' from the wall.




Can't do it. It's not a perforated pipe. Solid. It won't leech in or out any water.

The sand is very low compared tot he driveway. I had to shim the hell out of the drainage tube from the back of the porch/shed with cinderblock pavers just to get it to the driveway without it sitting a lot lower than the driveway.

And because of the settling of that cracked porch slab, the vinyl siding isn't but 1 to 2" higher than the sand. What I'm saying is, the point where the driveway slopes down to the street is higher than my porch slab is.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.


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Saturday, May 15, 2021 10:52 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
6ix,
Draining the sand pit. Consider this, but I don't expect you to do this right away. (make tha float adjustment first, on the sump pump.)

You had said you were going to measure how much higher the sand pit was compared to the meeting of your driveway and street curb. I don't recall seeing the results. You said you had a 6 foot level.

At the edge of the sand pit, dig down a bit - still several inches above the level of the street curb. Dig a trench to almost the curb. The grass/topsoil, just fold it over to the side, like a toupee. Use garden hose to put lots of water near the pit, ensure there is a downward slope of the trench to the curb.
cover an end of that tiling tube with something like cheesecloth, which will allow water to enter the pipe, but not so much sand. Lay that end a little into the sand pit, or up against it - with sand against the cheesecloth, not brick.
Then fill in some dirt, flop the toupee back on. Put the extra dirt against the basement wall of the house, 2 inches thick, and the nearest 2-3' from the wall.

Can't do it. It's not a perforated pipe. Solid. It won't leech in or out any water.

The sand is very low compared tot he driveway. I had to shim the hell out of the drainage tube from the back of the porch/shed with cinderblock pavers just to get it to the driveway without it sitting a lot lower than the driveway.

And because of the settling of that cracked porch slab, the vinyl siding isn't but 1 to 2" higher than the sand. What I'm saying is, the point where the driveway slopes down to the street is higher than my porch slab is.

Next time you are there when it's raining, ot you wet the grass, take your leaf rake out there.
Parallel to the curb of the side street, start raking about 3' from the curb. stay 5' away from the driveway. Continue that path for 10 or 20', staying parallel to the curb. if some grass gets pulled up, or thinned out, that is OK. don't do too much, where it is just dirt/mud left.
Give it a week or 2 to regain growth, then repeat. Make this your own private retention pond. It will evaporate quickly enough. But when it is lower than your porch slab, then water will drain to the lower spot.


Is the ground behind your garage, opposite the garage door, lower than the sand pit?

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 12:51 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'm fair certain I know what is going on and how to fix it, but I cannot force you to do anything.

"Plumbing" primarily refers to fresh water supply, hot water heater, and the pipes of a hot water heating system.
Gravity flow drain pipes are the easiest thing that plumbers do. This is shower, sink, toilet, laundry, floor drains. Uncle Bob screwed up plenty, but it is not insurmountable. PVC pipe at the store is usually not expensive - particularly the long tubes. They can connect with glue, like contact cement. If we got to that point, I would help explain what to do.
But I cannot see WHERE to make things work. That is what I need you to tell me.


My priorities for you, at this point, would be:
Get the pump down on the bottom of the well - if you can find the bottom.
Adjust the float, to get the water much lower, closer to the bottom.
Set it to turn on when the surface touches the bottom of the inlet tube.



That's where I'm at right now too.

Getting that sump/well right is my top priority right now.

I've still got a kitchen remodel that's taken me the better part of 4 months that is probably only halfway finished right now, I've been mowing my gigantic lawn on an average of every 3 days, I've got a back porch I need to figure out how to get legit windows out without getting the city involved because I don't want them peeking at the floor that I fixed after Uncle Bob built the place and then Uncle Bob "fixed" it himself at some point, I've got a front porch overhang that is still up on jacks witch chicken wire installed to keep racoons from climbing up the jacks or columns and making a home there again because I still don't know exactly what is causing the attic to shift and I don't want to button that up until I do, I've got half of the outside windows to caulk and paint still, and and a billion other things on my plate.

Getting plumbing from the kitchen to the back would be almost impossible without some sort of pump action because of the layout of the house. I couldn't just go under the crawl and then magically make it shoot into the crap tube without going directly through the laundry room and hallway. I'm not at all concerned with what type of water is going out the front of the hose since 5 owners before me didn't care over the last 62 years either.

Quote:

What is the hp of the pump you have now?



1HP.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 12:59 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Next time you are there when it's raining, ot you wet the grass, take your leaf rake out there.
Parallel to the curb of the side street, start raking about 3' from the curb. stay 5' away from the driveway. Continue that path for 10 or 20', staying parallel to the curb. if some grass gets pulled up, or thinned out, that is OK. don't do too much, where it is just dirt/mud left.
Give it a week or 2 to regain growth, then repeat. Make this your own private retention pond. It will evaporate quickly enough. But when it is lower than your porch slab, then water will drain to the lower spot.



I'll give it a shot. It will definately take a while though. Last year when I resurfaced the driveway, I discovered that I had about an additional 155 feet of driveway I didn't know I had because the grass had invaded and grown on top of it. It was like cutting up sod when I took it off (I since reused that dirt to fill the holes from the pits in the ground that the tree guys made.

Quote:

Is the ground behind your garage, opposite the garage door, lower than the sand pit?



It's higher. But the grass there is as high as I'd want to go on the garage slab too. The garage slab is higher than the shed slab, but not by much.

At least the house and porch (cinder blocks) are higher than the ground by quite a bit.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 1:07 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Apparently, after hours of trying to figure it out, I can't figure a formula to try to estimate sump on/off cycles and the time in between them during the times I wasn't actively taking a measurement.

With my spreadsheet I was able to do a few tweaks to try to get the most realistic numbers possible without having actual times for every occurrence.

When it turned on at 11:26PM tonight, it was up to 1 hour, 17 minutes and 31 seconds since it had last shut off. So that means 6.5 days after the rain stopped we'll now be down to the pump going off less than 18 times tomorrow. It will probably be 15 or 16.

The average amount of cycles per day is just around 75% of what it was the day before.

I don't believe the little shower we had has any impact on these numbers.



These probably aren't precise still, but the numbers should be more accurate than they were last time.

Sunday: 119 cycles (Only started counting at 8:30AM, so it was more for sure)
Monday: 85 cycles
Tuesday: 68 cycles
Wednesday: 44 cycles
Thursday: 33 cycles
Friday: 25 cycles
Saturday: 20 cycles


--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 1:25 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


These are the time's I've recorded. If anybody knows the math (or even better, the excel formulas I'd need) to figure out a good estimate of the times of intervals in between, I'm all ears....
DATE - TIME / HOURS:MINUTES:SECONDS

5/9
08:30 AM 0:5:54
10:00 AM 0:5:14
10:30 AM 0:5:0
11:15 AM 0:4:57
11:55 AM 0:4:47
01:20 PM 0:6:22
02:11 PM 0:6:44
04:54 PM 0:8:13
06:45 PM 0:9:6
08:00 PM 0:9:25
08:50 PM 0:10:12
09:33 PM 0:10:35
09:45 PM 0:10:47
11:20 PM 0:11:19

5/10
08:30 AM 0:14:42
11:30 AM 0:15:52
12:21 PM 0:16:10
05:15 PM 0:17:49
07:00 PM 0:18:23
08:45 PM 0:18:52

5/11
09:30 AM 0:23:0
06:15 PM 0:26:8
11:15 PM 0:27:15

5/12
07:50 PM 0:34:49
10:16 PM 0:36:17

05/13
09:15 PM 0:46:57

05/14
07:07 PM 0:58:16

05/15
12:15 AM 1:4:16
07:30 PM 1:11:12
11:26 PM 1:17:31


--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 1:42 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Yup... Something is fishy here...

A rainfall calculator says that if my roof is 25 feet long by 15 feet wide, that is only 844 gallons of water (I'm guessing on the 15, but the 25 should be fairly accurate if I remember the gutter length back there right).

All of that was dumped in the sand pit and wrapped around the front of the house around the foundation before I put the drain pipes on.

If my sump is putting out 8 gallons every time it runs, and it's already ran an estimate of 394 times since Sunday morning, that would mean it's removed 3,152 gallons of water from the well, and it will probably remove around another 120 tomorrow.

I know that 3.6 inches is a lot of rain and there was still quite a bit that fell close to the house that wasn't caught by the gutters, but aside from the bad area in the pit and the water that pooled around the front of the porch there was at least an inch or two of dry dirt around the foundation, with the far side of the house from the porch having 5 or 6 inches of dry dirt. This seems a little excessive to me

But when I look in the clean out, lot's of water appears to go to the street with no evidence of obstruction or any back flow when the pump stops working and the rest that made it over the hump trickles out.

I just can't believe that much if any of that water leaving the sump is coming back to my house from what I'm seeing. I mean, 8 gallons of water leaving a large pipe at a decent clip like that without any coming back to a clean out that is 2.5 feet away from the house makes me think that it's all going where it needs to be going.

Any ideas, JSF?



ETA: It should be noted that water collecting under the porch in that unattached "crawl" could be a problem here. Though the shed slab/floor was dry and there was no evidence of water getting in from that side, even in the unpatched crack that is only sealed on the outside, the front of the porch had a ton of standing water until 45 minutes after the rain had stopped. And the sand at the back of the porch, was all soaked even though it never had any standing water. It was probably quite wet under the 2 layers of pavers and the visqueen I had put down there before installing the floor.

Sand may just have different properties than dirt and always suck that right up against the foundation, but hopefully now that the gutter isn't dumping directly into the center of it anymore and that water is going down the driveway instead, all of that water removed out of the equation will at least see some dry land by the back of the porch next time.
--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 11:07 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


When I'm asking about the math for figurin', here's a good example.

Last night at 11:26PM I got my last good reading (where I had a stop watch going between cycles). It was 77 minutes, 31 seconds.

I caught another cycle at 2:03 (I started the stopwatch, but fell asleep before it went off again).


If I take those two times, it's 157 minutes between. I divide them by 2 and I get 78 minutes, 30 seconds. But it wouldn't have been 78.5 minutes each time. It would be more like 78 minutes on the one I didn't hear, and 79 minutes on the one I did hear.




First time I heard it this morning was 9:16AM.

That's 439 minutes between cycles at 2:03 and 9:16.

If I divide 439 by 78.5, I get 5.59. You can't have a half cycle, so the pump could only have gone off 5 times in that span of time (assuming no rain, which there wasn't any, and nothing else unexpected changed things).

So 439 divided by 5 = 87.8, or 1 hour; 27 minutes; 48 seconds.

That would mean the average time between those 5 pumps was 87 minutes and 48 seconds.



But I know no way of getting a more realistic assumption of events here. There's no way that first pump after 2:03 jumped up and was 9 minutes longer than the last one, with the four afterward being exactly the same.

There's also no way that the pump that I started timing at 9:16 occurred only 87 minutes and 48 seconds after the prior cycle either. It will have been longer than that. But by how much?




The last legitimate time that was recorded with a stopwatch was the 77 minutes and 31 seconds at 11:26PM.


Anybody know how I'd get a reasonable number for the length of the 7 pumps leading up to now? (2 assumed times + 5 assumed times after that)

Or probably, more helpfully, the 8 pumps after I record this next one and get another legitimate time to sandwich the the 7 unknowns between two legit recordings.









ETA: In any event, while we're not falling off a cliff yet with cycle times, if you average the latest 5 times by dividing the 439 minutes between the last two times I noticed the pump operating by 5 (87 minutes 48 seconds), and the 2 times before that by dividing 157 by 2 (78 minutes and 30 seconds).

Then subtract that difference (552 seconds, or 9 minutes and 12 seconds).

Then, you divide the 522 seconds by 5 and get 110 seconds. You're looking at nearly 2 minutes between cycles. (longer, because the last cycle would have been longer than the average of the last 5 cycles).

2 minutes is a pretty huge difference between cycles compared to at the beginning.



..... But looking at the data though, a two minute difference over the course of 2 hours is actually fairly expected if you're not looking at cycles and cycle times and just focusing on time elapsed itself.



--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 12:18 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


So at 10:49 the stopwatch read 93 minutes and 39 seconds from the last cycle.

Or 4 minutes 49 seconds more than the average of the 5 prior cycles that weren't recorded between 2:03 and 9:16.

Not really sure how much we're gaining per cycle, but at least we can get a better picture of how many minutes gain there are per hour. (and maybe that's the calculation I should be striving for on my spreadsheet, since it would probably be much easier to do for the whole experiment rather than try to figure out accurate cycle time differences, while being essentially just as useful to me... And I might inadvertently be able to get a better estimation of pump cycles this route if I shift my focus here instead).




At 11:26PM (5/15) the recorded cycle time was 1 hour, 17 minutes, 31 seconds.
4,651 Seconds

At 9:16AM (5/16) the recorded cycle time was 1 hour, 32 minutes, 29 seconds.
5,549 Seconds

Difference: 898 seconds, or 14 minutes and 58 seconds
14.97 minutes

Time difference between the two measurements was 9 hours, 50 minutes.
590 Minutes; 35,400 seconds
9.84 hours

14.97 minutes / 9.84 hours = a gain of 1.52 minutes per cycle, or 1 minute and 31 seconds per hour.

So every hour the pump is going off 1 minute and 31 seconds less than the previous hour.


I'll have to do some calculations for early times and see if that's been constant. I think we've actually been making improvements here, and I will have one more day to test before I go (rain permitting).



--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 2:17 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Ok, 6ix.

It is becoming clear that your are not listening to my advice. Which was my concern from the start.
I might repeat myself a little more.
Quote:



I'll tell you the sump time that I want to know: Go down to it, activate it until it almost sucks air, then wait 5 or 10 minutes - or until the water stops pouring into it from the inlet tube.
Then activate the pump again, until it just starts to suck air.
Then start the timer - how long before the pump runs again? That is the time I want to know.

...you want to record more data, here is what I would want:
After that 2nd manual activation, what is the surface level in the well after 1 minute? You can measure from the rim.
Then, what is the level after 2 minutes following the sucking air.
Then, what is the level after 5 minutes total?
After 10 min total?
after 15 min total?
If your adjustments have not been changed, then we already covered the rest if the info I want.

You could probably do that today, maybe in the next hour.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 2:21 PM

BRENDA


Lazy Sunday.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 2:21 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'm fair certain I know what is going on and how to fix it, but I cannot force you to do anything.


I cannot see WHERE to make things work. That is what I need you to tell me.


My priorities for you, at this point, would be:
Get the pump down on the bottom of the well - if you can find the bottom.
Adjust the float, to get the water much lower, closer to the bottom.
Set it to turn on when the surface touches the bottom of the inlet tube.

That's where I'm at right now too.

Getting that sump/well right is my top priority right now.



Getting plumbing from the kitchen to the back would be almost impossible without some sort of pump action because of the layout of the house. I couldn't just go under the crawl and then magically make it shoot into the crap tube without going directly through the laundry room and hallway.

Quote:

What is the hp of the pump you have now?

1HP.

Get that float lowered.
Today.
It could take less than 10 minutes.



The tether point is currently above the top of the inlet tube. Get that lower.
Ultimately, we want the pump to turn on before the surface touches the bottom of the inlet tube.
I don't care if it is only a 3" range, 3" drop in surface level from Pump Start to Pump Stop, get that Pump Start lower than the bottom of the inlet tube.
I don't care if the pump runs every 1 or 2 minutes.
You are already hogging most of the well capacity with that overpowering hog of a pump, submerged to fill the well with empty space. You might only pump a few gallons per cycle, but get that float lowered.



IF you buy another pump, do not get anything higher than 1/3 hp. And get pedestal style pump.
Even an upflush pump, including macereator, has a max power rating of 1/2 hp (into a 2" discharge pipe). If you found a 1/6 hp pump, I'd be much happier.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 2:40 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN



Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'm fair certain I know what is going on and how to fix it, but I cannot force you to do anything.


I cannot see WHERE to make things work. That is what I need you to tell me.


Getting plumbing from the kitchen to the back would be almost impossible without some sort of pump action because of the layout of the house. I couldn't just go under the crawl and then magically make it shoot into the crap tube without going directly through the laundry room and hallway.

NOW you are starting to catch on.

From kitchen to CEILING of finished basement.

I have tried asking you, in several different ways, but without much luck.

A pump would push the water to there. You could use a newer well, near the connecting door to the dirt floor. even a surface well, like a big bucket, or even a kiddie pool. you could even use a 2" hose, but that would be more expensive.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 2:58 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
If my sump is putting out 8 gallons every time it runs,

no, 7 gallons.
Quote:



Any ideas, JSF?

In your big back yard, the large part both behind your house and the backside of your garage - is it all flat? Is any part of it lower than your garage slab and sand pit?
I thought you said your back door neighbor was lower than you, he's in flood zone?

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 5:26 PM

BRENDA


Well, another chapter retyped. Good for me.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 5:36 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I stopped by Home Depot today.

On the shelf I saw a nice 1/4 hp sump pump for $100. Good for pushing water 20 feet straight up (vertical). 6ix needs to go up 3 or 4 feet.
Also a nice pedestal pump with 1/3 hp for $90.
And a Drill Pump for $17. Good for water removal, in a bind.




It seems possible that solutions will not be enacted, so I will wrap up with a summary timeline of salient facts. Some errors may exist, but somebody else will need to suss that out. Some of this I did not learn until yesterday.

More than a decade ago, property was purchased.
House had no rain gutters.
Plot was on the verge of Flood Plain, and environs had drainage and low elevation issues, and yet, no rain gutters were installed.
House had no Sump Well or Sump Pump, but instead an open Septic/sewage well, and pump in it. Probably the best term for it would be an Upflush Pump, without macerator. Power rating unknown.
Drainage tile around foundation fed into this Septic well.
4 or 5 prior decades had established complete "settling" of the house.
Basement was prone to flooding, and oft wet and moldy.
And yet, no rain gutters.

At some point before 6 years ago, the Upflush Pump was replaced, again with unknown power rating.
No rain gutters were installed.

About 6 years ago, the submersible Upflush Pump was removed.
In it's place was put an overpowered pump for the purpose of removing water from the top of the dirt floor of the basement.
Since that time, the drainage tile has never again been allowed to drain, until perhaps this past week, when the water level was briefly lowered below the drain tile outlet. If the water in the foundation tiling ever evaporated or leaked down in the dirt below the foundation, it was kept full/flooded by laundry waste water and condensate.
This has maintained a flooded, waterlogged, saturated foundation for 6 years.
No rain gutters were installed.


After 5 years of having a house on a foundation of quicksand, many folk can understand what would happen. Evidence of the building sinking was posted in a picture last year in this thread - not sure which date. With the building having sunk about 1 1/2", the weight of the house was greater that the weight of the dirt lawn in front of the house, so the 2" front sewer pipe had been sheered off, near to the basement wall. The wall side of broken pipe was, IIRC, about 1 1/2" lower than the portion of pipe in the lawn.
This sinking into the ground affects all attached structures. The garage is not affected because it is detached. The structure and internal portions of the house have likely become twisted or torqued.
At that time, no rain gutters were installed.

Last fall, rain gutters were installed.


Currently, after 6 years of keeping the foundation submerged in water, the pump is still set to keep the drainage tile flooded. The proper power rating for this pump is far less than 1/3 hp, but a full 1.0 hp pump is sitting there. A Pedestal style pump would provide the greatest function and well volume, but a submersible is displacing all of the volume capacity of the well below the tile inlet tube.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 7:42 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'm fair certain I know what is going on and how to fix it, but I cannot force you to do anything.


I cannot see WHERE to make things work. That is what I need you to tell me.


Getting plumbing from the kitchen to the back would be almost impossible without some sort of pump action because of the layout of the house. I couldn't just go under the crawl and then magically make it shoot into the crap tube without going directly through the laundry room and hallway.

NOW you are starting to catch on.

From kitchen to CEILING of finished basement.

I have tried asking you, in several different ways, but without much luck.

A pump would push the water to there. You could use a newer well, near the connecting door to the dirt floor. even a surface well, like a big bucket, or even a kiddie pool. you could even use a 2" hose, but that would be more expensive.




Can't do it.

It's a tri-level. The ceiling of the finished basement is the floor of the 2nd floor (level 2.0). The kitchen is on the first floor (level 1.5). The sink drain drain itself isn't even as high as the basement ceiling. Even if it were, there would be no way to wrap it through walls all over the place to eventually end up in the crapper drain. The kitchen door (back door) would block it one way, and the living room door (front door) would block it the other way.

It would have to go straight through livable space in the basement (level 1.0), so you'd either be crawling under it or jumping over it to get from room to room down there.

I'm assuming this is why there are two drains out of the house. One in front, and one in back.

I don't know if the sump well originally went out into the street or they tapped into it instead of dumping it on the lawn outside. Could be either. That drain out to the street might have just been for the kitchen sink originally.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 7:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
It is becoming clear that your are not listening to my advice. Which was my concern from the start.
I might repeat myself a little more.



I don't think I've done anything against your advice.

I just have a lot of things to do. I've been busy with other things all day again today and I'm going to be gone until Wednesday morning.

I'll get to it.

Outside of making the water removal much more efficient, I have no interest in changing plumbing right now though. Maybe after about 100 other things are done.

I can't even entertain that at the moment.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 7:52 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
If my sump is putting out 8 gallons every time it runs,

no, 7 gallons.
Quote:



Any ideas, JSF?

In your big back yard, the large part both behind your house and the backside of your garage - is it all flat? Is any part of it lower than your garage slab and sand pit?
I thought you said your back door neighbor was lower than you, he's in flood zone?




Back is dry. All the bare dirt by the foundation for the entire back of the house isn't wet on the surface.

Back is where most of the water was coming in the basement before I patched it when I had to mop all that up last year. I haven't had a single drop to mop up this year.

Hasta beds in front are still moist, but all the ground is still moist on my entire large front yard. Except for the area that got waterlogged when the back porch roof was draining right into the sand pit and wrapped around the front, ground at least 6" from the foundation in the hasta bed is dry. It hasn't been hot and has rarely been sunny in the last week since the big rain.



--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 8:02 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


About an hour ago I recorded another sump cycle.

It jumped all the way up to 1 hour and 48 minutes + this time. It would probably be well over 2 hours before I'm ready for bed.


Rain forcast looks a lot better for Tuesday and Wednesday now, with very minimial chance of thunderstorms compared to what I was seeing last night.

I should only see about .7" max before I get back. That along with the back porch roof draining out to the street now should mean that the sump cycles shouldn't get worse than they are now when I'm back, so I should have plenty of time to work on things down there without an impending catastrophe breathing down my neck.


Assuming I don't lose power while I'm gone.



--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 8:06 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I stopped by Home Depot today.

On the shelf I saw a nice 1/4 hp sump pump for $100. Good for pushing water 20 feet straight up (vertical). 6ix needs to go up 3 or 4 feet.
Also a nice pedestal pump with 1/3 hp for $90.
And a Drill Pump for $17. Good for water removal, in a bind.




It seems possible that solutions will not be enacted, so I will wrap up with a summary timeline of salient facts. Some errors may exist, but somebody else will need to suss that out. Some of this I did not learn until yesterday.

More than a decade ago, property was purchased.
House had no rain gutters.
Plot was on the verge of Flood Plain, and environs had drainage and low elevation issues, and yet, no rain gutters were installed.
House had no Sump Well or Sump Pump, but instead an open Septic/sewage well, and pump in it. Probably the best term for it would be an Upflush Pump, without macerator. Power rating unknown.
Drainage tile around foundation fed into this Septic well.
4 or 5 prior decades had established complete "settling" of the house.
Basement was prone to flooding, and oft wet and moldy.
And yet, no rain gutters.

At some point before 6 years ago, the Upflush Pump was replaced, again with unknown power rating.
No rain gutters were installed.

About 6 years ago, the submersible Upflush Pump was removed.
In it's place was put an overpowered pump for the purpose of removing water from the top of the dirt floor of the basement.
Since that time, the drainage tile has never again been allowed to drain, until perhaps this past week, when the water level was briefly lowered below the drain tile outlet. If the water in the foundation tiling ever evaporated or leaked down in the dirt below the foundation, it was kept full/flooded by laundry waste water and condensate.
This has maintained a flooded, waterlogged, saturated foundation for 6 years.
No rain gutters were installed.


After 5 years of having a house on a foundation of quicksand, many folk can understand what would happen. Evidence of the building sinking was posted in a picture last year in this thread - not sure which date. With the building having sunk about 1 1/2", the weight of the house was greater that the weight of the dirt lawn in front of the house, so the 2" front sewer pipe had been sheered off, near to the basement wall. The wall side of broken pipe was, IIRC, about 1 1/2" lower than the portion of pipe in the lawn.
This sinking into the ground affects all attached structures. The garage is not affected because it is detached. The structure and internal portions of the house have likely become twisted or torqued.
At that time, no rain gutters were installed.

Last fall, rain gutters were installed.


Currently, after 6 years of keeping the foundation submerged in water, the pump is still set to keep the drainage tile flooded. The proper power rating for this pump is far less than 1/3 hp, but a full 1.0 hp pump is sitting there. A Pedestal style pump would provide the greatest function and well volume, but a submersible is displacing all of the volume capacity of the well below the tile inlet tube.



Yeah. I know dude. I'm an asshole.

I'm working on it.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 8:09 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Any ideas, JSF?

In your big back yard, the large part both behind your house and the backside of your garage - is it all flat? Is any part of it lower than your garage slab and sand pit?
I thought you said your back door neighbor was lower than you, he's in flood zone?

Back is dry.

So what?
What is the elevation? in the middle of your back yard, or even on the far property line, is the yard higher or lower than the grasas near your garage?

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 8:15 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'm fair certain I know what is going on and how to fix it, but I cannot force you to do anything.


I cannot see WHERE to make things work. That is what I need you to tell me.

Getting plumbing from the kitchen to the back would be almost impossible without some sort of pump action because of the layout of the house. I couldn't just go under the crawl and then magically make it shoot into the crap tube without going directly through the laundry room and hallway.

NOW you are starting to catch on.

From kitchen to CEILING of finished basement.

I have tried asking you, in several different ways, but without much luck.

A pump would push the water to there. You could use a newer well, near the connecting door to the dirt floor. even a surface well, like a big bucket, or even a kiddie pool. you could even use a 2" hose, but that would be more expensive.


Can't do it.
???
Perhaps I spoke too soon.
For one reply there, it seemed that you were starting to catch on.
But now it seems you have lost your understanding.
Quote:



It's a tri-level.

I got that.
Quote:

The ceiling of the finished basement is the floor of the 2nd floor (level 2.0). The kitchen is on the first floor (level 1.5). The sink drain drain itself isn't even as high as the basement ceiling.
I thought we already agreed on all that.
Quote:


It would have to go straight through livable space in the basement (level 1.0),

Yes, the ceiling of the livable space in the basement
Quote:


so you'd either be crawling under it

????
You need to crawl under your ceiling of your finished basement? That doesn't make sense. With the pipe on the ceiling of your finished basement, you should be able to just walk under it normal. Maybe you can explain why you cannot currently walk under your current ceiling in your finished basement.
Quote:


or jumping over it to get from room to room down there.

jumping over your ceiling doesn't make any sense, either. With they pipe on your ceiling, how could you jump over it?
Quote:



I'm assuming this is why there are two drains out of the house. One in front, and one in back.

I don't know if the sump well originally went out into the street or they tapped into it instead of dumping it on the lawn outside. Could be either. That drain out to the street might have just been for the kitchen sink originally.

It looks like the kitchen originally went out the front.
If you see a (former) hole in the wall, maybe the sump originally went out to the yard. Having the condensate added to the sump well would not have changed it into a Septic/sewage well.

Then they converted the sump well into a septic/sewage well by dumping in basement shower and laundry waste water. So then the requirement was that the new Septic/sewage well needed to be sent out the sewer line, not surface septic.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 8:18 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Any ideas, JSF?

In your big back yard, the large part both behind your house and the backside of your garage - is it all flat? Is any part of it lower than your garage slab and sand pit?
I thought you said your back door neighbor was lower than you, he's in flood zone?

Back is dry.

So what?
What is the elevation? in the middle of your back yard, or even on the far property line, is the yard higher or lower than the grasas near your garage?



We've been over that already.

Back of the house is higher than the middle of the yard is higher than the back neighbor's yard.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 8:20 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'm fair certain I know what is going on and how to fix it, but I cannot force you to do anything.


I cannot see WHERE to make things work. That is what I need you to tell me.

Getting plumbing from the kitchen to the back would be almost impossible without some sort of pump action because of the layout of the house. I couldn't just go under the crawl and then magically make it shoot into the crap tube without going directly through the laundry room and hallway.

NOW you are starting to catch on.

From kitchen to CEILING of finished basement.

I have tried asking you, in several different ways, but without much luck.

A pump would push the water to there. You could use a newer well, near the connecting door to the dirt floor. even a surface well, like a big bucket, or even a kiddie pool. you could even use a 2" hose, but that would be more expensive.


Can't do it.
???
Perhaps I spoke too soon.
For one reply there, it seemed that you were starting to catch on.
But now it seems you have lost your understanding.
Quote:



It's a tri-level.

I got that.
Quote:

The ceiling of the finished basement is the floor of the 2nd floor (level 2.0). The kitchen is on the first floor (level 1.5). The sink drain drain itself isn't even as high as the basement ceiling.
I thought we already agreed on all that.
Quote:

Even if it were, there would be no way to wrap it through walls all over the place to eventually end up in the crapper drain. The kitchen door (back door) would block it one way, and the living room door (front door) would block it the other way.

It would have to go straight through livable space in the basement (level 1.0), so you'd either be crawling under it or jumping over it to get from room to room down there.

I'm assuming this is why there are two drains out of the house. One in front, and one in back.

I don't know if the sump well originally went out into the street or they tapped into it instead of dumping it on the lawn outside. Could be either. That drain out to the street might have just been for the kitchen sink originally.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.





I am not, under any circumstances, adding a pump system to get kitchen sink water in the front of the house to the back of the house through tubes that would have to snake every which way through walls and ceilings that would have to be busted out to get pipes back there. Never going to happen while I live here.

I am not even concerned about the kitchen sink in the slightest bit.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 8:21 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


You're kind of being a dick today. I think maybe we both need a break from talking about this, so it's good timing that I'm going to not be here for a few days.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 8:32 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Any ideas, JSF?

In your big back yard, the large part both behind your house and the backside of your garage - is it all flat? Is any part of it lower than your garage slab and sand pit?
I thought you said your back door neighbor was lower than you, he's in flood zone?

Back is dry.

So what?
What is the elevation? in the middle of your back yard, or even on the far property line, is the yard higher or lower than the grasas near your garage?

We've been over that already.

Back of the house is higher than the middle of the yard is higher than the back neighbor's yard.

OK then. You can use (when you have time) that leaf rake again to rake the grass from near the sand pit, between back of house and back-of-garage, towards the far corner of the yard. Only need to rake until you are at a spot that is lower than the sand pit.
Makeing a shallow swale here will allow a direction for water to drain.
It sounds like currently the grass/dirt is too high against the sand pit and maybe porch slab, so there is no place for the water to go. Rake out a few inches of dirt, and the standing water should go away or subside.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 10:50 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Jesus Christ...

I'M UNCLE BOB!!!! :(

This has been my problem with the house the last few years. I'm almost certain of it now.

I was doing some paperwork, waiting for the pump to go off for a time. When that was done, I washed the dishes. When that was done, packed my bags, when that was done, I rolled my smokes for the trip. When that was done, I folded 2 loads of laundry I'd done.

At this point I realized that it had been over 3 hours and 5 minutes since the last time the pump went off (I had gone down there ever so briefly after 2 hours to make sure I hadn't somehow missed a cycle and it was about 2 inches from the high water mark.



At 3 hours and 5 minutes, it was still about an inch lower than the high water mark. Who knows how long the next cycle would have taken. Another hour? 2 hours? 6 hours? Half a day? More?




Long story short, I have a 20 minute video I'm going to have to evaluate for times. I wasn't planning on being down there that long and I was in my boxers, so I'm hurting now because there was no way I was going to pop a squat in my undies.


But here's the basics...

I forced the pump to go off and held it until the unit was sucking in air. Once it got to about 1.5" above the inside wall of the bottom of the 4" inlet, water started RUSHING in as it continued to go down, but then slowed a bit. It didn't take long for that well to get back up to the bottom of the inside diameter.

I then forced the pump on again until it started sucking air. Water was still coming in this time, but rather than rushing it was just coming in fast enough where it was still forcing itself inward to teh center of the well. I let that fill up again to the inside diameter.

I forced the pump on till it sucked air a third time. Water still coming in, but now the trickle was slow enough that instead of forcing its way inward to the center of the well, the flow was low enough where it was falling back toward the wall of the well instead. Despite my crouching position, I waited about 8 or 9 minutes until it was at the inside diameter again.

I forced the pump on a 4th time until it sucked air.

It may or may not have been slower than the 3rd time. Probably? But I wasn't going to wait around in that position again.



All that water wanted to come in, but couldn't.



It's probably about 3", maybe 4" from the pump sucking in air to the bottom of the inside diameter of the pipe. In less than 20 minutes, I removed a further 9 to 12" of water, when it might have taken hours or even a day to let the 1 final inch in the well necessary to make that pump go off again.



All of that water, for years now, remaining along the foundation of the house and not allowing the ground water to seep into the well. Every time I did the laundry, I was adding more water outside.


Fuck me.




Anyhow... It's obvious you're not a fan of my process JSF, but I do want to thank you so far for all that you've done. It's been a lot of help to me to bounce ideas off of somebody and stay on point.


First thing I'm doing when I get back is digging that well out and getting that pump low enough that it never even touches the drain. After that, we can discuss the pros and cons to different sump types and what HP I should have.

Thanks again.



--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 11:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Jesus Christ...

I'M UNCLE BOB!!!! :(

This has been my problem with the house the last few years. I'm almost certain of it now.

I was doing some paperwork, waiting for the pump to go off for a time. When that was done, I washed the dishes. When that was done, packed my bags, when that was done, I rolled my smokes for the trip. When that was done, I folded 2 loads of laundry I'd done.

At this point I realized that it had been over 3 hours and 5 minutes since the last time the pump went off (I had gone down there ever so briefly after 2 hours to make sure I hadn't somehow missed a cycle and it was about 2 inches from the high water mark.



At 3 hours and 5 minutes, it was still about an inch lower than the high water mark. Who knows how long the next cycle would have taken. Another hour? 2 hours? 6 hours? Half a day? More?




Long story short, I have a 20 minute video I'm going to have to evaluate for times. I wasn't planning on being down there that long and I was in my boxers, so I'm hurting now because there was no way I was going to pop a squat in my undies.


But here's the basics...

I forced the pump to go off and held it until the unit was sucking in air. Once it got to about 1.5" above the inside wall of the bottom of the 4" inlet, water started RUSHING in as it continued to go down, but then slowed a bit. It didn't take long for that well to get back up to the bottom of the inside diameter.

I then forced the pump on again until it started sucking air. Water was still coming in this time, but rather than rushing it was just coming in fast enough where it was still forcing itself inward to teh center of the well. I let that fill up again to the inside diameter.

I forced the pump on till it sucked air a third time. Water still coming in, but now the trickle was slow enough that instead of forcing its way inward to the center of the well, the flow was low enough where it was falling back toward the wall of the well instead. Despite my crouching position, I waited about 8 or 9 minutes until it was at the inside diameter again.

I forced the pump on a 4th time until it sucked air.

It may or may not have been slower than the 3rd time. Probably? But I wasn't going to wait around in that position again.



All that water wanted to come in, but couldn't.



It's probably about 3", maybe 4" from the pump sucking in air to the bottom of the inside diameter of the pipe. In less than 20 minutes, I removed a further 9 to 12" of water, when it might have taken hours or even a day to let the 1 final inch in the well necessary to make that pump go off again.



All of that water, for years now, remaining along the foundation of the house and not allowing the ground water to seep into the well. Every time I did the laundry, I was adding more water outside.


Fuck me.




Anyhow... It's obvious you're not a fan of my process JSF, but I do want to thank you so far for all that you've done. It's been a lot of help to me to bounce ideas off of somebody and stay on point.


First thing I'm doing when I get back is digging that well out and getting that pump low enough that it never even touches the drain. After that, we can discuss the pros and cons to different sump types and what HP I should have.

Thanks again.



--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

This ...is as clear as mud. I've been following along as best as I can, but without a diagram I can't make head or tail of what you're saying.

Either you don't understand how water works, or your explanation is garbled.

Water ...preventing water from coming in??

How does THAT work??? When you get a chance please explain this step-by-step as if you were eplaining to an idiot.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 11:18 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


The water in the well is higher than the french drain. Or at the very least it's high enough that it's preventing more water from coming in when the entire 4" inlet pipe is submerged under 18.5" diameter and 4" height of water.

It took over an hour for 1" of water to make its way in under those conditions.

Once I got the pump to lower the water under the inlet, it only took 20 minutes for me allow 9 to 12" more of water into the well by making sure to empty the well immediately when it filled up to the bottom of the 4" inlet from the french drain.

*sigh*

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Sunday, May 16, 2021 11:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them. SECOND: I am so very sorry I libelled you by labelling you a Russian Troll. I apologize for this. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=64646&p=2


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
The water in the well is higher than the french drain.

How is that even possible? Water flows downhill. The greater the difference in height, the greater the water pressure.

If the water in the well is higher than the French drain, then water would be flowing from the well to the drain, not the othe way around.

Quote:

Or at the very least it's high enough that it's preventing more water from coming in when the entire 4" inlet pipe is submerged under 18.5" diameter and 4" height of water.
Diameter has nothing to with it. But it standsto reason that if there's no - or little- height difference between the water level in the welland the water that you're trying to drain, it won't flow into the well.

Quote:

It took over an hour for 1" of water to make its way in under those conditions.

Once I got the pump to lower the water under the inlet, it only took 20 minutes for me allow 9 to 12" more of water into the well by making sure to empty the well immediately when it filled up to the bottom of the 4" inlet from the french drain.

And what does this have to do with the laundry and shower?

So, if the pump going off a million times an hour is bothering you, then it would make sense to lower the well so that water can enter more freely, and lower the float (or switch, or what have you) that turns the pump "off" so that it empties more completely before shutting off.

But if you're having problemswith the total VOLUME of water that needs to be pumped out (and it sounds like you do) then you need to manage the way water flows... specifically, make it flow away from your house, downhill, so it doesn't trickle down to your foundation.


Anyway, you got places to go, people to see, and things to do. Get back to me when you have a chance.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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