In the garden, and RAIN!!!! by SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Basically, since the 4" French drain outlet (inlet to the well) is submerged for a long time before the pump comes on, the French drain never properly drains the foundation.

So the pump needs to turn on BEFORE the French drain oulet (inlet to the well) is submerged.

Well, of course!

Also, we have been telling SIX for YEARS that filling the sump well with laundry and shower water is going to be counterproductive to the sump being effective, since its being tasked with not only emptying the water from the foundation but also washing machine water(and washing machines pump out a LOT of water) as well as the shower. And since the pump doesn't turn on until the French drain is submerged by quite a few inches, the wash machine and laundry might be, in effect, pumping water into the tile under the foundation.

BTW KIKI, I did look up IN state code on sanitary v storm sewers, and it appears that they're combined.

Anyway, there might be another issue, and that is the TOTAL VOLUME of water being pumped by the sump pump.

In scrolling back thru the posts, the one piece of info that I couldn't find is the TOTAL DROP IN WATER LEVEL IN THE SUMP from when the pump turns on (at this point, belatedly) and when it turns off,in inches (H). Maybe the info is there and I just can't find it. But for sake of argument, let's say the water level drops 10".

With a diameter of 18.5" (radius of 9.25") the TOTAL VOLUME IN CUBIC INCHES of water emptied per pump cycle would be pi*r^2*H or 85.56* 3.1415* 10= 2,688 cu in or

1.55 cu ft per pump cycle, minimum.

Now, on day 1, SIX says the pump went off 119 times. Thats 185 CUBIC FEET of water being pumped out from around his foundation.

On day 2 it went off 83 times, for 129 cu ft.

on day 3 it went off 68 times for 105 cu ft

So over three days, he pumped approx 420 CUBIC FEET of water out from around his foundation.

THAT'S A LOT OF WATER!

(Again, that's assuming a 10" drop in water levels per pump cycle. If the drop in water level is less than 10" you can proportionate the water volume down. But that doesn't count that fact that water is trickling in at the same time that it's being pumped out, so whatever figure you calculate based on water level drop is a MINIMUM, and is bound to be higher.)

Why is there so much water being pumped out???

SIX discovered one problem: a broken sewer line near the foundation. Water was being dumped out of the sewer line and right back down around his foundation, so it was constantly being pumped out... and infiltrating back down again.

A bad possiblity is that there's another break in the sewer line further from the house, but stll close enough to direct water back to his foundation. Or that the laundry tub/shower is adding to his foundation-water woes. (A wash machine can dump out 30 cu ft of water per cycle).

Another possibility is that donwspout water is ponding right around his house, and the mole tunnels are helping the water infiltrate downward, towards his foundation. Proper grading can take care of that problem. Getting water to pond somewhere downhill and away from the house wouldsolve that problem.

Another - and less solvable problem- is the unlined drainage ditch that's higher than his house, which is riddled with muskrat holes. The ditch itself may be saturating the subsoil with water, and if it's higher than his lot water may be flowing underground towards his foundation. The fix for that would be to line the ditch with concrete, at least for the 50' or so directly across from his house.

But if his house is the only house on hs side of the street with a saturated foundation, then the problem is likely from his house, not the ditch, and

1) making sure that the pump empties the sump BEFORE the 4" inlet tile is submerged and
2) making sure that there are no leaks from the sewer line dumping water back around his foundation and
3) grading the dirt around his house and leading downspout water away from, and downhill from, his house

should fix most of the problems.

I wonder if there's some sort of tracer dye that hydrologists use to track underground water flow. If there is such a thing, then (after the pump is reset or replaced, and empties the sump properly) filling the sump with tracer and watching to see if comes back via the 4" inlet might be a cheap test for a broken sewer line.

SIX, SILVER MAPLES ARE NOTORIOUS WATER-SEEKERS. IF THERE IS ANY SEEPAGE FROM A SMALL CRACK IN A SEWER LINE, ROOTS WILL GROW TOWARDS IT, INVADE THE LINE, AND EVENTUALLY WEDGE THE CRACK LARGER AND LARGER. wE KNOW BECAUSE WE HAD A GINORMOUS SILVER MAPLE ABOUT 15' FROM OUR SEWER LINE AND IT WAS CONSTANTLY PLUGGING IT UP WITH ROOTS.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, May 17, 2021 9:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
The water in the well is higher than the french drain.
How is that even possible? Water flows downhill. The greater the difference in height, the greater the water pressure.

I know how gravity works.

What I don't know, is how the french drain was installed. If it's like everything else in this house, the answer to that question is "wrong".

THIS is why I was diligently waiting for the "drop off" point.

I knew that I wasn't going to get the average addition to the sump cycle forever. But I also knew that I regularly had standing water in the well now when I never did before I put that pump in and it was letting the water get almost to the top of the well before cycling on.

The drop off point came last night, right after we went from 1 hour and 17 minutes in the morning to 1 hour and 49 minutes at 6:00PM.

At 8:00PM I went down to check that I hadn't missed a cycle since it still hadn't gone on. 11 minutes would have been a feasable jump given the increases we had yesterday (I knew we were getting to the end). The well was about 2" from the top.

At 9:05PM I wend down again and we were still only 1" from the top.

That's when I forced it all the way down to the bottom of the pump.

It took 2 minutes after I did that for the well to fill an additional 4 to 5" and get back up to the inlet pipe. I pulled it a 2nd time and it took 4 to 6 minutes to get back up to the inlet pipe. I pulled it a 3rd time and it took the rest of 20 minutes to get back to the inlet (I have a video of it I need to look at for exact times... I don't know them, but that first one wasn't any more than 2 minutes).

So do I know exactly what's happening? No. I have no idea what that french drain looks like.

But I do know that in 20 minutes I got 9 to 12" of water additional in a well that was took one hour to only let 1" in.

If the french drain forms a v in front and practically goes vertical into the well from there, then there's always water in that french drain.

The pipe is perforated. So if there's always water in the french drain, there's always water against my foundation. I believe this to be the cause of my abnormal settling issues.

Quote:
If the water in the well is higher than the French drain, then water would be flowing from the well to the drain, not the othe way around.

Yup. That's my point.

Quote:
Diameter has nothing to with it. But it standsto reason that if there's no - or little- height difference between the water level in the welland the water that you're trying to drain, it won't flow into the well.

There probably isn't much difference. At least where the inlet into the well is concerned. It doesn't need much.

All I know is when the inlet wasn't covered, I was able to get enough to make 1.5 more cycles worth of water into the well in 20 minutes when it wasn't even pushing 1" into the well in an hour's time on its own when the water was high.

Quote:
Quote:
It took over an hour for 1" of water to make its way in under those conditions.

Once I got the pump to lower the water under the inlet, it only took 20 minutes for me allow 9 to 12" more of water into the well by making sure to empty the well immediately when it filled up to the bottom of the 4" inlet from the french drain.
And what does this have to do with the laundry and shower?

If the well is always full because it's not getting the last of the water out, then when I do a load of laundry and dump 2 more cycles into the well it's just pushing more water outside that well.

[quot]So, if the pump going off a million times an hour is bothering you, then it would make sense to lower the well so that water can enter more freely, and lower the float (or switch, or what have you) that turns the pump "off" so that it empties more completely before shutting off.

Yup.

Quote:
But if you're having problemswith the total VOLUME of water that needs to be pumped out (and it sounds like you do) then you need to manage the way water flows... specifically, make it flow away from your house, downhill, so it doesn't trickle down to your foundation.

Working on it.

But what this also means is that if the well is always full, instead of removing water immediately as it's raining by allowing it to trickle in constantly, it's got to sit there and wait for enough to be outside to force it in.

I'm assuming this is why last year during the horrible rains I'd hear it go off after an hour and think it was fine. Then it would go off in a half hour, then 15 minutes, then 5 minutes, then less.

That well is gross now. There was never that buildup of sludge, mold and whatever else is in there on either of the last two pumps I had.

Quote:
Anyway, you got places to go, people to see, and things to do. Get back to me when you have a chance.

My ride isn't here yet.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, May 17, 2021 11:13 AM

THG

Just an oversight I'm sure but you forgot to source this when posting it into the COVID thread. Why you have such a need to post books instead of short concise posts is beyond me. Posts that then let the reader decide if they wish to follow a link to read the article for themselves.

Perhaps you do not realize it is a nuisance to all who have to scroll forever to get past it so they can post. Perhaps it is a nuisance for you to see it reposted in your garden thread and become an irritant to those who have to scroll forever to get beyond it here.

Again, you’ve posted no link so people can check the articles source and veracity.

T

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
A Timeline Of "The Great Reset" Agenda

Authored by Tim Hinchliffe via GlobalResearch.ca,

Say it’s 2014 and you’ve had this idea for a technocratic Great Reset of the world economy for some time now, but it only works if the entire planet is rocked by a pandemic. How do you go about selling your idea?

“The pandemic represents a rare but narrow window of opportunity to reflect, reimagine, and reset our world to create a healthier, more equitable, and more prosperous future” — Klaus Schwab, WEF

If you are World Economic Forum (WEF) Founder Klaus Schwab, you attempt to sell your vision of a global Utopia via a Great Reset of the world order in three simple steps:

Announce your intention to revamp every aspect of society with global governance, and keep repeating that message

When your message isn’t getting through, simulate fake pandemic scenarios that show why the world needs a great reset

If the fake pandemic scenarios aren’t persuasive enough, wait a couple months for a real global crisis to occur, and repeat step one

It took Schwab and the Davos elite about six years to watch their great reset ideology grow from a tiny Swiss seed in 2014 to a European super-flower pollinating the entire globe in 2020.

The so-called “Great Reset” promises to build “a more secure, more equal, and more stable world” if everyone on the planet agrees to “act jointly and swiftly to revamp all aspects of our societies and economies, from education to social contracts and working conditions.”

But it wouldn’t have been possible to contemplate materializing such an all-encompassing plan for a new world order without a global crisis, be it manufactured or of unfortunate happenstance, that shocked society to its core.

“In the end, the outcome was tragic: the most catastrophic pandemic in history with hundreds of millions of deaths, economic collapse and societal upheaval” — Clade X pandemic simulation (May, 2018)

So, in May, 2018, the WEF partnered with Johns Hopkins to simulate a fictitious pandemic — dubbed “Clade X” — to see how prepared the world be if ever faced with such a crisis.

A little over a year later, the WEF once again teamed-up with Johns Hopkins, along with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, to stage another pandemic exercise called Event 201 in October, 2019.

Both simulations concluded that the world wasn’t prepared for a global pandemic.

And a few short months following the conclusion of Event 201, which specifically simulated a coronavirus outbreak, the World Health Organization (WHO) officially declared that the coronavirus had reached pandemic status on March 11, 2020.

“The next severe pandemic will not only cause great illness and loss of life but could also trigger major cascading economic and societal consequences that could contribute greatly to global impact and suffering” — Event 201 pandemic simulation (October, 2019)

Since then, just about every scenario covered in the Clade X and Event 201 simulations has come into play, including:

Governments implementing lockdowns worldwide

The collapse of many industries

Growing mistrust between governments and citizens

A greater adoption of biometric surveillance technologies

Social media censorship in the name of combating misinformation

The desire to flood communication channels with “authoritative” sources

A global lack of personal protective equipment

The breakdown of international supply chains

Mass unemployment

Rioting in the streets

And a whole lot more!

After the nightmare scenarios had fully materialized by mid-2020, the WEF founder declared “now is the time for a “Great Reset” in June of this year.

Was it excellent forecasting, planning, and modeling on the part of the WEF and partners that Clade X and Event 201 turned out to be so prophetic, or was there something more to it?
Timeline

Below is a condensed timeline of events that tracks the Great Reset agenda that went from just a “hope” in 2014 to a globalist ideology touted by royalty, the media, and heads of state the world-over in 2020.

2014-2017: Klaus Schwab calls for Great Reset and WEF repeats message

Ahead of the 2014 WEF meeting in Davos, Switzerland, Schwab announced that he hoped the WEF would push the reset button on the global economy.

The ‘Great Reset’: A Technocratic Agenda that Waited Years for a Global Crisis to Exploit

The WEF would go on to repeat that message for years.

Between 2014 and 2017, the WEF called to reshape, restart, reboot, and reset the global order every single year, each aimed at solving various “crises.”

2014: WEF publishes meeting agenda entitled “The Reshaping of the World: Consequences for Society, Politics and Business.”

2015: WEF publishes article in collaboration with VOX EU called “We need to press restart on the global economy.”

2016: WEF holds panel called “How to reboot the global economy.”

2017: WEF publishes article saying “Our world needs a reset in how we operate.”

Then in 2018, the Davos elites turned their heads towards simulating fake pandemic scenarios to see how prepared the world would be in the face of a different crisis.

2018-2019: WEF, Johns Hopkins & Gates Foundation simulate fake pandemics

On May 15, 2018, Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security hosted the “Clade X” pandemic exercise in partnership with the WEF.

The Clade X exercise included mock video footage of actors giving scripted news reports about a fake pandemic scenario (video below).

The Clade X event also included discussion panels with real policymakers who assessed that governments and industry were not adequately prepared for the fictitious global pandemic.

“In the end, the outcome was tragic: the most catastrophic pandemic in history with hundreds of millions of deaths, economic collapse and societal upheaval,” according to a WEF report on Clade X.

“There are major unmet global vulnerabilities and international system challenges posed by pandemics that will require new robust forms of public-private cooperation to address” — Event 201 pandemic simulation (October, 2019)

Then on October 18, 2019, in partnership with Johns Hopkins and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the WEF ran Event 201.

During the scenario, the entire global economy was shaken, there were riots on the streets, and high-tech surveillance measures were needed to “stop the spread.”

Two fake pandemics were simulated in the two years leading up to the real coronavirus crisis.

“Governments will need to partner with traditional and social media companies to research and develop nimble approaches to countering misinformation” — Event 201 pandemic simulation (October, 2019)

The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security issued a public statement on January 24, 2020, explicitly addressing that Event 201 wasn’t meant to predict the future.

“To be clear, the Center for Health Security and partners did not make a prediction during our tabletop exercise. For the scenario, we modeled a fictional coronavirus pandemic, but we explicitly stated that it was not a prediction. Instead, the exercise served to highlight preparedness and response challenges that would likely arise in a very severe pandemic.”

Intentional or not, Event 201 “highlighted” the “fictional” challenges of a pandemic, along with recommendations that go hand-in-hand with the great reset agenda that has set up camp in the nefarious “new normal.”

“The next severe pandemic will not only cause great illness and loss of life but could also trigger major cascading economic and societal consequences that could contribute greatly to global impact and suffering” — Event 201 pandemic simulation (October, 2019)

Together, the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, the World Economic Forum, and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation submitted seven recommendations for governments, international organizations, and global business to follow in the event of a pandemic.

The Event 201 recommendations call for greater collaboration between the public and private sectors while emphasizing the importance of establishing partnerships with un-elected, global institutions such as the WHO, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, and the International Air Transport Organization, to carry out a centralized response.

One of the recommendations calls for governments to partner with social media companies and news organization to censor content and control the flow of information.

“Media companies should commit to ensuring that authoritative messages are prioritized and that false messages are suppressed including though [sic] the use of technology” — Event 201 pandemic simulation (October, 2019)

According to the report, “Governments will need to partner with traditional and social media companies to research and develop nimble approaches to countering misinformation.

“National public health agencies should work in close collaboration with WHO to create the capability to rapidly develop and release consistent health messages.

“For their part, media companies should commit to ensuring that authoritative messages are prioritized and that false messages are suppressed including though [sic] the use of technology.”

Sound familiar?

Throughout 2020, Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube have been censoring, suppressing, and flagging any coronavirus-related information that goes against WHO recommendations as a matter of policy, just as Event 201 had recommended.

Big tech companies have also deployed the same content suppression tactics during the 2020 US presidential election — slapping “disputed” claims on content that question election integrity.

2020: WEF declares ‘Now is the time for a Great Reset’

After calling for a great reset in 2014, the Davos crowd repeated the same ideology for a few more years before pivoting towards simulating faux pandemic scenarios.

A few months after the WEF established that nobody was prepared to deal with a coronavirus pandemic, the WHO declared there was a coronavirus pandemic.

All of a sudden! the great reset narrative that the WEF had been nurturing for six years, found a place to pitch its tent in the “new normal” camp.

“The pandemic represents a rare but narrow window of opportunity to reflect, reimagine, and reset our world to create a healthier, more equitable, and more prosperous future,” Schwab declared on June 3, 2020.

And that’s where we’re at today.

The Davos elites said they wanted a global reset of the economy many years ago

They role-played what would happen if a pandemic were to occur

And now they’re saying that the great reset ideology is the solution to the pandemic, and it must be enacted quickly

The great reset is a means to an end.

Next on the agenda is a complete makeover of society under a technocratic regime of un-elected bureaucrats who want to dictate how the world is run from the top down, leveraging invasive technologies to track and trace your every move while censoring and silencing anyone who dares not comply.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, May 17, 2021 3:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Basically, since the 4" French drain outlet (inlet to the well) is submerged for a long time before the pump comes on, the French drain never properly drains the foundation.

So the pump needs to turn on BEFORE the French drain oulet (inlet to the well) is submerged.

Well, of course!

Also, we have been telling SIX for YEARS that filling the sump well with laundry and shower water is going to be counterproductive to the sump being effective, since its being tasked with not only emptying the water from the foundation but also washing machine water(and washing machines pump out a LOT of water) as well as the shower. And since the pump doesn't turn on until the French drain is submerged by quite a few inches, the wash machine and laundry might be, in effect, pumping water into the tile under the foundation.

BTW KIKI, I did look up IN state code on sanitary v storm sewers, and it appears that they're combined.

Anyway, there might be another issue, and that is the TOTAL VOLUME of water being pumped by the sump pump.

In scrolling back thru the posts, the one piece of info that I couldn't find is the TOTAL DROP IN WATER LEVEL IN THE SUMP from when the pump turns on (at this point, belatedly) and when it turns off,in inches (H). Maybe the info is there and I just can't find it. But for sake of argument, let's say the water level drops 10".

He said it is 7". Half of that is above the top of the pump casing, and half is below the top of the pump casing.
Quote:

With a diameter of 18.5" (radius of 9.25") the TOTAL VOLUME IN CUBIC INCHES of water emptied per pump cycle would be pi*r^2*H or 85.56* 3.1415* 10= 2,688 cu in or

1.55 cu ft per pump cycle, minimum.

Now, on day 1, SIX says the pump went off 119 times. Thats 185 CUBIC FEET of water being pumped out from around his foundation.

On day 2 it went off 83 times, for 129 cu ft.

on day 3 it went off 68 times for 105 cu ft

So over three days, he pumped approx 420 CUBIC FEET of water out from around his foundation.

THAT'S A LOT OF WATER!

(Again, that's assuming a 10" drop in water levels per pump cycle. If the drop in water level is less than 10" you can proportionate the water volume down. But that doesn't count that fact that water is trickling in at the same time that it's being pumped out, so whatever figure you calculate based on water level drop is a MINIMUM, and is bound to be higher.)

Why is there so much water being pumped out???

SIX discovered one problem: a broken sewer line near the foundation. Water was being dumped out of the sewer line and right back down around his foundation, so it was constantly being pumped out... and infiltrating back down again.

A bad possiblity is that there's another break in the sewer line further from the house, but stll close enough to direct water back to his foundation. Or that the laundry tub/shower is adding to his foundation-water woes. (A wash machine can dump out 30 cu ft of water per cycle).
Almost certainly. But he does not want to hear about it, and only argues about it.
The pump is at least 4 times more powerful than the maximum power needed, as much as 10 times the max power needed. Unlike supply water plumbing, which must withstand high pressure, sewer lines and pipes are NOT made to withstand pressure, other than backlog pressure - they function on gravity flow all the way to the sewage plant, unless city planned pumps, like New Orleans.
Battering the sewer pipes with constant pressure surges has surely caused numerous blowouts, under the front lawn, under the porch, under the shed, next to the garage, under the sand pit, under the back yard, and perhaps the main sewer pipe out the back wall. Maybe he could put in even more powerful pumps, like 2 hp, and have water fountains throughout his yards, spouting several times per hour.
A 1/4 hp pump is used to push water 20 feet straight up (vertically). He needs to push this septic water about 40 or 50 inches straight up, and from there, water could drain via gravity if it wasn't blasting such high pressure. Some standard sump pumps are 1/3 hp. An Upflush Pump with macerator included is 1/2 hp. He has a full 1.0 hp pump he is using to blow out all of his sewer pipes.

Quote:

Another possibility is that donwspout water is ponding right around his house, and the mole tunnels are helping the water infiltrate downward, towards his foundation. Proper grading can take care of that problem. Getting water to pond somewhere downhill and away from the house wouldsolve that problem.

Another - and less solvable problem- is the unlined drainage ditch that's higher than his house, which is riddled with muskrat holes. The ditch itself may be saturating the subsoil with water, and if it's higher than his lot water may be flowing underground towards his foundation. The fix for that would be to line the ditch with concrete, at least for the 50' or so directly across from his house.

But if his house is the only house on hs side of the street with a saturated foundation, then the problem is likely from his house, not the ditch, and

1) making sure that the pump empties the sump BEFORE the 4" inlet tile is submerged and
2) making sure that there are no leaks from the sewer line dumping water back around his foundation and
3) grading the dirt around his house and leading downspout water away from, and downhill from, his house

should fix most of the problems.

The depth levels of the well may be like this:
Effectively, the top rim of the well he reports as the current High Water Mark, where the pump turns on.
4 1/2" below the rim is the top lip of the 4" inlet tube.
2 1/2" more, or 7" below the rim, is the current Low Water Mark, where the Pump turns off.
1 1/2" more, or 8 1/2" below the rim, is the bottom lip of the inlet pipe.
Perhaps another 5" more (or 3", he was unclear), or about 13 1/2" is the current level where the pump starts sucking air.
He indicated that this was about 16", so I don't know where the discrepancy was. Maybe 16" is to the top of the brick that he sat the pump on top of.
He thinks the brick is 2", so the well depth to the stones where the brick sits on top of would be 18" - but he guessed that, or estimated.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, May 17, 2021 4:19 PM

Merging more than one prior pertinent posts.
This all would be below the Kitchen floor, in the crawlspace.

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
6ix,
Sump Pump Discharge.

I am going to explain how a normal Sump system works, You might already know some of this, or all of it, but this is to establish a common reference point.
For various reasons, this does not apply to you, but we will work towards some of the solutions I have.

Sump Pump has it's discharge pipe going up to the ceiling of the basement/space, from the bottom of the well. This is often PVC pipe.
This pipe will eventually go outside the wall of the house, and usually above the top of the concrete block, so it is merely going through a hole in the wood wall. This means the upward pipe reaches up into the ceiling, between the floor joists of the floor above. Then it turns horizontal to go out through the wooden wall.
Once outside, the pipe turns down and the discharge water can be directed or not. If not, then some concrete or rock splash surface can get hit by the discharge. At my house, I had to add an elbow and a few feet of straight PVC to get past my the edge of my house.

With this setup, during pumping, the discharge water shoots out of my 1 1/2" pipe about 10 feet horizontally.
When the pump cycle stops, the water that has already reached the peak height of the pipe then drains via gravity out the outside pipe. The water which has not reached the full height of the pipe settles back down via gravity to the bottom of the well.

One of the reasons you cannot do this is because you do not actually have a sump pump, yours is a Septic/Sewage pump. You cannot discharge that outside.

We do need to pump your discharge to a sewer pipe leaving your house.

Your current problem(s).
Your pump is creating pressure. Water supply plumbing is intended to sustain and endure pressure. That is the water coming in.
Waste water, sewer water piping is not designed or intended to withstand pressure - it is intended to solely endure gravity pressure.
So when your pump discharge is forcing high pressure into your sewer pipes, they are not made to endure that. All around your house, where that kitchen drainage pipe goes, to your back yard to join with your main crap pipe, and then (during flooding) back into your house via the main crap pipe to push your toilet water out - all of that is being subjected to excessive pressure. I have no doubt that all of those seams, joints, etc are "leaking" radically everytime your current pump runs.
This means that your pressure leaks are then filtering back down to your tiling, back into your sump well, and you recycle the whole works all over again - no matter if there is rain or not.
When we remove the pressure element and allow only gravity flow , then we will be able to find out how well your pipes have survived.

Ways for us to avoid/reroute/eliminate your current problems.
We need to use gravity to let out your discharge water.

Enclosed PVC pipe alternative.
Based upon your measurements, and I want a total of 10" drop from Pump Start to Pump Stop, we can also make an enclosed pipe pressure alleviation setup.
Conjure this: your discharge pipe goes straight up, as high as it can, in between the floor joist beams of the kitchen floor. 2 Elbows turn the pipe first horizontal and then down (this creates the peak height), and then another elbow makes it horizontal again, all of this in between the floor joists. This is all still the same diameter PVC pipe that you already have. Then you have adapters to greatly expand the size of the pipe, for a distance - maybe even a U-turn if you run out of room. At the end of this large pipe, elbow angles down about 45 degrees to the side, then reducers to get back to the original size, and then into your existing join with the kitchen discharge.
This extra sized pipe would have capacity to accept all of the well pump volume, while dissipating all of the pressure, and turning it into gravity flow.
the large pipe could be one of the following: 4" diam x 54" length, 5" x 36", 6" x 24", 7" x 18", 8" x 14".

Extra length is no harm, just have the reducer at a down-slope part of the piping.

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I'd probably need some sort of diagram to put together what you're saying on number two, but I think I get the general concept.
I'll try to explain more basically.
Conjure you have a pipe going straight down. High pressure water comes in at the top, for a specific mount of time, say 22 seconds. At some point, the pipe expands in size, from 1.5" diameter to suddenly 8" diameter, and goes for several feet in length. Then the pipe get reduced again to the original 1.5" diameter, and continues to flow onward. Inside this "chamber" the water is no longer pressurized, constrained by the walls of the pipe, but becomes a purely gravity-flow velocity, until/unless the entire chamber becomes full of water, then the pressure would be transferred to the output of the chamber. But with only 8 gallons of water in 22 seconds, the chamber never does become full of water. This is similar to a deep sink collecting pressurized water and then draining that volume of water, without pressure, using only gravity flow.
Now, turn that chamber to horizontal, so that it fits in your crawl space without dropping too far down that it cannot connect with your kitchen sewer pipe.

I might try a diagram.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, May 17, 2021 4:47 PM

Nice walk on a sunny day when the weather people were calling for rain.

Family doc's got the report on my mammogram this morning. Found that out when I went in to make an appointment to see her. She came out of an exam room as I said I had it done and she mentioned it to the nurse. Long story short the nurse waited to see if I needed to come in today or wait. Appointment made for next Tuesday, so I am guessing since I wasn't hauled in right then and there that all is okay.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, May 17, 2021 11:19 PM

And the rain is back.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2021 4:16 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Been too busy to post much. The weather has been mostly cool enuf for outdoor work so far. Half of the backyard was beaten into shape, but dear daughter and I need to blitz the front yard to prune and weed. I estimate about 20 hours of work from each of us will do the trick. So today she put in a diligent 2 hours and I put in three, and we filled up one bin with weeds and clippings.

Plus I took some clippings from a shiny-leaf mahonia bush and a Catalina Island cherry tree that are growing quite nicely, so I'm trying to start at least one more of each.

Also trying to complete my "end of year" filing, which I had to halt because I ran out of file folders. Now that I have more, I can finally finish.

And while doing some filing xfering our utility bills from paper to computer (I like to check and see whether our use is going up or down over the years) I realized my photos were all effed up. As it turns out, the time and datestamp metadata from the camera was being almost randomly-assigned, and conflicted with the PC metadata, so I had to ask some friends some really stupid questions like ... uh, what year were you married? When was your first baby born? ... to find out which was a reliable time/datestamp. The PC info wins - at least, it has the right month and year.

So, busy busy busy trying to bring order to chaos in all directions.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2021 4:20 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

FWIW JSF, your diagram displayed properly on my PC.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2021 4:22 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Nice walk on a sunny day when the weather people were calling for rain.

Family doc's got the report on my mammogram this morning. Found that out when I went in to make an appointment to see her. She came out of an exam room as I said I had it done and she mentioned it to the nurse. Long story short the nurse waited to see if I needed to come in today or wait. Appointment made for next Tuesday, so I am guessing since I wasn't hauled in right then and there that all is okay.

You're right: bad news travels faster than no news, at least as far as those kinds of test results.

So it seems things are prolly OK.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2021 7:52 AM

THG

If you want to post the same post over and over again go for it. I'll match it here.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:
• • Countdown Clock, Trump Going to Jail

• • Trump has committed many felonies. The evidence is overwhelming.

• • As I tell my friends regarding all manner of topics, don’t jump to the end. Let things play out.
And yet, unlike your claims that you'll wait for things to run their course, you've already got him convicted and jailed in your mind. You said so yourself as a matter of fact:
"Trump has committed many felonies."
"Trump Going to Jail.".

There's no such thing with you as the American value of innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. You just can't wait for the actual, legal, US justice system to work its way to a conclusion before you lynch him.

You are one of the most anti-American people here.

And you can't quit your obsessive hate because your mind is diseased.

I predict you'll be here, harping about Trump, no matter what happens, until this website shuts down.

Says Polish Russian Collaborator kiki, who has been proclaiming Trumps innocence and deflecting away from the truth on his behalf, since day one. I know the American way and you obviously do not. I am entitled to my own opinion comrade. I am not a court of law and therefore not held to the same standard.

My opinion is based on what has come out in the press and also during his two impeachments. Not on the fake news Russian propaganda bullshit your opinions are based on.

I’ll also take a moment to say, I keep getting proven right again and again and predict that will continue. That comrade, is what you have to look forward to. After years of you claiming his innocence, you’re being shown to be what I have described you to be for years.

tick tock kiki or as you like to say, tic tac

T

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2021 7:55 AM

THG

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

PUTIN!!! RUSSIA!!!TRUMP!!!

THUGGER'S obsession, which he'll never get past, because his mind is diseased.

If only he was a real American, concerned about America.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2021 1:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Nice walk on a sunny day when the weather people were calling for rain.

Family doc's got the report on my mammogram this morning. Found that out when I went in to make an appointment to see her. She came out of an exam room as I said I had it done and she mentioned it to the nurse. Long story short the nurse waited to see if I needed to come in today or wait. Appointment made for next Tuesday, so I am guessing since I wasn't hauled in right then and there that all is okay.
You're right: bad news travels faster than no news, at least as far as those kinds of test results.

So it seems things are prolly OK.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

I agree and it's also what I have found as well over the years.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2021 1:44 PM

Out for my walk in the dry after a wet night and a thunder and lighting storm in another city. I could just hear the rumble and I could see the flashes of lighting.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2021 4:15 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I remember a few years back, I was innocently sitting at the counter of a local restaurant getting a morning coffee, when I got a call from Kaiser telling me I had to come in for a repeat mammogram RIGHT AWAY !!!. And could I come it a 9 or 11 that very same day Saturday, because they wanted to redo it RIGHT AWAY !!!. It was important that they redo it RIGHT AWAY !!!.

I don't remember how many times they said RIGHT AWAY !!!, but it was at least 3. So that's my experience as well.

(It turned out to be a cyst.)

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2021 5:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

I remember a few years back, I was innocently sitting at the counter of a local restaurant getting a morning coffee, when I got a call from Kaiser telling me I had to come in for a repeat mammogram RIGHT AWAY !!!. And could I come it a 9 or 11 that very same day Saturday, because they wanted to redo it RIGHT AWAY !!!. It was important that they redo it RIGHT AWAY !!!.

I don't remember how many times they said RIGHT AWAY !!!, but it was at least 3. So that's my experience as well.

(It turned out to be a cyst.)

I've had a biopsy done on some calcifications they found a few years ago but they were nothing just as I said calcifications. They put a medical chip in me so they can double check the area each time they do a mammogram on me.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2021 5:29 PM

Still dry out the lighting and rain the weather people were talking about for today has not appeared. Unless it rains this evening.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2021 5:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
FWIW JSF, your diagram displayed properly on my PC.

OK, Does the post make sense? The description?
I have edited it since yesterday when I ran out of time.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2021 10:03 PM

Still dry but weather people still saying rain and lighting coming. Maybe over night tonight.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 3:51 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

I remember a few years back, I was innocently sitting at the counter of a local restaurant getting a morning coffee, when I got a call from Kaiser telling me I had to come in for a repeat mammogram RIGHT AWAY !!!. And could I come it a 9 or 11 that very same day Saturday, because they wanted to redo it RIGHT AWAY !!!. It was important that they redo it RIGHT AWAY !!!.

I don't remember how many times they said RIGHT AWAY !!!, but it was at least 3. So that's my experience as well.

(It turned out to be a cyst.)

I've had a biopsy done on some calcifications they found a few years ago but they were nothing just as I said calcifications. They put a medical chip in me so they can double check the area each time they do a mammogram on me.

I'll see you and raise you.

MEN, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ ABOUT LADY PARTS, STOP RIGHT HERE.

OK, YOU'VE BEEN WARNED.

Mammogram... please come back we need to see something

Second mammogram, hi resolution ... they pointed out what looked like little bits of sand. THOSE little bits???

Yep, need a stereotactic biopsy. So they numb me up good, clamp myboob in a vise, then grab a couple of those spots with a suction needle under x-ray guidance.

Sent to the path lab.

Path lab says ... huh????? We need a bigger sample.

So into the OR I go! They took a chunk out the size of a good-sized hamburger (and oh BTW removed a large uterine polyp at the same time) and the path lab apparently came back with "atypical apocrine [sweat] gland". Apparently it was SO unusual the one pathologist passed it to two others just to be sure.)

Yep, got the metal clip as a souvenir.

Next mammo ... Uh, could you come back for a repeat? There's something we need to check.

Oh no! Not again!?!?

Apparently the surgery left me with a fluid-filled pocket (seroma) that looked godawful on mammogram, but was dxd with ultrasound.

I haven't been back since then.

But now that I'm vaccinated I think I need to put my right arm in... take my right armout ...put my left arm in ... and get all nice and cuddly with the machine.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 3:54 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
FWIW JSF, your diagram displayed properly on my PC.
OK, Does the post make sense? The description?
I have edited it since yesterday when I ran out of time.

It was 100% clear the first time. Good description!

;-)

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:36 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I'm still trying to figure out the physics. If you look at a flowing system, the faster the flow (smaller the diameter), the less the sideways pressure. That gives airplane wings their lift, for example. But when the system becomes static (is plugged) all points are pressurized to the same pressure, no matter what the diameter, water being incompressible. OTOH just past the exit of a pipe, the wall pressure is zero, there being no walls. If the wall pressure where the walls are infinitely large(absent) is zero (other things at that point are holding the water together so that it doesn't explode in all directions at the exit of a pipe), then by analogy, the pressure on the walls should be smaller the larger the diameter, and higher the smaller the diameter. But then, if after you expand the pipe you narrow it again, that puts a crimp in the flow, leading it would seem to a pressurization of the bulbous area. I guess maybe the end result is ... is your narrower outlet a critical orifice compared to your inlet(pump)? If so, then your system is pressurized to the same pressure all the way through, even though it's flowing. But if not, and you have a headspace in your wider area, then your system is at atmospheric.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:58 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

I'm still trying to figure out the physics. If you look at a flowing system, the faster the flow (smaller the diameter), the less the sideways pressure. That gives airplane wings their lift, for example. But when the system becomes static (is plugged) all points are pressurized to the same pressure, no matter what the diameter, water being incompressible. OTOH just past the exit of a pipe, the wall pressure is zero, there being no walls. If the wall pressure where the walls are infinitely large(absent) is zero (other things at that point are holding the water together so that it doesn't explode in all directions at the exit of a pipe), then by analogy, the pressure on the walls should be smaller the larger the diameter, and higher the smaller the diameter. But then, if after you expand the pipe you narrow it again, that puts a crimp in the flow, leading it would seem to a pressurization of the bulbous area. I guess maybe the end results is ... is your narrower outlet a critical orifice compared to your inlet(pump)?

Oh, good point!

I think it depends on whether the expanded area fills up with water or not. If there is still some air on the expansion -or, alternately, a vent pipe to release pressure - then the pressure is reduced.

I would ideally want a vent. But assuming there is none, air is a lot more ccompressible than water. So as the volume fills, the air is compressed, dampening the pressure pulses considerably. (I ran a dual-piston pump amino acid analyzer with an inverted test tube half-filled with an air bubble at the pump outlet for exactly that purpose.) But I think a vent stack would be a more certain way of releasing the pressure.

In fact, now that Ithink about it, the water will only drain by gravity if you have a way of re-introducing air, otherwise it's like empyting a large narrow-mouth bottle by turning it upsidedown: you get the glug-glug effect bc you need to draw in air to replace draining water, o'wise you create a vacuum. So, vent a necessity.

But the volume of the expanded area has to be larger than the volume of waterever volume is pumped out with each cycle, I would imagine. O'wise water will come jetting out of the vent.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 1:24 PM

Out for a walk on another I think I need my umbrella day. No rain last night and nothing this morning. So we shall see.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 3:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I had to go to the hardware store to make a few returns and pick up a few other things today, and a 5' length of 1/2" PVC was one of the things I picked up.

5' of 1 1/2" pipe for $7.

Yesterday I noticed at Home Depot 10' of 1 1/2" for under $7.

I also grabbed the parts for this version of the diagram, using only 4" pipe, assembled them and measured. It was 13" from the top of the chamber to the bottom of the 1 1/2" drain pipe (horizontal). The cost for the joints were about $25, and the 4' x 4" was $12, the 10' x 4" was $24.

xx___
x/ _ \
| | | |xxxx_____________________ downturned
| | | |xxx/ Depressurizationxxxx\ elbow
| | | |__/ Chamberxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
| |xx\___xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
| |xxxxxx\xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx| reducer
| |xxxxxxx\______________xxxxxxxxxx|
| |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\xxxxxxxxx|
| |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\_______ \xxxxxx
| |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\ \
| |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\ \
| |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx| | gravityxxxxxx
| |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx| | flowxxxxxxxxxx
| |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx| | drainage
| | Pump
| | Pressurized
| | Water

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 3:33 PM

You 2 seem to have created a conundrum for yourselves. I don't think I should solve it for you, because it would not really help you as much.

I will try to point out a few things. If either of you can then conjure the solution to your conundrum, and then post it, in your own words and perspectives, then I think that would be the most helpful to other casual readers.

Kitchen sink. When your kitchen sink is full, and you pull the drain plug, it might glug glug at the start, but does it glug glug the entire dime it is draining? If you put back the drain plug when the sink is half empty, does the water in the pipe directly under the plug continue to drain? It is practically sealed, right? Can it drain via gravity all the way outside your house?

toilet. When you flush your toilet, the throat is effectively the critical orifice, and the size of the throat combined with the velocity and volume of water being flush fairly define pressure - the output pipe of the toilet has quite some pressure. The main sewer stack - the vertical pipe which is most likely right behind your toilet, it is not full of water most of the time, it is full of air. The water from the flush enters this pipe/chamber at speed (not just gravity flow alone), an then just falls to the bottom of the pipe.

sealed tank. Consider a tank that is as large as the entire well, or even twice as large. It is sealed. The pressurized water from the pump in the well enters near the top of the side of the tank. The drain hole is at the bottom of the tank. Will the pressurized water be prevented from entering the empty tank? The first cupfull of water that arrived at the bottom, it can drain out via gravity, and then this subtracts the total volume of the pump cycle. When the pump stops, and the tank has not gotten full, and water level is not as high as the inlet pipe, will the tank be able to drain? via gravity, or is it under pressure? If the tank inlet is 20 feet higher than the pump, then a 1/4 hp pump will get the water that high, but the pressure up there will be much less than under 20' of water - the pressure is dissipated or consumed by the rise in elevation - will the water be able to flow into the tank? We cannot have a vent on this tank, because it is in fact a septic/sewer tank in 6ix's application.

What restrictions do you see in this tank? If the drain hole is still not empty by the time the next pump cycle bring more water, then I agree the pressure is transferred to some degree. At some point, it becomes a matter of can the tank drain water via gravity as fast as the drainage tile pours water into the well via gravity.
The bottom of the tank drain is the same point, effectively, as the bottom of 6ix's kitchen sink drain pipe, and it never seems to have a problem draining via gravity.

What are your thoughts?

Also, if the inlet pipe from the pump is 1 1/2", and the drain pipe from the chamber/tank is 1 1/2", would the pressure from pump output be reduced? diminished? or exactly the same as the pressure either exiting the pump or entering the chamber? If the pump discharge pipe went vertical 20', dissipating it's pressure, but then turned down and dropped 20', would the pressure be the same, or dissipated?

Do you think it would be better to put in a critical orifice right after the pump discharge? Like, after a few inches of 1 1/2" pipe, we reduce it to 1" pipe, and then maybe - or not - return to 1 1/2" pipe before getting to the chamber/tank? The drain of the tank/chamber would remain 1 1/2" (that is the size of the output pipe).

You said the gallon jug does glug glug. The drain hole we have is 1 1/2", and our max volume is 8 gallons. A 5 gallon water bottle also glug glugs when serving a glass of water. But the pump end of the pipe is not airtight, and neither is the drain end of the pipe.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 4:11 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
You 2 seem to have created a conundrum for yourselves. I don't think I should solve it for you, because it would not really help you as much.

No conundrum, there JSF. We AGREE WITH YOU. If there's a continuous headspace above the water, it's not pressurized.

SHEESH. Some people just can't take yes for an answer.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 5:25 PM

Walk in and appointment for hearing aides tomorrow double confirmed. Now to relax the rest of the day.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 8:26 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
You 2 seem to have created a conundrum for yourselves. I don't think I should solve it for you, because it would not really help you as much.
No conundrum, there JSF. We AGREE WITH YOU. If there's a continuous headspace above the water, it's not pressurized.

SHEESH. Some people just can't take yes for an answer.

Plumbing requirements say that every drain has to have a vent. I think I see a vent there in your diagram, JSF.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 8:27 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Walk in and appointment for hearing aides tomorrow double confirmed. Now to relax the rest of the day.

Good for you!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 8:35 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well, this is how my day went - and how most days go, occupied with the day-to-day and not so much on projects/ progress:

walk the dog
water the vegetable garden (my tomatoes and a few of the zucchini arealready growing some veggies!)
pick half-dozen avocados (those suckers are waaaaay up there!)
make bfast for hubby
make several phone calls: make appts for hubby for eye and dental exam, look into some investment oppties
sweep up the house
help out a little in the garage
weed for a couple of hours
make dinner

Seems like I spend a lot of time keeping on keeping on

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:09 PM

Hey all...

Got home later than expected. Been home for a about 5 hours and I've only heard the pump go off once. Shouldn't be a problem racing to get it done in between cycles since most of the rain seems to have missed us. It was pouring 24/7 down by my bro.

I don't think the pressure thing is as big of a deal as you think it is, JSF.

First, from the photo, you can see that the pipe coming from the pump is PVC that's attached to 2 rubber seals surrounding a check valve, which then goes to a PVC elbow, which then goes to a length of PVC, which then goes to a PVC coupler, all before it hits a metal elbow that goes down to the drain. That's plenty of plastic with weak points and a few rubber seals to break before it even hits metal if it were going to break.

Add to that the 4" PVC clean out that's outside of the pipe. That's room for a LOT of air to get out from the outside if pressure is too high. The only time that would have been a problem is when the city sewer flooded and the water was all the way up that clean out at or above ground level.

Also, when looking down the clean out when the sump is on, you never see full water shooting through the pipes. It's just a steady (but fast) stream of water flowing out the drain until the pump shuts off, then the stream slows down to nothing without any back flow.

If I had to guess what that pipe that the kitchen flows into going left is, I'd guess that it's a stack to the roof.

This system is hardly enclosed and super pressurized. The only place where it was pressurized was between the pump and the check valve. That's why I put the relief hole in there. (And it's also why my first and very expensive pump died from airlock when I didn't put a relief hole there).

Thanks for everyone's input while I was gone. I'll take some time to catch up now.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:35 PM

Quote:
Sigs:

BTW KIKI, I did look up IN state code on sanitary v storm sewers, and it appears that they're combined.

That actually makes a lot of sense, given what I've experienced. Do you still have a link to that?

Quote:
Sigs: Anyway, there might be another issue, and that is the TOTAL VOLUME of water being pumped by the sump pump.

In scrolling back thru the posts, the one piece of info that I couldn't find is the TOTAL DROP IN WATER LEVEL IN THE SUMP from when the pump turns on (at this point, belatedly) and when it turns off,in inches (H). Maybe the info is there and I just can't find it. But for sake of argument, let's say the water level drops 10".

Quote:
JSF: He said it is 7". Half of that is above the top of the pump casing, and half is below the top of the pump casing.

Correct.

Quote:
Sigs: With a diameter of 18.5" (radius of 9.25") the TOTAL VOLUME IN CUBIC INCHES of water emptied per pump cycle would be pi*r^2*H or 85.56* 3.1415* 10= 2,688 cu in or

1.55 cu ft per pump cycle, minimum.

Now, on day 1, SIX says the pump went off 119 times. Thats 185 CUBIC FEET of water being pumped out from around his foundation.

On day 2 it went off 83 times, for 129 cu ft.

on day 3 it went off 68 times for 105 cu ft

So over three days, he pumped approx 420 CUBIC FEET of water out from around his foundation.

THAT'S A LOT OF WATER!

(Again, that's assuming a 10" drop in water levels per pump cycle. If the drop in water level is less than 10" you can proportionate the water volume down. But that doesn't count that fact that water is trickling in at the same time that it's being pumped out, so whatever figure you calculate based on water level drop is a MINIMUM, and is bound to be higher.)

Why is there so much water being pumped out???

SIX discovered one problem: a broken sewer line near the foundation. Water was being dumped out of the sewer line and right back down around his foundation, so it was constantly being pumped out... and infiltrating back down again.

A bad possiblity is that there's another break in the sewer line further from the house, but stll close enough to direct water back to his foundation. Or that the laundry tub/shower is adding to his foundation-water woes. (A wash machine can dump out 30 cu ft of water per cycle).

Yeah. It's a lot of water, but not as much as you've got marked there since it's only 7" and not 10". Plus, you have to consider the backflow between the pump and the check valve that drops back into the well. Not sure how much... 1/2" pipe by maybe 3 or 4 feet.

Quote:
JSF: Almost certainly. But he does not want to hear about it, and only argues about it.

Not arguing. Just saying that unless there's any evidence that this is happening it shouldn't yet even be seriously considered. The only reason I knew the pipe was cracked by the foundation was because it had actually eroded the dirt away when it soaked the ground and leaked back into the pipe over time. I know exactly the path the pipe goes to the street from there, and there is zero evidence of any erosion happening anywhere in that path. There is also zero back flow when the pump stops, and no evidence that the water going out to the street is being blocked anywhere.

Quote:
The pump is at least 4 times more powerful than the maximum power needed, as much as 10 times the max power needed. Unlike supply water plumbing, which must withstand high pressure, sewer lines and pipes are NOT made to withstand pressure, other than backlog pressure - they function on gravity flow all the way to the sewage plant, unless city planned pumps, like New Orleans.

Like I said before, the water flow is fast, but there's no evidence while looking into the clean out that it's highly pressurized. At least at the clean out and beyond it.

That pipe didn't break because of pressure. It broke because the foundation shifted. It also didn't shift 1.5" like you mentioned the other day. It was much more minor shift than 1.5".

I'll see if I can dig up any photos of the cracked pipe before I did anything with it to illustrate that.

Quote:
JSF: The depth levels of the well may be like this:
Effectively, the top rim of the well he reports as the current High Water Mark, where the pump turns on.

Not the top rim of the well. It's slightly lower. When I say "high water mark", it's the dark ring maybe about 1.5" from the top rim.

Quote:
4 1/2" below the rim is the top lip of the 4" inlet tube.

4.5" below the high water mark. Probably 6" below the rim.

Quote:
2 1/2" more, or 7" below the rim, is the current Low Water Mark, where the Pump turns off.

2.5" more, or 8.5" below the rim, is the current Low Water Mark. It is actually probably a little lower than this. The 4" inlet is only about 1" submerged when the well shuts off, but almost immediately gets half full with backflow from the PVC and whatever is coming in from the 4" inlet from outside.

Quote:
1 1/2" more, or 8 1/2" below the rim, is the bottom lip of the inlet pipe.

1.5" more, or 8.5" below the High Water Mark, or 10" below the top rim, is the bottom lip of the inlet pipe.

Quote:
Perhaps another 5" more (or 3", he was unclear), or about 13 1/2" is the current level where the pump starts sucking air.

Yeah. Something like that. Probably closer to 3". I didn't measure that.

Quote:
He indicated that this was about 16", so I don't know where the discrepancy was. Maybe 16" is to the top of the brick that he sat the pump on top of.

Yeah. The brick is higher than the muck covered rocks.

Quote:
He thinks the brick is 2", so the well depth to the stones where the brick sits on top of would be 18" - but he guessed that, or estimated.

Yup.

Got my zip ties yesterday. Already got the scoop and bucket to get the muck and stones out, and the PVC (PVC prices, like wood prices, are regional BTW. Though I might have managed to save 50 cents or so going to one store over the other, the prices are usually fairly constant among them in a specific region.)

I'm going to work on it tomorrow and let you know how it goes at the new depth.

Going to mow the lawn again first though since all of the helicopters fell while I was gone.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:21 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, this is how my day went - and how most days go, occupied with the day-to-day and not so much on projects/ progress:

walk the dog
water the vegetable garden (my tomatoes and a few of the zucchini are already growing some veggies!)
pick half-dozen avocados (those suckers are waaaaay up there!)
make bfast for hubby
make several phone calls: make appts for hubby for eye and dental exam, look into some investment oppties
sweep up the house
help out a little in the garage
weed for a couple of hours
make dinner

Seems like I spend a lot of time keeping on keeping on

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

My day was even less productive, as my days are in general. I have a list of what I call 'daily' chores: I 'bus' the house (pick up everything out of place and put it where it belongs), do any left-over dishes (I try to do them as I go, but when I cook a 12-portion batch of meals there are a lot of pots, pans, cutting boards, colanders, knives, spoons etc that build up), clean up after The Big Guy and make sure his bowls are clean, water and food is fresh etc, take out the trash and recycling, clear out my emails, voice-mails, texts etc, exercise, vacuuming, dusting, and so on. And then I usually do one bigger thing. Today it was going to the bank then to all the stores and buying IN BULK, all my heavy, back-challenging items, and putting everything away. I kid you not, that's about 3 hours. Tonight as I'm listening to the TV, I'll do some minor mending on a couple of items. And I'll do some more internet research for a project of mine that I hope will also be useful for the rest of the family.

I need to make 1 more batch of meals tomorrow, which will take considerable time since cooking in bulk means a LOT of prep work. I'm going to make pork fajitas, and I have the veges figured out down to a T. But the last time I made them - as chicken instead of pork - and it was the first time I'd ever made fajitas - even tho the fajita mix was stellar on the veges, I wasn't happy with it on the chicken. So I'll be marinading the pork in a combination of lime juice, pineapple juice, grated onion, and chili powder. I think it sounds like a pretty good concept, but the devil is in the details, so I'll see how that turns out. That'll leave me with a sinkful of dishes to do, I'm sure! Plus I bought a metric crap-ton of chicken thighs today, and tomorrow I'll portion them out into 2lbs, and freeze them. So tomorrow is daily, plus major cooking and dishes and time spent in the kitchen in general, plus internet research.

Fri is 'daily', other shopping and errands, and weekly laundry.

I HOPE by Saturday I've gotten enough of the bigger stuff out of the way so that I can start to spend about an hour a day on the yard. I figure that's about how much my back will be good for.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2021 11:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Walk in and appointment for hearing aides tomorrow double confirmed. Now to relax the rest of the day.
Good for you!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

Yup and I even managed to start retyping Chapter Five of my book. So, I think I did pretty good for a Wednesday.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, May 20, 2021 2:12 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
KIKI: My day was even less productive, as my days are in general. I have a list of what I call 'daily' chores: I 'bus' the house (pick up everything out of place and put it where it belongs),

You do this every day??? Man, if I tried to "bus" the house it would take me DAYS, and by the time I got to the endI'd have to doit all over again!

Quote:
do any left-over dishes (I try to do them as I go, but when I cook a 12-portion batch of meals there are a lot of pots, pans, cutting boards, colanders, knives, spoons etc that build up),

Oh, there are ALWAYS undone dishes somewhere! If they're not in the sink soaking they're in the drainboards, drying. I wash dishes about every other day, but three people eating one or two meals a day ...that makes a lot of dishes!

Quote:
clean up after The Big Guy and make sure his bowls are clean, water and food is fresh etc,

I guess that's the sameastaking puppywuppy out for her walk: I have to clean u after her do poo

Quote:
take out the trash and recycling,

Dear daughter's job, which I have to nag her to complete

Quote:
clear out my emails

Oh, dear.I have about 300 unread emails in my inbox

Quote:
, voice-mails, texts etc, exercise, vacuuming, dusting, and so on.

Dusting, sweeping,and vacuuming ...happens every other week. I justdid the dustiest parts of the floors bc with spending all my time on other stuff, cleaning got away from me by a week

Quote:
And then I usually do one bigger thing. Today it was going to the bank then to all the stores and buying IN BULK, all my heavy, back-challenging items, and putting everything away. I kid you not, that's about 3 hours. Tonight as I'm listening to the TV, I'll do some minor mending on a couple of items. And I'll do some more internet research for a project of mine that I hope will also be useful for the rest of the family.

Well, all together, you do a LOT! Sounds like you're a lot more on top of things that I am. My end-of-year filing?? Still undone!

Quote:
I need to make 1 more batch of meals tomorrow, which will take considerable time since cooking in bulk means a LOT of prep work. I'm going to make pork fajitas, and I have the veges figured out down to a T. But th

IMHO veggies take a LOT more prep work than meats!

Quote:
last time I made them - as chicken instead of pork - and it was the first time I'd ever made fajitas - even tho the fajita mix was stellar on the veges, I wasn't happy with it on the chicken. So I'll be marinading the pork in a combination of lime juice, pineapple juice, grated onion, and chili powder. I think it sounds like a pretty good concept, but the devil is in the details, so I'll see how that turns out. That'll leave me with a sinkful of dishes to do, I'm sure! Plus I bought a metric crap-ton of chicken thighs today, and tomorrow I'll portion them out into 2lbs, and freeze them. So tomorrow is daily, plus major cooking and dishes and time spent in the kitchen in general, plus internet research.

Fri is 'daily', other shopping and errands, and weekly laundry.

I HOPE by Saturday I've gotten enough of the bigger stuff out of the way so that I can start to spend about an hour a day on the yard. I figure that's about how much my back will be good for.

Wow, I get tired just reading your list! Dear daughter does laundry, and we shop together so she hauls in the groceries and puts them away ... a big help!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:11 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

When it comes to keeping up with the dishes, I have a 2-word extreme motivator: Argentinian ants.

And oh, I don't do the WHOLE house dusting and sweeping every day! I'll pick a rhhheuuum, and do, say, the floor. The next day I'll wipe all the counters. And so on.

But The Big Guy is really happy to scatter his litter everywhere, so he requires a lot of vacuuming-after. And he literally claws my legs for attention many times during the day. Who says cats are aloof? Because he's a cat, and he definitely is not aloof. And when he wants attention, he lets it be known! Sadly, he's figured out that sitting and looking at me, waiting patiently doesn't work. Or quietly rubbing on my legs. Or looking at me while gently pawing a leg with a soft paw. No, I've trained him into understanding that what really, really gets my attention ASAP is when he claws at my legs - with both legs, digging deep, with muscle - exactly the way he does when he's sharpening his claws. He's a smart cat. He figures out what works, and does that.

Oh - the fajita veg prep? Easiest recipe ever! Peel the onions, stem and core the peppers. Then take them and split them top to bottom in half. Then lay the veges cut-side-down and cut them into wide crescent strips by going crosswise through the halves. That's the prep! No fiddly time-consuming dicing or worse, mincing. And I'm working on a recipe for your dd that uses onions, but purees them in a blender. I know she likes the taste of onions but hates the texture. So my latest experiment was my bbq vegetable-filled ground turkey meatloaf with pureed onions. It's JUST about there! I think one more round of adjustments and I'll be happy to pass it along.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, May 20, 2021 10:49 AM

Alright... mowing the lawn now. Probably more helicopters fell while I was gone than all the weeks before. I should be able to get that done before the garbage men come for the cans.

Hopefully the sump should go well. I've only noticed it going off one time since I got back. I should have plenty of time to work on it without worry. I'll have a few buckets down there with me for water just in case.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, May 20, 2021 1:38 PM

Out in a bit for my walk on a bright sunny day and this afternoon new hearing aides. 1pm is appointment. So later peeps.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Hopefully the sump should go well. I've only noticed it going off one time since I got back. I should have plenty of time to work on it without worry. I'll have a few buckets down there with me for water just in case.

Once the Septic well pump High Water Mark gets below the bottom lip of the inlet tube, I would expect a few days before water stops flowing into the well. A week before the soil above the Drainage Tiling gets water filtered off, and a month before the soil lower than the drainage Tile gets hopefully drained out.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Sigs:
A bad possiblity is that there's another break in the sewer line further from the house, but stll close enough to direct water back to his foundation. Or that the laundry tub/shower is adding to his foundation-water woes. (A wash machine can dump out 30 cu ft of water per cycle).

Quote:
JSF: Almost certainly. But he does not want to hear about it, and only argues about it.

Not arguing. Just saying that unless there's any evidence that this is happening it shouldn't yet even be seriously considered. The only reason I knew the pipe was cracked by the foundation was because it had actually eroded the dirt away when it soaked the ground and leaked back into the pipe over time. I know exactly the path the pipe goes to the street from there, and ... no evidence that the water going out to the street is being blocked anywhere.

Got my zip ties yesterday. Already got the scoop and bucket to get the muck and stones out, and the PVC (PVC prices, like wood prices, are regional BTW. Though I might have managed to save 50 cents or so going to one store over the other, the prices are usually fairly constant among them in a specific region.)

I'm going to work on it tomorrow and let you know how it goes at the new depth.

Home Depot website shows that in Indiana, Item # 531111 is $6.89
I suppose that you are in a different region than Indiana.

Some people keep saying that the front sewer pipe goes "out to the street"
A 2" PVC pipe, only 18" below the surface of the yard.

He described last year, during flooding, when the well pump went off, it would push the water in the basement toilet up and over the rim of the bowl. The toilet is connected to the main crap pipe which exits the house under the back wall.
This is like going down to a river of creek and submerging the discharge end of a pump hose into the flowing water (about 8 gallons). Then, 100 feet downstream, another pipe is submerged in the same creek, and whenever the pump upstream discharges, the downstream pipe backs up, and pushes so much backpressure that it forces water at least 2 feet vertically, just by having the discharge pipe in the same creek that the pump discharge is.

Would somebody like to explain that, without handwavium technology?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, May 20, 2021 5:31 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Oh, btw Signy, the reason why I'm so slow is because I need to take frequent 'back breaks'. I need to sit or lie down every few minutes. And, I still have a lot of 'old stuff' to take care of - old papers and old files especially; but I'm still reorganizing my house after I moved out of the rear structure. So I'm working on that bit by bit. My 'daily' list is just to make sure I keep up with the new stuff so it doesn't pile up.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, May 20, 2021 5:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
You 2 seem to have created a conundrum for yourselves. I don't think I should solve it for you, because it would not really help you as much.
No conundrum, there JSF. We AGREE WITH YOU. If there's a continuous headspace above the water, it's not pressurized.

Color me....formerly misunderstanding.

Quote:

Plumbing requirements say that every drain has to have a vent. I think I see a vent there in your diagram, JSF.

I don't have any vents in my house plumbing, other than the main vertical pipe. Any of the houses I've owned.

I did not put any vent in the diagram I made. I do not see any vent in the rudimentary diagram I posted.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, May 20, 2021 5:33 PM

Back and new hearing aides in and on. Volume is right for me. I am leaving them on the rest of the day so my ears get used to them again. Need to protect my right ear as the hearing is juuuust starting to go in it. Recharger plugged in as well. Also got the clip for them and the volume adjuster.

Ice cream for now.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, May 20, 2021 5:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Oh, btw Signy, the reason why I'm so slow is because I need to take frequent 'back breaks'. I need to sit or lie down every few minutes. And, I still have a lot of 'old stuff' to take care of - old papers and old files especially; but I'm still reorganizing my house after I moved out of the rear structure. So I'm working on that bit by bit. My 'daily' list is just to make sure I keep up with the new stuff so it doesn't pile up.

Have you gotten your cat one of those cat gyms? Or cat apartments?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, May 20, 2021 5:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Out in a bit for my walk on a bright sunny day and this afternoon new hearing aides. 1pm is appointment. So later peeps.

Are you in Pacific Time Zone? Mountain Time Zone?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, May 20, 2021 9:49 PM

Don't worry about it anymore JSF. I don't need any help if I'm going to be continually insulted by you. Thanks anyways.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, May 20, 2021 9:58 PM

I dug the well out. Initial height of the top of the paver to the rim of the well was 14.25".

There was a LOT of "muck" down there, and I didn't want to put the pump back in the well without the paver, so I dug down to 23.5" from the rim of the well. The paver is 1.5" thick. So the top of the paver from the rim is now 22" instead of 14.25".

This still wasn't enough to get the pump to start until the 4" diameter inlet was halfway submerged.

After extending the tether float, I used some zip ties to make a few links, with the first one wrapped around the bottom of the pump between the pump and the discharge. The third tie is wrapped around the bottom of the PVC pipe above the discharge. This lowered the action on the float another 3.5" or so.

Now the pump starts about an inch or so before it gets to the 4" inlet pipe.

It only has a 15 second cycle now instead of a 22 second cycle, but that's fine. I didn't want the float to get it so close to the bottom of the well/paver and risk the chance that it doesn't turn off properly.

I ran a few empty loads of laundry just to watch it fill up and go out. One load of laundry set for the largest water setting is just enough to make the pump cycle twice. I never put that much stuff in a load though, so a normal load will make it go off once.

Doing another load now, so when I'm ready I'll get back down there and monitor it.

I'll keep an eye on it for a while, but everything seems to be working as desired now. My next pump isn't going to be a tether, so the zip ties won't be necessary when I get the replacement.

Dirty, dirty, dirty job. Shower felt so good. From start to finish it was about a 3.5 hour job. I had to go to the hardware store at one point in the middle of it, but that was fine since I was still letting as much drain in to pump out before I got started.

Any trickle in now is not noticeable, although I'm sure water is still making its way in slowly. There's just no dripping going on and it will be crawling down the inside of the well below the inlet. I did pump the well 5 times before I took everything apart though, so that was another 15 to 20 inches of water I forced out that wasn't making its way into the well when it was up high before I got started.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, May 20, 2021 11:25 PM