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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
A couple ideas I forgot to mention:

tether bias
I didn't know if I had explained the zip tie option well enough, so I didn't include this part.
It may be better to, for now, let out another 5" of cord through the cord clamp - and then zip tie that cord 5" down the side pf the pump, the zip tie encirling the pump (unless there is something down there to attach to.) The biggest benefit to this is the downward bias of the float range. the bottom of the range will be very easy for the float to hang straight down (and be a precise depth, not much inconsistency). But when full, the cord will be more resistant to bending upward - thus giving you a range bias toward deeper "Pump Off" level.
Because I don't know how stiff your cord is (seems replacement tether floats can be bought separately), it may be a little better to use 2 zip tie points about 4" and 5" from the top of pump, allowing the cord to run 45 degrees diagonally before dropping out of the bottom zip tie. This still makes the drop down float position very easy and reliable, but when the cord is flexing away from the pump it has little danger of extending out to the wall of the well.

And if there is any crap that the float might hang up on, put a thin hard plastic piece on that portion of the pump casing, zip ties around the pump to hold it in place. That plastic: think of those cheap 3-ring binders with flimsy plastic covers. I get those called "shelf liners" or drawer liners, or "disposable cutting boards"

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I'll ask you any questions I have when I'm ready to do it. I think I'll have to print this out and then think about it when I'm down there looking at it.

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I have no idea WHERE you got that idea. My range, with threaded rod, has a stroke of at least a foot. I think it might be 15". The only limitations for threaded rod are the total depth of the well, and the length of threaded rod - and that can easily be replaced with longer. The longer strode/duty cycle, the less stress on your pump/motor. Yours is being overworked at this point, without much to show for it.

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Well you're talking about a 3rd type of pump I haven't seen yet then. The vertical pumps I've seen all have a fixed and very small window. Most will say right on the box the window, and I've only ever seen 5".

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Then there are the unknowns. I had a neighbor who built a garage off the alley on a very, very old property - as old as mine. He wanted to have water facilities in his garage, but when installing the waste lines they discovered that he had no hook-up to the sewer system at all! Unbeknownst to anyone, he had an old septic tank instead.

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Wow. World's biggest septic tank? Or did he just buy the property.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'll look for the hose. connection is easy. the condensate pump usually has a vertical connection sticking up vertically, might look kinda like a barb. this flexi-hose just slides right on, as long as you have the size the fitting is made for. I don't think it is a Legris Fitting, but connects just as easy. removing it is not easy, the one time i tried it. using a dual-barbed fitting from the plumbing dept joins the end of one hose to the next, to infinity.



the hose. i found it on home deot site, but they didn't show a nice cute item number, nor any pricing.

they call it clear vinyl tubing or hose, 3/8" inside diam (but check the fitting size on the pump you'll use). brand names were UDP and hydromaxx. you don't need the reinforced or braided. can you find a price(s)?

supplyhouse.com seems to have it about half the price for 100' - under $14. compared to HD. saw that lowes had it too, and various lengths of 10', 20', 50'.

don't know if this will work:
www.homedepot.com/p/udp-3-8-in-i-d-x-1-2-in-o-d-x-100-ft-clear-

this works for a search:
product number 304185196
then scroll down to "frequently bought together"
they have a bunch of options. can't see if everbilt is cheaper in the 100'.

h

eta: hey, if you get that condensate pump (or use the one you have), run the tubing over to your bathroom, tape it up so it just pours into your toilet, and then hold the condensate pump in your hand, slowly lower it into the sump well surface, when it kicks on just keep holding it just so the water is flowing into the condensate tank, and keep slowly lowering it until it's at the bottom. i really think that would be very easy. a sump pump would be hard to hold, but those condensate pumps can be held like that with one hand while running. I think just don't submerge the thing, the top is where the pump motor is. when no more water is flowing inside that little tank, the pump stops running, so you could set it aside while doing more work.

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Hey, took a while to find, but I found out my sump pump style is called a Pedestal sump pump.
Looks like one called Ecoflo has the rod passing through the top of the switch, like mine.
see if you can look at that and see how easy you can adjust for 24" if your well was that deep.
1/3 hp for $73 I see, and mine works great.
If you do decide to use this type, let me know for some installation tips.
This type does not have the motor submerged, the motor is well above water level.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Hey, thanks for your answers and pix! It helps clear up what's connected to what.

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No, he'd been there a while, as had the people before him and the people before him and the people ... many properties in my neighborhood go back to before indoor plumbing (and before the lots were subdivided into city-sized parcels, it was pretty rural. So you'll see 100+ yr old properties widely scattered, with much post-WWII infill.). And his, like mine, was one of the original very old houses.

First there were the original scattered rural properties. Then came the streets. Then came city water, later city sewer systems. Then came the subdivisions. After that came the alleys, for garage access, since the lots are so narrow and the houses were centered on them, there was no room for driveways along the edge of the properties for access from the street. But that was on a block-by-block basis, since people had to agree to given up some of their property for the alleys. So almost all blocks have alleys, but one doesn't in my immediate neighborhood. Much later sidewalks were installed. But that was also per agreement where owners gave up certain amounts of their property. And since CA law only requires sidewalks on one side of the street, there are many blocks without sidewalks. So the very old neighborhood has undergone many revisions in 100+ years.

At some point the old properties were supposed to be tied into the city sewer system. But they must have excepted that house for some reason. And apparently there were no records from back then. When that owner left or died, the knowledge that the house was still on a septic tank went with him or her. So the city - and everyone else - just assumed that that house, like the other old houses, had been tied in.

And for all I know, mine also doesn't connect to the sewer system! I've never checked. And old houses can be full of surprises.

Anyway, since the guy had been paying a sewer fee all those years, he asked for a refund from the city.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Hey Brenda - yeah, crows can be very ... uhmm ... determined. So can red-wing blackbirds. I used to go out to a horse property near a wilder area and razz the blackbirds to get them to dive-bomb me. But when you're just walking along and a crow starts up - that sounds creepy.

Anyway - have a good night.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Before I go back to lurking on the sump pump - Jack - I'm confused ... does your sump pump drain to an underground perforated pipe after it exits the external wall? Or to your kitchen sink waste line, where you see it flowing when you open up the clean-out?

It sounds like you've only actually seen the sump pump outlet water flowing past your kitchen sink clean-out. So the underground sump pump pipe the sump water goes to after it exits the basement wall is a mystery, and it might actually be connected to your home 'sanitary' waste line near the kitchen sink?




FWIW - most places have 2 sewer systems - a 'sanitary' sewer system, and a 'storm' sewer system. The 'sanitary' sewer system collects water from home utilities and goes to some treatment plant, and then is discharged to some low-lying area. The 'storm' sewer system collects surface 'storm' water and goes directly to some discharge point.

AFAIK there are now no more 'combined' systems in the US, they were all eliminated way back before the 90's.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'll look for the hose. connection is easy. the condensate pump usually has a vertical connection sticking up vertically, might look kinda like a barb. this flexi-hose just slides right on, as long as you have the size the fitting is made for. I don't think it is a Legris Fitting, but connects just as easy. removing it is not easy, the one time i tried it. using a dual-barbed fitting from the plumbing dept joins the end of one hose to the next, to infinity.



the hose. i found it on home deot site, but they didn't show a nice cute item number, nor any pricing.

they call it clear vinyl tubing or hose, 3/8" inside diam (but check the fitting size on the pump you'll use). brand names were UDP and hydromaxx. you don't need the reinforced or braided. can you find a price(s)?

supplyhouse.com seems to have it about half the price for 100' - under $14. compared to HD. saw that lowes had it too, and various lengths of 10', 20', 50'.

don't know if this will work:
www.homedepot.com/p/udp-3-8-in-i-d-x-1-2-in-o-d-x-100-ft-clear-

this works for a search:
product number 304185196
then scroll down to "frequently bought together"
they have a bunch of options. can't see if everbilt is cheaper in the 100'.

h

eta: hey, if you get that condensate pump (or use the one you have), run the tubing over to your bathroom, tape it up so it just pours into your toilet, and then hold the condensate pump in your hand, slowly lower it into the sump well surface, when it kicks on just keep holding it just so the water is flowing into the condensate tank, and keep slowly lowering it until it's at the bottom. i really think that would be very easy. a sump pump would be hard to hold, but those condensate pumps can be held like that with one hand while running. I think just don't submerge the thing, the top is where the pump motor is. when no more water is flowing inside that little tank, the pump stops running, so you could set it aside while doing more work.

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Thanks for that.

Do you know if it's possible to add a hose like this to a submersible sump pump with a coupler?

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If it does rain, I'd probably be getting to a new measurement late at night when I settle in and it will be altered by the new rainfall.

At least I should be able to go out to my garage and see the drains in action.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
6ix,
Draining the sand pit. Consider this, but I don't expect you to do this right away. (make tha float adjustment first, on the sump pump.)

You had said you were going to measure how much higher the sand pit was compared to the meeting of your driveway and street curb. I don't recall seeing the results. You said you had a 6 foot level.

At the edge of the sand pit, dig down a bit - still several inches above the level of the street curb. Dig a trench to almost the curb. The grass/topsoil, just fold it over to the side, like a toupee. Use garden hose to put lots of water near the pit, ensure there is a downward slope of the trench to the curb.
cover an end of that tiling tube with something like cheesecloth, which will allow water to enter the pipe, but not so much sand. Lay that end a little into the sand pit, or up against it - with sand against the cheesecloth, not brick.
Then fill in some dirt, flop the toupee back on. Put the extra dirt against the basement wall of the house, 2 inches thick, and the nearest 2-3' from the wall.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
You'll have to forgive me man, but this is all getting extremely overwhelming for me.

The entirety of my plumbing experience in my entire life is swapping out 5 toilet flush units (only 2 of them were really any good), 2 emergency sump pump replacements (one saw a top of the line cast iron Zoeller fail within a year and a half, the other one has left my house foundation in a swamp for 6 years), and assisting an actual union plumber with rodding out my clean out to learn how to do it myself and to try to get his ass out of here before an hour so I wasn't billed for two.


I've got to take this stuff one thing at a time man. The idea of redirecting all of the plumbing in my house sounds like a bigger nightmare than just lighting the place on fire, buying an RV and just driving down to Mexico and taking my chances.

I'm not trying to shit on your ideas or anything, and I do appreciate you taking all this time and interest, but maybe you can save a word document with all of your ideas as they come to you and we can look into future possibilities to make an improvement here or there after I shore some more immediate things up.

Because right now, fixing Uncle Bob's plumbing fuck ups is about 100,000th place on my list of things to do, right behind voting for Biden* in 2024.




The first thing I have to do is lower that well and the sump action FAR below where it currently is, and then seen how everything reacts to heavy rain storms after that's done along with roof water being properly drained away from the house.

After that, I'd just be happy with having a 2nd place to re-direct that water, possibly out the window, that won't require me to remove the permanent sump pump and would be easy to turn on and snake that hose outside so my basement doesn't flood when the situation would otherwise be entirely out of my control like it was last year.

I'm not exactly hurting for money now, but I'm not made of it either. I don't want to go nuts spending a lot, and I have a feeling that I'm not capable of doing most of what you're suggesting today on my own, for lack of knowledge as well as lack of proper tools, and I have no friends or family who are any more capable of it than I am.

If I'm going to be spending any more money on pros doing something, it's going to be having them put proper windows on the 3 season room first so I can finish it, and eventually installing a real heating unit, since the only on I have is a bullshit model from the 1960's that somehow is still hanging on today.















FYI... My pump didn't make water shoot out of my toilet.

And my pump was never running continuously during that flood either. It ran every 3 or 4 minutes or so, but never constantly.

But when the sump pump went on, the toilet water did rise just enough to spill a bit on the floor. Not much... Just a bit of splashing. But it didn't take me long to figure that out and stop it before it possibly turned into a lot.

But what you were saying got me thinking a bit about things.

It's really amazing that my basement didn't just entirely flood when the city sewer backed up. The toilet water did fill to the brim on its own, but I was fortunate enough that it never seemed to get any higher than that after I turned off the pump.


But how the hell wasn't I taking in a ton of water in the front???

The water level was so high in the pipe to the street that it pushed up at least ground level up the clean-out when I pulled the cover off of it. As we've already established, that pipe is at least 1.5 feet under ground. And it was full. How was that water not pouring into my crawl space like niagra falls?

A tiny-tiny little Flotec check valve couldn't possibly retain that type of water.

The only water that was building in the crawlspace was what had been coming in the 4" inlet in the well and not getting pumped out after the pump was turned off.

I have no fucking clue what happened last year now and no explanation for why it didn't turn out to be a much bigger nightmare than it already was.


And now I'm thinking it would be a good idea to have a third pump I could throw into the toilet and pump out the bathroom window. I might not be so lucky next time.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
6ix,
Draining the sand pit. Consider this, but I don't expect you to do this right away. (make tha float adjustment first, on the sump pump.)

You had said you were going to measure how much higher the sand pit was compared to the meeting of your driveway and street curb. I don't recall seeing the results. You said you had a 6 foot level.

At the edge of the sand pit, dig down a bit - still several inches above the level of the street curb. Dig a trench to almost the curb. The grass/topsoil, just fold it over to the side, like a toupee. Use garden hose to put lots of water near the pit, ensure there is a downward slope of the trench to the curb.
cover an end of that tiling tube with something like cheesecloth, which will allow water to enter the pipe, but not so much sand. Lay that end a little into the sand pit, or up against it - with sand against the cheesecloth, not brick.
Then fill in some dirt, flop the toupee back on. Put the extra dirt against the basement wall of the house, 2 inches thick, and the nearest 2-3' from the wall.

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Can't do it. It's not a perforated pipe. Solid. It won't leech in or out any water.

The sand is very low compared tot he driveway. I had to shim the hell out of the drainage tube from the back of the porch/shed with cinderblock pavers just to get it to the driveway without it sitting a lot lower than the driveway.

And because of the settling of that cracked porch slab, the vinyl siding isn't but 1 to 2" higher than the sand. What I'm saying is, the point where the driveway slopes down to the street is higher than my porch slab is.

--------------------------------------------------

Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
6ix,
Draining the sand pit. Consider this, but I don't expect you to do this right away. (make tha float adjustment first, on the sump pump.)

You had said you were going to measure how much higher the sand pit was compared to the meeting of your driveway and street curb. I don't recall seeing the results. You said you had a 6 foot level.

At the edge of the sand pit, dig down a bit - still several inches above the level of the street curb. Dig a trench to almost the curb. The grass/topsoil, just fold it over to the side, like a toupee. Use garden hose to put lots of water near the pit, ensure there is a downward slope of the trench to the curb.
cover an end of that tiling tube with something like cheesecloth, which will allow water to enter the pipe, but not so much sand. Lay that end a little into the sand pit, or up against it - with sand against the cheesecloth, not brick.
Then fill in some dirt, flop the toupee back on. Put the extra dirt against the basement wall of the house, 2 inches thick, and the nearest 2-3' from the wall.

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Can't do it. It's not a perforated pipe. Solid. It won't leech in or out any water.

The sand is very low compared tot he driveway. I had to shim the hell out of the drainage tube from the back of the porch/shed with cinderblock pavers just to get it to the driveway without it sitting a lot lower than the driveway.

And because of the settling of that cracked porch slab, the vinyl siding isn't but 1 to 2" higher than the sand. What I'm saying is, the point where the driveway slopes down to the street is higher than my porch slab is.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'm fair certain I know what is going on and how to fix it, but I cannot force you to do anything.

"Plumbing" primarily refers to fresh water supply, hot water heater, and the pipes of a hot water heating system.
Gravity flow drain pipes are the easiest thing that plumbers do. This is shower, sink, toilet, laundry, floor drains. Uncle Bob screwed up plenty, but it is not insurmountable. PVC pipe at the store is usually not expensive - particularly the long tubes. They can connect with glue, like contact cement. If we got to that point, I would help explain what to do.
But I cannot see WHERE to make things work. That is what I need you to tell me.


My priorities for you, at this point, would be:
Get the pump down on the bottom of the well - if you can find the bottom.
Adjust the float, to get the water much lower, closer to the bottom.
Set it to turn on when the surface touches the bottom of the inlet tube.

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What is the hp of the pump you have now?

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Next time you are there when it's raining, ot you wet the grass, take your leaf rake out there.
Parallel to the curb of the side street, start raking about 3' from the curb. stay 5' away from the driveway. Continue that path for 10 or 20', staying parallel to the curb. if some grass gets pulled up, or thinned out, that is OK. don't do too much, where it is just dirt/mud left.
Give it a week or 2 to regain growth, then repeat. Make this your own private retention pond. It will evaporate quickly enough. But when it is lower than your porch slab, then water will drain to the lower spot.

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Is the ground behind your garage, opposite the garage door, lower than the sand pit?

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Ok, 6ix.

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I'll tell you the sump time that I want to know: Go down to it, activate it until it almost sucks air, then wait 5 or 10 minutes - or until the water stops pouring into it from the inlet tube.
Then activate the pump again, until it just starts to suck air.
Then start the timer - how long before the pump runs again? That is the time I want to know.

...you want to record more data, here is what I would want:
After that 2nd manual activation, what is the surface level in the well after 1 minute? You can measure from the rim.
Then, what is the level after 2 minutes following the sucking air.
Then, what is the level after 5 minutes total?
After 10 min total?
after 15 min total?
If your adjustments have not been changed, then we already covered the rest if the info I want.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'm fair certain I know what is going on and how to fix it, but I cannot force you to do anything.


I cannot see WHERE to make things work. That is what I need you to tell me.


My priorities for you, at this point, would be:
Get the pump down on the bottom of the well - if you can find the bottom.
Adjust the float, to get the water much lower, closer to the bottom.
Set it to turn on when the surface touches the bottom of the inlet tube.

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That's where I'm at right now too.

Getting that sump/well right is my top priority right now.



Getting plumbing from the kitchen to the back would be almost impossible without some sort of pump action because of the layout of the house. I couldn't just go under the crawl and then magically make it shoot into the crap tube without going directly through the laundry room and hallway.

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What is the hp of the pump you have now?

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1HP.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'm fair certain I know what is going on and how to fix it, but I cannot force you to do anything.


I cannot see WHERE to make things work. That is what I need you to tell me.

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Getting plumbing from the kitchen to the back would be almost impossible without some sort of pump action because of the layout of the house. I couldn't just go under the crawl and then magically make it shoot into the crap tube without going directly through the laundry room and hallway.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
If my sump is putting out 8 gallons every time it runs,

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Any ideas, JSF?

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'm fair certain I know what is going on and how to fix it, but I cannot force you to do anything.


I cannot see WHERE to make things work. That is what I need you to tell me.

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Getting plumbing from the kitchen to the back would be almost impossible without some sort of pump action because of the layout of the house. I couldn't just go under the crawl and then magically make it shoot into the crap tube without going directly through the laundry room and hallway.

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NOW you are starting to catch on.

From kitchen to CEILING of finished basement.

I have tried asking you, in several different ways, but without much luck.

A pump would push the water to there. You could use a newer well, near the connecting door to the dirt floor. even a surface well, like a big bucket, or even a kiddie pool. you could even use a 2" hose, but that would be more expensive.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
It is becoming clear that your are not listening to my advice. Which was my concern from the start.
I might repeat myself a little more.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
If my sump is putting out 8 gallons every time it runs,

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no, 7 gallons.

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Any ideas, JSF?

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In your big back yard, the large part both behind your house and the backside of your garage - is it all flat? Is any part of it lower than your garage slab and sand pit?
I thought you said your back door neighbor was lower than you, he's in flood zone?

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I stopped by Home Depot today.

On the shelf I saw a nice 1/4 hp sump pump for $100. Good for pushing water 20 feet straight up (vertical). 6ix needs to go up 3 or 4 feet.
Also a nice pedestal pump with 1/3 hp for $90.
And a Drill Pump for $17. Good for water removal, in a bind.




It seems possible that solutions will not be enacted, so I will wrap up with a summary timeline of salient facts. Some errors may exist, but somebody else will need to suss that out. Some of this I did not learn until yesterday.

More than a decade ago, property was purchased.
House had no rain gutters.
Plot was on the verge of Flood Plain, and environs had drainage and low elevation issues, and yet, no rain gutters were installed.
House had no Sump Well or Sump Pump, but instead an open Septic/sewage well, and pump in it. Probably the best term for it would be an Upflush Pump, without macerator. Power rating unknown.
Drainage tile around foundation fed into this Septic well.
4 or 5 prior decades had established complete "settling" of the house.
Basement was prone to flooding, and oft wet and moldy.
And yet, no rain gutters.

At some point before 6 years ago, the Upflush Pump was replaced, again with unknown power rating.
No rain gutters were installed.

About 6 years ago, the submersible Upflush Pump was removed.
In it's place was put an overpowered pump for the purpose of removing water from the top of the dirt floor of the basement.
Since that time, the drainage tile has never again been allowed to drain, until perhaps this past week, when the water level was briefly lowered below the drain tile outlet. If the water in the foundation tiling ever evaporated or leaked down in the dirt below the foundation, it was kept full/flooded by laundry waste water and condensate.
This has maintained a flooded, waterlogged, saturated foundation for 6 years.
No rain gutters were installed.


After 5 years of having a house on a foundation of quicksand, many folk can understand what would happen. Evidence of the building sinking was posted in a picture last year in this thread - not sure which date. With the building having sunk about 1 1/2", the weight of the house was greater that the weight of the dirt lawn in front of the house, so the 2" front sewer pipe had been sheered off, near to the basement wall. The wall side of broken pipe was, IIRC, about 1 1/2" lower than the portion of pipe in the lawn.
This sinking into the ground affects all attached structures. The garage is not affected because it is detached. The structure and internal portions of the house have likely become twisted or torqued.
At that time, no rain gutters were installed.

Last fall, rain gutters were installed.


Currently, after 6 years of keeping the foundation submerged in water, the pump is still set to keep the drainage tile flooded. The proper power rating for this pump is far less than 1/3 hp, but a full 1.0 hp pump is sitting there. A Pedestal style pump would provide the greatest function and well volume, but a submersible is displacing all of the volume capacity of the well below the tile inlet tube.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Any ideas, JSF?

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In your big back yard, the large part both behind your house and the backside of your garage - is it all flat? Is any part of it lower than your garage slab and sand pit?
I thought you said your back door neighbor was lower than you, he's in flood zone?

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Back is dry.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'm fair certain I know what is going on and how to fix it, but I cannot force you to do anything.


I cannot see WHERE to make things work. That is what I need you to tell me.

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Getting plumbing from the kitchen to the back would be almost impossible without some sort of pump action because of the layout of the house. I couldn't just go under the crawl and then magically make it shoot into the crap tube without going directly through the laundry room and hallway.

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NOW you are starting to catch on.

From kitchen to CEILING of finished basement.

I have tried asking you, in several different ways, but without much luck.

A pump would push the water to there. You could use a newer well, near the connecting door to the dirt floor. even a surface well, like a big bucket, or even a kiddie pool. you could even use a 2" hose, but that would be more expensive.

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Can't do it.

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I'm assuming this is why there are two drains out of the house. One in front, and one in back.

I don't know if the sump well originally went out into the street or they tapped into it instead of dumping it on the lawn outside. Could be either. That drain out to the street might have just been for the kitchen sink originally.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Any ideas, JSF?

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In your big back yard, the large part both behind your house and the backside of your garage - is it all flat? Is any part of it lower than your garage slab and sand pit?
I thought you said your back door neighbor was lower than you, he's in flood zone?

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Back is dry.

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So what?
What is the elevation? in the middle of your back yard, or even on the far property line, is the yard higher or lower than the grasas near your garage?

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'm fair certain I know what is going on and how to fix it, but I cannot force you to do anything.


I cannot see WHERE to make things work. That is what I need you to tell me.

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Getting plumbing from the kitchen to the back would be almost impossible without some sort of pump action because of the layout of the house. I couldn't just go under the crawl and then magically make it shoot into the crap tube without going directly through the laundry room and hallway.

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NOW you are starting to catch on.

From kitchen to CEILING of finished basement.

I have tried asking you, in several different ways, but without much luck.

A pump would push the water to there. You could use a newer well, near the connecting door to the dirt floor. even a surface well, like a big bucket, or even a kiddie pool. you could even use a 2" hose, but that would be more expensive.

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Can't do it.

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???
Perhaps I spoke too soon.
For one reply there, it seemed that you were starting to catch on.
But now it seems you have lost your understanding.

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It's a tri-level.

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I got that.

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The ceiling of the finished basement is the floor of the 2nd floor (level 2.0). The kitchen is on the first floor (level 1.5). The sink drain drain itself isn't even as high as the basement ceiling.

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I thought we already agreed on all that.

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Even if it were, there would be no way to wrap it through walls all over the place to eventually end up in the crapper drain. The kitchen door (back door) would block it one way, and the living room door (front door) would block it the other way.

It would have to go straight through livable space in the basement (level 1.0), so you'd either be crawling under it or jumping over it to get from room to room down there.

I'm assuming this is why there are two drains out of the house. One in front, and one in back.

I don't know if the sump well originally went out into the street or they tapped into it instead of dumping it on the lawn outside. Could be either. That drain out to the street might have just been for the kitchen sink originally.

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Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Any ideas, JSF?

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In your big back yard, the large part both behind your house and the backside of your garage - is it all flat? Is any part of it lower than your garage slab and sand pit?
I thought you said your back door neighbor was lower than you, he's in flood zone?

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Back is dry.

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So what?
What is the elevation? in the middle of your back yard, or even on the far property line, is the yard higher or lower than the grasas near your garage?

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We've been over that already.

Back of the house is higher than the middle of the yard is higher than the back neighbor's yard.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Jesus Christ...

I'M UNCLE BOB!!!! :(

This has been my problem with the house the last few years. I'm almost certain of it now.

I was doing some paperwork, waiting for the pump to go off for a time. When that was done, I washed the dishes. When that was done, packed my bags, when that was done, I rolled my smokes for the trip. When that was done, I folded 2 loads of laundry I'd done.

At this point I realized that it had been over 3 hours and 5 minutes since the last time the pump went off (I had gone down there ever so briefly after 2 hours to make sure I hadn't somehow missed a cycle and it was about 2 inches from the high water mark.



At 3 hours and 5 minutes, it was still about an inch lower than the high water mark. Who knows how long the next cycle would have taken. Another hour? 2 hours? 6 hours? Half a day? More?




Long story short, I have a 20 minute video I'm going to have to evaluate for times. I wasn't planning on being down there that long and I was in my boxers, so I'm hurting now because there was no way I was going to pop a squat in my undies.


But here's the basics...

I forced the pump to go off and held it until the unit was sucking in air. Once it got to about 1.5" above the inside wall of the bottom of the 4" inlet, water started RUSHING in as it continued to go down, but then slowed a bit. It didn't take long for that well to get back up to the bottom of the inside diameter.

I then forced the pump on again until it started sucking air. Water was still coming in this time, but rather than rushing it was just coming in fast enough where it was still forcing itself inward to teh center of the well. I let that fill up again to the inside diameter.

I forced the pump on till it sucked air a third time. Water still coming in, but now the trickle was slow enough that instead of forcing its way inward to the center of the well, the flow was low enough where it was falling back toward the wall of the well instead. Despite my crouching position, I waited about 8 or 9 minutes until it was at the inside diameter again.

I forced the pump on a 4th time until it sucked air.

It may or may not have been slower than the 3rd time. Probably? But I wasn't going to wait around in that position again.



All that water wanted to come in, but couldn't.



It's probably about 3", maybe 4" from the pump sucking in air to the bottom of the inside diameter of the pipe. In less than 20 minutes, I removed a further 9 to 12" of water, when it might have taken hours or even a day to let the 1 final inch in the well necessary to make that pump go off again.



All of that water, for years now, remaining along the foundation of the house and not allowing the ground water to seep into the well. Every time I did the laundry, I was adding more water outside.


Fuck me.




Anyhow... It's obvious you're not a fan of my process JSF, but I do want to thank you so far for all that you've done. It's been a lot of help to me to bounce ideas off of somebody and stay on point.


First thing I'm doing when I get back is digging that well out and getting that pump low enough that it never even touches the drain. After that, we can discuss the pros and cons to different sump types and what HP I should have.

Thanks again.



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Give me liberty or just come shoot me in my house. I'm so over this ridiculous reality.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
The water in the well is higher than the french drain.

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