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Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Well, I DID figure out where the dream came from, but I do want to explain a bit more about the restaurant in that mall.

The practice of that restaurant was to have the wait-staff come by and tell you what was really in that hamburger ... or clam soup, or whatever, after you finished and were ready to pay your bill. (BTW, it was a fine-dining restaurant, and there was nothing unhealthy or gross about whatever they used in making their delicious food. The point was that the chefs were able to use spices and their skills at cooking techniques in order to fool you into thinking one kind of food was something else.)

Aside from the occasional well-dressed older couple quietly eating a fine meal together, the restaurant was full of 20something to 30something Koreans in fairly large groups, who would come together to enjoy a sort of 'dining game' - where they would order a whole bunch of different plates and share them around for tastes, and everyone would discuss and opine what they were. And when the wait-staff would tell them what the dishes were, there would be a lot of surprise and laughter all around about the food and their guesses. Not only were they coming to eat, and for excellent cooking, but to play a game with their friends.

Until I started to wake up and the dream started to fragment at the end, it was remarkably vivid and cohesive.



Anyway, the dream partly come from a commercial on TV that I purely loathe. It's for a Samsung phone (I think it's a phone) and there is nothing about that it I don't detest ... from the quick impressionistic glimpses of the phone(?) that aren't enough to let you know why the phone(?) really is different from anything else and therefore special, to the young(er) actors doing 100% pointless things (that are presumably an expression of whimsy) and mugging vapidly for the camera, to the lyrics repeated over and over "I see it I need it I want it" as if it's perfectly normal to have a blank brain up until a the time a commercial probe stimulates brainless reflexive buying.

Yes, we should all aspire to be zombie buyers where 'see want need' is one brainless word ahead of 'buy'.

And I also glanced over a recent article about K-pop culture.



And so, the dream-mall was born, as an expression of people who are brainless consumers in a brainless-consumerist heaven.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
That's a lot of yard work...

Any chance you could find another gardener to work with now? I know you find some enjoyment doing it, but it sounds like it's eating up a lot of your time Sigs.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
That's a lot of yard work...

Any chance you could find another gardener to work with now? I know you find some enjoyment doing it, but it sounds like it's eating up a lot of your time Sigs.

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Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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[
1KIKI:

Well, I DID figure out where the dream came from, but I do want to explain a bit more about the restaurant in that mall

The practice of that restaurant was to have the wait-staff come by and tell you what was really in that hamburger ... or clam soup, or whatever, after you finished and were ready to pay your bill. (BTW, it was a fine-dining restaurant, and there was nothing unhealthy or gross about whatever they used in making their delicious food. The point was that the chefs were able to use spices and their skills at cooking techniques in order to fool you into thinking one kind of food was something else.)

Aside from the occasional well-dressed older couple quietly eating a fine meal together, the restaurant was full of 20something to 30something Koreans in fairly large groups, who would come together to enjoy a sort of 'dining game' - where they would order a whole bunch of different plates and share them around for tastes, and everyone would discuss and opine what they were. And when the wait-staff would tell them what the dishes were, there would be a lot of surprise and laughter all around about the food and their guesses. Not only were they coming to eat, and for excellent cooking, but to play a game with their friends.

Until I started to wake up and the dream started to fragment at the end, it was remarkably vivid and cohesive.



Anyway, the dream partly come from a commercial on TV that I purely loathe. It's for a Samsung phone (I think it's a phone) and there is nothing about that it I don't detest ... from the quick impressionistic glimpses of the phone(?) that aren't enough to let you know why the phone(?) really is different from anything else and therefore special, to the young(er) actors doing 100% pointless things (that are presumably an expression of whimsy) and mugging vapidly for the camera, to the lyrics repeated over and over "I see it I need it I want it" as if it's perfectly normal to have a blank brain up until a the time a commercial probe stimulates brainless reflexive buying.

Yes, we should all aspire to be zombie buyers where 'see want need' is one brainless word ahead of 'buy'.

And I also glanced over a recent article about K-pop culture.



And so, the dream-mall was born, as an expression of people who are brainless consumers in a brainless-consumerist heaven.

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SIX: Did any of them order the Special? The Special is only for special occasions.

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Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
It talks about code, but not what code. An example specifies New Zealand.

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Most from Signy's link https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Plumbing-Vent-Distance-Codes.php reference the 'International Building Code', which according to wiki is rather over-named, as it's mostly for US use. In the US the relevant code used to be the UBC - Uniform Building Code. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Building_Code The International (US) Building Code has since replaced it, according to wiki.

BTW, I didn't see any examples in Signy's link that were related to NZ.

Also, fwiw, from the link

these states adopted the 2009 IPC section of the IBC
Alabama, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Michigan, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia (and others)

while these states adopted the 2006 version
Arizona, Arkansas, District of Columbia, Georgia, New York, South Carolina (and others).


I specifically looked up Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota building codes. Indiana, Illinois, and Minnesota have all adopted various version of the IBC at various times. Wisconsin adopted the IBC but only for new commercial buildings. It suggests the Uniform Dwelling Code (which doesn't appear to have a plumbing section), but each county/ municipality is free to adopt more or less stringent standards. That may be why you're unfamiliar with building codes, requirements, and practices elsewhere.

Indiana https://www.iabo.com/Current-Code
Illinois https://up.codes/codes/illinois
Minnesota https://up.codes/viewer/minnesota/irc-2018/chapter/new_3_2020/minnesot
a-residential-code#new_3_2020
Wisconsin https://www.plananalyst.com/wisconsin-building-and-residential-codes/

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
The pump has gone off two times that I know of since the laundry was finished. Once at around 1:00AM, and again at 9:00AM.

The cycles are now only 15 seconds compared to the 22 seconds before, but that's still a lot of water that wasn't being flushed out before the well was dug.

It's not going to be easy to hear it anymore. First, because it's a lot less noisy than it used to be. The relief valve is lower and not hitting an aluminum sheet I had installed along the end of the well to amplify it. And second because, at least for the next week, I'll have the window A/C on and the very loud fan pushing that cold air downstairs.

I was vaguely able to hear it at 1:00AM over the fan, but if I'm not actively listening for it I'm not going to notice it. I had turned the A/C off around 6:00AM because it got too cold so I had no problems hearing it at 9:00AM.



This is good news. Even after 5 times of forcing it out until the pump sucked air before making the alterations, it's still going off an average of at least 3 times per day, allowing water that never would have been able to make its way into the well get there now.

We're probably somewhere around 30 to 35 additional inches of water that has been removed from the well that was just sitting there before. (Or 34.9 to 40.7 gallons)

Maybe more.






It's nice knowing that as soon as water can get to it, it will be going where it needs to go instead of building up like a dam and making it go places that it shouldn't have been going.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
too tedious to quote

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
That's a lot of yard work...

Any chance you could find another gardener to work with now? I know you find some enjoyment doing it, but it sounds like it's eating up a lot of your time Sigs.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Yes, it's a very high-maintenance property!

I've tried to keep in touch with our former gardener, but he's so PO'd that we laid him off he refuses to answer my texts. The fact that we sold him a perfectly functioning car - smogged and with new AC- worth at least $500 for a buck, giving him what ppl need more than anything in LA which is transportation, apparently didn't get us much goodwill.

But I've seen him do that with other ppl who gave him oppty, getting pissed off and throwing it away, so I guess I don't take it personally. It's his problem, not mine.

A lot of maintenance is weeding, which is why I'm going the chemical route.

But my ultimate plan is to sculpt the front yard, especially the area with the star pine, to accommodate pathways for visual interest and maintenance, and put down a bunch of chipped bark mulch for weed suppression.

I may want to build in hardscape pathways later, but I already have a source for clean topsoil and chipped bark. At least then it won't be such an ongoing time suck and ican make progress there and elsewhere.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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SIX: Did any of them order the Special? The Special is only for special occasions.

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Wow, where do you find these, SIX?? So well done!

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The next numbers you'll want to know:
When a decent rain comes, not just sprinkles, start timing when the rain gets serious.
If you can zip down there and trip the pump real quick, letting it empty is a good starting place for the measurement.
Time how much delay there is from the start of serious rain until the first pump cycle.
Then, how long until the 2nd cycle.
When the rain ends, how long delay until the last cycle (if there is a pump cycle after end of rain).

These will be the numbers you can compare to in the future.

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For the window A/C, do you have a rock with a flat-ish face? If so, place the rock on the spot the A/C drips to, with the flat side facing up and away from the house, about 30" or 45" from level. The velocity from the water drop should splatter it, and in the direction away from the basement wall, maybe on the hasta leaves or grass. This should not affect you drainage volume, it should actually evaporate.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Just plain bread and peanut butter?

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
lol

It hit 90 degrees here today. It's going to be 44 degrees on Friday night.

Freakin' Chicago weather.



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Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I also grabbed the parts for this version of the diagram, using only 4" pipe, assembled them and measured. It was 13" from the top of the chamber to the bottom of the 1 1/2" drain pipe (horizontal). The cost for the joints were about $25, and the 4' x 4" was $12, the 10' x 4" was $24.


xx___
x/ _ \
| | | |xxxx_____________________ downturned
| | | |xxx/ Depressurizationxxxx\ elbow
| | | |__/ Chamberxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
| |xx\___xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
| |xxxxxx\xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx| reducer
| |xxxxxxx\______________xxxxxxxxxx|
| |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\xxxxxxxxx|
| |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\_______ \xxxxxx
| |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\ \
| |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\ \
| |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx| | gravityxxxxxx
| |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx| | flowxxxxxxxxxx
| |xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx| | drainage
| | Pump
| | Pressurized
| | Water

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I guess we had .31" of rain last night and a power outage from a thunderstorm. I slept right through it.

I woke up with my computer shut down and the alarm clock blinking.




Haven't gone down and check the pump yet except from at a distance and seeing there's no water that I can see. That pump's been through plenty of outages before, so I'm not worried about that. Not hearing it go off at all. .31" isn't all that much, and with the new drainage I wouldn't expect it to be a problem.


ETA: Yeah. We got a good washing last night.



Checked down in the well around 10:00AM and it was only about halfway up to where it needs to be to fire off. I've been working iside most of the day so far and haven't heard it go off yet, although I did spend some time outside putting fertilizer on the front lawn.



I still have the two buckets under the kitchen sink, but not a drop down there yet. I'll probably feel safe after a week or two more and finish the floor down there. Probably drill a hole to the crawlspace just to have it to feed a hose out through the kitchen window in an emergency down the line before I cover it up.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Been avoiding the foods I'm allergic to and seem to feel better most of the time. Yesterday I had some ketchup and rice and today may be feeling it in my knees, hips and ankles.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Have you picked up that $17 drill pump yet? Maybe you'll leave that right under the kitchen sink, leaving the hose hanging in the well.

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Do you recall was was the distance the rooter had gone to find resistance, obstruction?

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I stopped by Home Depot today.

On the shelf I saw a nice 1/4 hp sump pump for $100. Good for pushing water 20 feet straight up (vertical). 6ix needs to go up 3 or 4 feet.
Also a nice pedestal pump with 1/3 hp for $90.
And a Drill Pump for $17. Good for water removal, in a bind.




It seems possible that solutions will not be enacted, so I will wrap up with a summary timeline of salient facts. Some errors may exist, but somebody else will need to suss that out. Some of this I did not learn until yesterday.

More than a decade ago, property was purchased.
House had no rain gutters.
Plot was on the verge of Flood Plain, and environs had drainage and low elevation issues, and yet, no rain gutters were installed.
House had no Sump Well or Sump Pump, but instead an open Septic/sewage well, and pump in it. Probably the best term for it would be an Upflush Pump, without macerator. Power rating unknown.
Drainage tile around foundation fed into this Septic well.
4 or 5 prior decades had established complete "settling" of the house.
Basement was prone to flooding, and oft wet and moldy.
And yet, no rain gutters.

At some point before 6 years ago, the Upflush Pump was replaced, again with unknown power rating.
No rain gutters were installed.

About 6 years ago, the submersible Upflush Pump was removed.
In it's place was put an overpowered pump for the purpose of removing water from the top of the dirt floor of the basement.
Since that time, the drainage tile has never again been allowed to drain, until perhaps this past week, when the water level was briefly lowered below the drain tile outlet. If the water in the foundation tiling ever evaporated or leaked down in the dirt below the foundation, it was kept full/flooded by laundry waste water and condensate.
This has maintained a flooded, waterlogged, saturated foundation for 6 years.
No rain gutters were installed.


After 5 years of having a house on a foundation of quicksand, many folk can understand what would happen. Evidence of the building sinking was posted in a picture last year in this thread - not sure which date. With the building having sunk about 1 1/2", the weight of the house was greater that the weight of the dirt lawn in front of the house, so the 2" front sewer pipe had been sheered off, near to the basement wall. The wall side of broken pipe was, IIRC, about 1 1/2" lower than the portion of pipe in the lawn.
This sinking into the ground affects all attached structures. The garage is not affected because it is detached. The structure and internal portions of the house have likely become twisted or torqued.
At that time, no rain gutters were installed.

Last fall, rain gutters were installed.


Currently, after 6 years of keeping the foundation submerged in water, the pump is still set to keep the drainage tile flooded. The proper power rating for this pump is far less than 1/3 hp, but a full 1.0 hp pump is sitting there. A Pedestal style pump would provide the greatest function and well volume, but a submersible is displacing all of the volume capacity of the well below the tile inlet tube.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Been avoiding the foods I'm allergic to and seem to feel better most of the time. Yesterday I had some ketchup and rice and today may be feeling it in my knees, hips and ankles.

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You allergic to ketchup? or tomatoes? or High Fructose Corn Syrup? Have you tired that real ketchup yet? Is the swelling in your joints considered to be RA?

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Have you picked up that $17 drill pump yet? Maybe you'll leave that right under the kitchen sink, leaving the hose hanging in the well.

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No. I missed where you even posted that and didn't even know this was an option. I would have bought it while I was out tonight if I knew about it.

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Losing power. I think you already proved that there is the equivalent of about 20" of water in the drainage tile capacity, when the well gets up to 1 1/2" from the top rim of the well. Plus the 14 1/2" that the well could get up to that point after power outtage. And yousaw how slow the tile water took to get into the well from that point. So you would have some time to get your cordless drill out and pump overfill water out of the well.

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Yeah. If I had an alternate means of putting it out during an emergency and it gets it out quicker than it's coming in, great. All the better if I can use a cordless drill that I currently have four 2 amp hour batteries and two 4 amp hour batteries to power it.

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Your new float setting may have given you an extra advantage that I wasn't thinking of before (I was looking for better solution).
I had previously said I expected to have a 10" range in the well pump cycle, and then dissipate the pressure and volume. And you said that for the past 6 years, you had a 7" range. And now it seems you likely have a 5" range.
10" of well depth would equal about 18 feet of 2" pipe.
7" was making about 14 feet of 2" pipe.
5" makes about 9 feet of water in 2" pipe.

The first 2-3' of pump discharge pipe is 1 1/2", and then it goes into 2" pipe (dissipating a little bit of pressure) - likely 5-6' of pipe before it leaves the crawlspace wall.
So, currently, water under pump pressure goes outside your wall for about 3-4 feet, before the pump stops, stopping pressure buildup, and then the 6-7' of pipe-filled water depressurizes and gravity drains all the way to the sewer line destination.
When the pump cycle was 7", there was about another 5" of exterior front sewer pipe which was full of water, holding and building pressure from the pump. Practically 3 times as much exterior pipe under pressure as there is now.
So that seems an improvement now.

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Nice.

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Do you believe all of the front sewer exterior pipe is PVC?

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No. I don't. If you look at the original images I put up, the pipe leaving the house isn't PVC. It's metal. The only PVC that I know is there for sure is the tube attached to the pump and the check-valve, the check valve up to an elbow, and a short length down to the metal pipe leaving the house. There is also the short length of PVC I added with the two rubber sleeves to fix the cracked pipe outside.

The clean-out is a 4" diameter PVC pipe, but after that I have no idea what the pipe is made of.

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And you believe that tree roots went through 2" PVC pipe, 18" below the surface?

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I have zero idea what that was made of or how deep it is out there.

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And you had it rootered out - a straight shot from your basement wall, without turning any corner?

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Straight shot from the 4" diameter clean-out, which was beyond the PVC/rubber sleeve fix I did.

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Do you recall was was the distance the rooter had gone to find resistance, obstruction?

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No, but I'd guess it had to be somewhere around where the tree that is above it was located. But maybe if I was lucky it was further down by the street and it was from roots of a tree that was down there that was removed before I moved in.

Either way, at least 50 feet.

If you look at the drawing I made of the property, it doesn't go straight out to the street. It goes to the far corner of the street.

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Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I posted this on the 16th. And you quoted me the same day. You were probably thinking about your trip.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't have a diagram to work from, so I hope this is all making sense to you.

Also, in my obervation of many houses, a cellar acts more like a boat and causes that portion of the house to lift, not sink, unless the cellar walls lack integrity and start to crumble.

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Anyway, it sounds like things are heading in the right direction. I sure hope so!

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Well dang. I did the dishes last nite and ended up with a puddle under the sink. But I was too tired to track it down, so I mopped up and called it a night.

This AM I tracked it to a leaky pull-down faucet hose. But then when I got the pulldown hose nearly removed, I discovered that my undersink shut-offs don't shut off. I could try shutting off the whole house, ignore the undersink shutoffs, and try going from there, because I think replacing the hose should be easy enough, assuming there's a compatible replacement. But what the hell. I want legitimate undersink shut-offs. So I'm calling a plumber.

(And thank goodness I have a wet-dry vac!)

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1KIKI: Well dang. I did the dishes last nite and ended up with a puddle under the sink. But I was too tired to track it down, so I mopped up and called it a night.
This AM I tracked it to a leaky pull-down faucet hose. But then when I got the pulldown hose nearly removed, I discovered that my undersink shut-offs don't shut off. I could try shutting off the whole house, ignore the undersink shutoffs, and try going from there, because I think replacing the hose should be easy enough, assuming there's a compatible replacement. But what the hell. I want legitimate undersink shut-offs. So I'm calling a plumber.
(And thank goodness I have a wet-dry vac!)


SIX: Working under the sink isn't fun. Money well spent to pay somebody else to do it if you can afford to.
Yeah. You want good shut off valves for the sink for sure. It's a shame those things are made so poorly half the time.

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Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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